sposfan

Brand new to FM, several game and football questions.

336 posts in this topic

Well, finally took the plunge and bought the latest version after years of justifying not buying it due to my lack of football knowledge. [img]http://community.sigames.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif[/img] I did play the heck out of an old DOS game called one-nil (which gave me my strange affinity to Hartlepool <G>[img]http://community.sigames.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif[/img], which, besides watching the odd game on TV, is pretty much my entire knowledge of the sport but I've lurked on the boards for years.

I'm friendly with Amaroq from the forums through another game and while I will be pestering him with most of my obvious questions, i'll give him a break here! [img]http://community.sigames.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif[/img]

Sorry in advance if some of these are obvious questions and if they've already been answered several times.

1. On the game pitch screen, between the players benches is a circle with a "p" in it, I can find no reference to this or to the 2 circled "+"s on the top right of the same screen

2.Subbing. I understand in regular league games, subbing is done much closer to the end of a game, but how is it usually done in friendlies? do you put your first team on for most of the game, or do you pull em at around the half and let the backups and younger players get some experience?

3. injury time. I understand the concept, but in the game it will say 3 minutes of injury time, but the clock will run to 4min 20 sec of injury time? (follow up football question: is the whistle blown at the end of the (in this case) 3 minutes of injury time, no matte what the situation?)

4. Can anyone recommend a good, easy to find book to help me get a better grip on positions and what their functions are? I have a basic grasp, but it's the intricacies and what's expected from some positions that throw me. For instance, is a fullback simply someone on the back line?

5. Until the patch is in, can anyone recommend an easier team to play to start out with, the get a better idea of both FM and football?

Thanks in advance, my wife already hates this game! [img]http://community.sigames.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif[/img]

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Welcome to Football manager!

1) The (P) is either your physio or the opposing teams physio. I think they only do something when one of your players has a light injury and go over to your physio for treatment. The (+) are medics, and run onto the pitch when a player needs to be carried off.

2) Thats up to you. Sometimes in pre-season friendlies it's best to play your first 11 to make sure they're match fit, whilst sometimes you just want to play as many people as possible to get more people fitter. Or maybe you want to treat it as a serious game and tweak your formation and tactics. The choice is all yours

3) Injury time is worked out by adding the time the referee stops the clock for. If the ball goes out for say a throw in or corner, play will be resumed very quicky so the clock doesn't get stopped off. However, if some sort of delay occurs (whether it be a few heated words or kicking the ball away) the clock is stopped. Thats how the time added on is worked out.

So, if 3 minutes are added, AT LEAST 3 minutes stoppage time will be played. The final whistle will sound when the time added on has finished, and neither team is on the attach. The extra 1 minute 20 secs would have came from a team keeping an attack going beyond the 3 minutes

4) There are many different 'terms' for each position. The easiest way to learn this would just be to sit down and watch Match of the Day or Sky Sports News. A quick overview though of different names for positions:

Goalkeeper - Goalie, GK, Keeper

Defenders
Full back - A defender who plays on either the far left or far right side
Centre back - A defender who plays in the centre of the pitch
Sweeper - A player who plays behind the defenders, and clears away any loose balls
Wing Back - Like a full back, but this player is expected to play up and down the entire length of the pitch

Midfielder
Defensive Mid - Plays behind the midfield line, but infront of the defence
Attack Mid - Plays infront of the midfield line, but behind the strikers
Wingers - Midfielders who play on either the left or right, usually going down the line and crossing the ball

Strikers - Attackers, Centre Forward

5. Any team with loads of money and great players would be my guess. Chelsea?

Hope that helped

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Firstly, welcome to the game and the scene, you've chosen the best game on the market in its category [img]http://community.sigames.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif[/img]

1. The "P" is a physio, he will come on when injuries occur, other than that he's of no use to you. haha

The ones with the "+" are medics who would stretcher off a player if he's seriously injured. Again, thats all they're used for.


2. You are allowed to sub whenever you want, each manager to his own. In friendlies you have a lot more subs and you can use a lot more of them in game. Friendlies are effectively test matches, so I personally change quite a few subs to try things out.



3. The extra injury time eg : 4.20 in the 3 minute means that the 3 minute is only technically a guideline, the ref can keep it going for longer for whatever stoppages happen within injury time itself.



4. [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soccer"]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soccer[/url] this may help?



5. I would recommend one of the bigger sides in the English Premier Leauge. Manchester United are my personal favourite, have lots of good players and decent young ones. Should give you an easy enough challenge [img]http://community.sigames.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif[/img]

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Thank you both very much for the prompt replies! Extremely helpful and I should have thought of a wikipedia! I'd still like to grab a good book as well, let's just say the desktop doesn't quite reach the room where I do my best reading! [img]http://community.sigames.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif[/img]

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Have a look [url="http://www.talkfootball.co.uk/guides/football_resources.html"]here[/url], pretty basic site but maybe of some help. It would be hard to recommend a good book because most of us on here grow up knowing the game. Maybe try one of the "for dummies" books. [url="http://www.dummies.com/WileyCDA/DummiesTitle/productCd-0764552295.html"]Dummies.com[/url] [img]http://community.sigames.com/customicons/icon14.gif[/img]

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There's some good stuff on the game in here

[url="http://community.sigames.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/1519717/m/1632017743"]http://community.sigames.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/1519717/m/1632017743[/url]

Any other questions just post in this thread and someone will help if they can. Or alternatively get out while you still have your sanity (and a healthy marriage) [img]http://community.sigames.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif[/img]

Also a good tip for figuring out attributes for positions is to use the player search and then arrange by value. This should give you a list of the top well known players in the different positions.

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Welcome! I was in your boat a few years ago and just keep asking questions and keep playing. Also, I bought Soccer for Dummies and it has the basics in there.

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[B]Elan![/B]

Makes my day that you've finally taken the plunge!! [img]http://community.sigames.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif[/img]

I'd actually love some good books on football tactics and strategy - something a step above the "Dummies" books, maybe going through the history and evolution of formations, etc. All we get here in the States is aimed at providing parent-coaches with "drills" for youth rec-league practices.

Regarding your questions, I think you've got answers for most of 'em:

2) For the first friendlies, I play 45 minutes, sub out eleven players, and have the "second team" play the second half. Then I play them longer and longer as the preseason wears on, closing up with a final friendly about 10 days before the first "real" match in which I play almost every starter for 90 minutes.

4) Yikes. What is each position responsible for? Woof.

GK - Goalie - Uses his hands to keep the ball out of the net. [img]http://community.sigames.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif[/img]

SW - Sweeper - Tends to be a central defender given a lot of freedom to roam around the back line, wherever he thinks he's needed. Not much used in modern formations, was very popular ten to twenty years ago, I think. I haven't used one in FM.

DC - Central defender - Typically tall strong players, who can muscle an opponent off the ball and win aerial crosses. Would tend to "man mark" the opposition strikers. Should "stay back" even when the team is attacking, though many managers send them forward on corner kicks.

DL/DR - Fullback - The "wide" defender. Typically a bit faster and shorter than the central defender. Tends to "man mark" the opposition wingers. Might or might not be given the freedom to get forward into the attack.

WBL/WBR - Wingback - Used in place of a fullback, and man-marks the opposition wingers.. but is expected to get forward and into attack much more. Attacks like a winger, defends like a fullback; therefore needs a ton of stamina.

DM - Defensive midfielder - I've been using this a lot in my games; its a midfielder who sits in front of my central defenders. He's a double threat - to intercept low passes for the opposition strikers, or to "close down" any opposition midfielder. Sometimes ranges sideline to sideline to break up attacks - but the fact that he's doing so means my defense can "hold their shape", and be better positioned for opposition attackers.

MC - Central Midfielder - Depending on your instructions to him, he's most likely a "box to box" midfielder, meaning he'll range from your eighteen to your opponent's eighteen. Ideally a hard working (Work Rate) player with plenty of stamina, responsible for both attack and defense. Two good central midfielders and you can really dominate a lower division! [img]http://community.sigames.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif[/img]

ML/MR/AML/AMR - Wingers - By attacking the flanks, they either get one-on-one treatment with the opposition fullbacks, or they drag somebody else out of the middle. Typically very fast, good dribblers, who can cross the ball very well. Like an MC, though, a true winger is expected to track back and contribute in defense.

AMC - Attacking Midfielder - Typically the Creative playmaker whose brilliant Passing will rip apart the opposition defense, making chances for his teammates.. and ideally, one who can score Long Shots if nobody closes him down. Probably not expected to play too much defense.

FL/FR - Forward - Wide attackers, who will attack somewhat like a winger, but will also need to be able to cut inside and shoot. Not expected to track back in defense.

SC - Striker - Striker. Finishing. The man who bangs the ball into the back of the net, by hook or by crook. There's plenty of different ways to do it: the tall Target Man who scores plenty of goals on headers, the short speedster with blistering Pace, the artiste whose breathtaking Technique and Flair astounds and confounds defenders, and the goal-poacher who just hangs out in the box looking for rebounds.

If you imagine your attack looking something like this:

<pre class="ip-ubbcode-code-pre"> DL AML
DC MC SC
GK
DC MC SC
DR AMR</pre>
You can see how almost every player has three options in relatively close proximity to him: the DC has the other DC, the DL, and the MC... the MC has a DL, an AML, and the other MC... the AML has the SC, an MC, and the backpass to his DL...

A typical attack might build up as follows: GK to DC(r) to DR to MC(r) to MC(l) to AML to SC(l) to SC(r) - shoot, score! [img]http://community.sigames.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif[/img] .. but you can see on the little map that none of those passes had to be too long. That's not to say the DR didn't think about hoofing a long ball for the SC(r) to run onto...

If you're trying to design your own formation from scratch, that's the sort of thing you want to remember: keep people providing options for each other! [img]http://community.sigames.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif[/img]

Look how the "diamond" midfield provides its natural linkages:

<pre class="ip-ubbcode-code-pre">
DL ML
DC SC
GK DMC AMC
DC SC
DR MR</pre>

5. I'd recommend starting with Ajax (Holland). The expectations will be very high, but in the Dutch divisions you should be able to stay in the top three pretty easily, while also getting a real challenge in the Champions League encounters. Plus they have such brilliant attackers that its always fun to watch them play. [img]http://community.sigames.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif[/img] Man-U is also a good place for beginners, and their debt structure will teach you to watch your finances, which is good practice for lower leagues. [img]http://community.sigames.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif[/img]

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Okay, the rest of these lads can tell you that's probably more smilies than I've used the whole rest of my posting career. [img]http://community.sigames.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif[/img]

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Thank you gents and amaroq! [img]http://community.sigames.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif[/img]

Thanks to my old one-nil game (still have the darn 5 1/4 diskette, can't bear to part with it!) I have a basic understanding of formations (who plays where, not strengths and weaknesses).

I did print out some of amaroq's posts, the FM07 hints and tips, and rashidi's tactical bible and have read them all through more than once and am muddling my way through Amaroq's rusty blade story for the second time.

As for the healthy marriage, it's way too late for that, between Eastside Hockey Manager, Front Office (american) Football, Diamond Mind Baseball and Puresim Baseball and now FM... let's just say that when my wife tells my 5 year old to go see daddy, first stop is at the computer [img]http://community.sigames.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif[/img] Luckily my wife is understanding enough to tolerate my sports gaming, besides procrastination and general laziness, it's my one real vice! [img]http://community.sigames.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif[/img]

Thanks again, for both putting up with the really basic questions and for taking the time to help! Expect many many more, but now it's time to turn on the world series and start a new short term fm career!

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Just another massive thank you for the talkfootball.co.uk link!
and one more small question about statistics? just to get a ballpark baseline.

What would be considered (for a team) a lot of shots? an avg amt of shot? I understand it will depend on the formation, styles of play etc, but just average it all out?

goals/assists for individuals? what would a high end or a good season be? a historical type season?

Finally, for team passing, what is a good range to be in, 75%+?

It's hard to try to evaluate a team with no basis for what's considered good, bad or average!

Thanks again!

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I'd say something that would really help you to into the game quicker would be to take a little more interest in real life football, get an RSS feed from somewhere like skysports.com or something and just read up on some of the goings on and watch some videos - even things like post match analysis (if they are online somewhere) will help you out as comments are made about how and why a player is doing well or poorly in their position, discussions on manager decisions and questioning them, where teams are strong and weak and why - which is all knowledge you can take into the game. FM is trying to be a simulation of real life, so the more you understand about the real life world of football, the easier the game is to pick up and play in my opinion.

Naturally there are some things in games you won't find being discussed in this sort of thing, such as training and manager/player interaction for example - but...

[quote]I'm friendly with Amaroq from the forums through another game and while I will be pestering him with most of my obvious questions, i'll give him a break here! [img]http://community.sigames.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif[/img] [/quote]

...you have a good and very helpful mentor there (and a rather obsessive one) that I am sure will point you in the right direction - and it won't be long before you're creating complex tactics, telling everyone to use notes in game, suggestiong possible improvements to SI and starting a one man campaign to get everyone writing in FM Stories [img]http://community.sigames.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif[/img]

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Um, I tend to see shots range from 1 to 20+ for a single match; I always feel like I'm doing well if I've gotten 10 or more, maybe 6 or more "on target", and frustrated if we've taken 6 or fewer shots in a game.

Goals for individuals is typically measured as "goals per game", and 1 goal every 2 games is phenomenal for a striker at the highest levels. At lower levels you may see a dominant player bang in a goal a game, but he really belongs further up the ladder. [img]http://community.sigames.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif[/img] 1 goal every 3 is more likely. 20+ will be a very good season, equivalent to say 40 home runs.

Team passing.. not sure, and does vary a lot by level (as higher quality players are much more likely to string three passes together in succession). I'm typically looking for "more than my opposition". [img]http://community.sigames.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif[/img]

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[img]http://community.sigames.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif[/img][img]http://community.sigames.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif[/img][img]http://community.sigames.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif[/img] LMAO @ paulsgruff. [img]http://community.sigames.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif[/img][img]http://community.sigames.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif[/img][img]http://community.sigames.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif[/img]

Wha', who, ME?

**best innocent grin**

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[quote]Originally posted by Amaroq:
[B]Elan![/B] [/quote]

curses! so much for traveling incognito! [img]http://community.sigames.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif[/img]

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paulsgruff,

Actually, thanks to DV, I've got 2 24 hour football (see, I'm not barbaric enough to call it soccer here! <G>, now if only I can slip in a "whilst" here and there, I'll be mistaken for a wily vet!) channels that I've been watching more and more. The problem I find is that most broadcasts and announcers take for granted that most of the intricacies are common knowledge. True enough most places, just not for us heathen colonials! [img]http://community.sigames.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif[/img]

I like your idea for post match analysis alot, although I'd have to try to find one for a game that I can watch.

Just like other sports, you get a totally different picture of a game when you're there as opposed to on TV, since on TV they tend to follow the ball, but when you're there you can pay close attention to the big picture and pick a position to watch and see how they react to different situations.

That'll be the hardest part for me, I believe, picking up the intricacies of the game. The big strategy should be relatively easy, and I'll also have to get into the proper frame of mind, coming from an ice hockey background, with a smaller surface, much more offense and unlimited substitutions. Oh, and a lot more ice!

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[quote]Originally posted by sposfan:
Just another massive thank you for the talkfootball.co.uk link!
and one more small question about statistics? just to get a ballpark baseline.

What would be considered (for a team) a lot of shots? an avg amt of shot? I understand it will depend on the formation, styles of play etc, but just average it all out?

goals/assists for individuals? what would a high end or a good season be? a historical type season?

Finally, for team passing, what is a good range to be in, 75%+?

It's hard to try to evaluate a team with no basis for what's considered good, bad or average!

Thanks again! [/quote]

Hello sposfan,

When it comes to shots it depends not the number but the quality. You can generate 20 shots on goal, but if these are from distance and are 'long shots' then its a desperate attempt and a sure sign that you are not getting penetration. Ideally you want to be looking at goals/shots on target. This is a better measure. Try and keep the ratio as low as possible and you will know that you are doing well. 70-80% is a good target to aim for and it means you are very dangerous. Total shots in my opinion is not a good measure

Another thing you want to be looking at is Action Zones, these are graphical representations of possession by pitch area. The pitch is divided into 3 boxes, defense, midfield and offense. When you have high possession % as depicted in your match stats screen you will want to refer to Action Zones to see where these are predominantly occurring in. I have seen people get as high as 60% possession, but they don't score. When they look at the Action Zones they discover their possession is mainly in defense and midfield. The goal here is to try and be good overall or to dominate midfield outright and offense. There is more in the sticky in the tactics forum that should really help you its called the FAQ.

When it comes to goals and assists, it really depends on the kind of formation you have. If you know you want to create a tactic which is dependant on goals coming from the flanks then you want good assists from the wingers. This will be the first sign that your tactic is coming together. I personally like tactics to have 3 main ways of scoring. Through the flanks, from midfield and from set-pieces. So I generally aim to get good assists in all areas. Depending on the level you play, 20 goals a season from a striker is a must if you want to be considered a contender.

For team passing, it all depends on your style of play. A counter attacking formation generates lower passing percentages then a slow probing formation. You need to decide on what kind of formations you want to have and then you should use passing % to see how close to the mark you are:

In general:

Slow passing probing possession : 80% passing
Counterattacking: 70-75%
Defensive football: 75% passing

There is a basis to determine if a side is good or bad. If you are looking at just measuring how your players stack up its covered in the FAQ. In general you want to look at attributes and what the league average is. For instance in the premiership or any topflight league, you want passing for top playmakers to be at least 15. Key attributes for key positions need to be around 15...and then these get lower for different leagues...

hope that helps

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Rashidi,

[quote] hope that helps [/quote]


Thank you for the welcome and it does!


Paulsgruff... sorry, can't edit posts, meant dTv (directv)

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[quote]Originally posted by sposfan:
paulsgruff,

Actually, thanks to DV, I've got 2 24 hour football (see, I'm not barbaric enough to call it soccer here! <G>, now if only I can slip in a "whilst" here and there, I'll be mistaken for a wily vet!) channels that I've been watching more and more. The problem I find is that most broadcasts and announcers take for granted that most of the intricacies are common knowledge. True enough most places, just not for us heathen colonials! [img]http://community.sigames.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif[/img]

I like your idea for post match analysis alot, although I'd have to try to find one for a game that I can watch.

Just like other sports, you get a totally different picture of a game when you're there as opposed to on TV, since on TV they tend to follow the ball, but when you're there you can pay close attention to the big picture and pick a position to watch and see how they react to different situations.

That'll be the hardest part for me, I believe, picking up the intricacies of the game. The big strategy should be relatively easy, and I'll also have to get into the proper frame of mind, coming from an ice hockey background, with a smaller surface, much more offense and unlimited substitutions. Oh, and a lot more ice! [/quote]

You're lucky, I never get to see hockey games because of the time they are usually on TV here and how it unbelievably always seems to coincide perfectly with when I am at work (I'm a penguins fan, they're doing okay at the moment too!)

In my opinion the intricacies are quite well dealt with in FM. I can see where you're coming from though about how TV portrays the game and the amount of action and important events that happen off screen and how it could hinder learning what makes a player good for the positions he plays in.

The nice thing about FM is that the attributes are very easy to understand - you could literally look up a dictionary definition of most and know instantly how it would relate to what they make the player be able to do - and once you know from real life experience what is important for a player to be able to play his role effectively - then it's just a fair bit of common sense that comes into realising which attributes go hand in hand and will make him suitable for his job. For example, a defender that has terrible attributes for scoring goals shouldn't worry you, but if he can't tackle and doesn't regularly get his positioning or decisions right then you might find him making more mistakes than you are willing to put up with.

Another great and not often mentioned thing about FM is that it is as deep as you want it to be, if you want to get involved in all the tactics, control the reserves and the youth team and do all of the media interaction while juggling your budgets around - then you are free to. Then again, if you just want to sign players and let someone else do all the work then you can holiday the matches and let your assistant manager play them for you etc - there are so many variations of style, even if you asked everyone in this thread how they play the game, most people are almost always going to be different - which is one of the reasons that it can be so interesting talking to people just starting out and trying to learn about it.

Back on topic, tactics are naturally extremely important (if you plan on playing the matches yourself) and are hard to cover simply. One of the great things about football is that any team, no matter how big or small, can potentially beat another team as the starting conditions for both is always the same and there is no handicap involved - which means that it can often come down to tactical decisions (and of course some luck). Instead of trying to explain anything here, I will leave it to people that have already done it, and done it far better than I would have been able to do. I didn't check through all the links in the posts in this thread, so sorry if this has already been posted, but there are some very informative threads in the tactics forum. The one I would always recommend that people take a look at is [url="http://community.sigames.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/1519717/m/2242071292"]this[/url] one by wwfan. I would say that, for a beginner, it is far more useful as an information source than a tactics reference book would be as it explains things in terms that are relative to the games match engine and gives you an insight into how to get players to do what you want them to do in game. Some of the information may be outdated with the newly improved AI, but the theory is technically still the same, just how it is applied may be slightly different now.

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Paulsgruff,

Thank you for the link, I had not seen that one previously. Going to have to replace that ink cartridge soon at this rate!

For everyone else...

seeing as how my football knowledge pretty much stagnated in the 80's, is there a particular reason for the demise of the sweeper? For those knowledgeable about US football, I see him almost as a free safety, able to move freely to where the point of attack is. I would guess that Obviously something happened to counter what effectiveness he had, but is it really countered or is it more a matter of a few successful teams moved away from using a sweeper and the other teams just followed the leaders?

Going to be a big penguins/montreal game this weekend, if you send me an email to sposfanATsympaticoDOTca, I can record it to our vhs and mail it to you. No dvd burner for the tv yet unfortunately, but you can always have it transferred to the system of your choice.

Elan

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Shoot,<STRIKE>one</STRIKE> two more FM question(s).

I understand that I can leave the training in the assman's hands (boy, does THAT sound dirty!!!), but will he adjust them as needed, or does he pretty much just keep everyone in general or goalkeepers? I know I can download training regimens too, but just curious!

Also which, if any add-ons do people recommend? I know there are facepacks and soundpacks and more!

thank you all again for your help and patience.

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You really don't need to bother too much with training. IMO
Check what your assmans best attribute is(hopefully tactical training), then assign him as the only coach for that training(ie tactical). Then search for coaches with the filter so you can find the best attacking coach you can get and the best defensive coach etc. etc.
Then put them in charge of their suited training style(only 1 training regime for each coach, look at the stars) and away you go, do the same for the youth team and need never go back to training again.
After a while you might go and try to set up your own groups and stuff, but the players still improve a fair amount with the basic set up.

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With regards to sweepers falling out of fashion, I would guess it boils down to if you play a sweeper it leaves you a man light elsewhere (normally you would play a sweeper in behind 2 central defenders). Plus central defenders have improved a lot over the years. They were quite often the biggest, strongest but least skillful players who would just defend by out muscling the attackers, but now they tend to be a lot quicker and a lot more skillful, so they can almost do the same job as a sweeper.

Best of luck learning the game. I'm just getting into NFL, and by far the best thing I did was sit down and talk through a whole game with a far more knowledgeable friend. Having someone with you able to point out why players are doing what they are doing etc was a massive help.

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[quote]Originally posted by amack1n:
Welcome to Football manager!

1) The (P) is either your physio or the opposing teams physio. I think they only do something when one of your players has a light injury and go over to your physio for treatment. The [B](+)[/B] are medics, and run onto the pitch when a player needs to be carried off.
[/quote]
I know it's just a plus sign in parenthesis but somehow I find it very em,.... uplifting.
Very aesthetically pleasing somehow!

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HonkyDick,
thanks for the tips! I think my problem will be if I do play Hartlepool (a lower league team) my staff budget is pretty much maxed out already with my assman, goaltenders coach, general coach, scout, 2 physios and youth coach. I have to "make do" with less, but for my "learning about the game" team (premier div), I'll do as you say!

Actually just found out from a tip while booting up the game to doublecheck my staff that all staff will accept mutual termination contracts when i take over a team, but since my team's crappy assman is signed through 20[B]12!![/B] it still doesn't pay since if I understand Amaroq's Rusty Blade story, I still have a to pay 'em!

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bigdunk,

ah, gotcha, thanks for the lesson! As for the NFL, I think you'll have more "fun" with that, since there are so many more rules and specialties.

Humber,

took me a second! Think of it as a good likeness of my assman! <VBG>

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[quote]Originally posted by Humber:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by amack1n:
Welcome to Football manager!

1) The (P) is either your physio or the opposing teams physio. I think they only do something when one of your players has a light injury and go over to your physio for treatment. The [B](+)[/B] are medics, and run onto the pitch when a player needs to be carried off.
[/quote]
I know it's just a plus sign in parenthesis but somehow I find it very em,.... uplifting.
Very aesthetically pleasing somehow! </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

What can I say Humber, apart from "I am to please" [img]http://community.sigames.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif[/img]

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[quote]Originally posted by bigdunk:
Best of luck learning the game. I'm just getting into NFL, and by far the best thing I did was sit down and talk through a whole game with a far more knowledgeable friend. Having someone with you able to point out why players are doing what they are doing etc was a massive help. [/quote]
That's a really good point - speaking in general, what I've noticed is that people who declare a sport "boring" usually don't understand the sport. Once you have some level of understanding, you start seeing a lot more subtlety in it.

[quote]Actually just found out from a tip while booting up the game to doublecheck my staff that all staff will accept mutual termination contracts when i take over a team, but since my team's crappy assman is signed through 2012!! it still doesn't pay since if I understand Amaroq's Rusty Blade story, I still have a to pay 'em! [/quote]
Yes, you would. [img]http://community.sigames.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif[/img]

You might - if you're lucky - be able to renegotiate from a 5-year contract to a 1-year contract, and then terminate 'em.

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now that doesn't seem too sporting!! <G> Who the heck hires these stiffs to a FIVE year contract!?!? I can understand if they were at least ALMOST average, let alone good!

One more quick question? Hartlepool, I have 2 physios, are they both needed, or is one sufficient? Also should I try for more than one scout and maybe another coach or just make do with the scrap I have? What does a staff at that level consist of numbers wise usually?

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If you're learning from Amaroq, you're in good hands. For an American, he ain't bad. [img]http://community.sigames.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif[/img]

It's funny that I learnt all my initial knowledge of the NFL from Madden 2004 and got into American Football that way, learning the rules. I used to enjoy Madden 95, (top down on the Gameboy) but never understood the rules and got immensely frustrated when I could only run one play or so and got turnover on downs so often when the opposition never seemed to.

Now that I understand the rules I revisited Madden 95 a while back and found I could pass, run and do all kinds of crazy sh** [img]http://community.sigames.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif[/img]


A good way of understanding football would be to actually just watch a game on FM in full, no highlights, just the match engine in full. You'll learn how certain positions will move in given and different situations and what happens at certain "set-pieces".

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[quote] One more quick question? Hartlepool, I have 2 physios, are they both needed, or is one sufficient? [/quote]

This is one question that I don't think anyone knows a definitive answer to. One thing about physios on 07 was that their reputation rather than their physiotherapy attribute had more impact on how accurately they could predict how long a player would be out with an injury.

[quote] Also should I try for more than one scout and maybe another coach or just make do with the scrap I have? What does a staff at that level consist of numbers wise usually? [/quote]

On 08 the board appear to be very sensitive so I would advise to make sure you don't go over their recommendations for how many you have. This side of the game is more 'Football Club Accountant 2008' for me as I always based these decisions on finances e.g. how are my attendance figures doing, will my future income cover additional wages, can I afford to pay compensation to the guy I'm sacking and the coach I want to bring in's club etc.

The best way to get an idea of attributes for your level is to look at the other teams in your league. Personally I look for the best who is willing to sign for me. It is time consuming and tedious but it pays in the long run. I would also recommend checking out the FAQ in the tactics section as it outlines the different attributes to achieve different star levels in training.

For players like myself who are tactically inept scouting is pretty much where I win or lose so the more scouts the better for me. If playing in the EU Romania and Poland are great for good cheap prospects. But this will depend on where your board will let your scouts go.

On 07 Judging Player Ability and Judging Player potential determined the accuracy of reports but it appeared that reputation affected how in depth the report would be. Not sure if this has been tweaked for 08.

Once you get a feel for attributes for different positions then you can pretty much ignore the 'Judging Player Ability' attribute as you can do that yourself by looking at their profile. The key to success in this game for me has always been finding talented youngsters on the cheap and allowing them to develop, although I think the 08 Board Confidence thing might make this more difficult.

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[quote]Originally posted by Wegason:
A good way of understanding football would be to actually just watch a game on FM in full, no highlights, just the match engine in full. You'll learn how certain positions will move in given and different situations and what happens at certain "set-pieces". [/quote]

Wegason, that's exactly what I'm doing! I've also found, that since only the the ball carrier and the most recent/next player's name are shown on the pitch, that if you click another player, it will show his name as well, no matter where he is and I can watch a specific player/position much easier that way.

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[quote]Originally posted by isuckatfm:

This is one question that I don't think anyone knows a definitive answer to. One thing about physios on 07 was that their reputation rather than their physiotherapy attribute had more impact on how accurately they could predict how long a player would be out with an injury. [/quote]

Thanks for the help, but follow up question if I may. Would 2 physios be more beneficial than just one? Would it be better to have one better physio than two average ones? If I have one physio better than the other, would the weaker physio drag down the good one, making him a major detriment to my team?

[quote]
On 08 the board appear to be very sensitive so I would advise to make sure you don't go over their recommendations for how many you have. This side of the game is more 'Football Club Accountant 2008' for me as I always based these decisions on finances e.g. how are my attendance figures doing, will my future income cover additional wages, can I afford to pay compensation to the guy I'm sacking and the coach I want to bring in's club etc.

The best way to get an idea of attributes for your level is to look at the other teams in your league. Personally I look for the best who is willing to sign for me. It is time consuming and tedious but it pays in the long run. I would also recommend checking out the FAQ in the tactics section as it outlines the different attributes to achieve different star levels in training.

For players like myself who are tactically inept scouting is pretty much where I win or lose so the more scouts the better for me. If playing in the EU Romania and Poland are great for good cheap prospects. But this will depend on where your board will let your scouts go.

On 07 Judging Player Ability and Judging Player potential determined the accuracy of reports but it appeared that reputation affected how in depth the report would be. Not sure if this has been tweaked for 08.

Once you get a feel for attributes for different positions then you can pretty much ignore the 'Judging Player Ability' attribute as you can do that yourself by looking at their profile. The key to success in this game for me has always been finding talented youngsters on the cheap and allowing them to develop, although I think the 08 Board Confidence thing might make this more difficult. [/quote]

Thanks for the scouting hints, you guys are invaluable and much more helpful than any written guide.

Oh, and I simply love your screen name, although based on your knowledge, you might want to pass that mantle on to me!

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[quote]Thanks for the help, but follow up question if I may. Would 2 physios be more beneficial than just one? Would it be better to have one better physio than two average ones? If I have one physio better than the other, would the weaker physio drag down the good one, making him a major detriment to my team? [/quote]

I haven't got 08 so I don't know if any changes have been made but on 07 persionally I found it difficult to tell if there was any improvement from going from 1 physio to 4 physios. I even checked over player injury histories to see if any noticeable reductions happened in the number of injuries and recovery times. The only one I noticed was that with certain types of injuries (fractured ribs IIRC) the recovery time was a couple of weeks quicker with the 'world class' physio. I would emphasise that reputation rather than attributes seemed to govern their effectiveness.

I think the best approach is to assume the game behaves like real life and that the more physios you have the better you can deal with injury crises. I don't think anyone from SI has ever cleared this issue up but maybe the new manual has something in it.

The one bad physio dragging down another I really don't know. I honestly think that the game just has a database of injuries/recovery ranges which are then matched to your best physio to determine the length of injury. If you have more than one physio in 07 the reports were generated automatically by the best physio which might be an indication of how the game code itself treats injuries.

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[quote]Originally posted by Wegason:
If you're learning from Amaroq, you're in good hands. For an American, he ain't bad. [img]http://community.sigames.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif[/img] [/quote]
[img]http://community.sigames.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif[/img]

[quote]Originally posted by Wegason:
A good way of understanding football would be to actually just watch a game on FM in full, no highlights, just the match engine in full. You'll learn how certain positions will move in given and different situations and what happens at certain "set-pieces". [/quote]
That's an excellent idea; it wouldn't have worked so well four or five versions ago but the match engine with FM'08 is very very good.

In particular, I'd recommend watching [B]away from the ball[/B], for example, for one match watch only your strikers; on another watch your back four. Even if the ball is way down in your end.

[quote]Originally posted by isuckatfm:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by sposfan:
One more quick question? Hartlepool, I have 2 physios, are they both needed, or is one sufficient? [/quote]
This is one question that I don't think anyone knows a definitive answer to. One thing about physios on 07 was that their reputation rather than their physiotherapy attribute had more impact on how accurately they could predict how long a player would be out with an injury. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
At one point in [B]Blade[/B], I went through a significant injury crisis, which I think was related to not having enough physios *for the size of my squad*. I'd been adding players, adding players, adding players, without adding physios, and wham, all of a sudden everybody, from my superstars to my sixteen years olds, seemed to get hurt. When I added a physio, the problem went away.

I don't think anybody knows what the ratio is, but there is one.

[quote]Originally posted by isuckatfm:
For players like myself who are tactically inept scouting is pretty much where I win or lose so the more scouts the better for me. If playing in the EU Romania and Poland are great for good cheap prospects. But this will depend on where your board will let your scouts go. [/quote]
True for me, too. Remember that it depends on database size and active leagues, too; scouting Sweden may not do you much good if you're in a small DB with only English leagues active.. but if you've got the Swedish leagues active and/or are on a large DB, it can be a veritable goldmine.

Starting at Hartlepool, your board is going to seriously limit your scouts' travels, so stick to the Home Nations for a time.

[quote]Originally posted by isuckatfm:
Once you get a feel for attributes for different positions then you can pretty much ignore the 'Judging Player Ability' attribute as you can do that yourself by looking at their profile. The key to success in this game for me has always been finding talented youngsters on the cheap and allowing them to develop, although I think the 08 Board Confidence thing might make this more difficult. [/quote]
The one thing "Judging Current Ability" is good for is identifying "hidden attributes". Two players who might appear identical based on the visible attributes might have very different hidden attributes which impact their ability: consistency, big matches, professionalism, etc. So don't ignore it entirely.. use it as a red flag (or green flag) if their opinion doesn't match your own.

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Amaroq,

Thanks for the additional hints, I'm going to be keeping you busy! As for the watching away from the ball, you've just confirmed you don't read MY posts! <VBG>

I already do that! I find it helps to pick a player, click him on the pitch so his name shows, which makes him easier to follow and track. See, I'm not TOTALLY hopeless!

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[quote]Originally posted by Amaroq:
True for me, too. Remember that it depends on database size and active leagues, too; scouting Sweden may not do you much good if you're in a small DB with only English leagues active.. but if you've got the Swedish leagues active and/or are on a large DB, it can be a veritable goldmine.

Starting at Hartlepool, your board is going to seriously limit your scouts' travels, so stick to the Home Nations for a time. [/quote]

My current setup is England only, small DB, so I'll be concentrating on the Home Islands for now. I figure that a smaller world, with a smaller DB will make it easier to run a first career.

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[quote]Originally posted by sposfan:
Amaroq,

Thanks for the additional hints, I'm going to be keeping you busy! As for the watching away from the ball, you've just confirmed you don't read MY posts! <VBG>

I already do that! I find it helps to pick a player, click him on the pitch so his name shows, which makes him easier to follow and track. See, I'm not TOTALLY hopeless! [/quote]
[img]http://community.sigames.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif[/img]

That or I started my response at 9:33, before you posted that bit... [img]http://community.sigames.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif[/img]

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[quote] The one thing "Judging Current Ability" is good for is identifying "hidden attributes". Two players who might appear identical based on the visible attributes might have very different hidden attributes which impact their ability: consistency, big matches, professionalism, etc. So don't ignore it entirely.. use it as a red flag (or green flag) if their opinion doesn't match your own [/quote]

So they actually incorporate hidden attributes into this? Thanks for the tip [img]http://community.sigames.com/customicons/icon14.gif[/img]

I always thought that if they were at a relevant level and the scout was good enough they got included in the report e.g. "Scout A feels Player B to be a fairly consistent performer" or "Scout A feels Player B may have trouble living in a new country".

Now that I write that, another key thing in buying young foreign players is if the scout indicates thay might have problems settling in a foreign country then avoid them if:-

1. you don't have players of the same nationality at the club.
2. you don't intend giving them too much first team football.

I first noticed this when I bought a young Italian guy. I generally paid little attention to training prior to this happening, but I noticed his attributes hadn't been changing whatsoever. I checked his trining screen and his training history had all of the bars at very low levels for every month since he had joined. Then two weeks or so after I noticed this I got a media message about his difficulty settling, and this was followed by a transfer request.

The cliff notes to that little story would be that players lack of adaptability can severely hamper their development. Also their training levels can give a good indication of their happiness in conjunction with their profile.

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Thanks for the foreign player tip! You guys are really a big help! I really appreciate all the time and thought you put into my questions!

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One major question:

I'm looking to improve my assistant manager, what would the most important attributes for an assistant manager be? In EHM, the way I used the assistant was to use him for his judging current and potential abilities.

In FM I understand that he also can give the team talks if I want, so I think for that motivating would be important and possibly man management for training.

I don't think his tactical knowledge is THAT important, since I can use whichever staff I want to recommend the lineup and tactics.

Any advice on this front?

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It definitely depends what you think you'll be using him for.

For FM'08, since I can't change the default person who gives Coach Reports, I think JA/JP are going to be the two most important attributes for me.

If you let him give the team talks - or just advise you - then yeah you'll want plenty on the motivation front.

If you let him manage games for you, then Tactical knowledge will be very important, but if you don't its not too useful.

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You've pretty much got it right there, he's just the assistant, so he doesnt need to excel in all areas. Obviously, it's a plus to good stats accross the board, but the main ones I aim for are:

Man Management - Determines how good he is at keeping morale up and generally handling players. Not so important if you do your own team talks, but remember, he'll most likely be managing your reserve team

Working with youngsters - I doubt lots of people will have this as a must have attribute. If you're a big team with a youth coach, this sin't as important. But if you're a small team who can't (or won't) employ a youth coach and you have a lot of youngsters, this is important for their development

Judging Player Ability & Judging Player Potential - With the improved coach reports, it's easy to see your assistants opinions on all your players. This is important if you ever have your assistant pick the team or just look for his opinion on one of your players. If his attributes in this area are low, there's more chance that the 18 year old striker he told you to sell could become a world beater.

Motivating - For getting that extra bit out of players in matches and training.

Also, any coaching attributes in an area you're training isn't good in (so if your Defending training is at only 3 stars, signing an assistant with a good Defensive Coaching attribute will help in training)

So, to recap:

Man Management, Motivating, Judging Player Ability, Judging Player Potential, any specific coaching stat and, if you're a smaller team, Working With Youngsters

This isn't a definitive answer, but thats what I generally look for. Someone might have a different (and better) idea

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Thanks again, and just an FYI, according to the patch list I read on the Front Office Football boards:

[quote]- Coach report screen remembers which coach you were using to get reports when moving between players [/quote]

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amack1n,

Thank you as well, the only downside to all this help is that I'm regretting not purchasing the game years ago.

It's extremely helpful getting all these different points of views, since in sims like this there really is no one right answer.

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if you want a couple of good teams to start out with, villa and everton would be my picks
they have solid squads, money to augment them and lower expectations than the top clubs

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[quote]Originally posted by sposfan:
amack1n,

Thank you as well, the only downside to all this help is that I'm regretting not purchasing the game years ago.

It's extremely helpful getting all these different points of views, since in sims like this there really is no one right answer. [/quote]

No worries. There was a time about a decade again, when even I could have done with some help

Now I'm the fully fledged Football Manager Champion Superstar Master of the World [img]http://community.sigames.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif[/img]

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Btw if I remember correctly the sweeper started to fade out as teams started to get defenders who were pacey and able to play an offside trap.

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Hey there,

I actually became interested in football mainly due to Championship Manager 1 and Sensible World of Soccer about what, 12 years ago ? These days I am a season ticket holder at Leeds.

Anyway... lots of good advice in this thread but my advice would be:

Play as a big easy team, don't worry about tactics too much at this stage, just try and have some fun and see what you pick up along the way.

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[quote]Originally posted by foxmad:
Btw if I remember correctly the sweeper started to fade out as teams started to get defenders who were pacey and able to play an offside trap. [/quote]

Do you mean real football or FM? Cos I know using a sweeper is very much alive in Sunday football

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