Goal keeper training.

[Tipps]

Sorry, I'm sure it would of been mentioned somewhere on here but I did a quick search & came up with nothing.

Why are the options for goal keeper training so poor? I don't want to train my keeper to score in every way possible or to dictate the tempo like my midfield or to practice any other outfield player trait.

I want to be able to train my keeper on actual goal keeping, things that will help him to "keep goal".

Is this ever going to be sorted?

[herne79]

Are you talking about PPMs?  If so, raise it in the Feature Requests forum along with some examples of new PPMs you'd like to see.

If you're talking about individual player training, head to the Player Info screen and select Development > Training.  From there you can define Goalkeeper or Sweeper Keeper training, along with a selection of specific to role Focus areas.  That will set your keepers to work on their ability to "keep goal" as you put it.

[Tipps]

 

6 minutes ago, herne79 said:

Are you talking about PPMs?  If so, raise it in the Feature Requests forum along with some examples of new PPMs you'd like to see.

If you're talking about individual player training, head to the Player Info screen and select Development > Training.  From there you can define Goalkeeper or Sweeper Keeper training, along with a selection of specific to role Focus areas.  That will set your keepers to work on their ability to "keep goal" as you put it.

Sorry, I'm not up on what all the abbreviations mean, I mean when I go into development- training - New player trait.

I click on my goal keeping coach & I can do Passing Training, Finishing Training or Technique Training. And then it gives me lots of options like "start coaching player x to try & lob the keeper when one on one!!

This is exactly the same options if I go through the same options for one of my strikers or midfielders or defenders.

I would like to train my keeper to say, practice catching crosses from the left / right or to practice saving / stopping a player on one on ones or practice lining up his wall & saving freekick or practice saving penalties. For him to be able to improve his goal keeping not improve his lobs for when he isn't one on one with the oppositions keeper.

I can't be the only one who has brought this up surely? I've tried different coaches at different clubs & the options are always the same. Or do goal keepers no longer practice in game scenarios any more?

[HUNT3R]

Just now, Tipps said:

I would like to train my keeper to say, practice catching crosses from the left / right or to practice saving / stopping a player on one on ones or practice lining up his wall & saving freekick or practice saving penalties. For him to be able to improve his goal keeping not improve his lobs for when he isn't one on one with the oppositions keeper.

That has nothing to do with player traits though. That's simply individual or role training.

[Tipps]

Is it not similar to training your striker to lob a keeper or go round a keeper etc? Why would I want to train my keeper to lob the oppositions keeper etc?

So there's no way to put my keeper through extra training to catch inswinging crosses / corners from the left / right? Or for him to practice saving penalties? But I can teach him to "try killer balls" or "look to pass rather than shoot"

All the keepers can do is the same as the outfield players, why?

Am I really being that thick?

[Welshace]

I have no idea why Hunter hasn't addressed the issue you bring up..

 

Have  to admit, I hadn't come across it myself, but you are quite right.. it's not working as intended that's for sure...

You aren't being thick...

[Tipps]

7 minutes ago, Welshace said:

I have no idea why Hunter hasn't addressed the issue you bring up..

 

Have  to admit, I hadn't come across it myself, but you are quite right.. it's not working as intended that's for sure...

You aren't being thick...

Cheers @Welshace 

I was starting to wonder if it was just my game or something.

[johnhughthom]

Hunter did address the issue though?

Those training options are to teach player particular tendencies, not to practice scenarios. I can't think of any goalkeeping tendencies that aren't covered by attributes already in the game, so is there really any need for them?

 

[Tipps]

16 minutes ago, johnhughthom said:

Hunter did address the issue though?

Those training options are to teach player particular tendencies, not to practice scenarios. I can't think of any goalkeeping tendencies that aren't covered by attributes already in the game, so is there really any need for them?

 

Well in which case why allow the keepers to have the option? I'm not expecting De Gea or any other keeper to train at being able to lob the oppositions keeper or any other way of scoring but I would like for him to be known as a penalty saving expert or to be able to command his area & come for crosses.

Are keepers not known for being able to do one thing in particular well or not so well as other parts of their games? So we would be able to use the goal keeper coach a bit better........

[Tajerio]

But all the things you've mentioned are covered by attributes like Command of Area, One on Ones, Reflexes, Aerial Reach, and so forth.  A player trait is something the player prefers to do over other options when he has multiple reasonable options available.  Your posts make it seem as though you want PPMs like Saves Penalties Well, which doesn't really work with the system.

Now, the ability to train one's goalkeeper in different finishing styles is more than a bit weird, I'll give you that.

[Tipps]

4 minutes ago, Tajerio said:

But all the things you've mentioned are covered by attributes like Command of Area, One on Ones, Reflexes, Aerial Reach, and so forth.  A player trait is something the player prefers to do over other options when he has multiple reasonable options available.  Your posts make it seem as though you want PPMs like Saves Penalties Well, which doesn't really work with the system.

Now, the ability to train one's goalkeeper in different finishing styles is more than a bit weird, I'll give you that.

Okay, I get what you're saying but it just seems that there could be better for the keepers.

Looking at the additional focus there is penalties but it doesn't state if it's taking or saving & under the goalkeeping stats there is penalty taking but nothing for penalty saving. And under the additional focus there are free kicks but is that taking or saving? 

I used to be a qualified FA coach & I can assure there are things that can be done with a keeper that don't involve me having to teach him how to lob the oppositions keeper!

[HUNT3R]

48 minutes ago, Welshace said:

I have no idea why Hunter hasn't addressed the issue you bring up..

I did. The ideas he mentions, are trainable attributes, not player traits. I agree that quite a few PPMs that currently can be taught is useless for a keeper, but that wasn't the point. Tajerio summed it up well.

[HUNT3R]

3 minutes ago, Tipps said:

Okay, I get what you're saying but it just seems that there could be better for the keepers.

Looking at the additional focus there is penalties but it doesn't state if it's taking or saving & under the goalkeeping stats there is penalty taking but nothing for penalty saving. And under the additional focus there are free kicks but is that taking or saving? 

I used to be a qualified FA coach & I can assure there are things that can be done with a keeper that don't involve me having to teach him how to lob the oppositions keeper!

None of them qualify as Player Traits though and do fall under attributes to be increased. If you do have suggestions for GK Traits, that's a different matter and there's a section for new feature requests.

[Tipps]

5 minutes ago, HUNT3R said:

None of them qualify as Player Traits though and do fall under attributes to be increased. If you do have suggestions for GK Traits, that's a different matter and there's a section for new feature requests.

But if what I'm questioning isn't a goalkeeping trait, it's pointless in me posting it there, isn't it?

I just feel like the goal keepers are under stated & the training available to them is non existent but if I'm the only one then that's fine. 

I'll carry on & train my keeper to do overhead kicks.

[HUNT3R]

Just now, Tipps said:

I just feel like the goal keepers are under stated & the training available to them is non existent but if I'm the only one then that's fine. 

I'm not disagreeing with you, if you read the post just before the one you quoted. I'm saying that what you suggested already is in the game.

[Tipps]

Well, I can train my keeper to take penalties but not save them & the same for free-kicks.

I'll put something in the feature request sub-forum & see what happens there.

I was just sure that someone else must of found it weird but I guess not.

Cheers.

[HUNT3R]

By the way, the Penalties and Free Kick additional focus will train their taking of those set-pieces. The attribute is called Penalty Taking. Them being able to train free kick taking is odd since they don't have that attribute. Their other attributes will determine how well they are able to save either of these.

[Tipps]

 

18 minutes ago, HUNT3R said:

By the way, the Penalties and Free Kick additional focus will train their taking of those set-pieces. The attribute is called Penalty Taking. Them being able to train free kick taking is odd since they don't have that attribute. Their other attributes will determine how well they are able to save either of these.

I've stuck something over on the request sub-forum for discussion, see how that goes.

Thanks for your help guys.

[Welshace]

1 hour ago, johnhughthom said:

Hunter did address the issue though?

Those training options are to teach player particular tendencies, not to practice scenarios. I can't think of any goalkeeping tendencies that aren't covered by attributes already in the game, so is there really any need for them?

 

Don't misunderstand me, I was merely stating that being able to ask a keeper to learn outfield tendancies is clearly superfluous and is the actual issue at hand...

 

I wasn't slating Hunter or anyone.

[Spurs08]

41 minutes ago, HUNT3R said:

By the way, the Penalties and Free Kick additional focus will train their taking of those set-pieces. The attribute is called Penalty Taking. Them being able to train free kick taking is odd since they don't have that attribute. Their other attributes will determine how well they are able to save either of these.

I could be mistaken but I believe goalkeepers actually do  have a free-kick taking attribute, it just isn't visible to the user.

[herne79]

1 hour ago, Spurs08 said:

I could be mistaken but I believe goalkeepers actually do  have a free-kick taking attribute, it just isn't visible to the user.

Just as an aside (sorry for off topic) it is visible.  It's still on the attributes screen but underneath the Physicals section, along with Technique.

[johnhughthom]

2 hours ago, Welshace said:

Don't misunderstand me, I was merely stating that being able to ask a keeper to learn outfield tendancies is clearly superfluous and is the actual issue at hand...

 

I wasn't slating Hunter or anyone.

Oh no, I didn't think you were slating anyone, I simply thought you misunderstood the issue at hand.

To me it's quite simple, there are no options for goalkeepers because goalkeeper tendencies can all be modelled through the current set of attributes, certainly I haven't seen any brought up here. I assume the option to train outfield ppms is for keepers who can also play outfield, though admittedly those are few and far between.

[lemeuresnew]

couldn't you have moves to counter different strikers? so a stays on feet option to better counter a keeper getting rounded, or a stays on line so not to get lobbed? just to add a bit of character to the keeper

[bananahk]

2 hours ago, lemeuresnew said:

couldn't you have moves to counter different strikers? so a stays on feet option to better counter a keeper getting rounded, or a stays on line so not to get lobbed? just to add a bit of character to the keeper

isn't it a rushing out rating and one on one?

[lemeuresnew]

kind of. rushing out is, from what i understand, like tendency to punch. not an attribute per say

but you see different keepers do different things when they rush out

[Spurs08]

14 hours ago, herne79 said:

Just as an aside (sorry for off topic) it is visible.  It's still on the attributes screen but underneath the Physicals section, along with Technique.

Ah, that rings a bell now you mention it. Not something I look at much - even if the goalie's really good with his free kicks it seems like a bit of a suicidal strategy

[Tom14]

The only player trait I can think of that might apply to goalkeepers that I don't think is covered in the attributes is the tendency to come out of their box/play sweeper keeper. I'm not commenting on the success of them being able to do this, as this would be covered by the attributes, just that some keepers are more likely to do it than others.

[Spurs08]

25 minutes ago, brookie1402 said:

The only player trait I can think of that might apply to goalkeepers that I don't think is covered in the attributes is the tendency to come out of their box/play sweeper keeper. I'm not commenting on the success of them being able to do this, as this would be covered by the attributes, just that some keepers are more likely to do it than others.

I believe that this is what the "Rushing Out" attribute does, working the same way as "Tendency to Punch", it's just poorly named. The actual speed they rush out at is governed by Acceleration and their likelihood to save if they're beaten to the ball is primarily handled by Reflexes.

[Tom14]

7 minutes ago, Spurs08 said:

I believe that this is what the "Rushing Out" attribute does, working the same way as "Tendency to Punch", it's just poorly named. The actual speed they rush out at is governed by Acceleration and their likelihood to save if they're beaten to the ball is primarily handled by Reflexes.

Manual description of rushing out is "How good the goalkeeper is at coming off his line to react to through balls and similar situations. A goalkeeper will benefit from Pace and Acceleration here as well."

[HUNT3R]

8 hours ago, brookie1402 said:

The only player trait I can think of that might apply to goalkeepers that I don't think is covered in the attributes is the tendency to come out of their box/play sweeper keeper. I'm not commenting on the success of them being able to do this, as this would be covered by the attributes, just that some keepers are more likely to do it than others.

Decent idea. There's a thread in the feature requests section - add it there!

[Guest]

8 hours ago, brookie1402 said:

Manual description of rushing out is "How good the goalkeeper is at coming off his line to react to through balls and similar situations. A goalkeeper will benefit from Pace and Acceleration here as well."

Last time I asked someone who works on the training module team thay said that rushing out was a tendancy (higher = more likely to come off their line / out of their area) but that definition sounds more like an ability to me.

[OhHoopedOne]

If you can improve a player's leadership by training, you should also be allowed to improve a goalkeeper's ability at one v ones with specific training. I think that  the ability to do this shouid be added as part of a long overdue overhaul of not just goalkeeping training but training in general as, at the moment, it is all too vague.

[bananahk]

26 minutes ago, OhHoopedOne said:

If you can train a player's leadership, you should also be allowed to train a goalkeeper's ability at one v ones. I think that  the ability to do so shouid be added as part of a long overdue overhaul of not just goalkeeping training but training in general as, at the moment, it is all too vague.

its already an one-on-one  attribute

[OhHoopedOne]

2 minutes ago, bananahk said:

its already an one-on-one  attribute

You can't train a goalkeeper's one v ones, you can work on his handling and almost every other goalkeeping attribute but not one v ones

[Guest]

@HUNT3R: The problem here is that goalkeepers simply aren't differentiated enough in the game, which is clearly an oversight and shows, perhaps, a lack of interest from SI's side. Most of the PPMs available for goalkeepers have no use, and I don't think anyone would even want to try teaching one of them to their goalie. They are outfield player traits.

 

A similar problem arises if your goalkeeper is man of the match. You will get a news item about this, and your goalkeeper will be shown with outfield player attributes: his brilliant performance is lauded with statistics about the amount of goals he scored, the amount of his assists and tackles (all will almost certainly be 0). Obviously, this doesn't make sense. But there you go.

[HUNT3R]

Just now, xzar_monty said:

@HUNT3R: The problem here is that goalkeepers simply aren't differentiated enough in the game, which is clearly an oversight and shows, perhaps, a lack of interest from SI's side. Most of the PPMs available for goalkeepers have no use, and I don't think anyone would even want to try teaching one of them to their goalie. They are outfield player traits.

Don't make assumptions about SI. I'm not going to say this again.

[eriktous]

9 hours ago, OhHoopedOne said:

You can't train a goalkeeper's one v ones, you can work on his handling and almost every other goalkeeping attribute but not one v ones

There are a lot more you can't train, right? Aerial Ability, Command of Area, Communication, Reflexes spring to mind.

[OhHoopedOne]

5 hours ago, eriktous said:

There are a lot more you can't train, right? Aerial Ability, Command of Area, Communication, Reflexes spring to mind.

That's why I said that goalkeeper training and training in general needs a complete overhaul

[Guest]

@HUNT3R: With all due respect, and as my wording makes quite clear, that was not an assumption. I understand your point. If I make assumptions, there will be no ambiguity about it.

 

@OhHoopedOne: Why training in general? I believe training in general is better than ever, and really quite good. The only issue I have with training in general is the misleading information you get when someone is learning a PPM and you want to tutor him. The game says "There is no suitable tutor for <player name>", when that is not the case. It should say something along the lines of "You cannot give this player a tutor, as he is already studying for a PPM".

[OhHoopedOne]

6 minutes ago, xzar_monty said:

@HUNT3R: With all due respect, and as my wording makes quite clear, that was not an assumption. I understand your point. If I make assumptions, there will be no ambiguity about it.

 

@OhHoopedOne: Why training in general? I believe training in general is better than ever, and really quite good. The only issue I have with training in general is the misleading information you get when someone is learning a PPM and you want to tutor him. The game says "There is no suitable tutor for <player name>", when that is not the case. It should say something along the lines of "You cannot give this player a tutor, as he is already studying for a PPM".

As I said in a a previous post, it's all too vague. For example, you can train and improve a player's first touch but you can't dictate how he or the coach/coaches go about doing this. In real life if you had a player who had poor technique or a bad first touch, you could work on this by giving  him specific training exercises such as 5 a sides or piggy in the middle(or whatever Barca call it). This is just one example of the many things that could be incorporated into the training to make it more rounded and give you more control when it comes to the development of individual players and their various attributes

[HUNT3R]

29 minutes ago, xzar_monty said:

@HUNT3R: With all due respect, and as my wording makes quite clear, that was not an assumption. I understand your point. If I make assumptions, there will be no ambiguity about it.

Sure, go ahead if you don't mind infractions.

The thread has been decent. Let's keep it that way.

[Guest]

@OhHoopedOne: I see what you mean, but I'm not sure if what you suggest is really necessary. If the goal is to improve a player's first touch, it doesn't really matter how the game goes about it, as the result, such as it is, will simply be reflected in an attribute rise. Devising a multitude of training strategies would greatly increase the complexity, but I'm not sure if there'd be any net gain. We are dealing with numbers (i.e. simplification) anyway.

 

For me, the current training system is by far the best I've seen in this game, and I think it works quite well.

 

[OhHoopedOne]

4 hours ago, xzar_monty said:

@OhHoopedOne: I see what you mean, but I'm not sure if what you suggest is really necessary. If the goal is to improve a player's first touch, it doesn't really matter how the game goes about it, as the result, such as it is, will simply be reflected in an attribute rise. Devising a multitude of training strategies would greatly increase the complexity, but I'm not sure if there'd be any net gain. We are dealing with numbers (i.e. simplification) anyway.

 

 

 

@HUNT3R

As I said, that was just one example but the ability to decide exactly how the player goes about improving is something that would add more depth and realism