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Franky's HUSTLER Tactic for FM 17 - updated for patch 17.3 P130 W115 D13 L2

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40 minutes ago, Baron Greenback said:

Sorry, should've been clearer. I mean the default setting for when you are favourites at home. Mixed passing etc. 

I don't think there's a lot in it but I can only go by my testing process, in which less goals were conceded when setting passing to shorter...... not a huge difference defensively but enough for me to implement the suggestion within the tactic usage formula. As for your question, the tactic usage formula is the same for v2 and v3.

PS. I'm now also leaving ALL set-piece takers to the AI to decide as I've found it makes no difference. In fact if anything, the AI chooses the best option I reckon. I will update the original post with this once I receive sufficient feedback and remove v2.

Edited by Franky.

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I've just finished playing 2 games using the v3 tactic with my previous modifications. 1 Win and 1 Draw. My observations are:

1) Little bit more offensive in the final third.

2) More fluid play, and patient buildup. I am frequently getting "scintilating stuff", "now that's soccer" in text commentary. Definitely more pleasing to watch. I am using shorter passing.

3) Central Defenders keep closing down like their a** on fire. This actually splits my defense open.

4) Dominating more in the match than v2.

Edited by lichborne

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Franky,

Is there any way to make it little bit more stronger defensively? I won't mind if it decreases offence somewhat as this tactic is already very offensive.

I am thinking of dropping the holding CM in DM position and give him DM(D) duty.

Edited by lichborne

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1 minute ago, lichborne said:

Franky,

Is there any way to make it little bit more stronger defensively. I won't mind if it decreases offence somewhat as this tactic is already very offensive.

As you're already using shorter passing, the only thing I can suggest is to lower the team mentality...... will be a case of trial and error, really. A good idea is to save a home fixture where your opponents are pre-match favourites and use it for testing purposes. You can then trial any changes you make in that fixture. It's similar to what I do myself. My standard tactic test process is playing with Man United at home to Arsenal. We are pre-match favourites but any weaknesses in the tactic can be exploited by the opposition plus if the tactic isn't performing, I know it's the tactic and not the players not being good enough. I use this template to create a tactic that will easily beat the opposition. The next step is to test it out defensively and that's what I've suggested for you.......... let us know your findings if you go this route..

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21 minutes ago, Franky. said:

As you're already using shorter passing, the only thing I can suggest is to lower the team mentality...... will be a case of trial and error, really. A good idea is to save a home fixture where your opponents are pre-match favourites and use it for testing purposes. You can then trial any changes you make in that fixture. It's similar to what I do myself. My standard tactic test process is playing with Man United at home to Arsenal. We are pre-match favourites but any weaknesses in the tactic can be exploited by the opposition plus if the tactic isn't performing, I know it's the tactic and not the players not being good enough. I use this template to create a tactic that will easily beat the opposition. The next step is to test it out defensively and that's what I've suggested for you.......... let us know your findings if you go this route..

I usually don't manage giants. I will test it in a home fixture in my current long term save as you suggested. I know my players inside out so I will get to know whether it's the tactic or my players. I will try to test tomorrow, feeling really sleepy now.

Played 1 more game using v3. I was losing to Portsmouth by 1-2 in HT. In 65 mins, I've changed my passing to Mixed and won the game 4-3. With Mixed passing selected. the central defenders are playing more defense splitting long passes which is actually very deadly if you have fast strikers with decent first touch and off the ball attributes.

v3 looks promising. It actually compensates your somewhat weaker defense with superior offence.

With decent players in all positions I really like the play in this tactic. One touch pass and move football. 75% of my goals were scored like this.

Edited by lichborne

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This is probably a daft question but I take it the standard version and contain version are now redundant?

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Been using this for a good few games now. I forget how many exactly but I think its an improvement on the whole. I don't think I'm going to feel the need to swap it for anything different unless a new version of Ghosts comes along, and even then I'd be very reluctant to change. If it ain't broke, don't fix it....

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I've got a question if I may? I've seen a few times where a striker is bearing down on goal from the channels and a square ball across the box would be met by an unmarked player facing a practically open goal but he shoots instead, often into the side netting. Would the PPM of looks for the pass rather than shooting help here or totally ruin the tactic? I ask because shoot less often PI is already in place for all 3 front players.

Edited by Baron Greenback

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48 minutes ago, Baron Greenback said:

I've got a question if I may? I've seen a few times where a striker is bearing down on goal from the channels and a square ball across the box would be met by an unmarked player facing a practically open goal but he shoots instead, often into the side netting. Would the PPM of looks for the pass rather than shooting help here or totally ruin the tactic? I ask because shoot less often PI is already in place for all 3 front players.

I've never had a striker with that PPM so can't be sure but I think you could be right..... although the downside could be that in a different situation where he's in the better position to score, he might pass it to a team mate not so well positioned and so ruin a goal scoring opportunity. For this reason, I only advise for a player to be trained for this particular PPM if his finishing is less than 12 (in the top division).

 

1 hour ago, Baron Greenback said:

Been using this for a good few games now. I forget how many exactly but I think its an improvement on the whole. I don't think I'm going to feel the need to swap it for anything different unless a new version of Ghosts comes along, and even then I'd be very reluctant to change. If it ain't broke, don't fix it....

Yes, I'm finding the same thing and would be hard pressed to create anything better. HUSTLER v3 is without doubt my best tactic on FM 17 and is more dominating than the others. I'm currently in my 6th season in the Premier League with Wycombe and have a media prediction of 3rd so a decent side but even so, after a 1-0 defeat to Man United in the Charity Shield, have played 15 matches in all competitions, winning 14 and drawing one whilst dominating every game, even the defeat to United. The screenshot below is from one of those recent games.......

4-0_vs_Real_-_HUSTLER_v3.jpgadult image hostcertificity.com

Edited by Franky.

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It's probably made worse for me by low teamwork stats for my players. I'll hold back from potentially ruining my players and wait until I'm in a higher division where I can see how I get on with a higher calibre of strikers

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I need to ask again as its confusing me. In the instructions for Hustler v3 it says anything other than favourites at home then change passing to shorter.   So I read this is as use Hustler v3 away against Celtic with an attacking mentality. Surely thats suicide in the SPFL Premiership.  It  doesn't make sense.

Do we not use the standard and contain versions anymore?

Edited by Praha06

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Well having decided to go verbatim with what is in the OP this is how I'm getting on. Not bad at all.  The 4-3 defeat against Celtic could easily have been 10-4 for us but we miss an incredible amount of chances, not just in that game.  Strange pattern of scoring 5 then 3 then 5 then 3 and so on in the run since following the instructions precisely.

Screen Shot 2017-05-04 at 20.47.30.png

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1 hour ago, Praha06 said:

Well having decided to go verbatim with what is in the OP this is how I'm getting on. Not bad at all.  The 4-3 defeat against Celtic could easily have been 10-4 for us but we miss an incredible amount of chances, not just in that game.  Strange pattern of scoring 5 then 3 then 5 then 3 and so on in the run since following the instructions precisely.

Screen Shot 2017-05-04 at 20.47.30.png

Glad you've answered your own question, saves me doing it :D..... I'm also finding v3 outscores all previous versions plus all of my previous tactics...... this IS the master tactic as far as I'm concerned (compared to my other tactics) and I really don't think I can better it.

I've also added a couple of lines to the original post................


Leave ALL set-piece takers to the AI. It usually makes the best decision.

PPM training for the DLF - comes deep to get ball.

Edited by Franky.

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The football that this tactic produces is poetry in motion.  Such a joy to watch!  By far one of the best tactics ives used in any version of FM!

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23 hours ago, Baron Greenback said:

Your work here is done Franky! What's next? Do you get into playing long saves or are you done once you've perfected the tactics?

I'm into my 6th season in the Premier League with Wycombe but have rebooted Premier League season one with HUSTLER v3. This is going to be my long term save over the summer when I get time to play.

 

3 hours ago, Praha06 said:

The football that this tactic produces is poetry in motion.  Such a joy to watch!  By far one of the best tactics ives used in any version of FM!

Good to hear you are enjoying it. I have a question though for everyone using HUSTLER v3....... personally, I'm not happy with the 'Contain' setting with shorter passing and wing backs on defend duty to see out games as I find it invites pressure and is not as consistent as it has been in previous versions/patches of FM. I seem to be conceding regularly on this setting so it's obviously not doing what it's meant to. The questions is, are you guys experiencing the same as me?...... and if so, any suggestions to see games out?...... I'm going to play for a bit without this setting and just move wing backs to support duty when the opposition go to an attacking style with no other changes at all and see how that goes.

EDIT: Only played a few matches without contain setting and I'm finding it to be much better. It keeps the opposition on the back foot from an attacking perspective and is defensively more sound as well because we are no longer inviting pressure. The contain setting definitely does not work so I've no hesitation in removing it from the tactic usage formula. Original post has been updated and it's now as follows (ultra simplified :D) ..............
 

TACTIC USAGE

To get the best out of the HUSTLER tactic, you need to use it according to the match situation and your objectives. There will be 5 scenarios you will face so I advise the following............

Scenario 1. Pre match favourite at home - start with the tactic as it is.

2. All other matches - set passing to shorter.

No changes until half-time, after which...........

3. Need to score  - default (i.e. mixed passing).

4. Don't need to score and just want to see out the game - set passing to shorter.

5. Pre match favourites at home, leading at half time, are certain the opposition are unlikely to get back into the game and want to score more goals to boost your goal difference - default (i.e. mixed passing).

VERY IMPORTANT: Make sure to keep the opponent formation box open in the corner of the screen and set your wing backs to support duty WHENEVER your opponent goes to an attacking style unless you need to score, in which case leave them on attack duty. You'll actually score more goals doing this as your attacking play will then be more concentrated through the middle with slightly less wing play and because the opposition are playing an attacking style, you'll be able to carve them open more easily as there will be plenty of gaps to exploit centrally in the final third.

RECAP: The tactic usage formula is extremely simple and there's only two things you ever need to do, depending on match situation and your objective....... set passing to shorter and wing backs to support duty. Just make sure to use it according to the above advice and I'm confident you can't go wrong.

Edited by Franky.

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1 hour ago, Franky. said:

I'm into my 6th season in the Premier League with Wycombe but have rebooted Premier League season one with HUSTLER v3. This is going to be my long term save over the summer when I get time to play.

 

Good to hear you are enjoying it. I have a question though for everyone using HUSTLER v3....... personally, I'm not happy with the 'Contain' setting with shorter passing and wing backs on defend duty to see out games as I find it invites pressure and is not as consistent as it has been in previous versions/patches of FM. I seem to be conceding regularly on this setting so it's obviously not doing what it's meant to. The questions is, are you guys experiencing the same as me?...... and if so, any suggestions to see games out?...... I'm going to play for a bit without this setting and just move wing backs to support duty when the opposition go to an attacking style with no other changes at all and see how that goes.

EDIT: Only played a few matches without contain setting and I'm finding it to be much better. It keeps the opposition on the back foot from an attacking perspective and is defensively more sound as well because we are no longer inviting pressure. The contain setting definitely does not work so I've no hesitation in removing it from the tactic usage formula. Original post has been updated and it's now as follows (ultra simplified :D) ..............
 

TACTIC USAGE

To get the best out of the HUSTLER tactic, you need to use it according to the match situation and your objectives. There will be 5 scenarios you will face so I advise the following............

Scenario 1. Pre match favourite at home - start with the tactic as it is.

2. All other matches - set passing to shorter.

No changes until half-time, after which...........

3. Need to score  - default (i.e. mixed passing).

4. Don't need to score and just want to see out the game - set passing to shorter.

5. Pre match favourites at home, leading at half time, are certain the opposition are unlikely to get back into the game and want to score more goals to boost your goal difference - default (i.e. mixed passing).

VERY IMPORTANT: Make sure to keep the opponent formation box open in the corner of the screen and set your wing backs to support duty WHENEVER your opponent goes to an attacking style unless you need to score, in which case leave them on attack duty. You'll actually score more goals doing this as your attacking play will then be more concentrated through the middle with slightly less wing play and because the opposition are playing an attacking style, you'll be able to carve them open more easily as there will be plenty of gaps to exploit centrally in the final third.

RECAP: The tactic usage formula is extremely simple and there's only two things you ever need to do, depending on match situation and your objective....... set passing to shorter and wing backs to support duty. Just make sure to use it according to the above advice and I'm confident you can't go wrong.

I find going to Contain to see out games works very well for me. Has worked 90 per cent of the time for me. Putting my full backs on support when up against it has worked a certain amount of times for me but Contain works very well.

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This is the most consistent tactic for me in the 17.3.1 patch. After making few tweaks to suit my team, I have played 83 games till now in Sky Bet League 2 and have won 67 games, lost 11 and drew 5. 171 goals scored and 98 conceded.

I have removed tackle harder PI from all the players and made some changes in roles according to tactics write up. It is working beautifully. Almost all the matches I dominated from start to end. Definitely this tactic is for long term saves.

This is how my tactic looks like after tweaks. Actually, you can replicate SS and CF with AM and DLF respectively with same PI.

Capture.PNG

Edited by lichborne

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7 hours ago, lichborne said:

This is the most consistent tactic for me in the 17.3.1 patch. After making few tweaks to suit my team, I have played 83 games till now in Sky Bet League 2 and have won 67 games, lost 11 and drew 5. 171 goals scored and 98 conceded.

I have removed tackle harder PI from all the players and made some changes in roles according to tactics write up. It is working beautifully. Almost all the matches I dominated from start to end. Definitely this tactic is for long term saves.

This is how my tactic looks like after tweaks. Actually, you can replicate SS and CF with AM and DLF respectively with same PI.

Capture.PNG

Yup, super consistent for me as well. I've rebooted my Wycombe game, first season in the Premier League, season 2020/21. Originally, we'd finished 13th using a different tactic but using HUSTLER v3 with a media prediction of 20th, sitting 3rd after 24 games played and have won the last 7 away league games!!! This includes beating Man City, Spurs and Chelsea. My best player has a CA of 135, with most of the players in the 120s. We are also the second highest scorers in the league........ this is nothing short of phenomenal.

HUSTLER_v3_media_prediction_Wyc_first_se

HUSTLER_v3_results_Wyc_first_season_EPL.image postcertificity.com

HUSTLER_v3_squad_Wyc_first_season_EPL.jp

Edited by Franky.

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I've updated the original post with the following info as it's something I cannot stress highly enough..............

MOULDING THE PLAYERS TO FIT THE TACTIC (VERY IMPORTANT)

The tactic is permanently set to ATTACKING mentality so your players will be itching to shoot at every opportunity but if they don't have decent long shot or finishing ability then they will be extremely wasteful, possibly rendering the tactic ineffective. Therefore, the following 3 pieces of advice are absolutely vital and will dictate how effective the tactic is for your team.........

1) Every player that has less than 13 (in the top division) for long shots should be trained to 'refrain from taking long shots'. For the strikers and AMC, this is a priority as they're most prone to wasting good passing opportunities by taking ridiculous shots from distance....... this PPM will help to minimize that.

2) ALL players with a finishing attribute of less than 12 (in the top division) should be trained to 'looks for pass rather than attempting to score'. Again, this is in order to minimize the amount of wasted efforts on goal. They will still take shots at goal but only from decent scoring opportunities.

3) For each division down, lower the number by 1 but only to a minimum of 10 for both long shots and finishing so..........

PREMIER LEAGUE - every player that has less than 13 for long shots and 12 for finishing.

CHAMPIONSHIP - 12 for long shots and 11 for finishing.

LEAGUE ONE - 11 for long shots and 10 for finishing.

LEAGUE TWO AND BELOW - 10 for long shots and 10 for finishing.

VERY IMPORTANT: 'Refrains from taking long shots' and 'looks for pass rather than attempting to score' should be the very first PPMs you train all players that fall within the above mentioned filters with the exception of wing backs, who's first priority should be 'gets forward whenever possible', irrespective of their long shot/finishing ability.

Edited by Franky.

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I really like the look of this tactic. Just a quick few questions. If you don't have players that play well as b2b or CM's and very much playmakers should you just leave the roles as they are? I've used tactics where players are just at half on the suitability circle and they've worked out fine. Is the role suitability really important for this tactic mate? 

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16 hours ago, The Dog 83 said:

I really like the look of this tactic. Just a quick few questions. If you don't have players that play well as b2b or CM's and very much playmakers should you just leave the roles as they are? I've used tactics where players are just at half on the suitability circle and they've worked out fine. Is the role suitability really important for this tactic mate? 

Personally, I don't like having players with less than 7/10 for role suitability. The answer to your question is in the original post....... BBMs can be used as CMs or BWMs if they are much better suited to either of those roles. Just make sure to maintain the player instructions. If you're still struggling then out of necessity you can use the CM as a DPL and the BBMs as APMs, again maintaining the PIs...... let us know how you get on.

 

13 hours ago, rizqikk said:

is this tactic work in liga italia serie a too? im managing ac milan

There's no reason why any tactic will refuse to work in La Liga :)

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This tactic is amazing!
I'm managing Boston United and have used my own created counter attacking tactic with great success, gaining promotion every year and now I'm the first season in Premier League. 20 matches in to the season and I only recorded three wins and four draws, but switched to this tactic and the results are extremely good. 9-2-0 record since switching. Won against Man United out shooting them 24-5, and my players are not even very good, basically championship quality. The amount of clear chances created every game is remarkable.
Thank you for this tactic, Franky. Great work!

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Hey Franky, great write up !!!! And tactic looks solid.

 

One question, in this thread somewhere you mentioned that you removed "Offside Trap" from the team instructions, however in the latest version that I have downloaded, it is enabled. Is it supposed to be like this?

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2 hours ago, omrgul said:

Hey Franky, great write up !!!! And tactic looks solid.

 

One question, in this thread somewhere you mentioned that you removed "Offside Trap" from the team instructions, however in the latest version that I have downloaded, it is enabled. Is it supposed to be like this?

That advice was for a previous version of the tactic..... v3 (current version) uses the offside trap.

Edited by Franky.

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I've finished first season in the Premier League with Wycombe, 2020/21 and we had a media prediction of 20th with my best player (Rony Lopes) having a CA of 135 and majority of players in the 120s. Bearing this in mind, the following points are the highlights of the season....

Finished 3rd. The highest I have ever finished previously in the Premier League with a newly promoted team was 10th so this tactic trumps all previous tactics I've created. 

Had a 7 game win streak away from home, which including wins at City, Chelsea and Spurs. Overall second best away record in the division.

Highhest scorers away from home in the division.

Won manager of the year.

I'll edit this post and add some screenshots later. I can confidently say this is my best tactic for FM 17. If you are using any of my other tactics, I would dump them and use this instead :)

Edited by Franky.

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I've updated the original post with the following information...............

ACHIEVING DEFENSIVE SOLIDITY (VERY IMPORTANT)

You have three attackers up top, defensively helping out very little in your own half. They stay high up the pitch majority of the time so your team is able to hit the opposition on the counter, which means you will score bucket loads of goals and that's why HUSTLER is so effective. While that's all good and well from an attacking perspective, it can leave you defensively short of numbers and with many other tactics adopting a one up top approach with nine outfield players helping out defensively, HUSTLER only has seven, thus putting a lot of physical stress on five of the seven. That's your three midfielders and both wing backs. The centre backs hold their position for obvious reasons but the three mids and both wbs have to compensate for the lack of defensive bodies by running around like madmen, marking/tackling and closing opponents down to minimize the amount of space they have to exploit, thus limiting the chances they can create. For this reason it's absolutely imperative that these five players are workhorses and also defensively sound. Even one of these guys not having the correct attributes can destabilize the tactic defensively and mean your team will leak goals. For this reason, make sure to adhere to the following rule that applies to both BBMs, CM and both WBs..........

All five MUST have an absolute minimum of 13 (in the top division) for 'work rate' and a combined minimum of 22 for marking/tackling. There are other attributes that come into play but these three are the ones you need to make sure are not compromised.

Apply the following filters for the relevant divisions..........

PREMIER LEAGUE - work rate - minimum 13.......................... marking/tackling - minimum combined total of 22

CHAMPIONSHIP - work rate - minimum 13............................ marking/tackling - minimum combined total of 21

LEAGUE ONE - work rate - minimum 12................................. marking/tackling - minimum combined total of 20

LEAGUE TWO AND BELOW - work rate - minimum 12......... marking/tackling - minimum combined total of 19

Please note: The above mentioned numbers are the absolute minimum requirements. The higher the numbers, the more effective the player(s) will be at helping your team achieve defensive solidity and as already mentioned, even one of the five players not fulfilling the above criteria can mean the tactic will become like a pack of cards that collapses due to one card falling out of place.

Also, I haven't just picked the above numbers at random, rather it's down to experience. I had a perfectly functioning team where the five relevant players fulfilled the minimum requirements, then replaced two of them with players who were overall superior but fell below the minimum requirements for just marking and tackling....... we started conceding goals like there's no tomorrow and it became a case of trying to outscore the opposition with defensive solidity flushed down the toilet!!...... it's really not what you want and to avoid it happening to your team, make sure your 5 players fulfill the minimum requirements for marking, tackling and work rate.

Edited by Franky.

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Franky.

First off, thanks for the tactic.. I'm having mixed, but mainly positive results with it, which is great.

Curious though.. Defensive, it's terrible.. Here are the stats for my big 5 defending players.

WBR - Tackling 15 Marking 13 Work Rate 15

WBL  - Tackling 16 Marking 12 Work Rate 14

BBM  - Tackling 14 Marking 13 Work Rate 15

CM  - Tackling 16 Marking 14 Work Rate 16

BBM  - Tackling 10 Marking 12 Work Rate 16

 

But I've Won 5 Lost 5.. and conceded 18 in 10 games.. Away I've lost 4 out of 5.

Can you give me any advice? I'm following all your instructions in regards to passing to shorter against tougher opposition and WB's to support once the other team switch to attacking.

Regards,

Barka

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On 5/11/2017 at 22:50, barka said:

Franky.

First off, thanks for the tactic.. I'm having mixed, but mainly positive results with it, which is great.

Curious though.. Defensive, it's terrible.. Here are the stats for my big 5 defending players.

WBR - Tackling 15 Marking 13 Work Rate 15

WBL  - Tackling 16 Marking 12 Work Rate 14

BBM  - Tackling 14 Marking 13 Work Rate 15

CM  - Tackling 16 Marking 14 Work Rate 16

BBM  - Tackling 10 Marking 12 Work Rate 16

 

But I've Won 5 Lost 5.. and conceded 18 in 10 games.. Away I've lost 4 out of 5.

Can you give me any advice? I'm following all your instructions in regards to passing to shorter against tougher opposition and WB's to support once the other team switch to attacking.

Regards,

Barka

My away record was second best in the Premier League with a media prediction of 20th but second season, I've made a couple of bad signings and am lacking squad depth due to lack of finances and the addition of European football so less rest for the players plus more injuries due to the extra fixtures. This has seen my defence concede more goals than in the first season so I know where you're coming from. I'm trialling a small fix to help shore up the defence. You can give it a go as well if you'd like and I would appreciate your feedback. Just set both centre backs to 'close down much less' so they hold their position at all times and don't get drawn out to close down an attacker..... let us know how it goes. Oh and your players have great attributes so are more than suitable for the tactic. What's your media prediction, by the way?

EDIT: Don't bother with the above mentioned defensive tweak. It doesn't make the tactic any better and if anything, we score a few less goals due to not winning the ball back as quickly.

Edited by Franky.

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This tactics seems very interesting - i have one problem though. In la liga I play in primera with a team which is striving for mid table. This season ai score the first goal in each match, but i have great difficulty defending my lead and a couple of times i loose after beeing 2-0 up.

usually they equalize right after mig first goal

 

any thoughts?

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On 5/12/2017 at 05:44, Franky. said:

My away record was second best in the Premier League with a media prediction of 20th but second season, I've made a couple of bad signings and am lacking squad depth due to lack of finances and the addition of European football so less rest for the players plus more injuries due to the extra fixtures. This has seen my defence concede more goals than in the first season so I know where you're coming from. I'm trialling a small fix to help shore up the defence. You can give it a go as well if you'd like and I would appreciate your feedback. Just set both centre backs to 'close down much less' so they hold their position at all times and don't get drawn out to close down an attacker..... let us know how it goes. Oh and your players have great attributes so are more than suitable for the tactic. What's your media prediction, by the way?

Hi Franky,

Thanks for getting back to me.

I've set the 2 CB's to 'close down much less' - below are my results since then.

Capture.thumb.JPG.a58eb731d429974926dda7ab59267346.JPG

The 4-0 loss away to United, going there with an attacking philosophy with a weaker team just seems like suicide to me? lol No idea how you did this with Wycombe and players CA around the 130 mark.

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3 hours ago, barka said:

Hi Franky,

Thanks for getting back to me.

I've set the 2 CB's to 'close down much less' - below are my results since then.

Capture.thumb.JPG.a58eb731d429974926dda7ab59267346.JPG

The 4-0 loss away to United, going there with an attacking philosophy with a weaker team just seems like suicide to me? lol No idea how you did this with Wycombe and players CA around the 130 mark.

I've played United 4 times and lost every one. They are just too good but the way I play the game, I stick to a particular tactic usage formula for sake of consistency. I need a bit of context regarding your game. What media prediction are you and other than the relevant marking/tackling/work rate attributes for your defence/midfield, your back 4 also need to be quick due to the high defensive line..... what are their acceleration/pace stats?

As for my Wycombe game, second season in the Premier League there's a fixture overload and with a media prediction of 12th, am in January and currently sitting 3rd. You have to remember this tactic is not meant to grind out 1-0 wins. It's a 'fight fire with fire' tactic that is meant to outscore the opposition.

Edited by Franky.

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18 hours ago, busaif said:

This tactics seems very interesting - i have one problem though. In la liga I play in primera with a team which is striving for mid table. This season ai score the first goal in each match, but i have great difficulty defending my lead and a couple of times i loose after beeing 2-0 up.

usually they equalize right after mig first goal

 

any thoughts?

Are you switching your wing backs to support when the opponents go to an attacking formation?...... they usually do that when you go ahead.

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Hi Franky. I'm fairly new to playing FM and your tactics have been a big help. I'm playing with Norwich and used your Supreme tactic to run away with the Championship. Carried on using that in the Premier League until January with more mixed results and very poor scoring rates. But we were always around 10th on a media prediction of 18th so not bad. Decided to switch to this to see what happened. Scoring improved and overall so did results but we still finished 10th due to losing so many games to one counter attacking goal. Anyway, decided to fully commit to it and spent big in the summer to improve my midfield and wing backs in line with what you said above and it's looking good. 4th after 7 games with 5 wins and 2 defeats (both of which were total drubbings though). I'm telling the CBs not to close down and tend to play short passing pretty much all the time. Have had some success with switching to contain and putting the WBs on defend when we are really under attack and it doesn't appear to impede scoring (came from behind to beat West Brom doing so). Will check my CBs speed stats but looking like a much stronger season!

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Downloaded this most recent version as was having no success with my recent self-made tactics. I've sadly broken my self-imposed ban on downloading other tactics but I had run out of ideas.

I'm Coventry in the Premiership and we're doing really badly. We're 17th but I feel I have the players to be comfortably mid table.

I've played 4 games with it, the tactic is getting familiar, admittedly not fully yet. We've won 1 (5-4!), drawn 2 (1-1, 3-3) and lost 1 (0-2) (we had a man sent off early on so that can be excused as we were very unlucky to lose otherwise). So my feedback is as follows:

Positives

We create good chances and score loads but admittedly waste a number of long range shots as we aren't good enough in that area.

The tactic is producing some lovely football and the opposition can't live with the three up top combo

Negatives

The hard tackling is giving away far too many free kicks. We had 10 yellows and one sent off in my first game so I removed it. Hard tackling for centre halves is very risky in my opinion.

The tactic is defensive suicide for my team.

The above is what I need some suggestions with. We are getting ripped apart from through balls AND crosses. Opposition players are just ghosting into the area and my centre halves are nowhere near them. The quality of the attackers in the prem is frightening and they're scoring virtually every time. I can see what the AI are doing, whenever we go ahead they are doubling up on the flanks or moving the defensive line real high and creating a 3 on 2 situation with my centre halves. We get counter attacked brutally at times. Man marking? Difficult when most teams play a 4231 with fluid movement between the lines.

I've tried the suggestions, wing backs on support - now this generally improves our defensive play, the computer creates a bit less but when it does we can't keep them out. Short passing again does make us a little more solid but we are so prone, the CPU only need one chance and they score meaning we always have to outscore them. My CBs can't mark to save their lives and the full backs are being doubled up on.  The B2B midfielders are not covering sufficiently. I've tried going deeper but that invites even more pressure. I'm not really sure what to do. My defenders (admittedly very average at Prem level) are not picking any of them up, but they're not **** players but they defend pub league! I even tried moving the CM (d) to DM (d) and that isn't even working. Maybe a half back? God knows.

My team have high ratings for work rate and teamwork and average for marking, tackling and positioning. Invest in better players? I'd like to, I have 50 million to spend but the team I have shouldn't be under performing this badly at the back. It's an embarrassment, you just know the AI are going to screw you and I'm out of inspiration!

Any advice!?

 

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On 5/15/2017 at 19:16, bamb00zle said:

Downloaded this most recent version as was having no success with my recent self-made tactics. I've sadly broken my self-imposed ban on downloading other tactics but I had run out of ideas.

I'm Coventry in the Premiership and we're doing really badly. We're 17th but I feel I have the players to be comfortably mid table.

I've played 4 games with it, the tactic is getting familiar, admittedly not fully yet. We've won 1 (5-4!), drawn 2 (1-1, 3-3) and lost 1 (0-2) (we had a man sent off early on so that can be excused as we were very unlucky to lose otherwise). So my feedback is as follows:

Positives

We create good chances and score loads but admittedly waste a number of long range shots as we aren't good enough in that area.

The tactic is producing some lovely football and the opposition can't live with the three up top combo

Negatives

The hard tackling is giving away far too many free kicks. We had 10 yellows and one sent off in my first game so I removed it. Hard tackling for centre halves is very risky in my opinion.

The tactic is defensive suicide for my team.

The above is what I need some suggestions with. We are getting ripped apart from through balls AND crosses. Opposition players are just ghosting into the area and my centre halves are nowhere near them. The quality of the attackers in the prem is frightening and they're scoring virtually every time. I can see what the AI are doing, whenever we go ahead they are doubling up on the flanks or moving the defensive line real high and creating a 3 on 2 situation with my centre halves. We get counter attacked brutally at times. Man marking? Difficult when most teams play a 4231 with fluid movement between the lines.

I've tried the suggestions, wing backs on support - now this generally improves our defensive play, the computer creates a bit less but when it does we can't keep them out. Short passing again does make us a little more solid but we are so prone, the CPU only need one chance and they score meaning we always have to outscore them. My CBs can't mark to save their lives and the full backs are being doubled up on.  The B2B midfielders are not covering sufficiently. I've tried going deeper but that invites even more pressure. I'm not really sure what to do. My defenders (admittedly very average at Prem level) are not picking any of them up, but they're not **** players but they defend pub league! I even tried moving the CM (d) to DM (d) and that isn't even working. Maybe a half back? God knows.

My team have high ratings for work rate and teamwork and average for marking, tackling and positioning. Invest in better players? I'd like to, I have 50 million to spend but the team I have shouldn't be under performing this badly at the back. It's an embarrassment, you just know the AI are going to screw you and I'm out of inspiration!

Any advice!?

 

Thanks for the feedback, great post. Okay, here's a few things.........
 

1) Are you setting booked players to 'ease off tackles'?

2) In the Premier League, all 4 defenders must have a pace/acceleration combined minimum of 25. Any less and they will struggle due to the high defensive line.

3) The original post details which players MUST be trained to 'refrain from taking long shots' and 'looks for pass rather than attempt to score'...... these two PPMs will cut down on the wasted efforts on goal.

4) Make sure to only buy players that are suitable for each position, especially the defenders and three mids who all must have the specific attributes mentioned in the original post.

5) Stick with my suggested 'tactic usage' formula. Once your players get used to the tactic and new signings blend into the team, the defensive side will improve significantly. My Wycombe team finished 3rd in our first season in the Premier League with a media prediction of 20th. Second season and media prediction is 12th but due to several new signings, the first few games we conceded loads, then it settled down and now rarely conceding more than a goal a game....... you just have to be patient. Here's a screenshot of our results so far....... currently sitting 4th.

HUSTLER_v3_EPL_2nd_season_results_so_far

Keep us updated on how you get on.

Edited by Franky.

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On 5/14/2017 at 10:44, Gran2 said:

Hi Franky. I'm fairly new to playing FM and your tactics have been a big help. I'm playing with Norwich and used your Supreme tactic to run away with the Championship. Carried on using that in the Premier League until January with more mixed results and very poor scoring rates. But we were always around 10th on a media prediction of 18th so not bad. Decided to switch to this to see what happened. Scoring improved and overall so did results but we still finished 10th due to losing so many games to one counter attacking goal. Anyway, decided to fully commit to it and spent big in the summer to improve my midfield and wing backs in line with what you said above and it's looking good. 4th after 7 games with 5 wins and 2 defeats (both of which were total drubbings though). I'm telling the CBs not to close down and tend to play short passing pretty much all the time. Have had some success with switching to contain and putting the WBs on defend when we are really under attack and it doesn't appear to impede scoring (came from behind to beat West Brom doing so). Will check my CBs speed stats but looking like a much stronger season!

As long as you buy the right players with the required attributes, you'll be fine. Make sure to train all the suggested PPMs and keep us updated on how you get on.

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I'm still absolutely loving these tactics and I'm still making the odd little personal tweak so I don't feel like I'm "completely" ripping someone else's idea. :D

 

I've made a slightly more defensive variant which I tend to use away from home or when we're fairly heavy underdogs. Running a standard or counter mentality, moving the tempo up to lower or normal, close down sometimes and dropping the WBs to support or even making them Full Backs on attack helps some of the defensive stability. I've mentioned it before but I run a high block with this tactic which means the two strikers and the shadow striker are set to close down more so they'll pressure the opposition's back line. Regardless of how defensive and safe this variant of the tactic is meant to be, these three players are never involved in defensive transitions unless you go contain. You may get an extra goal or two in a season just by pressuring a back line of players not comfortable on the ball. 

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Tried this tactic. I feel the demands on getting the right players is a lot higher in this tactic than the total domination f.e.  Especially the PPM which take some time to learn (esp @ weaker teams).

I think, when starting out lower, it might be advisable to start with the total domination version and get youth players you slowly mold into fitting the Hustler tactic. 'cause it does seem to be more potent at the highest levels of football than the total domination is?

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On ‎14‎-‎05‎-‎2017 at 11:05, Franky. said:

Are you switching your wing backs to support when the opponents go to an attacking formation?...... they usually do that when you go ahead.

yes but has stopped doing that as it almost stops my attacking play. not that i always keep them on attacking has kept me in control.

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Hustler v3 is by FAR the best tactic that I've used in this year's FM.

After having tried multiple times (with very mixed success) to create my own setup, I opted to give this a try with my Rangers side. The first season was a bit of a mixed bag but in the second season this tactic has really come into it's own. I'm battering sides (including Celtic away) despite not having a great squad. I won everything domestically and only lost 3 games all season.

I found the following tweaks were useful (at least for my side):

- Upped the defensive line to "Normal" to press the opposition more.

- I removed the "Get Stuck In" instruction as I found I was getting far too many yellows.

- Changed the "CM(D)" to a "BWM(D)". I found that the "CM(D)" wasn't really contributing much during the match and I wanted to see if I could get him more involved. Switching to ball winning midfielder did the trick. He seemed to break up play more regularly and even contributed more to attack (8 goals mostly from just outside the box).

- I set all players in the midfield strata (excluding the shadow striker) to shoot less often. In my case, I found that the MCs were often shooting when a pass was seemingly the better option. Additionally, my players in these positions did not have great finishing, long shots or composure. This stopped them from being as wasteful in possession and it also kept my long shots per match count down.

During the match, I never change from an Attacking mentally (regardless of opposition quality or the scoreline). Even when I'm winning away from home (for example), I stick to my guns and do not change mentality or switch the wingbacks to support. More often than not, I found it was was better to continue to attack whilst the opposition is pushing forward for an equaliser. The opposing team would regularly leave space at the back allowing my wingbacks and strikers to find lots of space. I scored a really good amount of late goals by braving it out not changing mentality.

The only tactical change that I make regularly is to select "Stay On Feet" tackling. I usually do this if I find that I'm getting a lot of yellow cards early on in the match. I also sometimes do this late on in games if the scoreline is tight and I don't want to give away any silly freekicks or penalties.

Finally, I would say that the wingbacks are key to this tactic's success. Both of my starting wingbacks topped my assist charts (both well into double figures) and if they have pace and crossing ability they can be absolutely deadly! As others have stated, the interplay between the front three is great too. All of my main strikers scored at least 20+ goals with the shadow striker chipping in a decent amount too.

Anyway, suffice to say that I love this tactic! My contract at Rangers is about to expire and I'm tempted to see if I can replicate this success with another team in a different league. Great fun!

Cheers Franky. Good work. :thup: 

Edited by the_gaffa

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Thanks for the feedback guys. Please keep us updated with your observations.

DJ Sir Matthew, I would abandon Total Domination as HUSTLER v3 is far superior in my opinion, so long as you can get the right players for it.
 

Edited by Franky.

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So Franky, you asked for an update after I gave feedback.

Well, my Coventry side (Premiership) currently sit 13th (only won 2 of first 10 games) but we've recovered using your tactic but I'm still getting bad defensive issues. The tactic is fully fluid.

We have played 22 games using Hustler v3, with a couple of tweaks (hard tackling off, lower instead of very low tempo, narrow instead of very narrow, work ball into box)

We have won 8, drawn 8 and lost 6. In 22 games we've scored 41 (very good) but we've conceded almost 2 a game, also 39. We've kept a grand total of TWO clean sheets!

We have no answer at all when the CPU get in crossing positions, it's totally predictable. Especially when the CPU plays 4231, just get carved open time and again.

We get doubled up on the flanks, when they counter there is acres of space on the flank (due to us being narrow), simple cross, forward ghosts in , goal, virtually every time. That's really the only type of goal the CPU scores apart from some worldies outside the box. There is just no cover on the flanks at all.

I have two hard working B2B midfielders so they should be covering

I've tried all the fixes, WB (s), I've even changed them to FB (a) or (s) and still nothing happening. I have average defenders, work rate, marking, teamwork, tackling for the Prem so the tactic is probably getting us where we should be with the players we have, BUT we always have to outscore the opposition as every time the CPU attack, it's like a knife through butter.

I love how the tactic plays but we're too open for the counter and the flanks are a disaster. Any feedback?

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