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craiigman

One off game? Working out the kinks

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Not had a lot of time for FM past couple of years, but started a FMT with United as I kind of like their squad. Anyway, just played vs Bayern in a friendly with this, and got a 2-1 win. Probably a bit lucky, but stats looked decent after and watching on extensive it looked like it was doing okay, I'm just not too sure why, which is why I'm making this post.

So I started out with this:

bQ3g0iw.png

PI as follows:

GK - roll it out, FB's - sit narrower, CF - close down more. Was meant to put it on AMC as well but forgot.

I changed the DLP to a CM(D) and RPM to AP(S) during the game.

I've uploaded the pkm file of the game: https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B2QhuaaeWjUnZ0h6U1F0UzBOUUk (hope it works)

Just trying to learn that's all.

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In my eye's you're doing some really good things with this tactic but there are still a few improvements you could make here in this tactic.

Your team is really compressed and the two banks of 4 look hard to breakdown. The issues I can see you having with this team are in the offence. To me I see only one player getting in the box, your forward. Everyone else on the team is supporting and not doing any attacking or getting in the box. A suggestion would be to switch your AM(s) to an AM(A) or to an SS. then you'd have another player getting in the box to get on the end of crosses or have some combination play with the CF.

Your midfield 4 are really hardworking and compressed providing a good shield to the defence. However again I am thinking about your team going forward and see them possibly lacking attack power. The wingers are more worker and shuttlers rather than attackers.  That provides good cover for the fullbacks and helps maintain shape but could cost you when looking for a goal late in a game. Another thing to note is the role of Paul Pogba. I would think that a BBM would make more sense in this kind of formation rather than an RPM due to the BBM's tackling and their tendency to provide late runs into the box. If someone holding their position and creativity is what you're after then the RPM or AP(s) would be a good choice. 

This tactic looks like a fun one to try out and build. Cheers!

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6 hours ago, Cruyffsheirs said:

In my eye's you're doing some really good things with this tactic but there are still a few improvements you could make here in this tactic.

Your team is really compressed and the two banks of 4 look hard to breakdown. The issues I can see you having with this team are in the offence. To me I see only one player getting in the box, your forward. Everyone else on the team is supporting and not doing any attacking or getting in the box. A suggestion would be to switch your AM(s) to an AM(A) or to an SS. then you'd have another player getting in the box to get on the end of crosses or have some combination play with the CF.

Your midfield 4 are really hardworking and compressed providing a good shield to the defence. However again I am thinking about your team going forward and see them possibly lacking attack power. The wingers are more worker and shuttlers rather than attackers.  That provides good cover for the fullbacks and helps maintain shape but could cost you when looking for a goal late in a game. Another thing to note is the role of Paul Pogba. I would think that a BBM would make more sense in this kind of formation rather than an RPM due to the BBM's tackling and their tendency to provide late runs into the box. If someone holding their position and creativity is what you're after then the RPM or AP(s) would be a good choice. 

This tactic looks like a fun one to try out and build. Cheers!

What you're saying all makes sense, and that is also what I thought going in. I found Pogba wasn't great in the B2B role, but same for RPM, better when switched to AP, even on support.

As for getting into the box, I thought the same, I went for suport on AMC and CF as I didn't want to either isolate the CF or have too much of a gap between CM and AM. However as I'm playing on counter, it seems as soon as we got the ball, people were making forward runs, not as many as there could be, but enough to grab 2 goals vs Bayern.

Like I say, it worked here, but really I didn't think it should have, not a single player has an attack duty.

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@Rashidi didn't know if you could have a quick look and see what you thought of this? Also if I sub to your patreon do you give out tips and advice on tactics over there?

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16 hours ago, craiigman said:

What you're saying all makes sense, and that is also what I thought going in. I found Pogba wasn't great in the B2B role, but same for RPM, better when switched to AP, even on support.

As for getting into the box, I thought the same, I went for suport on AMC and CF as I didn't want to either isolate the CF or have too much of a gap between CM and AM. However as I'm playing on counter, it seems as soon as we got the ball, people were making forward runs, not as many as there could be, but enough to grab 2 goals vs Bayern.

Like I say, it worked here, but really I didn't think it should have, not a single player has an attack duty.

Pogba is an absolut BEAST playing as b2b, don't be fooled by that green circle.

Cheers,
Bitner 

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15 hours ago, Bitner said:

Pogba is an absolut BEAST playing as b2b, don't be fooled by that green circle.

Cheers,
Bitner 

Only said that as I tried him as B2B in game before and we wasn't that great. But I'll try it again with some other tweaks.

played next game vs Rennes, 0-0. Clean sheet is good and what I want. But yeah we had like 30 shots, most outside the box, not good. I haven't set this tactic up to have loads of shots either.

adjustments required!

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10 hours ago, craiigman said:

Only said that as I tried him as B2B in game before and we wasn't that great. But I'll try it again with some other tweaks.

played next game vs Rennes, 0-0. Clean sheet is good and what I want. But yeah we had like 30 shots, most outside the box, not good. I haven't set this tactic up to have loads of shots either.

adjustments required!

Hmm, for me he's working very well.

Cheers,
Bitner 

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On 06/02/2017 at 15:17, craiigman said:

@Rashidi didn't know if you could have a quick look and see what you thought of this? Also if I sub to your patreon do you give out tips and advice on tactics over there?

@craiigmanThere's more than just tips and advice on Patreon. I have a Discord Channel which is moderated by other players who have been personally coached by me. Plus I do stuff there including talks, and specials for my Patrons.

There is something clearly an issue when I look at your tactic. I do think that your system has shown a good deal of thought, but there is one thing you should ask yourself. Why stick to counter?

This tactic is very solid defensively, almost too solid. Structured creates a distinction in duties that means that players are more likely to sing different tunes within the same team. The good thing is that you have so many...which means that while the support duties are all having the same range of risk tolerance with some differences, they are all still within the same band -  They are all not going to take that much risk. If risk were a range between 1-20 with 10 being 50-50, then more than half your team (support duties) are all taking a low risk approach to the game. And this affects everything, their choice of passes, their movements etc. And that will show in the game.

You also have two playmakers in the same team sitting side by side, it isn't necessarily a bad thing, but I would consider one or two more attacking duties.  The thing with your system is this, you are going to find it hard to pull sides apart, you get width, but its not very attacking in orientation. The fullbacks on support will join in the fray, only when you control the final third. By then, the AI is back defending in numbers. And while all this is happening your front player is basically pulling back... You could afford to get one flank to be a bit more attacking, and you could also try getting Martial on an attacking role. When you use a role that is attacking in the final third, you have a player to test the opponents defensive line. I have to say the system is fantastic defensively, unfortunately you have gone to the other extreme of keeping possession. 

Think of Mentality as Risk and Shape as something that affects the number of people who support the team through transitions. Now transitions are affected by mentality, roles and duties too. In your system since you are playing on such a low risk mentality, by the time any transitions do break the AI is already in a position to defend. In my latest videos on Torino, not sure if you have seen them, but I have been getting my sides to play on Overload. They go out create havoc for 20 minutes, then I sit back on Control/Structured, because I want my attacking players to break their lines as they go forward to get an equaliser. 

The game today is no longer one where we take a tactic, run with it. It's possible to play a tactic the same way for every match in a season. No issue about it, however I love feeling like a manager on the sidelines. And thats what SI want, so they designed the game around a tactical system that involves us making concrete decisions that can swing a game.

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So, @Rashidi would you generically say, that playing with a fluid team shape (where fluid or very fluid) is advisable when looking to break a team down, and a structured shape, would be more amenable to defending a lead, and looking to exploit space left by the opposition to counter? 

I understand that there could be different strategies for different scenarios, but as a starting point, would the above be correct?

I've tuned into your Youtube vids for a while now (now have now subscribed to your Patreon page), and my understanding of the game has improved, in particular the idea of team shape. Although I now understand the theory more, putting that into practice and getting the results to show for it, is taking a little more time!

Edited by fras

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