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Jambo98

FM17 - The community formation experiment

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4-4-1-1 is a relatively common formation but I've been trying (and failing) to get one to work all year in FM, so I'll give it a go.

With regards to transfers, I've signed Gino Peruzzi because the squad desperately needed a right back, Ruben Botta for AMC (Plays for Lanus, has a release clause of £1.5m) and loaned Ryan Fraser for cover on the wings.  Got rid of Terranova because I didn't need all the centre backs, and cashed in on Lorenzo Pellegrini because I have a million identikit central midfielders and he had Shoots From Distance, which is a PPM I hate.

58a04dcd30ec8_U.S.SassuoloCalcio_TransferHistory.thumb.png.2c464441f2b7c1abafbf6087af465dc5.png

I've gone for a fairly simple system - using the Wide Midfielders on the flanks for the extra versatility - the one on the left sits narrower and creates space for the overlapping fullback, the one on the right simply has "Dribble More" selected - Politano has enjoyed this role so far in the Europa League.

58a04d5279d65_U.S.SassuoloCalcio_Overview-2.thumb.png.5ff732bc86e2c1128c17ced80b705497.png

Cruised past Stabaek 6-1 on aggregate and I've got a Latvian team in the next round.  Defrel has looked a big threat up front so far but I can't wait for Berardi to be fit again.

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Right that should be everyone who has asked given a formation now. Up to 27 people involved already! Some interesting shapes in that last batch in particular......

 

I have started playing around with my very narrow formation, throwing around a few ideas. Sensi looks like he could make a great Regista.......

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4-4-2 sweeper....

Guess i'll just accept my death :lol:

BTW: Should we only load the italian leagues?

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31 minutes ago, Scrench said:

4-4-2 sweeper....

Guess i'll just accept my death :lol:

BTW: Should we only load the italian leagues?

You can add any league you want.

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Thanks Jambo - 52210DM will be interesting to say the least!

Edited by apchivers

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3-5-2 Sweeper. Not a bad one as I was hoping for something I don't tend to use too often.

Cheers Jambo!

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Also, am I right in assuming that we can't mess around with any of the player positions. EG in my 3-5-2 it is a flat five, I can't move a midfielder into DM or AM etc?

Think it might have already been covered sorry, but just making sure.

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11 minutes ago, DH. said:

Also, am I right in assuming that we can't mess around with any of the player positions. EG in my 3-5-2 it is a flat five, I can't move a midfielder into DM or AM etc?

Think it might have already been covered sorry, but just making sure.

No you can't change the formation you were assigned, you can toy with Player Roles + Duties, Mentality, Team Shape, TI & PI.

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5122 Narrow

Finally have some time to play, I'm starting to get used to the formation. Here's what I got so far:

46d441c7bb959843684ee3277cc28821.png

A flat back 3, no stopper or cover. Really like the look of Acerbi, looks like a top CB. I'm starting w/o transfers, so Lirola and Peluso start for me, which isn't ideal. They have very important role and neither looks up for it. Can only hope Lirola develops well and fast.

For my midfield trio, seeing that in Stefano Sensi I have a baby-Andrea Pirlo, I've decided to play a Regista. Never given this role a long run, and when I played it, it was with anti-registas like Henderson or Weigl. Sensi is more of a "pure" regista with his Vision and Flair.

Upfront, the quest to get the best out of Berardi begins. It's a shame that I can't play him as an IF- he is a perfect fit for this role. I don't think he is lethal enough or creative enough to be as effective as a striker. My prefered partner to him is Matri, who is a poacher by trade, so I i guess he'd play a creator role for me. A Trequartista is where I start, haven't used that one in ages.

Counter mentality, as the formation seems to fit a deep defending. Flexible shape to keep things simple. No instructions to start with.

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On 2/11/2017 at 16:24, Jambo98 said:

@eriktous - 4123 Narrow

Funny, that. Last year I was reading the thread with a lot of interest, although I didn't participate myself. I was curious to try something out of my comfort zone as well, though, so I decided to 'unofficially' participate. To get a 'random' formation, I just looked at the table in the opening post and picked the first unassigned one, which happened to be the 4123 Narrow I got assigned now.

Reloading my save from FM16, I can see I got as far as September before I gave up. :lol: I remember I couldn't decide on which strategy to go with; either try reigning everybody in and pull the midfielders back through roles and PIs to have the MC imitate a DM and the AMCs imitate MCs as much as possible, or just go Gung-Ho and throw everything forward. I don't think either method brought much success.

Last night I loaded up a test save with Sassuolo to quickly play through a couple of matches and see if I could get some ideas. I left the roles and duties at their default settings when you choose the formation, and to my surprise it doesn't look too unbalanced on the pitch. Sure the midfield will get caught out of position and overrun at times, but generally the trio of MC and two AMCs plays some nice football. The five attacking players in the centre will usually suck in the opposition's full-backs, leaving a lot of space to be attacked by our full-backs, which they will do, even though they are set to automatic duty and on Balanced mentality; and they even have some intelligence, not both going forward at the same time, but only one with the other staying back. The Euro Cup qualifier and play-off against Vaduz and Olimpija Ljubljana were a cake-walk with 3-0 and 8-3 aggregate scores respectively, but the first league match ended in 2-2 after being 2-0 up.

I'll keep playing the test save for a while until I can get some more fixed ideas about how I want to play and what's possible with the squad.

Oh, and there will be goals, many goals, on either side of the pitch. :D

Sassuolo v Olimpija_ Analysis Teams-2.png

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I'm guessing this is fine, but just to check - are there any stipulations against improving the background staff if desired?

I assume two transfers is limited purely to incoming players?

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Last year's was good fun. I even tried recreating that 3-4-1-2 in FM17 but without as much luck. I don't know how much time exactly I'll have, but count me in for this one, Jambo.

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First draft before things start moving, been a while since i used a libero :D  I'm hoping to have sensi step in and be my kaizer playing defense splitting passes. the rest of the side is pretty much set up to keep possession and hopefully move up and down the pitch as a unit. will see how i get on during pre season if they are doing what i want of them.

U.S. Sassuolo_  Overview.png

 

not too sure about this dodgy 442 ive made xD

SK Sturm Graz v Sassuolo_ Analysis Teams.png

Edited by callamity

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I've always meant to sign up to the forum but just never really got round to it, however this definitely sounds interesting so if there is still space then count me in as well :thup:

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Sheez loads of new interest! I will try and get all the new formations drawn in the next hour or two. 

I think you have missed the point ChelseaJr? 

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8 minutes ago, Jambo98 said:

Sheez loads of new interest! I will try and get all the new formations drawn in the next hour or two. 

I think you have missed the point ChelseaJr? 

 
 

Yes, I did. :D I'm embarrassed :( Sassuolo is a team right? Can I still use 5-4-1 Diamond WB?

 

EDIT: oh man, just count me in :D And get me a formation quickly :D

Edited by ChelseaJr

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16 hours ago, AndySummers said:

I'm guessing this is fine, but just to check - are there any stipulations against improving the background staff if desired?

I assume two transfers is limited purely to incoming players?

Yup correct - you can do as you wish with regards to staff. Its just player transfers where we limit to 2 transfers and 1 loan 

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@Jambo98

Rule checks

my tactic is the 4411 (two DMs)

  1. what are the rules regarding in-match tweaks? i.e. 2-0 down at half time... presumably we still cannot make any structural changes to the team? (such as replace a DM with a Striker)
  2. in the 4411 both the amc and striker are central ... not that it makes much difference... but still within the same tactics... are we allowed to left/right adjust the position... e.g. instead of amc and stc ... amlc and strc

             sc

           amc

 

to

                 sc(rc)

       amc(lc)

 

 

 

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8 minutes ago, westy8chimp said:

@Jambo98

Rule checks

my tactic is the 4411 (two DMs)

  1. what are the rules regarding in-match tweaks? i.e. 2-0 down at half time... presumably we still cannot make any structural changes to the team? (such as replace a DM with a Striker)
  2. in the 4411 both the amc and striker are central ... not that it makes much difference... but still within the same tactics... are we allowed to left/right adjust the position... e.g. instead of amc and stc ... amlc and strc

             sc

           amc

 

to

                 sc(rc)

       amc(lc)

 

 

 

1) Correct. The formation must always remain the same. Part of the purpose of this experiment is proving that formation is not the be all and end all. At 2 nil down, what else can you do within the same formation to transition how your team plays? My bet is, quite a lot

2) Would say no - We are aiming to use the default formation "off the shelf" so has to be AMC and ST not AMRC and STLC etc 

 

One thing that has never come up, but i assume is common sense......if you get a red card, obviously you can move a player (eg move your AMC to LB if the LB is sent off) but you should not change the rest of the shape. 

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Ok so taking a break from doing the admin (will allocate those last 2 shortly!), i have finally got round to looking at some ideas for my narrow allocated formation (4321 DM Narrow) 

I am leaving standard mentality, as i nearly always do as a starting point on my tactics. Team shape here is interesting. I am a great believer in Very Fluid in terms of my overall approach to the game, and i am going with it here to try and encourage a little more freedom and more movement between the lines, in terms of fullbacks and the AMCs both being dual pupose. One thing that does strike me though, is that this formation may not be well suited to the vertical compactness which comes with Very Fluid - something for me to watch out for. 

The formation is somewhat suited to a high press, with such numbers in advanced spaces. The worry of course is that they are all narrow - who will press the fullbacks? I will try and use OI to mange that at first. To support my high press, i have gone with Push Higher Up, Close Down More and Prevent Short GK Distribution. I have also added Exploit the middle - it remains to be seen if this is overkill, since we will naturally do that with the volume of bodies, but i want to try and make sure we focus on the area we are strongest. As my roles and duties will show, i am not, for the moment, expecting flying wingbacks in my setup. 


For roles and duties, my primary / first stab (including ideal starting 11 - obviously Matri will be in for Berardi at first, and one of Pellegrini or Maganelli likely to fill in for Missiroli) 

af1fb5d226bc40178f9502d75175d959.png

I have split the FB duties, with Peluso being the stronger player and the holder being on his side, have given him the attack duty. RB is a weakness, and Peruzzi chose Spain over a move to me but i might still use one of my tranfers to bulk up that spot, perhaps with a defensively minded fullback type. 

As a few have noted, Sensi is a really tasty little creator. I have been experimenting with the Regista in another save, in a very different formation, but i love how it plays. I might need to teach him some PPMs but i want to give it a go. In front, we have my holding player in Duncan, and a bit of a runner in the BBM. Not totally settled on the third role / duty, and need to see how that plays out but in principle i like the balance of duties. I would normally have an attack duty for the third player but with the 2 x AMC i am less sure. 

For the front 3, i have a link man in the AM(s) where Evandro has been brought in, and a late arriving SS type to support my support duty striker. Will likely play around a lot with the striker role and duty as i learn. 

My secondary plan, lest Roy Hodgson come alone and try and man mark my Regista using a winger......., is to  move the playmaker into the MC strata. Simple swap between the playmaker and the holder in "positional" terms for when i believe there is more space. The Regista role can't be used in MC, so i use RPM instead

10b2281800eaa84f19163f26ef961eb2.png

And my 3rd shape, when i think the best place to get my creativity from is in the AMC strata, this time Evandro is the player who takes on that responsibility. 

9dc818619f4e575974af7bc678dbbfce.png

I will also probably need to do a version with an HB and attack duty wing backs, for times when width really is the only option. I will probably go with DLP(d) in the CM role for that shape, possibly with BWM alongside. 

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3232DM

Ooh, it's almost the same as last year's (and a backup formation in my second season back then, when I trialled dropping back the central midfield triangle against better sides). Last time out I went with a high, attacking, Fluid "we'll score one more than you" strategy, with two BWMs screening the back three behind a more advanced playmaker, so I want to do something as different from that as the formation will allow (and I don't think Sassuolo's personnel really suit that approach with a 3-5-2 variant anyway).

So, instead I'm going to attempt a last-year's-Leicester approach, turning the formation into a sort of 4-4-2 with the ball, going compact and deep without it, and aiming to hit on the counter.

With that in mind, so far I've got a mind to be Structured and Counter, and despite the innate lack of individual flair, I don't want to use strict playmakers. To drop into a four-man back line with the ball, one DM will be an HB, with the other a BWM(d) hopefully providing cover in front. Ahead will be a quasi-playmaker CM(s) and two not-quite DW widemen patrolling the flanks, one slightly more attacking than the other. As with Leicester, we'll have one harrying DF up front and one AF to act as a spearpoint. However, Letschert and to a lesser extent Ascerbi look like being decent on the ball, and with a little more movement in the back with the HB dropping in, I want to see what'll happen if I give one DC license to move out a little more on the ball.

So this:

Fn2zGoS.jpg

TIs: Drop Deeper (on top of Counter, this might be too deep, but I want to hang back on the 18-yard line and draw the opposition on)

PIs:

ML: Cross From Byline (I want him to be the more attacking of the two, though I might change my mind about that).

MR: Hold Position, Cross From Deep (and the reverse; the only difference between this and a DW is that a DW Dribbles More, which I'm not sure I want; the flanks are where we're weakest)

MC: Shoot Less Often, More Risky Passes (similar PIs to an AP but without the ball magnetism)

The biggest downsides may be personnel; both Defrei and Matri are off-the-shoulder players judging by the PPMs, and Berardi doesn't have the grit to play defensive forward, so it looks a little like a team of poachers up front. Sensi looks great as a playmaker, though.

Possible market browsing: hard-working support forward, better ML

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