The golden 10 games

[LCFCEaves31]

So... just been sacked again. Third save now, where I have yet to make it through 1 whole season. The same thing seems to keep happening...

After 10 games, I am maybe undefeated or maybe just 1 defeat. Then we lose 1... well, we don't then just lose 1, we lose 6,7 or even 8 on the bounce. I then get sacked.

Load up another save, exactly the same thing happens again.

If this is a common theme in this years version, how the hell do you get around it? Some friends have told me to 'ride it out' with your tactic, they'll come good again. Some have said 'yeah the AI will work you out, so you've got to chance system'. Seriously? I have to change system? I know a lot of teams in real life who have gone a whole season playing the same system and have been very successful. They don't lose one game and then just go completely to pot!

I know one question I will get asked straight away... how'd you manage moral? up until the 4th defeat on the bounce, the players still had good (on average) confidence. I held a team meeting after the 3rd defeat to just tell them to keep their heads up etc. Got a very positive response (it seemed) but after 2 minutes of the next game, a cross comes in, bang 1-0. I end up losing 4-1 to a team with 10 men for most of the second half and they were in the bottom 6... we were at this point in the top 6.

How can everything just go so drastically wrong? The main thing I started noticing is all of sudden we were conceding loads of goals from set pieces and crossed. I don't think we had conceded from a single corner until then. There is also of course the 30 yard screamers going in all of sudden, which really helps when you are down on your luck.

There has to be other players getting this, surely? Or have experienced very similar... I am finding it difficult to find the will to load up another game if this is all that is going to happen each time.

[herne79]

2 hours ago, LCFCEaves31 said:

Some have said 'yeah the AI will work you out, so you've got to chance system'

That's completely untrue on every level, so don't worry about that one.

It could be any number of things happening such as: not adapting enough to different opponents and/or during matches; player complacency/morale/over confidence; tactical choices; injuries/suspensions to key players; the opposition changing how they play as you become more successful; some/all of the above.

However, it's impossible to offer specific advice without knowing how you are playing.  Probably a good starting point would be for you to head over to the Tactics forum, read the Asking for Help sticky and open a new thread there.

[Dagenham_Dave]

3 hours ago, LCFCEaves31 said:

So... just been sacked again. Third save now, where I have yet to make it through 1 whole season. The same thing seems to keep happening...

 

What a lot of people miss out on is how they set the game up at the start can go a long way to determining how things go during the first season. For example, if you take a job at a top English Premier League club but start with a Sunday League rep, then the game can be incredibly difficult. Once you're on a losing run, the players very quickly lose all confidence in you. It's really important to balance this out before you start. Also, be careful of the promises you make pre-season (a lot of people fall into this trap just to get more transfer money etc). None of this might apply to your saves, and although your issues will fundamentally be tactical, there could be other factors. To be sacked in the first season on FM is quite rare. It's only ever happened to me once (Wigan on FM14), and I'm generally rubbish at the game. 

[LCFCEaves31]

5 hours ago, Dagenham_Dave said:

What a lot of people miss out on is how they set the game up at the start can go a long way to determining how things go during the first season. For example, if you take a job at a top English Premier League club but start with a Sunday League rep, then the game can be incredibly difficult. Once you're on a losing run, the players very quickly lose all confidence in you. It's really important to balance this out before you start. Also, be careful of the promises you make pre-season (a lot of people fall into this trap just to get more transfer money etc). None of this might apply to your saves, and although your issues will fundamentally be tactical, there could be other factors. To be sacked in the first season on FM is quite rare. It's only ever happened to me once (Wigan on FM14), and I'm generally rubbish at the game. 

I'm set up as professional ex player, think I'm known nationally... and my last save was at Cambridge. I hate starting at the top, but I've never struggled like this before. Granted on previous FM's I've had the odd tough save but never three in a row.

just frustrating that after the 2nd one, I put so much time and effort into researching the tactical aspect, and it seemed to be paying off. I was 5th in the league and needed to finish in the playoffs. Then I loaded it up last night and lost every game... within 2 hours I was sacked! What I was watching was completely different to what had been happening previously. 

Anyway, on a tactical point of view, what I'd done was working. Again that's what I can't understand. 

[sipsi]

Most of the time I'm playing with a team at most 3 seasons. I noticed that whenever I catch an "early form"(this is what managers call this IRL) after some time this bad form was coming. It's like a statistic. For instance you have a striker who scores like 12-13 goals per season in his career, or a winger who makes like 15 assists every season. So when I catch an early form and a good winning streak in some point these players are injured and somehow at the end of the season when I check these players the one who scored their average 13 goals or 15 asists are just where when I left them(not always but I hope you got the potential idea, forgive my poor english).

On the other hand I'm not talking about a ME conspiracy here. What I do to prevent this is a "not that meaningful rotation, or some little changes-zig zag". IRL teams catch a form and keep it that way with the exact setup maybe whole season. But I never succeded this way. So I stopped worrying and loved the bombs:) I rarely have a top scorer or the top assister at the end of the season but all my players gain experience, score and assist and in total I just reach where I want. I even change my goalkeepers it's like it's keeping all the players finger on the trigger. Match training for set pieces etc.

Ofc I'm not saying this is the way or this makes sense because there must be people out there playing with the exact same tactic and players whole season. But I never succeded without weird rotation, teamtalks tricks, precautions or match training. Little nuances are making the trick for me.

I've been playing consistently since 97-98 and played older versions also. Not an expert just some experience. But I must say there are these strange days not more than I've seen IRL.

[LCFCEaves31]

11 minutes ago, sipsi said:

Most of the time I'm playing with a team at most 3 seasons. I noticed that whenever I catch an "early form"(this is what managers call this IRL) after some time this bad form was coming. It's like a statistic. For instance you have a striker who scores like 12-13 goals per season in his career, or a winger who makes like 15 assists every season. So when I catch an early form and a good winning streak in some point these players are injured and somehow at the end of the season when I check these players the one who scored their average 13 goals or 15 asists are just where when I left them(not always but I hope you got the potential idea, forgive my poor english).

On the other hand I'm not talking about a ME conspiracy here. What I do to prevent this is a "not that meaningful rotation, or some little changes-zig zag". IRL teams catch a form and keep it that way with the exact setup maybe whole season. But I never succeded this way. So I stopped worrying and loved the bombs:) I rarely have a top scorer or the top assister at the end of the season but all my players gain experience, score and assist and in total I just reach where I want. I even change my goalkeepers it's like it's keeping all the players finger on the trigger. Match training for set pieces etc.

Ofc I'm not saying this is the way or this makes sense because there must be people out there playing with the exact same tactic and players whole season. But I never succeded without weird rotation, teamtalks tricks, precautions or match training. Little nuances are making the trick for me.

I've been playing consistently since 97-98 and played older versions also. Not an expert just some experience. But I must say there are these strange days not more than I've seen IRL.

I came into FM around the 09 version I think... and I have had 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, and 15 and never had this same consistent issue, so whether they choose to admit it or not, something has been changed to counteract you, to make sure that you don't get too comfortable. I get that, and can see why people feel something like this was needed who have found it too easy in the past, but not all of us have hours to trawl through data and analyse post match like a real life manager... (cue the 'try FM Touch' speech). No, I paid for the full version, I want to enjoy the full version, but that doesn't look like ever happening. 

Since FM15 there have obviously been gradual amendments in 16 that I missed and again in 17. If anyone can rack their brains and think of something you've had to change from previous (like your above comment of rotation) that helps with this good early form, that then blows up in your face for no apparent reason, then please let me know. 

Long time fan of FM, seriously struggling. I keep saying to myself, just give up, you're no longer worthy of playing it, you must be an FM expert nowadays... 

And to answer an earlier post, I actually posted my tactics in an existing post I had but received no response... It was just a screen shot of the formation and tactics etc. plus a moan about how crap I am at this!

[herne79]

5 minutes ago, LCFCEaves31 said:

And to answer an earlier post, I actually posted my tactics in an existing post I had but received no response... It was just a screen shot of the formation and tactics etc. plus a moan about how crap I am at this!

And yet you opened a thread that had 60 replies with many words of advice from a variety of people. https://community.sigames.com/topic/395815-fm15-to-fm17-struggles/

So you had all that advice and then what did you do?  Gave up on it, changed teams, formation and your tactical system.  Why would people continue to offer you advice when you have basically taken everything they had previously told you and binned it? 

What did you learn from that previous advice?  How have you implemented it into your new save?  How have you let people know that's what you did (if you did it)?

You've had plenty of advice.  Don't say you received no response.

[dieu]

32 minutes ago, LCFCEaves31 said:

Since FM15 there have obviously been gradual amendments in 16 that I missed and again in 17. If anyone can rack their brains and think of something you've had to change from previous (like your above comment of rotation) that helps with this good early form, that then blows up in your face for no apparent reason, then please let me know. 

I think you hit the nail on the head there. I would very much like to know your tactic now, because 16 introdused a much more realistic match engine where playing with a high D-line leaves you a lot more vulnerable at the back because the AI is better at counter attacking and exploiting the space behind you. 

[dieu]

Do you use the same tactic in this save as the one that Herne linked to?

[LCFCEaves31]

 

8 minutes ago, herne79 said:

And yet you opened a thread that had 60 replies with many words of advice from a variety of people. https://community.sigames.com/topic/395815-fm15-to-fm17-struggles/

So you had all that advice and then what did you do?  Gave up on it, changed teams, formation and your tactical system.  Why would people continue to offer you advice when you have basically taken everything they had previously told you and binned it? 

What did you learn from that previous advice?  How have you implemented it into your new save?  How have you let people know that's what you did (if you did it)?

You've had plenty of advice.  Don't say you received no response.

As mentioned above, I tried applying loads of the information given to me. And I didn't just give up, I was sacked, if you chose to read the whole thread rather than jumping the gun. 

And the very last image in that thread that I posted, received no response, not at any point in what I put did I say I have never received any responses. 

5 minutes ago, dieu said:

Do you use the same tactic in this save as the one that Herne linked to?

Yep, last image. I thought I had found something with a good balance, but I am concerned I am applying FM14/FM15 tactical logic to the new game, hence why I am not getting very far.

12 minutes ago, dieu said:

I think you hit the nail on the head there. I would very much like to know your tactic now, because 16 introdused a much more realistic match engine where playing with a high D-line leaves you a lot more vulnerable at the back because the AI is better at counter attacking and exploiting the space behind you now.  

I actually played counter and standard most the time, because in my first save I was getting caught out on the counter attack a hell of lot, compared with recent FM's. Counter attacking seems to have been given an upgrade, which I think is the result of my own teams success last season (Leicester...not so much this, but lets not talk about that...).

[sipsi]

11 minutes ago, dieu said:

Since FM15 there have obviously been gradual amendments in 16 that I missed and again in 17. If anyone can rack their brains and think of something you've had to change from previous (like your above comment of rotation) that helps with this good early form, that then blows up in your face for no apparent reason, then please let me know. 

Good point. I also find what I do meaningless, even it works. I find myself trying to predict the future. Like -My central defender and Striker is on a great form and I would rather change them and go counter attack against the 18. team in league a home match. This is ridicuolous but whenever I try to go a 5-0 match with best possible squad in form against a low table team my central defender gets the first red card or my striker misses 2 penaties

But I must say I love the game like this(mazochistically maybe:-). On the other hand I have to say that I didn't play with low level teams for some underdogs challenge this year(which I believe is the real fun). With a weaker team and low possibilities this can drive a person mad. And there is no nice logic I could find in a situation like that.

[dieu]

Have you tried going with a more fluid team shape? I ask because there is a few advantages with fluid that could help you both in defence and attack. 

• A fluid/very fluid shape reduces the space between your defence and attack by giving your attackers a lower mentality then what a structured approach would (They contribute more to defence.) 
• It also gives your defence a higher mentality so they push higher up the field. The result is that your team is more compact and there is less space for the opponent to exploit between your lines.
• It gives your players more creative freedom to step out of your tactical plan and be creative. 

 

I struggled with creating a structured tactic in FM17 and tried to experiment with shape because my initial tactic wasn't working as well as I had hoped. 

What I came up with was something that seems to be very solid at the back while at the same time gives my players the creative freedom to express themselves and be creative. 

 

Here is my setup:

 

[LCFCEaves31]

13 minutes ago, sipsi said:

Good point. I also find what I do meaningless, even it works. I find myself trying to predict the future. Like -My central defender and Striker is on a great form and I would rather change them and go counter attack against the 18. team in league a home match. This is ridicuolous but whenever I try to go a 5-0 match with best possible squad in form against a low table team my central defender gets the first red card or my striker misses 2 penaties

But I must say I love the game like this(mazochistically maybe:-). On the other hand I have to say that I didn't play with low level teams for some underdogs challenge this year(which I believe is the real fun). With a weaker team and low possibilities this can drive a person mad. And there is no nice logic I could find in a situation like that.

That I accept, it's football, there needs to be these freak/random events otherwise it does become boring for everyone. The issue I'm having is the sudden implosion of form and morale and just general complete lack of any football adherence to the tactic... when it started so well. Even during my good spell, yes we would draw and lose the odd game but we were playing well. I stuck at it, we started to show more and more consistency, but then bang... out if nowhere, it goes wrong. 

[LCFCEaves31]

2 minutes ago, dieu said:

Have you tried going with a more fluid team shape? I ask because there is a few advantages with fluid that could help you both in defence and attack. 

1. A fluid/very fluid shape reduces the space between your defence and attack by giving your attackers a lower mentality then what a structured approach would. The result is that your team is more compact and there is less space for the opponent to exploit between your lines.
2. It gives your players more creative freedom to step out of your tactical plan and be creative. 

 

I struggled with creating a structured tactic in FM17 and tried to experiment with shape because my initial tactic wasn't working as well as I had hoped. 

What I came up with was something that seems to be very solid at the back while at the same time gives my players the creative freedom to express themselves and be creative. 

 

Here is my setup:

 

Ok thanks something I've not tried, guess I felt comfortable with Flexible at a lower league team. 

However your formation with those roles looks very attacking... do you not leave lots of gaps on the wing and become constantly countered? 

[dieu]

Well the

40 minutes ago, LCFCEaves31 said:

However your formation with those roles looks very attacking... do you not leave lots of gaps on the wing and become constantly countered? 

Well, yes and no. I will of course concede the odd goal because my full backs are out of position, but it is not happening as much as you would think.

Now I am by no means a tactical expert in this game so what I tell you may of course be spectacularly wrong, but based on my limited knowledge of the ME I would say that my player roles, my shape and my defensive line will work together to prevent that counter from happening to often. 

• With Very Fluid shape my team are vertically more compact. With narrow width my team is also horizontally more compact. When the opponent break I will have more players close to the opponent so they can win the ball back. (Gegenpress)
• My D-line is normal so even with the increased mentality my central defence will not leave to much space behind them.
• My Inside forwards are set to support, that makes them more likely to track back and cover for my full backs. The Very fluid shape encourages the inside forwards to track back even more. (I think.)
• The DPL on support has hold position as a PI. That will make it stay back and cover my defence when my team is attacking. 

As I said I am no expert, I have no idea if my interpretation of the match engine are correct or not as I do not like to watch the games at all. However I think that I am correct and I would love it if someone with more ME know how would confirm if I am on to something or correct me if I am spreading false information.

 

[dieu]

I can't be way of can I?

[LCFCEaves31]

21 minutes ago, dieu said:

I can't be way of can I?

No, looks like it is going pretty well... and you haven't been sacked in your first season which is one up on me 

Your approach certainly seems to be different to mine, maybe I am being too reserved. A mate of mine is with Crewe currently and is playing with 433 and looks so attacking it makes me go white just looking at it... yet he is having a successful game. 
I always thought that with the type of player you have in League 2, keep it nice and simple... Keep it tight at the back and break with pace (if you have pace in the team of course) and that will do wonders in the lower leagues. Had previously worked for me in past versions.
I know I keep going on about it, but I just cannot understand what keeps causing a sudden implosion of game performance and death in moral. Basic defending disappeared, hoof ball and shooting from distance crept back in (which I had eradicated with PI's and TI's added slowly over time). I look forward to making the slight tweaks here and there from game to game, by watching the matches, but when what I am applying makes no difference at all, it not kills my morale but the players also. It was working, it isn't now... 

I think I will have to try and clear my mind and start a fresh and experiment with something completely different and unknown to me. Or sit and watch someone live on YouTube (which I am struggling to bring myself to, feel like my 10 year old watching people playing Minecraft...)

By the way, where the hell are Bayern Munich?! 

[dieu]

M

1 hour ago, LCFCEaves31 said:

Your approach certainly seems to be different to mine, maybe I am being too reserved. A mate of mine is with Crewe currently and is playing with 433 and looks so attacking it makes me go white just looking at it... yet he is having a successful game. 
I always thought that with the type of player you have in League 2, keep it nice and simple... Keep it tight at the back and break with pace (if you have pace in the team of course) and that will do wonders in the lower leagues. Had previously worked for me in past versions.

My philosophy is that if it works in the big leagues it will work in the lower leagues as well. Because you must remember that while my team are better suited to performing the way I want, the opponent is better as well.  In the lower leagues it is the opposite. The players are not as good, but neither are the opposition, so if my players makes mistakes the opposition may not be good enough to take advantage.

By the way. I use no PI's because I don't understand what effect they have on my tactic. Used in the wrong way PI's can destroy your shape.

[LCFCEaves31]

34 minutes ago, dieu said:

M

My philosophy is that if it works in the big leagues it will work in the lower leagues as well. Because you must remember that while my team are better suited to performing the way I want, the opponent is better as well.  

By the way. I use no PI's because I don't understand what effect they have on my tactic. Used in the wrong way PI's can destroy your shape.

The PI's I normally use are on 'less-skilled' players I guess... so my fb's kept hoofing it aimlessly rather than just playing a short pass inside to someone better on the ball than them. My BBM midfielder was also shooting at every opportunity even though his long shots wasn't great... I just wanted him to hit the box late and converting inside the area which started working very well, until the collapse. 

[Svenc]

I play exactly the same as on FM 2015
I don't worry about shape in iota
I barely use any player instruction conundrums
This overall plays pretty much completely the same as FM 2015 to me, despite the AI improvements talked about, reason of which may be that AI managers still cause top sides occasionally to underperform (depending on the AI's traits), and that they still go as low long-term to needing 20 shots on average to score a goal if you go through the team reports of each side.
I am familiar with the most newbie advice there is though, such as considering that a lone isolated forward posted as Target Man might not be a particularly grand idea. Firstly he will not provide much in terms of play, more importantly, who's next to his to support him once he gets the ball as fielding a target man up top will see players looking to pump the ball towards him from back to front.

You've got so assume this is tactical in the first place, which is just assumed. Whether it is, run a simple test.... holiday during match days and let your assistant take over. The game can actually played that way, has been that way for years. It's not that he can't fail but so can you. FM is as casual or as commited a game as you let it be. It's the only game I've ever had where you could get "results" and success whilst not contributing anything yourself, actually. Things get more complicated though when things either aren't kept simple (in particular if there are some understandably struggles with the tactical UI), unrealistic expectations are applied in relation to the squad's quality, or when players think they are Mourinho in general and know everything about football when they struggle with the basics (or at the very least, how it's translated into the game, which isn't spoon fed and nobody would love to hear). I know this post is going to frustrate, but I run the, "how would the team fare when I just applied to the job and holidayed doing nothing" test every year. It is, either way, not the tactical forums, this was clearly a rant, and I have just seen that rant was already posted elsewhere.

[westy8chimp]

7 minutes ago, Svenc said:

I play exactly the same as on FM 2015
I don't worry about shape in iota
I barely use any player instruction conundrums
This overall plays pretty much completely the same as FM 2015 to me, despite the AI improvements talked about, reason of which may be that AI managers still cause top sides occasionally to underperform (depending on the AI's traits), and that they still go as low long-term to needing 20 shots on average to score a goal if you go through the team reports of each side.
I am familiar with the most newbie advice there is though, such as considering that a lone isolated forward posted as Target Man might not be a particularly grand idea. Firstly he will not provide much in terms of play, more importantly, who's next to his to support him once he gets the ball as fielding a target man up top will see players looking to pump the ball towards him from back to front.

You've got so assume this is tactical in the first place, which is just assumed. Whether it is, run a simple test.... holiday during match days and let your assistant take over. The game can actually played that way, has been that way for years. It's not that he can't fail but so can you. FM is as casual or as commited a game as you let it be. It's the only game I've ever had where you could get "results" and success whilst not contributing anything yourself, actually. Things get more complicated though when things either aren't kept simple (in particular if there are some understandably struggles with the tactical UI), unrealistic expectations are applied in relation to the squad's quality, or when players think they are Mourinho in general and know everything about football when they struggle with the basics (or at the very least, how it's translated into the game, which isn't spoon fed and nobody would love to hear). I know this post is going to frustrate, but I run the, "how would the team fare when I just applied to the job and holidayed doing nothing" test every year. It is, either way, not the tactical forums, this was clearly a rant, and I have just seen that rant was already posted elsewhere.

The whole holiday thing is a dreadful way of testing a tactic. You as manager should be tweaking slightly throughout depending on the situation ... because the AI will be...

if you score the AI will up it's mentality so you should adjust one way or the other

if they score the AI will decrease mentality or stick.. but you should tweak because what you have isn't working

I get the premise... but not the practicality ... if the Asst. is allowed to tweak they basically change it completely or make silly subs... if they can't tweak then it's unrealistic test because at 2-0 up when the AI overload there is no reaction.

The biggest factor that creates the affect of the OP is how AI start to lineup... they don't 'work you out' but if you start with an OK team and win 10 in a row against teams who treat you as OK (and maybe attack you more) you start to be treated as a top team and teams set their stall more.

[LCFCEaves31]

22 minutes ago, westy8chimp said:

The whole holiday thing is a dreadful way of testing a tactic. You as manager should be tweaking slightly throughout depending on the situation ... because the AI will be...

if you score the AI will up it's mentality so you should adjust one way or the other

if they score the AI will decrease mentality or stick.. but you should tweak because what you have isn't working

I get the premise... but not the practicality ... if the Asst. is allowed to tweak they basically change it completely or make silly subs... if they can't tweak then it's unrealistic test because at 2-0 up when the AI overload there is no reaction.

The biggest factor that creates the affect of the OP is how AI start to lineup... they don't 'work you out' but if you start with an OK team and win 10 in a row against teams who treat you as OK (and maybe attack you more) you start to be treated as a top team and teams set their stall more.

Yep agree and makes perfect sense and I knew it would happen. A lot of games I'd go 1-0 up and sit and counter... what happened I believe was that teams then saw how well we were doing and decided to sit as well... so what happens? A stalemate? Like two south and south magnets being pushed together... however what happened is we began to be dominated. So I'd push the team up try and squeeze and press the opposition on the ball more but then got countered anyway. 

I will have to keep going, watching all the matches until it clicks. Maybe I got complacent after such a good run and took my foot off the gas as well as my players. Turning around a rot that sets in seems to be my biggest weakness. 

I wonder also if my tactics aren't actually any good but in the early stages the familiarity is low so they're going on instinct? Then when they get to grips with it, and become machine/robotic like with it, it cause problems? 

[westy8chimp]

when I reach the end of a winning streak ... I don't necessarily change my tactic in terms of an overhaul... but I do re-evaluate my tactic with an objective mind i.e. in my current  Sassuolo save I have really overachieved in the first few months, top in December with just 1 defeat in 16.. so in the back of my mind I'm preparing for the streak to end. It hasn't happened yet... but I've already started to think.. ok what tweaks can I make when it starts to come undone... teams will see me as a better side and sit deeper and maybe play more counter... so there are some holes I plug to gap.

The Sassuolo save is part of a challenge as well where I'm not allowed to change formation... so the only tweaks I can make are roles/duties/mentality. I'm currently on standard with a lower tempo shorter passing system... if/when teams do start treating me like a genuine contender I may have to just up the mentality a bit of play more direct ... or up my D Line etc

if you never take a step back and benchmark your team and what your mentality/roles/duties should be then you will hit big peaks and dips in form. You kind of have to stay ahead of form 'worm' by considering how you are seen by the opposition. i'll edit this in a sec with a pic from other post where I show I've highlighted a weakness but im not going to change it whilst on a good run..  

[Svenc]

1 hour ago, westy8chimp said:

The whole holiday thing is a dreadful way of testing a tactic. You as manager should be tweaking slightly throughout depending on the situation ... because the AI will be...

 

That's not a way of testing a tactic, which, by the way, is also a questionable style of playing for the reasons you brought up, as no OP is playing exactly the same way. It is a test what would happen if you let your assistant take over entirely. Because he then does the exact same thing as any AI at the core. Whether that is a joyful way of playing is another matter. That's merely a reply to the argument always brought up that you would need some degree in real management to get any success. I find the opposite, it's players thinking that they had had a degree on management and then go all wild who constantly underperform. The entire point of the tactics creator, as it was previously was brought up, was that anybody would be able to get something going within a minute, provided some fundamentally basics were present. If they are, you would never constantly underperform like that, as it's not merely a game of tactics, but also contests of worse and better players. There's still a frequently misconception that not clicking on a dozen TI/PI for instance couldn't possibly be a viable way of approaching things. The way the thing is set up, the entire point is that by chosing the roles that players already would have instructions compared to how the game worked previous, for instance.
 
That is the tactics part. It's not a game of but tactics, however. It is still wholly assumed the core issues would be severely tactical, i.e. severe issues with the core tactics applied. It could be completely panic decisions made during matches, it could be teams not up to snuff in any way, wrong selection of players... terrible man management. This is from experience. As when such saves are provided, things often look like this, and applying totally basic things would sort out like everything.

There is something to be said about how tactical downloads can give off "wrong" impressions too. There was already a talk about a mate doing well playing super aggressively apparently getting fantastic results, to much bewilderment of the guy apparently. Not sure if that mate engages into downloads, but they can give off the impression that a difference in tactical choice would be one that enabled sub par players to do fantastically well. That's a viable way of playing, but it is the nature of the beast that there's still two distinct playing cultures for as long as there is engine and AI issues left to exploit up to the point that the most mediocre of sides start flying by hitting continue. For some that is a incredibly fun, or a contest between SI and the creators of those. For others, not so much. Nobody is right or wrong on this. It's just the way things are and worth enquiring that mates about, depending on which. Because those tactics, quite indeed, look anything but logical (which is also why they oft stop bringing results when patches are applied).

The idea that the AI was some entity out to get you is, in any case, false. As is the notion that you would a degree in management to get something going. However, on equally parts I would find it disturbing if there wasn't players who were setting themselves up to fail. Despite opening a lot of threads, it is clear to me that the OP has never read any entry level step by step guides pinned in the tactics forums. Reading those takes like ten minutes. Following some of them to the letter would also ensure decent movement to prove a challenge against the defensive teams you described -- if that is contributing.

[westy8chimp]

12 minutes ago, Svenc said:

The idea that the AI was some entity out to get you is, in any case, false. As is the notion that you would a degree in management to get something going.

it is false... but there are mechanics which can easily lead people to believe it to be so.

sticking with the same tactic game after game year after year won't work ... especially when one week you are playing a 451 counter... the next week a 4231 control then a 352 attacking etc. Then factor in ... one season/session you are expected to come bottom of the league... the next you are expected to come top so opposition are changing mentality.

you don't need to be a particularly brilliant manager with a degree etc..but you have to use some common sense ... analysis etc

[dieu]

1 hour ago, westy8chimp said:

sticking with the same tactic game after game year after year won't work ... 

Yes it does. As long as the tactic does not have any obvious weaknesses that can be exploited it's no problem sticking with the same tactic all the time.

[westy8chimp]

1 minute ago, dieu said:

Yes it does. As long as the tactic does not have any obvious weaknesses that can be exploited it's no problem sticking with the same tactic all the time.

not in the context of my full quote... if the variables aren't changing... you can i.e. you are already top of the pack ... if you are Crewe for instance;

1st season: expected to come mid table... some teams will be defensive against you some will be attacking

mid season: you have performed well and are top ... teams consider you as a top team and more will play defensively than attacking

2nd season: you've been promoted, now youre seen as a relegation candidate and teams attack you

so on so forth on a up and down scale of how the AI perceive you ...

or even in a match 2-0 up and they switch to overload... they might start getting chances or might not... if they do you should tweak to where they are overloading.

 

[dieu]

And again. Yes you can.

Using my own save as an example.

First season: Rosenborg. Expected to win title. Won title.

Second season: Middlesbrough in the championship. Expected to get promoted. Got promoted.

3rd season: Expected to struggle to stay up. Finished 16th.

4th season: Still relegation candidates. Finished 7th. 

5th season: Mid table finish. Finished 7th.

6th season. Top half finish.Jumped ship in january while in 9th place. Only 4 points of 5th.

7th season: Wolfsburg. Top half finish. Came 3rd.

8th season: Europa League qualification. Won the league. 

9th season: Champions League qualification. Currently in 4th. 5 points of 1st. (See screen shot in a previous post).

 

I have used the same tactic as shown in a screen shot above for the entire save with all clubs, proving that you can stick with one tactic and be successfull.

[LCFCEaves31]

Interesting... I am yet to find success sticking with one tactic, but maybe you've found one you know inside out, and how to get the best of it all the time. @dieu do you ever have to change much during matches?

I am yet to complete a whole season (as mentioned) without being sacked, so I re-loaded up my Cambridge save where I last saved it from game from getting the boot. It was must win. 

I changed tactics, but not formation. I have a limited amount of players and it doesn't leave me with much room to change formation, so decided to go more attacking from previous (counter and Flexible/Structured), and moved to Control and Fluid. I am still not daring enough to ever use attacking... or very fluid. I am scared about leaving know one back! I am keeper for a 5-a-side team and all I see in my head is flashbacks of being exposed 2v1 all the time, because all our players want to be heroes and score the goals!

Anyway, it seemed to work, the opposition didn't seem to know what had hit them... For the first time, I have acknowledged that I probably should train on at least two tactics, so I can easily switch between the two. I have never done it on previous FM versions and I guess I was being stubborn... I had so much success before, so why wasn't it working now?! 

However from Dieu's comments it seems you can still have success with one tactic... I haven't as of yet.

One thing that I am now slightly confused about after everything that was written in here regarding Team Shape, is what scenario would you ever use Highly Structured? I have used Structured, more because I misunderstood it. I didn't think I had too much choice in League 2, the players shouldn't have flair or be able to make spontaneous decisions, because they are not at Lionel Messi's level... This part of the tactic was the bit I had the most questions about after weeks (since Early Jan) of reading and watching online FM tips.

[westy8chimp]

15 hours ago, dieu said:

And again. Yes you can.

Using my own save as an example.

First season: Rosenborg. Expected to win title. Won title.

Second season: Middlesbrough in the championship. Expected to get promoted. Got promoted.

3rd season: Expected to struggle to stay up. Finished 16th.

4th season: Still relegation candidates. Finished 7th. 

5th season: Mid table finish. Finished 7th.

6th season. Top half finish.Jumped ship in january while in 9th place. Only 4 points of 5th.

7th season: Wolfsburg. Top half finish. Came 3rd.

8th season: Europa League qualification. Won the league. 

9th season: Champions League qualification. Currently in 4th. 5 points of 1st. (See screen shot in a previous post).

 

I have used the same tactic as shown in a screen shot above for the entire save with all clubs, proving that you can stick with one tactic and be successfull.

you came 16th .. that to me is a failed tactic. you won when expected... that's not difficult... im talking about being good with tactics to keep up hot streaks and overachieve. any old tactic can be average.

[lemeuresnew]

2 minutes ago, westy8chimp said:

you came 16th .. that to me is a failed tactic. you won when expected... that's not difficult... im talking about being good with tactics to keep up hot streaks and overachieve. any old tactic can be average.

that is a little harsh... some times the hardest thing to do is stay up that first season! i would say that was a successful run at that type of club myself. no tactic can make up for a bad team with a top half finish EVERY season

[dieu]

24 minutes ago, LCFCEaves31 said:

 @dieu do you ever have to change much during matches?

I hardly make any changes during matches. Out of ten matches I maybe change things in 1 or 2. I trust that my tactic is a good one, and since I do not know (For certain) how the changes I make will affect my players and my tactic I tend to leave it as is.

I find that knowing your own limitations is very important in this game. I know that I am probably average at FM, and set my expectations accordingly. I know that I will have the odd wobble, and I accept that. Thats why I seldom overachieve  but it is rare that I underacheive as well.

What I do however is train three differnet tactics at a time with very different settings, so that when I do make that rare change during a match my team will be comfortable with the change I make. 

That is why I have a tactic that is more defensive with a lower D-line and more stand-offish, and I also have a tactic with a higher D-line and an in your face approach.

[westy8chimp]

Just now, lemeuresnew said:

that is a little harsh... some times the hardest thing to do is stay up that first season! i would say that was a successful run at that type of club myself. no tactic can make up for a bad team with a top half finish EVERY season

not harsh when someone tells you they can make a great tactic and never change it because it's so well balanced there are no weaknesses... then says they came 16th as their proof  it's farcical.

[lemeuresnew]

Just now, westy8chimp said:

not harsh when someone tells you they can make a great tactic and never change it because it's so well balanced there are no weaknesses... then says they came 16th as their proof  it's farcical.

not farcical, if he didn't have a solid tactic working for him he would of been relegated

[dieu]

2 minutes ago, westy8chimp said:

not harsh when someone tells you they can make a great tactic and never change it because it's so well balanced there are no weaknesses... then says they came 16th as their proof  it's farcical.

Please point me to the place where I have said that I have made a tactic that is so well balanced that there is no weaknesses! Of course there are weaknesses, but that was never the issue here.

You said and I quote you again

18 hours ago, westy8chimp said:

sticking with the same tactic game after game year after year won't work ...

If that was correct then I should have been sacked a long time ago. If you look at my save I have managed a title favourite (Rosenborg and Boro in the championship), relegation candidates (Boro in PL), a Mid table team (Boro in PL, S2/S3), a top 4 contender (Wolfsburg S1) and a title outsider (Wolfsburg S2/S3). If that dosen't fit into this qoute here, please tell me:

 

17 hours ago, westy8chimp said:

not in the context of my full quote... if the variables aren't changing... you can i.e. you are already top of the pack ... if you are Crewe for instance;

1st season: expected to come mid table... some teams will be defensive against you some will be attacking

mid season: you have performed well and are top ... teams consider you as a top team and more will play defensively than attacking

2nd season: you've been promoted, now youre seen as a relegation candidate and teams attack you

so on so forth on a up and down scale of how the AI perceive you ...

or even in a match 2-0 up and they switch to overload... they might start getting chances or might not... if they do you should tweak to where they are overloading.

 

Now what I consider sucessfull and what you consider successfull is probably two very different things. I consider it successfull if I acheive around what is expected of me or better and make steady progress year on year. 

Staying up with a relegation candidate is successfull in my book. So is finishing 7th the year after that and cementing a top half team in the year after that. Winning the league with a title outsider like Wolfsburg is successfull. So is winning the league with Rosenborg.

Could I have done better if I approached the game like you say you have to? Probably, but that does not take away from the fact that I have been successfull playing the game in a way that you said was not possible.

[sipsi]

As the tactical interface and the match engine is improving year by year(there are also people arguing about that but it's another subject) giving a more complex managerial experience and control; I think we, most of the players are beginning to forget to focus on player quality side of the game. In past most of the time it was about finding the good players and buying them but lately I began to see some possession fetishists or pompous formulas with specific receipts.

Saving all your presence, I believe accepting the general ideas and being a bit open minded and experimenting personally is the real joy of this type of games. Step by step it will improve you(patience is another key here)

Out of context. I was the ranked 1 player in a famous RPG game a few years ago. I remember some people were telling me about how wrong I was about a build we were arguing about. Actually I was the one who found and wrote the build guide in the first place :-)

Good day to you all :-)

[westy8chimp]

4 minutes ago, dieu said:

Now what I consider sucessfull and what you consider successfull is probably two very different things

indeed. I think it's bad advice to just pick a tactic and never change... if you like to stay with your formation and coast that's fine... but the OP is having trouble with hitting a wall.. there are reasons for this ... and minor tweaks here and there can improve your tactic.

[Fordyboy45]

The temptation to always look to manage a top side is fatal, especially if the current team you're managing is doing well. The prospect of a 100m transfer budget is all and we'll but is pretty fatal in past experiences. The creators of the game know what they're doing, so my advice is to stick with a side that's doing well.

[dieu]

17 minutes ago, westy8chimp said:

indeed. I think it's bad advice to just pick a tactic and never change... if you like to stay with your formation and coast that's fine... but the OP is having trouble with hitting a wall.. there are reasons for this ... and minor tweaks here and there can improve your tactic.

Well I would say that for some it would be bad advise, for others it would be good advise. That is based on how you play the game and the knowledge level of the player. 

If you play like I do with a tactic that has to many weaknesses and do badly then I would agree with you. He should try to make changes and small tweaks in order to improve. But if he plays like you do while his knowledge of how the changes he's making affect his tactic is lacking, then I would say that he should probably take a step back and not  make so many changes because it may well be that the changes he makes is hurting him more than helping him.

[LCFCEaves31]

1 hour ago, dieu said:

Well I would say that for some it would be bad advise, for others it would be good advise. That is based on how you play the game and the knowledge level of the player. 

If you play like I do with a tactic that has to many weaknesses and do badly then I would agree with you. He should try to make changes and small tweaks in order to improve. But if he plays like you do while his knowledge of how the changes he's making affect his tactic is lacking, then I would say that he should probably take a step back and not  make so many changes because it may well be that the changes he makes is hurting him more than helping him.

 

1 hour ago, westy8chimp said:

indeed. I think it's bad advice to just pick a tactic and never change... if you like to stay with your formation and coast that's fine... but the OP is having trouble with hitting a wall.. there are reasons for this ... and minor tweaks here and there can improve your tactic.

I tend to agree with both of you really... I do think I lack knowledge regarding to how this game works. Something that perhaps I see IRL and then try to apply best I can in the game has hurt me on previous versions, so I ditched that theory. 

I have recently ditched the theory that "I will only do well if I have good players and plenty of money". While it is easier, and can be a good platform to learn, tactics and roles play a big part and you can get just as good a performance from a lower league side as you can fail massively with some of the best players in the world.
Also the thought process of "I will only use 4-2-3-1 because that always works, with a set amount of roles" etc. If there is only one tactic that works for every team and suits all the players the same, then what would be the point in giving the player so many options (forgetting real life for a minute).

So I have had to accept that this game can be enjoyed still, IF I adapt and try and learn along the way. I will be honest... I have used one or tactics for about the last 5 versions of FM, having mixed results. Some saves I would romp to the title, some I would be sacked in mid December, but I always put it down to other reasons other than me getting it wrong. Very frustrating at times and I am not going to lie, I want to throw the PC out the window and come on a forum and rant about how crap the game is, but once I have calmed down... I realise that there are thousands of people playing this and enjoying it, so there is something I am missing. Which is why I still come here, because it opens my eyes and learn something each time. 

Like I said above however, there are still parts I do not quite get, but that isn't because I don't want to learn, it is because I haven't needed to, I've got by. 

Sorry for rambling and thanks for constructive comments. 

I will hit the tactic threads again soon, because I do need to get a much better understanding of team shape. 

[noikeee]

48 minutes ago, LCFCEaves31 said:

I will hit the tactic threads again soon, because I do need to get a much better understanding of team shape. 

Maybe leave that for later and stick to Flexible at the beginning. Team shape is great to fiddle with, but that's kinda more advanced stuff. To get some results going on, you're gonna get the most impact if you get your roles and duties to interact well. That's the most important thing in the game right now.

Personally my approach is, I've built over many seasons a base tactic that I know tends to work reasonably well. Took me absolute ages patiently fiddling with the settings to get everything interacting well, but I now know it's well balanced. 

But I don't stick with it every match. There's a large advantage to be gained from adapting to situations, don't be afraid of adapting to opponents on a match-to-match basis - as long as you don't go super miles out from your trusted base into the unknown, otherwise you can lose control of what you're doing. For example I might only change my mentality one notch and the role of a player in a key area I'm struggling with. This can be enough changes to make a difference in a match.

To adapt, try to notice what are your opponents doing. Are they attacking with everything? So they must be gifting you space somewhere, attack that space. Are they parking the bus afraid of your team? Maybe tell your team to be a bit more patient and maximize space on the pitch. Also know your weaknesses. Every tactic has a weakness no matter how good it is. What part of your team goes missing when it starts going badly? Are your midfielders being muscled out? Are your defenders not winning their duels? Are your forwards rushing to crap decisions and making crap shots because of it? If you figure this out, you can then start thinking of things to help out and minimize your problem.

[Svenc]

Shape has been a bit modified and can give you a slightly benefit, but really... everything that is taught you on this in the tactics sub forums is 99% totally beyond any AI opponent and how they utilize it -- let alone like 99% of FM's player base, who don't visit the forums either way. It's fantastic stuff but I am a rigid no fancy guy 99% of times, I never change it, and neither do I run into trouble all the time, nor do I have a problem overachieving most of the time. AI does worse with the same teams again and again. If you have the balance in jobs and duties, you are fine. It is still assumed that the core issue would be primarily tactical. You don't underperform consistently unless you're misfiring on several cylinders, or your core tactics would be horrible. There is other areas impacting matches, see the "game is rigged" thread where the player selection didn't meet the team instruction conundrums in place at all, the squad selection left better players out of the starting eleven, and who knows what is going on in matches and how often things are chopped around at totally panic, let alone how the team is treated in the dressing room and media modules. He could pull a "caption obvious" here and praise them for every barely win against worse opposition where a confident win was no less than expected, and slam them on every loss, which can make him run into trouble, encourage point drops, then losses leading to slumps and further extending those slumps almost all by itself for all nobody knows.

Dieu may be on the other extreme end, but there is totally room for a "keep it simple stupid" guide rather than in-depth essays on team shape and encouraging players to start with micro-analysing match sequences (both stuff beyond any AI scope). This failed with others before. Dafuge may be one to write it, as he goes through match days on commentary, and once he has his core sussed, doesn't chop things around either. Naturally, players like his won't be much around in the tactics forums, precisely because they keep it simple. Going that route won't make you drastically over perform immediately, but there is other areas where you can outperform AI, in particular long to mid-term as their squad policy and bang for the buck on the markets ain't exactly Cloughie. More importantly, sticking to such basics won't let you underperform all the time. Naturally, arguably not any AI should be ever programmed to be master class in all areas either way -- though personally I sure would at least like the elite to get their act together. In my opinion you need to seriously stretch some to be as inconsistent as AI Guardiola.

The issue the OP has is he is struggling with the absolutely basics, or else he wouldn't run into trouble every save. That is, and will be, an easy fix. Provided he would stick to the basics and start with those!

[LCFCEaves31]

19 hours ago, noikeee said:

Maybe leave that for later and stick to Flexible at the beginning. Team shape is great to fiddle with, but that's kinda more advanced stuff. To get some results going on, you're gonna get the most impact if you get your roles and duties to interact well. That's the most important thing in the game right now.

Personally my approach is, I've built over many seasons a base tactic that I know tends to work reasonably well. Took me absolute ages patiently fiddling with the settings to get everything interacting well, but I now know it's well balanced. 

But I don't stick with it every match. There's a large advantage to be gained from adapting to situations, don't be afraid of adapting to opponents on a match-to-match basis - as long as you don't go super miles out from your trusted base into the unknown, otherwise you can lose control of what you're doing. For example I might only change my mentality one notch and the role of a player in a key area I'm struggling with. This can be enough changes to make a difference in a match.

To adapt, try to notice what are your opponents doing. Are they attacking with everything? So they must be gifting you space somewhere, attack that space. Are they parking the bus afraid of your team? Maybe tell your team to be a bit more patient and maximize space on the pitch. Also know your weaknesses. Every tactic has a weakness no matter how good it is. What part of your team goes missing when it starts going badly? Are your midfielders being muscled out? Are your defenders not winning their duels? Are your forwards rushing to crap decisions and making crap shots because of it? If you figure this out, you can then start thinking of things to help out and minimize your problem.

I was already on Flexible and Standard/Counter when I hit my poor run of form 

Despite what some have said on here, I DO have an understanding of MOST of the basics, but it is how they all link. I feel my formation and roles are always balanced in a defensive way, but struggled with attacking play on this particular version. There are just pieces of the jigsaw I am missing and some of them I have found by posting in here. 

The part mentioned here about morale is where I have come a cropper I believe. I was praising wherever I could, even if the players numbers on average were about 6.5, but we still won. I never looked at the team talk feedback after a game to what affect it was having and in turn I think everyone became over confident. I certainly am trying to be a bit more assertive with them. I had previously read (and taken it too far I think) that morale is massive in this game, so keep everyone happy... well that's how I read it anyway. 
I suppose if we played on average a 6.5 game and won, I praised them, then a 6.5 game and lost and told them it wasn't good enough, this must effect the performance, confuse them? Not an expert on team talks, never needed to be as long as I've been winning majority of the time.

18 hours ago, Svenc said:

Shape has been a bit modified and can give you a slightly benefit, but really... everything that is taught you on this in the tactics sub forums is 99% totally beyond any AI opponent and how they utilize it -- let alone like 99% of FM's player base, who don't visit the forums either way. It's fantastic stuff but I am a rigid no fancy guy 99% of times, I never change it, and neither do I run into trouble all the time, nor do I have a problem overachieving most of the time. AI does worse with the same teams again and again. If you have the balance in jobs and duties, you are fine. It is still assumed that the core issue would be primarily tactical. You don't underperform consistently unless you're misfiring on several cylinders, or your core tactics would be horrible. There is other areas impacting matches, see the "game is rigged" thread where the player selection didn't meet the team instruction conundrums in place at all, the squad selection left better players out of the starting eleven, and who knows what is going on in matches and how often things are chopped around at totally panic, let alone how the team is treated in the dressing room and media modules. He could pull a "caption obvious" here and praise them for every barely win against worse opposition where a confident win was no less than expected, and slam them on every loss, which can make him run into trouble, encourage point drops, then losses leading to slumps and further extending those slumps almost all by itself for all nobody knows.

Dieu may be on the other extreme end, but there is totally room for a "keep it simple stupid" guide rather than in-depth essays on team shape and encouraging players to start with micro-analysing match sequences (both stuff beyond any AI scope). This failed with others before. Dafuge may be one to write it, as he goes through match days on commentary, and once he has his core sussed, doesn't chop things around either. Naturally, players like his won't be much around in the tactics forums, precisely because they keep it simple. Going that route won't make you drastically over perform immediately, but there is other areas where you can outperform AI, in particular long to mid-term as their squad policy and bang for the buck on the markets ain't exactly Cloughie. More importantly, sticking to such basics won't let you underperform all the time. Naturally, arguably not any AI should be ever programmed to be master class in all areas either way -- though personally I sure would at least like the elite to get their act together. In my opinion you need to seriously stretch some to be as inconsistent as AI Guardiola.

The issue the OP has is he is struggling with the absolutely basics, or else he wouldn't run into trouble every save. That is, and will be, an easy fix. Provided he would stick to the basics and start with those!

 

[dieu]

4 hours ago, LCFCEaves31 said:

The part mentioned here about morale is where I have come a cropper I believe. I was praising wherever I could, even if the players numbers on average were about 6.5, but we still won. I never looked at the team talk feedback after a game to what affect it was having and in turn I think everyone became over confident. I certainly am trying to be a bit more assertive with them. I had previously read (and taken it too far I think) that morale is massive in this game, so keep everyone happy... well that's how I read it anyway. 
I suppose if we played on average a 6.5 game and won, I praised them, then a 6.5 game and lost and told them it wasn't good enough, this must effect the performance, confuse them? Not an expert on team talks, never needed to be as long as I've been winning majority of the time.

 

Negative team talks will never affect morale as long as they are justified. Being to harsh obviuosly will, but as long as you use common sense you should be fine.

I often use my press conferences and team talks to shake tings up when things are going well. For instance If you are the top dog in the league and get outplayed by rock bottom but you get lucky and score the winner in injury time. Then it's pretty safe to assume that the players would expect you to go mental on them! I often criticize my players during half time even if I'm in the lead because I feel that the performance has been bellow par. Usually when I do it the result is like this:

But be carefull, criticizing like that at the wrong time can have a very negative effect. 

 

Like Svenc said there is always the assumption that if things start to go pear shaped is always a tactical issue that's responsible, but that need not be the case. Match fitness, form, confidence and morale can also have influence on a slump.

People often criticize team talks and press conferences for being repetitive and boring. It's just the same answers over and over again, but people tend to forget that the same answer in FM will not give the same result every time. There's more to it then just saying stuff for the sake of it. Context is everything.

If you have won 7-8 games on the trot and confidence is sky high, now is the time to be more critical. If you are on a losing streak be supportive. Try to build them up. The odds are that you won't end that slump if you destroy their confidence even more.

I have loads of examples like that.

• Your star striker is banging them in for fun. He has scored 5 in 5 now, and his confidence is through the roof, but his overall performance is starting to decline. Bench him. That way you tell him and his team mates that if they want to keep their place they have to fight hard for it. 
• You are facing a opponent that has won their last 5-6 games in a row. Use the press conference to build up the opponent, try to make him overconfident. Because if your team can be overconfident. So can the AI
• You are facing a opponent on a losing streak. Try to get their confidence even lower, while at the same time telling your own players that it will not be a walk in the park.

This is often an ignored part of FM that if used correctly can be of great benefit. Of course if your issue is tactical, doing press conferences and team talks well will not cover for the bad tactic, but if your tactic is fine then doing press conferences and team talks can be the difference between a draw or a victory or a loss or a win. 

I think that Cleon once said that in FM 90-95% is tactics, and the rest accounts for maybe 5%. But say that your tactic against an opponent is even. There is no great advantage for either side. This is were press conference and team talk comes in to play. You manage to get the opponent to become overconfident while at the same time you get your own players to believe that they can beat the opponent. Now the strength is maybe 51-49 in your favour and that two percent difference is what gives you the victory.

 

 

[Carlito85]

Personally I've found the use of a good Data Analyst to be a massive help this year in terms of knowing the right areas to adapt to opponents. I make sure to take notes on everything they give me and keep the notes available during matches. As a result I've been making steady progress over the course of 3 seasons, managing to avoid relegation with Whitley Bay (finished comfortably around 10th) to then finishing 10th and 5th (losing the playoff final) with Leatherhead. I'm just going into my 4th season now and I'm projected for promotion.

Additionally I've always been wary of certain personalities in press conferences. I've noticed over the last few years that whenever I had sudden but major dips in form, it was the result of saying something to the press that I shouldn't have and it allowed complacency or a lack of confidence to creep into the squad. I've always imagined that being able to handle the press may be much more important than the game lets on.

[LCFCEaves31]

Team talks, press conferences and morale boosting certainly was/is a weakness of mine. Never used them properly, misunderstood the importance and the affect they have in game.

ive adjusted how approach the above and I've done something I've never done before... created two different tactics and I've been using them depending on the situation. 

So... I've gone from a losing streak to manager of the month within 5 weeks in game. The posts on this thread and reading stuff in the tactics forum certainly has helped. I feel more confident now and just a bit gutted I didn't know what I know now on older versions as I'm sure I could've had even more success on there than what I actually did. I'm not saying all is perfect and I'm an expert by any means, far from it, but there's factors I see now that I didn't before. 

Hopefully any other issues I come across I can work out or il be back again. But one thing I'd say to others who are struggling... yes it feels like the game is against you and yes I still have temper tantrums in my late 20's but there's a lot of people having success playing it differently. Some stick to one tactic while others change and adapt. Some do team talks some don't. Some people play with a target man, some don't play with a striker at all! But try to get an exact understanding of the basics (even though some on here insist I don't understand the basics) and then look at what's happening and if you don't know why it's happening, ask someone on here as most give good advice. 

No doubt I've written all this and il be back moaning again!! I will seriously try not too though...