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Franky's HUSTLER Tactic for FM 17 - updated for patch 17.3 P130 W115 D13 L2


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This tactic is going terribly for Man Utd.

P14 W4 D6 L4, F:16 A:16.

We average 50.12% possession, most attempts are long shots not even deemed good enough chances for a highlight. 19th on shots on target. 2nd most fouls made. 19th tackles won ratio.

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3 hours ago, Porthos said:

This tactic is going terribly for Man Utd

It's funny, but I've never been able to get it to work with United. Just played one fantastic season with Monaco - went 28 games unbeaten and finished the season with just three defeats, all of which came during a March/April injury crisis. Still did a clean sweep of the French domestic trophies, beat PSG home and away, and demolished them in the cup. Great squad, beautiful football.

I know Franky has had success with United, but it just doesn't gel for me, and I wonder how much of it is the squad. Front to back, only De Gea, Smalling, Bailly, Pogba and Ibra really suit the tactic. Shaw is OK at WBl, but Darmian is a poor fit; Blind is OK at CM, but the backups never perform; and Miki, Mata,, Martial and Rashford are square pegs in round holes. Rooney does OK at SS when he's fit - which, in my experience, is almost never. Contrarily, a while back I had a great first season with United playing Franky's Phantoms tactic. It's been said before but, regardless of tactic, you need the right players.

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never normally one to comment on the Tactics on this site or any site BUT to be fair but this one needs a comment,

Hands down by far the best tactic available for football manager after extensive testing.

with this tactic i took Salford City to the Premier league in consecutive seasons , then started a new save with my beloved Bolton and again within 4 season we are premier league Champions its got to the point where i am considering using a different tactic as i consider this one to be cheating the results are that good.

Thank You Franky for this tactic and giving me hours and hours of Joy on this generally Frustrating game KUTGW (Y)

Edited by dioufy_is_god
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On 4/9/2017 at 07:28, Baron Greenback said:

Eeek! Can't wait to have a look at that then! I did wonder if the current number of TI's might be a bit much for lower league players to deal with but the results I've been getting have been as good as I could have hoped for so I've been more than happy with the current set up.

I'll keep checking back and have a look at the new version before I go on because I'm still in pre-season so it's the ideal time to switch.

One question I do have, how important is the hard tackling to the overall effectiveness? I end up removing it from several players each match and having to switch it to ease off to avoid a second yellow so is that reducing its effectiveness overall and would it therefore be better to be on normal from the start? I'm itching to hear your thoughts on this!

Hard tackling and 'get stuck in' instructions are there as intimidation techniques in my opinion. It can lead to opposition flair players going missing, which is what you want. If a player has a low bravery attribute, going in hard on him can ruffle him up and stifle his effectiveness. Hard tackling also allows your better tacklers to win more tackles and if done high up the pitch by your midfielders, can result in fouls but also stop a potential counter attack so there's lots of advantages. Obviously, the downside is your team will commit more fouls in dangerous areas but if the tackling is set to standard, then the downside of that is the flair players can really get into the game and dominate, as well as your team's ability to win the ball back being reduced.......... so there's pros and cons but personally, I feel it's more beneficial to use hard tackling. Obviously as you say, once a player picks up a yellow, you need to manually set him to 'ease off tackling'. Once you do that, sure he'll win less tackles but on average and at a rough guess, I'd say your average player will get one yellow every 4 games so out of 360 minutes played, he'll only be set to 'ease off tackles' for 45-90 of those minutes so it's worth it I reckon

 

On 4/9/2017 at 19:29, sparkysrovers said:

I wouldn't say that's necessary. I'm currently on a 16 match win streak in the league having conceded only 4 goals and scored 70

You must have a very strong team and it definitely gets the best out of such teams as I found in my Man United and Wycombe saves. The new simplified version will take a less gung-ho/more measured approach and will be more balanced, more possession orientated and more universally suitable for all teams as the current tactic is a bit too attacking in my opinion where lesser players just can't pull off the tactic, so to speak...... will definitely be uploading by the weekend at the latest as I'm quite happy with it in testing :)

Edited by Franky.
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1 hour ago, Franky. said:

Hard tackling and 'get stuck in' instructions are there as intimidation techniques in my opinion. It can lead to opposition flair players going missing, which is what you want. If a player has a low bravery attribute, going in hard on him can ruffle him up and stifle his effectiveness. Hard tackling also allows your better tacklers to win more tackles and if done high up the pitch by your midfielders, can result in fouls but also stop a potential counter attack so there's lots of advantages. Obviously, the downside is your team will commit more fouls in dangerous areas but if the tackling is set to standard, then the downside of that is the flair players can really get into the game and dominate, as well as your team's ability to win the ball back being reduced.......... so there's pros and cons but personally, I feel it's more beneficial to use hard tackling. Obviously as you say, once a player picks up a yellow, you need to manually set him to 'ease off tackling'. Once you do that, sure he'll win less tackles but on average and at a rough guess, I'd say your average player will get one yellow every 4 games so out of 360 minutes played, he'll only be set to 'ease off tackles' for 45-90 of those minutes so it's worth it I reckon

 

You must have a very strong team and it definitely gets the best out of such teams as I found in my Man United and Wycombe saves. The new simplified version will take a less gung-ho/more measured approach and will be more balanced, more possession orientated and more universally suitable for all teams as the current tactic is a bit too attacking in my opinion where lesser players just can't pull off the tactic, so to speak...... will definitely be uploading by the weekend at the latest as I'm quite happy with it in testing :)

Franky, I'd say my CDEFS and BWM (mine in much better suited to this role) get booked twice in three games - ie slightly more than 1 in 2. The other two mids would get booked once in every two. I occasionally get straight reds - 3 a season but very rarely a sending off for two yellows. The simple explanation is that my lower league players having lower tackling ratings eg 10-13.

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Hi Franky,

How's testing going? I'm holding off starting my next season to try the new version out. I'm in the ideal position having gone up to L1 in 3 straight promotions. I have poor players for the league (made no signings yet) and am still in a lower league as it is so have held off playing to test this one out as it should be better for the standard of players I have now rather than when I get into the Championship (hopefully next season.. .). 

I'm assuming it'll be a new thread but to be sure I haven't missed it I am continuing to post here until I get the nod!

I have a good opportunity to play a decent session tonight and tomorrow so will keep checking back regularly.

I'll hopefully be able to give you some useful feedback!

BG 

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been playing about with various tactics so thought this would be a natural progression for my Derby County team . Very hit and miss as a result of not having the best players and no ability to buy new ones . More red cards than other tactics as has been discussed so think i'll be going back to Total Domination for a while

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I've added a standard and contain version of 1.2c to the original post. Standard is less aggressive and adopts a more balanced and sensible approach and is to be used to start all games except home games where you are pre-match favourite, in which case you start with the original/attacking version of 1.2c. Contain is used from any point in the second half of games where you just want to see games out and are not concerned about scoring more goals....... that's a brief summary but please see the tactic usage section in the original post for full information on how to use.

Edited by Franky.
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15 hours ago, Baron Greenback said:

Just posted in Punisher about my results but quick recap, using the version you posted first following the update to 17.3 has given me the best results so far.

Thanks. Your feedback is appreciated and off the back of it (plus other's feedback also), I'm going to abandon PUNISHER because the more I tweak it, the more it's turning into HUSTLER lol. No point having two separate tactics that are the same. Will leave it up for now, though. As for HUSTLER v2, I've also found it to be the more consistent tactic in my test games so I'm going to give it a run with the following tactic usage formula.......

Scenario 1. Pre match favourite at home - start with the tactic as it is.

2. All other matches - set passing to shorter.

3. No changes until half-time, after which...........

4. Need to score  - default (i.e. mixed passing).

5. Don't need to score but are confident the opposition are unlikely to get back into the game - shorter passing.

6. Want to see out the game with no desire to score more goals - Set team mentality to 'contain' and both wing backs on defend duty.

Also, whenever the opposition go to an attacking style and you are not on scenario 6, set wing backs to support duty.

Shorter passing allows for greater control of the game and helps to restrict the amount of chances the opposition can create. Once I've tested this formula and am happy with it, I'll close down PUNISHER and re-write the tactic usage section for HUSTLER v2.

 

Edited by Franky.
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Aww I just spent a season switching over to the Punisher tactic. Now I need to unlearn a few PPMs (moves into channels). To be honest it wasnt working as well as Hustler. I went from a title winning side to 5th while i struggled to find a creative 2nd CF and retrain the IWBs. What i did enjoy were the huge wins I picked up along the way. 12-2 is my record win in any competitive match from any FM version. It was a Premier League fixture and the majority of goals came in the 1st 30mins...utter chaos :D

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how is the v2tactic going with the changes . i had won the euro cup and fa cup with forest . i came second  in the league and lost in the league cup . the problem i have with the tactic is the away team always seem to score with a pass across the box and the foward just taps it in at the far post . the wing backs just seem to disappear 

Edited by davey22
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What I want to know is how to get your forwards playing like that because it's deadly!

On a serious note though, how would setting the WB's to cross low to the near post affect the overall tactic, Franky?

I favour whipped crosses but in a previous tactic I used before I discovered yours, that is what I did and it seemed to be more effective but that was a standard 4123 wide so lots of getting the ball to the byline and scooting it across goal for the easy tap in going on. That was aimed at the far post though and the shots seemed to come from the tightest of angles. It may even have been Ghosts that I'm thinking of actually....! 

All this happened before the last 2 updates though so not sure how it would work now and this save is too important to me to risk experimenting too much.

Edited by Baron Greenback
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14 hours ago, davey22 said:

how is the v2tactic going with the changes . i had won the euro cup and fa cup with forest . i came second  in the league and lost in the league cup . the problem i have with the tactic is the away team always seem to score with a pass across the box and the foward just taps it in at the far post . the wing backs just seem to disappear 

HUSTLER v2 is going really well. Ten games in and conceded just twice, both meaningless consolation goals. The shorter passing makes a massive difference to the amount of chances the opposition creates. My team are very good but we don't quite have the same quality as United (best team in the game) or Chelsea.........

HUSTLER_v2_10_games_in.jpgfree picture uploadcertificity.com

1 hour ago, Baron Greenback said:

What I want to know is how to get your forwards playing like that because it's deadly!

On a serious note though, how would setting the WB's to cross low to the near post affect the overall tactic, Franky?

I favour whipped crosses but in a previous tactic I used before I discovered yours, that is what I did and it seemed to be more effective but that was a standard 4123 wide so lots of getting the ball to the byline and scooting it across goal for the easy tap in going on. That was aimed at the far post though and the shots seemed to come from the tightest of angles. It may even have been Ghosts that I'm thinking of actually....! 

All this happened before the last 2 updates though so not sure how it would work now and this save is too important to me to risk experimenting too much.

If you get the right PPMs with a DLF who comes deep to collect the ball, CF who likes to beat the offside trap and shadow striker who gets into opposition area, you're half way there :). Also make sure to train them to 'refrain from taking long shots' if long shot ability is less than 13.

As for crosses, I agree that low crosses are the easiest to convert for most strikers but there is a specific reason I go with whipped crosses...... when low crosses are cleared, the defenders boot the ball a mile away and that's the end of the attack, whereas because with whipped crosses the ball is airborne, many of the clearances are lame headers that regularly fall at the feet of the runners (i.e. both BBMs and SS) around the edge of the penalty area. This leads to a clear shot on goal or clever pass that creates a clear cut chance........ so yeah, whipped crosses will give you lots of second balls, whilst low crosses just don't allow for that. Also, far post crosses work best when you play with wingers/inside forwards as they attack the ball aimed at the far post. With HUSTLER, there's no wide attackers, hence I leave it open for the crosser to pick a player out rather than aim for a space that isn't going to be attacked.

Edited by Franky.
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This tactic has been working brilliantly for me all season, however the last 7 games i havent had a sniff, getting thumped in the last few games. it looks as though its going to cost me the Champions League spot. any suggestions as to why it has done this, and has anyone else had this issue?

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7 hours ago, andre62 said:

can you share hustler  v2 please

It's in the original post. Tactic usage has been updated to make sure to have a read of that if you want to get the best out of the HUSTLER tactic.

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16 hours ago, philfm86 said:

This tactic has been working brilliantly for me all season, however the last 7 games i havent had a sniff, getting thumped in the last few games. it looks as though its going to cost me the Champions League spot. any suggestions as to why it has done this, and has anyone else had this issue?

Usually a morale issue and it's a bit over the top in FM as compared to real life. Lose a game and morale drops, meaning a weaker performance next game. Lose that game and it drops even more and all of a sudden, your players forget how to win and games you'd normally win quite easily become a massive struggle. This can continue for several games until the little man sitting inside FM decides that's enough and allows you to win again :). The best thing to do in this situation is have a look at your fixture schedule and if you have a full week between games, arrange a 90 minute home friendly against a much smaller reputation team. The players with the worst morale should be given the most game time in this fixture. Naturally, you'll get a big win and that will act as a morale booster to kick start a winning run again.

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1 hour ago, Baron Greenback said:

Franky, are you confident that the latest version of Hustler is the best? I'm hoping to get some game time tonight and over the weekend and will make that switch if you're confident it's the right move?

I think so, yes. It's been available for download for some time now and I've only started using it myself less than a week ago but it's been extremely consistent and works well with the updated tactic usage formula.

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Apologies, I meant the tactic usage formula! I've just been using the standard default version in all games but am going to use the usage formula.

I just have one question; option 6, is that on shorter passing or mixed? Im setting them up as slots of their own so i can just click and go.

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21 minutes ago, Baron Greenback said:

Apologies, I meant the tactic usage formula! I've just been using the standard default version in all games but am going to use the usage formula.

I just have one question; option 6, is that on shorter passing or mixed? Im setting them up as slots of their own so i can just click and go.

I have a question.... I'm playing the Touch version of FM and during games, if I switch tactics by just clicking on a different set up as you're mentioning here, my set-piece takers are wiped out and the AI will then decide who takes free-kicks, corners and throw-ins for the rest of that particular match. Is there any way to keep my own designated set-piece takers?

Edited by Franky.
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5 minutes ago, Baron Greenback said:

Thought so but wanted to check!

I'll keep feeding back with results when I get a few games under my belt.

To be perfectly honest, when switching to contain mentality if passing was on mixed, I left it there and if it was on shorter, I left that there as well...... your question has just made me realise this. Not sure how I overlooked that. I've now suggested shorter passing but that's simply on assumption that it will be better for ball retention. I will use it myself from now on and if there's any issues, will report back....... although there shouldn't be because I've used contain  to see out games on both on mixed and shorter passing and haven't had issues.

Edited by Franky.
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So far I've found that when using shorter passing it's been very good defensively but I'm scoring 1 per game at best. If i concede then it's usually late on with little hope of a response from me.

I do wonder if that is just down to the tactic needing to bed in a bit though.

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I'm oxford city in NL south, trying to set my BBW to 'tries killer balls often' and 'tries long range passes', when I go on player instructions there's no option to do so can somebody please help me?

I'm seeing a lot of 'PPM' definition but I don't come on here often, can someone tell me where this is?

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5 hours ago, Baron Greenback said:

So far I've found that when using shorter passing it's been very good defensively but I'm scoring 1 per game at best. If i concede then it's usually late on with little hope of a response from me.

I do wonder if that is just down to the tactic needing to bed in a bit though.

No, that's what's supposed to happen. Shorter passing means a less cavalier approach but allows for greater control of a game, Naturally, this will mean less goals scored but also less conceded. That's why you start with this at home against superior opponents and away against all opponents. At half-time you have the option to switch to mixed passing if you need to score........ the whole point of starting with shorter passing is to avoid a gung-ho approach because that is what mixed passing on attacking mentality will give you and that can easily backfire, otherwise everyone would always play with attacking or overload mentalities at all times. It replicates real life scenarios as you won't find Man United go to smaller teams and play highly attacking football in the first half. They'll adopt a more moderate approach and see where that gets them by half-time. Then they'll switch to a more attacking style if they need a goal. Now irrespective of playing at home or away, if they are ahead, they'll tighten things up with a shorter passing game to take control of things or if it's against dangerous opposition then they'll park the bus to see the game out without any risks taken to increase the lead.

The tactic usage formula more or less replicates this approach. Like I said, you have the option of switching to mixed passing at half-time if you want goals but it's not realistic to expect the same attacking potency with different approaches.

 

1 hour ago, yunga-swfc said:

I'm oxford city in NL south, trying to set my BBW to 'tries killer balls often' and 'tries long range passes', when I go on player instructions there's no option to do so can somebody please help me?

I'm seeing a lot of 'PPM' definition but I don't come on here often, can someone tell me where this is?

PPM refers to 'player's preferred move' but was replaced in FM17 with 'player trait'. The name has changed but the concept is the same. You'll find it under individual training in the team training section or on the training section of a player's page.

Edited by Franky.
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Franky, since I trained moves into channels for my star striker he's been pretty useless. I'd forgotten to remove it when I reverted back to hustler. Do you think it is because the PPM doesn't tally with the tactic? I also have him in the DLF role but he did the damage as an F9. Im going to revert back to this and untrain the PPM and will feed back with my findings. 

I seem to be struggling to get my AF  (No CF's at this level) to score consistently regardless of using the DLF on the right so might as well have him scoring as an F9 rather than neither of them scoring.

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I am using this with Accrington in FMT and it is performing very well. Still suffered few defeats but it is understandable given I am relegation candidate. Thank you so much for making this great tactic.

I have a question. Is it possible to use any other ST role in place of complete forward? In lower leagues it's extremely difficult to get any half decent complete forward.

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1 hour ago, lichborne said:

I have a question. Is it possible to use any other ST role in place of complete forward? In lower leagues it's extremely difficult to get any half decent complete forward.

The write up tells you which roles are interchangeable and in what order of preference but you can use an advanced forward, of which there are plenty in the lower leagues. 

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3 hours ago, Baron Greenback said:

The write up tells you which roles are interchangeable and in what order of preference but you can use an advanced forward, of which there are plenty in the lower leagues. 

Oh crap! Silly me. I had gone through the write up but completely forgot about the replaceable roles later. Thanks for pointing it out.

Anyway,  I have made three changes to the tactic.

1) Replaced the complete forward with an advanced forward. I have used PI to act him like the complete forward except the "hold up ball" which can't be selected for this role.

2) Replaced the shadow striker with an attacking midfielder on attack duty. Again selected PI to act him like the shadow striker in this tactic.

3) Changed the Gk to a sweeper keeper. I have found it very effective to stop those "over the head" passes played over the defense.

The complete forward in this tactic hold up ball high above in ground. But since I am using AF I am not sure whether should I select "hold up ball" PI for my AM. Without this particular PI, my tweaked version of this tactic is working great. Played 6 games with the tweaked version, won 4 of them, drew 2.

Edited by lichborne
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46 minutes ago, warlock said:

He did:

 

That doesn't work on patch 17.3. My only tactic I would recommend now is HUSTLER. I may have a stab at creating a strikerless version of HUSTLER though.

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35 minutes ago, Franky. said:

That doesn't work on patch 17.3

Ah, that'll be why I had to go down a couple of pages to find it. Knew you'd done one, though.

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I'm not sure how the strikerless version will be. Perhaps 3 central attacking mids or one central and two inside forwards.................... but forget that for now. I've just uploaded version 3 of HUSTLER and it's now even more higher scoring than before. I've edited the original post with the following..............

EDIT to v3 (1st May, 2017): Just a couple of changes that increases the attacking potency of the tactic. Defensive line has been pushed up in order to adopt a really high press. This causes the opposition back line to hoof the ball under pressure, allowing your team to easily regain possession. Wing backs are also more effective as they push even further forward. You might think the opposition would be able to exploit this and easily get in behind but because they are being prevented from building from the back, they can't take advantage of of the extra space behind your team's defence. The keeper has been switched to a 'sweeper keeper' to deal with balls played over the top....... you will definitely score more goals with v3, whilst defensively it is the same, if not better..... win win!!.......... Tactic usage and all player requirements and training is exactly the same as for v2 except for the keeper. Train him as a sweeper keeper and set his training focus to passing............ I will leave v2 available for download for now but will delete after I receive feedback. v3 is the more effective tactic so use that and please let us know how you get on.

Please leave feedback so I can delete v2..... thanks :)

Franky's HUSTLER Tactic v3 for FM 17 (17.3)_A18B5867-59E5-4A80-9A9C-194EFB89F2C7.fmf

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Hi Franky, 

I have made couple of changes to your Hustler v2 tactic to suit my lower league team.

Quote

1) Replaced the complete forward with an advanced forward. I have used PI to act him like the complete forward except the "hold up ball" which can't be selected for this role.

2) Replaced the shadow striker with an attacking midfielder on attack duty. Again selected PI to act him like the shadow striker in this tactic.

3) Changed the Gk to a sweeper keeper. I have found it very effective to stop those "over the top" passes played over the defense.

4) Selected "Close Down Much Less" for the central defenders. Now they are not pulling away out of the defense by opposition forwards. it gave me amazing defensive stability.

After these changes, the v2 tactic is really unstoppable. I still suffer odd defeats and poor run of forms (hard coded in the game I believe) but it is working beautifully in my long term save.

I will try v3 after seeing some feedbacks as I really don't wan't to mess up my long term save. Thank you for making this wonderful tactic.

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1 minute ago, lichborne said:

Hi Franky, 

I have made couple of changes to your Hustler v2 tactic to suit my lower league team.

After these changes, the v2 tactic is really unstoppable. I still suffer odd defeats and poor run of forms (hard coded in the game I believe) but it is working beautifully in my long term save.

I will try v3 after seeing some feedbacks as I really don't wan't to mess up my long term save. Thank you for making this wonderful tactic.

Hey, it's actually your suggestion the other day about switching to the sweeper keeper that made me test it out. The main reason I don't like a high defensive line is because it allows too many balls over the top where the opposition striker gets in behind but I do like the high press that a high d-line provides as it gives the opponent back line and even midfield very little time on the ball, thus forcing them to make mistakes and preventing them from building from the back. Due to your suggestion, I've deployed the high d-line and switched to a sweeper keeper and as you say, the balls over the top are no longer a problem.... thanks :)

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Just now, Franky. said:

Hey, it's actually your suggestion the other day about switching to the sweeper keeper that made me test it out. The main reason I don't like a high defensive line is because it allows too many balls over the top where the opposition striker gets in behind but I do like the high press that a high d-line provides as it gives the opponent back line and even midfield very little time on the ball, thus forcing them to make mistakes and preventing them from building from the back. Due to your suggestion, I've deployed the high d-line and switched to a sweeper keeper and as you say, the balls over the top are no longer a problem.... thanks :)

I am truly honored! :cool:

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Hi Franky,

Where does this leave the tactics usage instructions for v2? I was going to post that I seem to get my beat results regardless of the opposition from the attacking set up. I concede no more goals but score more.

Will load this up right now and have a crack at it though! Good day to you, sir!

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16 minutes ago, Baron Greenback said:

Hi Franky,

Where does this leave the tactics usage instructions for v2? I was going to post that I seem to get my beat results regardless of the opposition from the attacking set up. I concede no more goals but score more.

Will load this up right now and have a crack at it though! Good day to you, sir!

Hey Baron, when you say 'attacking set up', what do you mean?..... reason for my question is there IS only one set up and that's attacking with the only change being setting passing from mixed to shorter in order to stay tighter at the back.

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