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Hi,

I am a total loser in fm and, after more than year trying to learn, I'm really really close to give up. The word that best describes how I feel is astonished.

I've been playing fm since 01-02. Always successfully. I never paid special attention to tactics. I used 442, 4231 or 433 and adapted mentality according to the situation of the match (from standard to control/attacking if I needed to score and from standard to counter/defensive if I wanted to hold a lead). Never watched a single match: commentary and key highlights. I never paid attention to what was happening on the pitch.

This is how I played the game for more than 10 years and this is how I've seen any of my friends play the game. We won, of course we lost, but, the most important, we had fun.

My surprise came with fm15. All my friends who used to play fm gave up playing because they couldn't play it successfully and a) they didn't have time to learn and b) they didn't want to spent time learning. To be honest, I just played a few seasons with fm15 but I had no major problem.

My nightmare started with fm16. Since december 15 I haven't played a single real save. I can't play this game. I always get sacked or stop playing before it happens, when it is already unavoidable.

I've read guides and came here for help which it seems I can't use to improve for some reason I don't understand yet. But that's not the point now.

My question is: how do people play this game nowadays? When I say people, I'm not talking about members of this community, who I assume are a minority compared to players all around the world. How people play this game successfully? What are they doing that I'm not? Or, what I'm doing that they not? Are they actually watching matches? Is there anybody who still plays the game only text commentary? Is it posible to do?

 

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It has got a lot harder over the last few versions. I know that people say that it is more realistic. This is good. However, should you have to learn advanced tactics in order to be able to play the game with any success?

Getting sacked is part of real life. However, this is a game not real life. I understand that there are many players who want a really difficult game(many of those on this forum). There are also many who want to be able to have success with a little less time commitment. This game is no longer relaxing.

There needs to be some sort of difficulty level in this game.

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10 minutes ago, henryzz said:

It has got a lot harder over the last few versions. I know that people say that it is more realistic. This is good. However, should you have to learn advanced tactics in order to be able to play the game with any success?

Getting sacked is part of real life. However, this is a game not real life. I understand that there are many players who want a really difficult game(many of those on this forum). There are also many who want to be able to have success with a little less time commitment. This game is no longer relaxing.

There needs to be some sort of difficulty level in this game.

Harder? Hard is not the word, mate, it's imposible to play for me.  Literally, not posible to play.

I can't believe this is that difficult. The fact is that thousands of copies of fm are sold every year. This can't be that difficult.

It's me then? Am I stupid? Do people really watch matches and have enough knowledge of football and fm to make informed decisions which I can't? How is it posible? It's because I'm stupid or the world is full of tactical magicians? Or there is a different way to play the game?

I really don't understand what's happening with this game and me. I don't get it. 

 

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36 minutes ago, looping said:

My question is: how do people play this game nowadays? When I say people, I'm not talking about members of this community, who I assume are a minority compared to players all around the world. How people play this game successfully? What are they doing that I'm not? Or, what I'm doing that they not? Are they actually watching matches? Is there anybody who still plays the game only text commentary? Is it posible to do?

When I was younger I used to play like that, race through matches, get through seasons asap, win some, lose some but generally have more success than failure.

That was around the late 90s and then as life intervened I had less time and was less successful.  I gave up for a while in the early 2000s only playing sporadically then I made a choice.  I realised I either had to give it up completely or make an effort to understand it better which meant dedicating more time to it at the expense of other games/TV.  I chose to make more effort which meant slowing down, taking more time.  I watched every match on what was extended highlights back then, now I watch every match on comprehensive.

Fun isn't about winning or losing its about enjoying the ride and that means it doesn't matter how fast you get through a match or a season.  So what if someone else plays 20 matches an hour and finishes a season in a day as long as I enjoy the time I spend playing.

I get through on average about 3/4 matches an hour but really I rarely sit down and play for a full hour due to what goes on around you.  Today for example I switched FM on at around 9am and its ran in the background all day but in that time I've only played 5 matches.  I'm hoping to get through the last three matches of the season before I go to bed but I might not and I'm comfortable with that.

 

EDIT

I've said it a lot over the years on the forum but you get out of FM what you put in.  If someone just scrapes the surface I'm not surprised when they end up dissatisfied, put more into it and you get the rewards.

 

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7 minutes ago, Cougar2010 said:

When I was younger I used to play like that, race through matches, get through seasons asap, win some, lose some but generally have more success than failure.

That was around the late 90s and then as life intervened I had less time and was less successful.  I gave up for a while in the early 2000s only playing sporadically then I made a choice.  I realised I either had to give it up completely or make an effort to understand it better which meant dedicating more time to it at the expense of other games/TV.  I chose to make more effort which meant slowing down, taking more time.  I watched every match on what was extended highlights back then, now I watch every match on comprehensive.

Fun isn't about winning or losing its about enjoying the ride and that means it doesn't matter how fast you get through a match or a season.  So what if someone else plays 20 matches an hour and finishes a season in a day as long as I enjoy the time I spend playing.

I get through on average about 3/4 matches an hour but really I rarely sit down and play for a full hour due to what goes on around you.  Today for example I switched FM on at around 9am and its ran in the background all day but in that time I've only played 5 matches.  I'm hoping to get through the last three matches of the season before I go to bed but I might not and I'm comfortable with that.

 

Are all the players around the world doing that? Are they watching matches and tweaking? Are they doing succesfully? How can they do that? Do they read guides? Where their knowledge comes from?  Any player in the world has the ability to play the game like you and other successfull players do? Are they able to watch matches, spot issues and fix them? Without reading guides? Without coming here for help? How on earth can they do that? Are they millenials and have a superior mind? 

I agree fun isn't about winning or losing. When a game is too easy I also lose interest. But mate, I haven't played a single real save. A single one! This is imposible to be fun. And you can check how much time I spent trying to learn.

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So why play?

Only you can decide of what you find fun and if you don't find FM fun you need to make a decision.  You either do something else or alter what you do within FM to try & improve it.

In terms of other players its only my opinion but I suspect a lot cheat in some way to achieve success.  The ones that don't I would say have taken time to understand what is happening either through guides or watching at least some of the matches.  A lot of users have been playing this game for years and for a lot of older players FM might be the only game they play.

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10 minutes ago, stevio11 said:

I'm 56 and love the game, the harder the better. Whats the point in it if you just want to win every game, go play FIFA if you want that.

I didn't say I want to win every game. Have you read anything? I just want to play the game without being sacked in every save.

8 minutes ago, Cougar2010 said:

So why play?

Only you can decide of what you find fun and if you don't find FM fun you need to make a decision.  You either do something else or alter what you do within FM to try & improve it.

In terms of other players its only my opinion but I suspect a lot cheat in some way to achieve success.  The ones that don't I would say have taken time to understand what is happening either through guides or watching at least some of the matches.  A lot of users have been playing this game for years and for a lot of older players FM might be the only game they play.

You are right. That's why I said I'm very close to give up. I also realised I either had to give it up completely or make an effort to understand it better which meant dedicating more time to it at the expense of other games/TV.  I chose to make more effort which meant slowing down, taking more time.  I've been (still) watching games on full, paying attention to every detail, following advice given here (despite some opinions, I may say).

But there is no progress. I'm sacked in every save. That's why I ask. I'm an average person, with average understanding and a better than average knowledge of fm. I know the theory better than average, with limitations, but better than average. I know what every role does. I partially understand some concepts about shape and mentality. For instance. I've watched all Rashidi's videos. I've read the guides and hundreds of posts here. I've read Cleon's series.

Do most of the players understand all this? If they don't, how are they able to play? Are they superintelligent and extremely gifted and I'm terribly stupid?

 

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Looping, I'm saying you want to and it was just a general comment, not aimed at you. I understand where you are coming at as I struggled last year for a long time but then found a team and a tactic and really got into it, I never won a trophy but managed a few promotions and brought along some very good players.

This game I got sacked from Man utd after one season(don't ask) so took on Middlesboro who were relegated that season and now after 2 seasons we are back in the prem, stick with it and find that team that's waiting for your tactic

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3 minutes ago, stevio11 said:

Looping, I'm saying you want to and it was just a general comment, not aimed at you. I understand where you are coming at as I struggled last year for a long time but then found a team and a tactic and really got into it, I never won a trophy but managed a few promotions and brought along some very good players.

This game I got sacked from Man utd after one season(don't ask) so took on Middlesboro who were relegated that season and now after 2 seasons we are back in the prem, stick with it and find that team that's waiting for your tactic

Ok, if it's a general comment I understand what you mean.

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1 minute ago, looping said:

I've been (still) watching games on full, paying attention to every detail, following advice given here (despite some opinions, I may say).

I've read a couple of your threads in the tactics forum and what stood out for me is some people giving bad advice.  They've given their opinions and told you "do this" but they are managing a different team in a different save against different opposition, they can't possibly know what you should do.

The people that give you good advice are the ones that help you understand the basics and give you the tools to make the choices yourself, see Rashidi for example.

The two most important parts of FM are:

A) Understanding what is happening on the pitch &

B) Understanding what the instructions you give (Position, role, duty, TIs, PIs & OIs) actually do.

 

From there its a case of making choices and watching what happens.  Sometimes we make good choices, sometimes bad ones, sometimes its a gamble but we understand the risk.

 

1 minute ago, looping said:

But there is no progress. I'm sacked in every save. That's why I ask. I'm an average person, with average understanding and a better than average knowledge of fm. I know the theory better than average, with limitations, but better than average. I know what every role does. I partially understand some concepts about shape and mentality. For instance.

Do most of the players understand all this? If they don't, how are they able to play? Are they superintelligent and extremely gifted and I'm terribly stupid?

So where do you go from here?

What do you feel goes wrong aside from not winning?

I'm always happy to look at saves/PKMs and give my opinion but you would need to upload them somewhere.

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So @looping the reason why your losing is due to bad tactics. So we understand you don't want to watch videos and guides and all that but if you don't want to put in the work required to get good then you won't. 

 

Now lets fix your problem, post your tactics in the tactics forum, screenshots are prefer. And we can help you and guide you. The game is really simple, persons just make it hard. 

 

The foundation hasn't changed and once you understand that you will realize how easy the game is. 

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One thing I would suggest tactically is to ignore TIs, PIs & OIs.

Stick to positions, roles, duties, team mentality & team shape (structured/flexible etc).  Get comfortable with those options so you know what to expect from each.

Personally I almost never give PIs, OIs I use sparingly while TIs I do use but tend to start with a blank canvas each match adding TIs during a match if I feel I need to.

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I'd argue the guys that are indepth into tactics and tweaking that, they report but a section of the player base. It's not that you can't play the game in simple ways here. You can holiday an let the ass man running match days completely. You can put up a simple thing and run with it, as long as it sound. But further you go back, it didn't really matter. Defensive issues meant that space was there almost no matter what, both from play and set pieces, which could save you the additionally day. It's not just a game of tactics. Arguably it's a lot less a game of tactics than it's ever been in a sense.... the way that a large amount of players were playing old iterations meant that they could score goals even if they were outplayed. Draw an arrow from your AMC in between two central forwards,... he would never get picked up, etc.. It only is if you are into "super tactics" that see you finishing top of the pile with worse teams (which give a wrong impression), or if there is something off. There is still pressure put on SI from tactical players to add pressing schemes/patterns, more control over positioning, etc. The stuff that you get from the tactical forums is in concept mostly beyond AI opponents. This starts right with picks in formation... to my knowledge and playing experience, AI picks that solely based on which formations it has edited into the db.

My impression is that, generally the majority players are big time successful. How they do that is another matter. Download tactics seem as popular as ever, but then tactically this isn't science either (UI and feedback are debatable though). Don't see the sack, and your team improves on each season anyhow, and so does the performances. This is backed up by frustration posts, that when delved deeper, reveal the "issues" wouldn't run nearly as deep. It's typically a couple few matches, or point drops, or losses that end in rage (and a lot of funny theories). This isn't a thread about you, but I consider you, looping, to be a rather special case, and looking at the last thread, that was closed precisely of that. You started the same way as a year before, and ended up there, with people trying to help ending just as frustrated as you. I had argued you were perhaps good off keeping it extremely simple, and trying the assistant outright perhaps on FMC. Zero to lose if you want to play this in some way. Try it a couple of times, if you want gauge quickly, apply to clubs and just hit "holiday" thereafter. Surely the assistant can underperform too, as there is and always will be random elements. Injuries, matches being rather tight affairs for the most part as the most common win margins are lowly, that sort of stuff. As for text commentary, think Dafuge does that.

PS: I have saves where I tank too. Recently did a fun one where I cheat... edited Klose back to his former home club in the lower tiers of Germany. First half of the season went well, after the break things went down the shitter, including Klose missing due to injuries and him not scoring in like 8 matches, and we missed the promotion play-offs. But knowing you could start this and be guaranteed success, I would never start this up again. Totally pointless exercise. Naturally, if every save doesn't go anywhere... not even meeting expectations, that's another thing.
 

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I guess it depends on who you start the game as? Are they expecting to win the league at a canter etc?

I start out at my club (Bristol City) so I have an idea of the players & expectations are mid-table mediocrity.

I seemingly play the game as you do, I only view key highlights, no replays & just allow the game to wiz through & I always tend to make substitutions at about 55-60mins.

I only have one game saved on FM17 & I'm currently at January 1st 2029!! I moved to Burnley in 2019/20 & have been here ever since although I've applied for endless amounts of jobs I've only been offered a few & not taken them.

I am getting bored now but don't see the point in starting a new game until the January transfer window update has been released.

I've been relegated, promoted & gained Euro League qualification but I've not won a cup throughout.

I do put the players through training but only change it when I get a message to say they've improved or not been able to do what I've asked & I adjust the team tactics just when I try a new formation. Nothing complicated.

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I used to struggle a lot on this game and I've been on the tactics forum asking for help before. I was prone to over complicate things and I'm sure many people who play this game are. The truth is, the more simple you lay out a tactic, the easier it is to identify problems. Now when I want to play a certain formation all i do is google it and the amount of websites that cover that specific formation are astronomical. Then I try and replicate that in the tactics creator.  The majority of these sites go in extreme detail but it's actually an aston villa fan site that I used to make make my last three tactics simply because they didn't include an entire essay on how to build a tactic but instead they provided the absolute bread and butter basics.  Take the 4231 for example, I read this http://7500toholte.sbnation.com/2016/1/31/10878956/football-tactics-basics-the-4-2-3-1-formation-explained and I had a successful tactic created in minutes. There's a ton of other sites too but some go into too much detail for my liking which isn't really needed unless you're trying to replicate a specific style of play. I usually lurk these forums to see how other people implement certain things as well.

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In answer to the original question...I watch the games!

I'm not sure how you expect success when success is determined on the pitch and you don't watch that part???

As others have said...the game has evolved.  The days or watching commentary only and sticking with the same 11 every match are gone

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2 hours ago, Cougar2010 said:

I've read a couple of your threads in the tactics forum and what stood out for me is some people giving bad advice.  They've given their opinions and told you "do this" but they are managing a different team in a different save against different opposition, they can't possibly know what you should do.

The people that give you good advice are the ones that help you understand the basics and give you the tools to make the choices yourself, see Rashidi for example.

The two most important parts of FM are:

A) Understanding what is happening on the pitch &

B) Understanding what the instructions you give (Position, role, duty, TIs, PIs & OIs) actually do.

 

From there its a case of making choices and watching what happens.  Sometimes we make good choices, sometimes bad ones, sometimes its a gamble but we understand the risk.

 

So where do you go from here?

What do you feel goes wrong aside from not winning?

I'm always happy to look at saves/PKMs and give my opinion but you would need to upload them somewhere.

 

2 hours ago, Cougar2010 said:

One thing I would suggest tactically is to ignore TIs, PIs & OIs.

Stick to positions, roles, duties, team mentality & team shape (structured/flexible etc).  Get comfortable with those options so you know what to expect from each.

Personally I almost never give PIs, OIs I use sparingly while TIs I do use but tend to start with a blank canvas each match adding TIs during a match if I feel I need to.

My tactics have been widely discussed in the Tactics forum.  I think my tactics are not that bad. My problem comes when match starts; once I face the ME, I can't identify what's going wrong so I can fix nothing. 
If you take a look at my last thread titled How to become a total failure, you'll see what I mean. I posted a video of a goal conceded and people's advice was my def line too deep. I can't see that. Simply, I can't. I don't know how to explain it, but I can't. I'm not saying it is not happening, I'm saying I don't see it. On the contrary, I strongly believe my def line was too deep because I trust more experienced players but I don't realize on my own, I don't know how they see it, I can't identify what shows my def line was too deep.
If anybody still wants to help me, must be aware of it. I understand it's very frustrating both for me and whoever wants to help, but I'm not doing it on purpose.

I'd like to open a new thread, because I have new ideas and it seems there are still people who want to help, but at this moment I can't. Not because I don't want but because I think I'm not allowed. My last thread was closed and I was told to re read all my previous threads and advice given and not to open a thread for a month or so. 
I have already done that. In fact I had already done that in the past, so this was just doing it again. I think I tried to apply every single one advice given. Even when contradictory, I tried one and the opposite. I even tried to completely stick to wwwfan's twelve step guide.
In the last two weeks I've been sacked 5 times.
I think if I open a new thread it will be immediately closed because what they want me to show is progress and I can't do that. They really think I'm dismissing advice and refusing what other people say and that's the reason why I'm struggling. Well, I have to say this is not true because I'm following any advice given and I'm open to changes but I have no idea how to show this if it is not with some progress. I'm still losing so... I don't know.
I'll ask for permission to open a new thread because I'd rather not to post for a while than being banned but I'm not very optimistic...

 

2 hours ago, Svenc said:

I'd argue the guys that are indepth into tactics and tweaking that, they report but a section of the player base. It's not that you can't play the game in simple ways here. You can holiday an let the ass man running match days completely. You can put up a simple thing and run with it, as long as it sound. But further you go back, it didn't really matter. Defensive issues meant that space was there almost no matter what, both from play and set pieces, which could save you the additionally day. It's not just a game of tactics. Arguably it's a lot less a game of tactics than it's ever been in a sense.... the way that a large amount of players were playing old iterations meant that they could score goals even if they were outplayed. Draw an arrow from your AMC in between two central forwards,... he would never get picked up, etc.. It only is if you are into "super tactics" that see you finishing top of the pile with worse teams (which give a wrong impression), or if there is something off. There is still pressure put on SI from tactical players to add pressing schemes/patterns, more control over positioning, etc. The stuff that you get from the tactical forums is in concept mostly beyond AI opponents. This starts right with picks in formation... to my knowledge and playing experience, AI picks that solely based on which formations it has edited into the db.

My impression is that, generally the majority players are big time successful. How they do that is another matter. Download tactics seem as popular as ever, but then tactically this isn't science either. Don't see the sack, and your team improves on each season anyhow, and so does the performances. This is backed up by frustration posts, that when delved deeper, reveal the "issues" wouldn't run nearly as deep. It's typically a couple few matches, or point drops, or losses that end in rage (and a lot of funny theories). This isn't a thread about you, but I consider you, looping, to be a rather special case, and looking at the last thread, that was closed precisely of that. You started the same way as a year before, and ended up there, with people trying to help ending just as frustrated as you. I had argued you were perhaps good off keeping it extremely simple, and trying the assistant outright perhaps on FM Classic. Zero to lose if you still want to play this in some way. Don't do it once, try it a couple of times. Surely the assistant can underperform too, as there is and always will be random elements. Injuries, matches being rather tight affairs for the most part as the most common win margins are typically lowly, that sort of stuff. As for text commentary, think Dafuge does that.

PS: I have saves where I tank too. Recently did a fun one where I cheat... edited Klose back to his former home club in the lower tiers of Germany. First half of the season went well, after the break things went down the shitter, including Klose missing due to injuries and him not scoring in like 8 matches, and we missed the promotion play-offs. But knowing you could start this and be guaranteed success, I would never start this up again. Totally pointless exercise. Naturally, if every save doesn't go anywhere... not even meeting expectations, that's another thing.
 

Yes, I can let the ass man running match days, but we'll both agree this is like cheating, this is not how the game is intended to be played. Do most of the people play the game letting the ass man running match days? If that's the case, which certainly is not my opinion, then SI has a big problem because it means the game is almost unplayable they way it is intended to be for the majority of users. I want to be clear at this point: I want to play the game the same you or anyone who posted here play. Normal, fun, realistic results.. 
In any of my threads it has been said many times anyone can play this game, anyone can spot issues, etc... Well, I want to be one of this anyone. That simple. I think it is understandable.

I even tried downloading a tactic (at least 4-5 different tactics) and I still lose.

I understand the game is not as easy as it was some years ago, but mate, it's more than a year. As I said before, my tactics are not that terrible. They are balanced, they have no big mistakes, I have a clear plan and a clear idea on how to play. I think my problem is not with the TC, it is with ME, which I can't read so I can't make informed decisions. This sends us to your post, suggesting to let the ass man running match days, but again, it sounds me like cheating.

2 hours ago, Tipps said:

I guess it depends on who you start the game as? Are they expecting to win the league at a canter etc?

I start out at my club (Bristol City) so I have an idea of the players & expectations are mid-table mediocrity.

I seemingly play the game as you do, I only view key highlights, no replays & just allow the game to wiz through & I always tend to make substitutions at about 55-60mins.

I only have one game saved on FM17 & I'm currently at January 1st 2029!! I moved to Burnley in 2019/20 & have been here ever since although I've applied for endless amounts of jobs I've only been offered a few & not taken them.

I am getting bored now but don't see the point in starting a new game until the January transfer window update has been released.

I've been relegated, promoted & gained Euro League qualification but I've not won a cup throughout.

I do put the players through training but only change it when I get a message to say they've improved or not been able to do what I've asked & I adjust the team tactics just when I try a new formation. Nothing complicated.

Are you underachieving? Are you beating expectations? I've used many different teams and I always underperform, if the board allows me to end the season. 
When I'm not sacked in the first season, things always follow the same pattern: I start well, overachieving and, at some point, I start losing, losing and losing. I may end the season in a decent position because of my great initial results, but the next season results will get worse and worse until I'm sacked. I've shown it in any of my threads.

1 hour ago, Dave is here said:

I used to struggle a lot on this game and I've been on the tactics forum asking for help before. I was prone to over complicate things and I'm sure many people who play this game are. The truth is, the more simple you lay out a tactic, the easier it is to identify problems. Now when I want to play a certain formation all i do is google it and the amount of websites that cover that specific formation are astronomical. Then I try and replicate that in the tactics creator.  The majority of these sites go in extreme detail but it's actually an aston villa fan site that I used to make make my last three tactics simply because they didn't include an entire essay on how to build a tactic but instead they provided the absolute bread and butter basics.  Take the 4231 for example, I read this http://7500toholte.sbnation.com/2016/1/31/10878956/football-tactics-basics-the-4-2-3-1-formation-explained and I had a successful tactic created in minutes. There's a ton of other sites too but some go into too much detail for my liking which isn't really needed unless you're trying to replicate a specific style of play. I usually lurk these forums to see how other people implement certain things as well.

I agree the more simple a tactic is, the easier to identify problems, but, as I said before, I think my problem is not with the TC, it is with ME, which I can't read so I can't make informed decisions.
This website you refer is good and I'll give a read. 

1 hour ago, cpfcfm2009 said:

In answer to the original question...I watch the games!

I'm not sure how you expect success when success is determined on the pitch and you don't watch that part???

As others have said...the game has evolved.  The days or watching commentary only and sticking with the same 11 every match are gone

Congratulations.

You are able to watch matches, spot issues and fix them. This is the point where I fail.  I'd like to do that, but my problem is precisely with the ME, which I can't read so I can't make informed decisions.

 

Thanks for your answers guys.

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@looping

Ok thats a start, you think your problem is understanding what is happening on the pitch.

I'll start with what I know which is comprehensive highlights.  These differ from the full match as its cutting out chunks of non-events which perhaps makes it easier to identify problems.

Match flow - This is what you need to identify first, which team is in control?  Watching on extended or comprehensive highlights you can tell this maybe easier as its the team doing the attacking in the highlights. 

 

If your team is in control and doing most of the attacking next step is to look at what is being created and the type of shots/chances.  Are they getting shots? creating chances? Are they having too many long shots? 

 

If your team is defending a lot then the opposition is in control and you need to do something to turn it around.  If its early in the half it could be down to team talks and you may choose to ride it out for 10-15mins to see how the match settles if they aren't creating good chances.  If it doesn't settle then you need to look at what isn't working.  Possession & pass completion is my first port of call.  If the opposition have too much of the ball then you consider putting more pressure on them but the risk is your defence might lose its shape.  If pass completion is poor then the ball is being given away a lot, options for me include shorter passing if I have bodies in midfield, retain possession or even direct the ball into certain areas.  The same thing won't work every match though, maybe your striker is just being outplayed and can't get hold of the ball to lay the foundations for an attack, maybe your defenders are under pressure and just clear the ball rather than looking for a pass.

 

Away from the tactical side take time to get to know the players.  Look at the reports to see their strengths & weaknesses, look at the roles to see which they perform best at but also watch them on the pitch to see how they behave.

As an example I'm currently playing a 4141 with a CM(a) at MCR who I want to push forward and get into the box during attacking.  Looking at my squad I have a MC/AMC with good speed, technique, attacking threat etc who looks ideal for that role but on the pitch he wants the ball into his feet and doesn't get forward as much as others in the same role.  So on paper he looked ideal for that role but in practice I've learned he is far better & more suited to a PM role.

 

 

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Read the roles and picture it in your mind how it'll be on the pitch. Do the same with player instructions and tactics. Some will work, some won't. Watch the match it takes time but you can see what is working or not then adjust, you will see the players gradually performing your way or not. Understand attributes you need to picture the player being able too carry out the instruction.

 

Watch a game like you would watch a real live match. Do not look too much into Match Stats they can mislead you, just use the main ones such Possession Stats eg., as a guide  (I only look at time left at a real match I can see whats going on with my eyes I don't need stats to tell me). Watch the game in full. If you like and understand Football you can translate the flow then use the ''Shouts'' and adjust tactics accordingly.

FM can be daunting to many new players and as it becomes more complex increasingly so. I'm lucky to have grown with it so the additions with each edition haven't been so great I buy every two years. Although I have had a long break between 1999-2008 and 2008-2012. I have never stopped watching Football regularly in over 30 years.  

I always play from the bottom, learn your way through, The teams appear far more willing to follow your instructions. And their abilities are easier to read. Do you know a League where your favourite tactics are more likely to work? Play a league you are familiar with. I have never understood the MLS squad and transfer rules so avoid it.  South American Clubs play a different style to me so I never manage their

The 'Windows Key'' is my most used button. It means I can run on full match while popping back and fore to check progress, while I work, surf the Web etc. I cannot any longer concentrate solely on a Game so always have something else to do while playing FM, watching TV, Cooking, Babysitting, FM would fry my brain in an hour without something to distract me from it while playing it.

If a Game is becoming a chore and no longer enjoyable then I would take a break from it, is a Game worth the hassle ?

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I can't believe people are not having fun.  I have turned a 4 million dollar team into a 50+ million dollar team in 3 seasons.  

Yet my team beats top quality sides in the uefa cup.  Yes this season is the underdog season and I love it.

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2 hours ago, looping said:

 

My tactics have been widely discussed in the Tactics forum.  I think my tactics are not that bad. My problem comes when match starts; once I face the ME, I can't identify what's going wrong so I can fix nothing. 
If you take a look at my last thread titled How to become a total failure, you'll see what I mean. I posted a video of a goal conceded and people's advice was my def line too deep. I can't see that. Simply, I can't. I don't know how to explain it, but I can't. I'm not saying it is not happening, I'm saying I don't see it. On the contrary, I strongly believe my def line was too deep because I trust more experienced players but I don't realize on my own, I don't know how they see it, I can't identify what shows my def line was too deep.
If anybody still wants to help me, must be aware of it. I understand it's very frustrating both for me and whoever wants to help, but I'm not doing it on purpose.

I'd like to open a new thread, because I have new ideas and it seems there are still people who want to help, but at this moment I can't. Not because I don't want but because I think I'm not allowed. My last thread was closed and I was told to re read all my previous threads and advice given and not to open a thread for a month or so. 
I have already done that. In fact I had already done that in the past, so this was just doing it again. I think I tried to apply every single one advice given. Even when contradictory, I tried one and the opposite. I even tried to completely stick to wwwfan's twelve step guide.
In the last two weeks I've been sacked 5 times.
I think if I open a new thread it will be immediately closed because what they want me to show is progress and I can't do that. They really think I'm dismissing advice and refusing what other people say and that's the reason why I'm struggling. Well, I have to say this is not true because I'm following any advice given and I'm open to changes but I have no idea how to show this if it is not with some progress. I'm still losing so... I don't know.
I'll ask for permission to open a new thread because I'd rather not to post for a while than being banned but I'm not very optimistic...

 

Yes, I can let the ass man running match days, but we'll both agree this is like cheating, this is not how the game is intended to be played. Do most of the people play the game letting the ass man running match days? If that's the case, which certainly is not my opinion, then SI has a big problem because it means the game is almost unplayable they way it is intended to be for the majority of users. I want to be clear at this point: I want to play the game the same you or anyone who posted here play. Normal, fun, realistic results.. 
In any of my threads it has been said many times anyone can play this game, anyone can spot issues, etc... Well, I want to be one of this anyone. That simple. I think it is understandable.

I even tried downloading a tactic (at least 4-5 different tactics) and I still lose.

I understand the game is not as easy as it was some years ago, but mate, it's more than a year. As I said before, my tactics are not that terrible. They are balanced, they have no big mistakes, I have a clear plan and a clear idea on how to play. I think my problem is not with the TC, it is with ME, which I can't read so I can't make informed decisions. This sends us to your post, suggesting to let the ass man running match days, but again, it sounds me like cheating.

Are you underachieving? Are you beating expectations? I've used many different teams and I always underperform, if the board allows me to end the season. 
When I'm not sacked in the first season, things always follow the same pattern: I start well, overachieving and, at some point, I start losing, losing and losing. I may end the season in a decent position because of my great initial results, but the next season results will get worse and worse until I'm sacked. I've shown it in any of my threads.

I agree the more simple a tactic is, the easier to identify problems, but, as I said before, I think my problem is not with the TC, it is with ME, which I can't read so I can't make informed decisions.
This website you refer is good and I'll give a read. 

Congratulations.

You are able to watch matches, spot issues and fix them. This is the point where I fail.  I'd like to do that, but my problem is precisely with the ME, which I can't read so I can't make informed decisions.

 

Thanks for your answers guys.

I'll tell you what sometimes helps me when I'm going through a bit of a sticky patch, is hold a team meeting before your coach or whoever suggests it & just give them a bit of encouragement, it's worked for me in the past.

With regards to me over achieving or under achieving, when I start with Bristol City they tend to only want you to avoid relegation from The Championship & that's easy to do & then why I moved to Burnley it was a step up for me into the Premier League but I only had to avoid relegation & while I achieved that in my first season I then got relegated but managed to keep most of my better players & got promoted straight away. Every year after has been to slightly improve to where I'm expected to finish in the top half now although I've qualified for the Europa League but I can't get a move to a bigger club no matter how many times I've applied over the years for the underachieving Liverpool & Tottenham jobs!!

What's your transfer policy? When I start a new game I scout every potential wonderkid off of the many lists that are available to find online for all the different positions & I make a move for any that I consider cheap or that are playing in Brazil or Argentina (countries that maybe tempted to want to come to England) that way you are likely to have good players for years to come at a cheap price & I make sure all of these players stay on my shortlist indefinitely so if they become available years down the line, I might be in a position to pick them up. I also refuse to scout or sign anyone 30 or over & once players get to 30 I remove them from my shortlists!!

I also try to make sure that anyone that is any good, that plays for me has a contract with at least 2 years remaining on it, if they won't sign a new one with 2 years remaining I try to cash in on them so I never lose a valuable player for nothing!!

Also keep an eye on potential signings who's contracts are running out, you can sign them a lot cheaper & the same can be said for transfer listed players who maybe available for half of their value, you can pick up some real bargains from the massive clubs (Barcelona, Real Madrid, Man City, Man Utd, PSG, Bayern, Liverpool & Chelsea) as they will want to free up wages for players not playing that are unhappy.

Also, any players interesting other clubs, don't accept the first or 2nd bids, they will come back & even while at Burnley I have managed to sell a couple of players for over £30m & even up to £50m.

If any players want a minimum fee release clause put into their contracts, make sure you put that to as high as you can, while you won't always get that, it gives you room for bargaining.

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Perhaps it would be worthwhile to reconsider your approach to the game as the potential complexity of it can be overwhelming.  I happen to use the in-game editor to allow me to play the game the way I want to.  I have no interest in building a team by buying and selling players.  I'm a former youth coach so my passion is developing young players.  I need time to be able to see the fruits of my efforts in the first team squad and table.  So, I give myself a long contract and make myself unsackable.  Some owners have little patience but it is not unknown for clubs to be patient with coaches that need time to turn a team around.  My local club team gave one coach a 5-year contract and stuck with him even though the results were not good.   We lost several good players who didn't want to play for him.  After his contract ran out the owners had the good sense to give the job to the person who was instrumental in developing our highly regarded youth academy and the last two seasons we finished at the top of our table.  So, what I do in my save is not unrealistic as far as I am concerned.  In real life some clubs will fire a coach after a few months, and some clubs will award multi-year contracts to a coach and stick with them.

I tell the board I want to develop young players and to use our youth program, and I need time to do that.  I agitate for better training facilities and coaching staff.  Over time the results begin to show up. 

As far as tactics and managing the game - if your players are markedly weaker than the opposition then you will lose most of the time and tweaking tactics won't change that.  If your squad is better than the opposition then you will win more often unless you do some really dumb things tactically.  In real life some coaches prowl the sidelines and scream themselves hoarse, and some coaches sit and observe and make most of the adjustments at halftime.  What is your style?  Both styles can be successful in real life.

I wouldn't start my FM coaching career with a high pressure situation, such as the English Premier League, and I would try to start with a club and league that I felt I had an understanding of.  I'm also not ashamed to tweak the game a bit to allow myself to learn and play the way I want to.  When I feel proficient enough I can try a more challenging situation.  Isn't that the way most of us learn?  Start with something manageable, master that, then take the next step.

 

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2 hours ago, Longhorn said:

As far as tactics and managing the game - if your players are markedly weaker than the opposition then you will lose most of the time and tweaking tactics won't change that.  If your squad is better than the opposition then you will win more often unless you do some really dumb things tactically.

.

 

Thanks for bringing those up, same as others stuff about squad management. This is, and never has been a game of purely tactics. looping has demonstrated time and time again that the tactics sub forums, in a way, seems like the worst place to be for his. I have no idea why he is sacked using downloads, or following step by step guides, virtually every time, unless his in-match decision making was random, panicky, and atrocious, but then I was always under the impression there was something missing in all of those threads. That is, aside of the constant switches, occasionally weird decisions and over obsessing about totally random stuff. If one still were to get additionally possible points out of match management, and there are, the ME at the core to me is much easier to follow than football. If you can follow football, you should be easily be able to follow this. Which is because players basically have fixed defensive position they leave or don't in possession mainly based on the jobs you assign them. And retreat into when the ball is dropped again. If you want to test this, give every player a defend duty, and in positions where there isn't one such, a "hold position" PI and see how they move en bloc, just as they are seen on the tactics screen, into the opposition half, rather than making forward runs of those defensive positions. And after that, change again. Stuff never fundamentally changes until stuff is switched. It's a computer game, not real football, where everything can flow fluently and unpredictably into one another, and I doubt managers can change patterns virtually on the fly by simply hitting a mouse button. If you have seen one transition from defense to attack, you've at the core seen them all [of your own team, mind, opponents change throughout matches). Good point by Cougar here... you can focus on roles and duties like 100%, done. TIs and PIs as they are micro tweaks for a style have the potential to turn this into a Rube Goldberg kind of puzzle, where depending on the players nothing ever much mixes. And as some of them aren't much documented (work ball into box not purely about ranged attempts, but also decreasing the likelyhood for crosses flying in], they can lead to frustration too.

However, what was demonstrated was also completely skewed expectations as for own squads too, such as keeping loads of clean sheets with mid-table teams (and then going with 4-4-2 shapes, which in particular as in the game don't particular pack the own half as central forwards don't do much defensively), and probably more, so that is worth bringing up. It's not hard to overachieve, even by keeping it simple. Whilst it would be an alarming sign if every player would steamroll to success on every save, this is demonstrated every year, to me anyways. Even by newcomers who aren't much accustomed to the idiosyncrasies of the game, and its special vocabulary (mentality, etc.). Unfortunately there's always exploits out there that give a totally skewed perception how the game is meant to interact, even to regulars [and before anybody jumps on me how that's the only way they would get enjoyment out of this -- if you're exploiting the tactical module up to the point that you can click-click-Champions-League first season with Burnley and click-click-steamroll Chelski et all with Westham, you could also edit outright, the effect, bar a psychological one, is the same]. But yes... unless you do something totally horrible and totally random including switches made left and right... just no way that you're sacked every time. Going text commentary might actually be a good idea!

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Is there anybody who still plays the game only text commentary?

 

As far as I aware, Dafuge plays this way, with a wide diamond tactic used for many years, and is very successful. Check out his career threads.

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This thread was not intended to be a tactic help one but it is slowly becoming. If anyone, for any reason, thinks there is anything wrong about this, let me (us) know. I may suggest to move it to tactical forum, but other people know better.

I started a new save. Still in preseason but it looks good. It seems I'm going to have a good starting run. I'll let you know.

 

 

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15 minutes ago, looping said:

I started a new save. Still in preseason but it looks good. It seems I'm going to have a good starting run. I'll let you know.

Famous last words :D

How about sharing some of the info from your save or uploading it if you can.

Whats the save setup?

Which team have you gone?

Maybe a pic of your tactics and how the friendlies have gone + what transfers you made.

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i have felt this exact way. I loved FM12 then the next few i bought i didnt enjoy, they seemed way too awkward too set up tactics, i mean i would set something up that looked great but then it woulnt work and i could not work out why

i came on here a few times and ask the usual questions and got the usual answers...are your players tired etc

i want too win. i know im going too lose. i get that...

The way i moved forward was using the tactics forum on here and specifically using the same guys tactics in 2016 and now 2017.

yeah i didnt create the tactics myself, but i sign the players and do the team talks etc i still enjoying bringing youngsters through so im happy with how i play it.

if tactics is the only thing your struggling with read some of the posts in the tactics forum and find something you like and use that. It helped me start enjoying the newer versions.

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2 hours ago, Cougar2010 said:

Famous last words :D

How about sharing some of the info from your save or uploading it if you can.

Whats the save setup?

Which team have you gone?

Maybe a pic of your tactics and how the friendlies have gone + what transfers you made.

Ok. Here you are.

First off: yes, I sticked to my preferred fm team and my preferred fm tactic: Malaga 4411. But, I have already implemented various changes and I'm open to change the formation, if needed. This is just a starting point.

Before we get into analyzing matches, I want to be sure my previous decisions in the TC are not wrong. The aim of this post is to check it.

This is my tactic and my preferred 11

5898f37f41090_Malaga_Vistageneral.thumb.png.83674713c80bc091ac9241eee4e37f9b.png

 

There are many new players: Costil, Navarro, Mauricio, Planas and Belotti.

GK: Costil

5898f3cc7f142_BenoitCostil_OverviewProfile.thumb.png.41b818a96a2c70acbf6eda4b11eb0a7b.png

Nothing fancy here. I want a simple gk. I don't want him to waste silly amounts of possession so I'll tell him to roll it out, distribute to centerbacks and slow pace down

Right Fullback: Navarro

5898f42c0489d_XimoNavarro_OverviewProfile.thumb.png.4ddfb832ca773eaaadc81c14f8cd74b3.png

He is a decent fullback for my level. I gave him a support duy, behind keko, who is more an attacking winger (later more on this). A bit concerned by his ppm gets forward whenever posible, because I'm not expecting him to overlap much because he is behind keko.

 

Centerbacks: Llorente and Mauricio

5898f4d6e2b49_DiegoLlorente_OverviewProfile.thumb.png.30832f4511773448f8ad8a400ceb055f.png5898f4daa1a94_Mauricio_OverviewProfile.thumb.png.83eda4a04a29c78ef1a6b2fe6feb5c21.png

Again, nothing fancy here. They seem to be 2 good centerbacks for my level but they have ppm's which make absolutely no sense so I'll teach them to forget all this load of nonsense.

 

Left fullback: Planas

5898f57b3e53b_CarlesPlanas_OverviewProfile.thumb.png.8b45cdc822c551a043d95e2c68efbe21.png

He is a good fullback. I gave him an attack duty so I expect a good number of overlaps. Concerned by his acceleration. Get forward whenever posible could be also a good ppm to teach. A bit concerned because there is no midfielder to cover his forward runs.

 

Central Midfielder Defend: Camacho.

5898f5a38a10c_IgnacioCamacho_OverviewProfile.thumb.png.2932560beb41645bc9abae1a2241bee2.png

He is probably my best player. A defensive beast with a decent vision and passing. He can play any defensive role in midfield. A bit concerned by his ppm marks opponent tightly because he may lose his position for this reason. I want him to cover Keko and be sure his attacking duty doesn't leave gaps.

 

Roaming Playmaker: Recio

5898f5f89f992_Recio_OverviewProfile.thumb.png.ddff39f23d77ae2163e5ad24e139203d.png

Excellent playmaker attributes, terrible ppm's. I'm not sure about giving him a playmaker role so it's a thing to pay attention. My idea is to have somebody in midfield to string passes together. Link defense with midfield and provie some late runs (despite a RPM can't get further forward) is what I expect from him.  His lack of passing variety will later be compensated with my number 10 (I hope). Not sure about this role.

Right wide midfielder: Keko

5898f6c15e255_Keko_OverviewProfile.thumb.png.2cff9fae93fe06a20679396a04c33abf.png

A perfect winger, attributes and ppm's. I gave him a wide midfielder role but with Run wide, dribble more and cross more often PI to make him play like a winger. I don't use the winger role because https://www.addictedtofm.com/fm13-more-on-the-4411/ . 

You can see the hugs line ppm. This is the reason why I didn't give Navarro an attacking duty. A fullback on attack is expected to overlap so he needs somebody opening space in front of him. If Keko hugs the line, where is going Navarro to overlap? To the stand? In addition, Keko is a great winger, let's exploit his talent playing his role. I'd rather give Navarro a support role and teaching him not to get forward as soon as posible.

Left Wide Midfielder: Jony

5898f7dab360c_Jony_OverviewProfile.thumb.png.46ad92f51a84f06569e2c92a0e353e82.png

A good and complete wing. I use the wide midfielder role following the same logic before explained (a wide midfielder is more defensively responsible than a winger). In addition, in this case, I expect overlaps from Planas (left fullback attack duty), so I need to open space. Where is any fullback to overlap a winger? To the stand again? 

In addition, Jony has good vision and even finishing, so he can become an all around player, playing as a winger, as a playmaker and as an inside forward depending on the situation. The reasons of the role and duty are obvious, but I may give him PI cut inside. I won't do that at this moment, but a good idea to keep in mind.

Trequartista: Juanpi

5898f8db09259_Juanpi_OverviewProfile.thumb.png.706715b106b3557adac33c4a533a7e1c.png

The perfect definition of a trequartista (nº10). He has good attributes and ppm's (comes deep to get the ball is perfect). I expect some  overlaps with Recio: Recio gets the ball, Juanpi comes deep to get it, Recio passes the ball to Juanpi, Recio bombs forward due to his ppm (and despite his role, I may add).

I choosed the Trequarista role for an additional reason. Recio is a playmaker but he plays short and simple passes. With a Trequartista, I have another playmaker who will try risky passes, something that Recio won't do more often than not. A bit concerned by defending PI given to a trequartista.

Deep lying forward. Belotti.

5898f9a9275c7_AndreaBelotti_OverviewProfile.thumb.png.0f6dd1f360f5f3cb8b0bea62989fe0da.png

He is a superstar for my level, I don't know how I managed to sign him. Perfect striker, maybe he lacks a bit of vision, but I'm not going to complain. I gave him a dlf(at) role because I want him to be a goal threat (attacking duty) but I don't want him isolated (dlf). I can also use a CF but a Cf tries risky passes and Belotti lacks the vision needed to do that. 

 

Mentality, Shape and Team Instructions.

Mentality is about risk, so it is something it's going to change depending on the situation. To start, I'll use counter mentality, basically because I think it's going to be the mentality that best suit most of the matches, but I want to manage risk via mentality changing it during matches.

Shape is about creative freedom and space. Structured shapes increase space and reduce creative freedom. Fluid shapes the opposite. Shape is also situational so I'll change it depending on the situation, but I need an starting point.

I can certainly be mistaken, but I use the following rules:

- In terms of creative freedom, if you use playmaker role/s, you can play Structured shape. If you have 0 playmaker roles, then fluid.

- In terms of space, if your formation creates natural gaps and you do nothing to counteract this (shorter passing, for instance), then go fluid. If you have an attacking duty lone striker, you may also go fluid.

Well, in my case I have 2 playmaker roles so I need to control the creative freedom but I have a lone striker on attack duty, despite he is a deep lying forward that even on attack duty will come deep to get the ball (to some extent). Not sure about the shape. I could leave it on flexible.

 

Team Instructions.

I want my team to play selectively and methodically at back. I don't want my defenders to hoof the ball because I want my playmakers to be involved. I have 2 playmaker roles, it makes no sense to overpass them with long passes, so I use Play out the defence shout. I will also reduce risky passes to both of my fullbacks.

The biggest gap created by my formation is between my def line and midfield so I'll try to reduce this space with slightly higher defence.

 

Time to come back to shape. I've just said:

I want my team to play selectively and methodically at back. It means I want my players to follow my instructions (play out the defence, less risky passes). The more structured shape, the more my players will follow my instructions (less through balls, in this case).

i'll try to reduce this space with slightly higher defence. I've just done something about the space between my defence and midfield.

This two last reasons make me think that the best choice is Structured shape.

 

 

 

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@looping

Ok, too much, too detailed, you are micro managing before you have even played a match and trying to perfect everything.  If/when it goes wrong you'll get frustrated, blame the tweaks and tweak to correct.

Basically you are getting bogged down in the details rather than looking at the bigger picture.

Like I said in an earlier post lose all the TIs & PIs, focus on positions, roles, duties, mentality and shape (The basics).

 

The first question is where are Malaga expected to finish in the league?  ie what type of club are they? European challengers? mid table? fighting relegation?

Ok now we move onto the formation, I like it on paper it has balance and looks ok.  What are the strengths of the formation?  What are the weaknesses?

Now look at the other teams - What formations are you expecting to come up against?  How does your 4411 stack up against them?  Is your 4411 inherently strong or weak against those formations?

Finally you need an alternative, a plan B for when the 4411 isn't working or for when you come up against formations that perform well against a 4411.

 

You need to know all of the above before you even consider slotting players in or playing a match.

 

 

 

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Football is a very simple game that is why it has Worldwide appeal. It only gets complicated when you try to ''Phil Neville it'' then it becomes boring. The nerds love the stats and facts and since the Internet and 24-hour analysis they have become fans too. 

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Can we not turn this into another one of your tactical threads, Looping? Especially considering that it's not on topic and not the correct forum. It has ventured far off the initial purpose of the thread, which was to find out how people play the game.

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I hate pple that think all these "rules" are the way to play the game. Using playmakers, then play structured. Where did you hear stupid rubbish like that from? The tools are there. Different teams, different strokes, different players, different ways to play. Rules like that are unhelpful and if you have lots of them, you'd soon start thinking you win/lose because of them. Cast away the rules, use your brain, it's not x+y=z, use your football knowledge, watch the matches, experiment and adapt as the situations arise. That's the way to play the game.

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21 minutes ago, toon army 06 said:

With counter why slow pace down? Get the GK playing it quick probably to the wings, allow both Full backs to overlap maybe put them on attack.

This is not good advice.

The point of the thread is to help Looping understand what is happening and let him make his own choices for better or worse.

Giving specific advice saying do X, Y & Z doesn't help anyone with a tactical issue as you aren't playing their save and have no/limited knowledge of many of the factors involved.

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Well, I would like to answer your former question. My way of playing is over the years still the same. It is almost always ONE club development 15 - 20 seasons. Developing my youth to the best possible and scouting some youths and cheap palyers.

Only thing I change over the years is tactic. Usually it takes me two - three months until I find out how and what to play. But I never spend too much time tinkering with it.

I use individual player instructions very rarely, and if so, then only if there is one really key player with lots of creative freedom. I developed from 4-1-3-2 narrow to 4-3-1-2 narrow alongside classical 4 4 2 and 4 2 3 1 wide.

But what I am aiming to say is, that in every edition my first few saves usually end up sacking me :D

And after that the fortunes turn, or I just find the way to do it properly. I used to download tactic, tried 2 - 3 games and switched to mine, as I felt it is not so good and entertaining. 

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Man oh man ... i am astonished about the way you look at this game. I really am. You see ... FM is not just a game, it's a hardcore simulation. Now, how could you even be consistent playing it since you don't even watch the games? I mean ... it's like complaining about not being able to drive when you don't even try to get in the car. You gotta watch your games, you got to learn and master every tactical concept of this game and only then you can  to have any sort of  for consistent good results. Keep in mind that this is a hardcore simulation game, not an arcade one, so it goes without saying that you gotta get involved as much as you can if you really want to get any joy out of it.

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First off, having 20+ years experience playing the game I dont envy anyone coming to FM new. 

Its a complicated, multifaceted game and despite everyones preoccupation with tatics you have to get EVERYTHING right, most of the time to enjoy sustained success.

Many parts of the game remain extremely poorly explained which is staggering considering how long its been around, I know of no other game where so much misinformation exists to set the unwary reader down the wrong path.

So you have my sympathies Looping.

My advice would be to back off the tactical analysis, your 4411 looks ok, maybe have alternates for when you are chasing the game or wish to protect a lead which can be simple variations of your base tactic.

Once you are broadly satisfied with your tatics I would really focus on team/player morale. How do they feel at the moment, are they playing as a team (do you know how to check?), what team talk would be best for the upcoming game, what do I say if we're losing at half time? What are the implications of the post match team talk, is complacency an issue, should I take the pressure off. 

Am I praising those players who are in good form, warning those who are not. Am I acknowledging players training well,  do I allow sloppy training to go unpunished. 

Do my coaches have sufficient discipline etc, etc, etc.

This is the GAME and has much more of a bearing on performance than 1 or 2 team instructions. 

Play the long game, analyze seasons not individual games. Key or comprehensive highlights dont matter, over a season you'll notice one  or two patterns you like & dont like. How do we influence this tactically to see more of the good and less of the bad?

Over time the tactic will take care of itself, but more importantly you'll learning to be a good manager, keeping a happy and motivated squad who'll run through brick walls for you.

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I've been playing FM since the original CM1 came out. My usual way to play is to start with my local childhood team of Welling United, get sacked after a season or so, start a new save with a league one/two side and do the same with them and then move on to other games. This year has been different and having  pondered on your question for a little while I am pretty sure that the light bulb moment was two fold,. Firstly as Cougar has been saying, I put on the comprehensive highlights and watch the game as I would a normal game. All of a sudden I could see  where things were going wrong. Players positioning and defensive frailties really started to jump out at me. Secondly I did spend a lot of time reading the tactics forum and other websites. Before I would just use the default ones out of the box.  Now I have a much better understanding of how to change what I am seeing in the match engine. 

So as usual I started with Welling, got sacked half way through the season, went to Ebbsfleet got sacked at the end of the season, took over York and got promoted to League 2 and won the FA Trophy, left them in the middle of the next season sitting comfortably in the play off places and went to Reading. We won the championship the next season  which was probably the most satisfactory season I have ever played in FM. I had made quite a few changes in the team over the summer and had moved to a new tactic. By Christmas we were languishing in the relegation places and the expectation of the play off places seemed a long way off. By the end of the season we won the league and had a fa cup semi final. I won't talk about the current season in the Premiership :-(

So my experience has been as others have said. Do the leg work, be patient and it will come to you.

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I still play commentary only and like to think I am relatively successful , certainly successful enough that I still really enjoy the game after over 20 years worth of iterations.

I usually have one main tactic that I'll save and always try to apply to the team I'm managing, it will always end up with slight variations depending on opposition or the standard of team I am etc but it never changes drastically as I think it's quite balanced so slight tweaks here and there are only ever needed.

I certainly try not to over think things and have found my approach does the job I need it to do.

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12 hours ago, HUNT3R said:

Can we not turn this into another one of your tactical threads, Looping? Especially considering that it's not on topic and not the correct forum. It has ventured far off the initial purpose of the thread, which was to find out how people play the game.

 

23 hours ago, looping said:

This thread was not intended to be a tactic help one but it is slowly becoming. If anyone, for any reason, thinks there is anything wrong about this, let me (us) know. I may suggest to move it to tactical forum, but other people know better.

 

 

 

What do you suggest then? Sincerely and frankly, it seems there are people who still want to help. Or at least try to help. My only purpose is to play the game and be part of the community. This is a private club so if I'm not welcome you have an easy solution. Don't get it wrong, I really want to be part of the community and I'll do whatever is needed until I'm trusted. Even not posting for a while. Just let me know but say it openly so I can act accordingly.

When I receive an answer I'll resume this thread, if I'm allowed.

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1 hour ago, looping said:

 

What do you suggest then? Sincerely and frankly, it seems there are people who still want to help. Or at least try to help. My only purpose is to play the game and be part of the community. This is a private club so if I'm not welcome you have an easy solution. Don't get it wrong, I really want to be part of the community and I'll do whatever is needed until I'm trusted. Even not posting for a while. Just let me know but say it openly so I can act accordingly.

When I receive an answer I'll resume this thread, if I'm allowed.

People are going to say the same things that everyone has been saying. You DO NOT take advice of people making it blatantly clear what is wrong. You don't make any progress even though people are amazingly clear as to what your issues are. They spell everything out, just stopping short of telling you EXACTLY which button to press, and you make no progress at all.

Almost exactly a year ago, you receive this advice: http://www.fm-base.co.uk/forum/football-manager-2016-tactics/354676-tactical-problems.html#post2954675

Now, AGAIN, you shut yourself off to solid advice. Advice about the balance of a tactic. Again you do the exact thing you did a year ago. Again, I would give you the same advice as WJ did here. Your balance is quite obviously off. It's all one big loop.

Re-read your old threads. You'll save a lot of time.

 

YOU created the thread asking people how THEY play. This has now turned into tactical discussion, which isn't part of the forum. Instead of taking it to the tactics forum (where they ask specifically to you, that you show progress before creating yet another thread) rather take it back to your old threads and actually take the advice you've already been given (more than once) on board. You received excellent advice last time out, only for you to ignore it. Again.

 

Thread closed as it has ventured far off topic and into familiar, ignored territory.

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