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DerKopite

Just a Few Basic Questions

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I've played FM rather subconsciously for quite a few years now, and it finally seems to have started the catch up with me. As the AI improves, obviously, the game get's harder and I have to concentrate on the game more. Which, I'm looking to do. Firstly though, I have a couple of questions as I find it hard to learn via reading things; I need a bit more of a visual representation or to be explained to me like I'm 5. 

  • Does the width instruction determine how wide your team plays during attacking transitions only, or as a whole? I'm pretty sure mentality determines the defensive transitions, but I'm not too sure. 
  • Could anybody provide me with a visual guide to shapes? I find it hard to visualise via the explanations on here. I visualise structured kind of being more lazy; less movement, more space in between players and in an attacking sense I can't really fathom how this is a good thing. But, with the success I've saw via the likes of Rashidi, it obviously is. 
  • 4-3-3's. I've forever struggled with them; specifically due to my failure to fill the space between the Attacking strata and the Midfield strata. I've had forwards dropping deep, but it seems as though when they receive the ball, they turn and shoot a lot from 40-or-so yards - regardless of the instructions I have on. Then if I have a winger cutting in, compensating with a full-back for width seems to leave me exposed and I'm just not satisfied with AP [A]'s and CM [A]'s.  
  • Does tempo vary from mentality, to mentality? E.g. If I have the tempo bar set to the default it would be on control, whilst on defensive, will I be playing to the tempo of control in theory?
  • Finally: if your team has lower than average teamwork, what way should I play? 

They are very basic questions, but questions I've seemed to avoid until now. I've had success on FM17, don't get me wrong, but I'm looking to expand my knowledge a bit and hope you can help me. 

Thanks for any help in advance!

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I'm guilty of a similar issue - I've tended to plug & play tactics without really taking the time to understand them; any time I have tried to create from scratch, it tends to end badly. 

Either I have suddenly become more interested in the detail or, more likely, I have stumbled onto interesting posts about tactics (thank you O-zil...even if you are a gunner) that has got me thinking. 

On the downside, this means that I can't answer your questions - I could speculate, but that's not what you're after. However, from my reading, I suspect you will need to add in more details about your 4-3-3 efforts if you want an answer that will be helpful. You mention wingers, so I assume you aren't playing a narrow version and there is only one "out and out" striker? What roles do you assign the midfield 3? If you have one central striker, my personal thinking would be that you would want the link to come from one of your midfielders rather than having the guy you want in the box to keep dropping deep - though I suppose this also depends on the type of striker you have (big guy, pacy etc). This also has the advantage of having another person in the attack that can either score, or can pull defenders out of position. 

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1. The Width Team Instruction influences how wide your team plays when in possession, not when defending.

2. Check Rashidi's Bust the Net channel on You Tube.  Nobody explains it better.

3. You'd need to provide full detail of your system.

4. Changing mentality does indeed change the default tempo setting.  Defensive uses a slow tempo whereas Attacking is fast.  Each notch up mentality causes a step change to tempo (and lots of other things as well).

5. Define lower than average.  If you have a team full of Balotellis in a top division you're going to have problems.  On the flip side if you are playing in the lower leagues pretty much every player you come across will have a low team work rating, yet people still put together successful systems.  But it's not just about team work, it's about all attributes and a balanced tactical system.  Don't forget as well that sometimes you need players in specific roles to have low team work - a Poacher for example is supposed to be a selfish goal moocher, so a high team work rating for him is probably a bad idea.  TL;DR, there's no one size fits all, you need to try things out and see what works and what doesn't.

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1 hour ago, Jorsin said:

I'm guilty of a similar issue - I've tended to plug & play tactics without really taking the time to understand them; any time I have tried to create from scratch, it tends to end badly. 

Either I have suddenly become more interested in the detail or, more likely, I have stumbled onto interesting posts about tactics (thank you O-zil...even if you are a gunner) that has got me thinking. 

On the downside, this means that I can't answer your questions - I could speculate, but that's not what you're after. However, from my reading, I suspect you will need to add in more details about your 4-3-3 efforts if you want an answer that will be helpful. You mention wingers, so I assume you aren't playing a narrow version and there is only one "out and out" striker? What roles do you assign the midfield 3? If you have one central striker, my personal thinking would be that you would want the link to come from one of your midfielders rather than having the guy you want in the box to keep dropping deep - though I suppose this also depends on the type of striker you have (big guy, pacy etc). This also has the advantage of having another person in the attack that can either score, or can pull defenders out of position. 

My usual 4-3-3 would look something like this - I'll use Liverpool as an example: 

 

6d9f9015be76405d14f013b7db738456.png

Instructions: Play wider, shorter passing, dribble more, slightly higher line and offside trap.

Mentality: Control, Fluid.

I'd also instruct the front-line to close down much more and tackle harder; might also ask Coutinho to roam.

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4 minutes ago, herne79 said:

1. The Width Team Instruction influences how wide your team plays when in possession, not when defending.

2. Check Rashidi's Bust the Net channel on You Tube.  Nobody explains it better.

3. You'd need to provide full detail of your system.

4. Changing mentality does indeed change the default tempo setting.  Defensive uses a slow tempo whereas Attacking is fast.  Each notch up mentality causes a step change to tempo (and lots of other things as well).

5. Define lower than average.  If you have a team full of Balotellis in a top division you're going to have problems.  On the flip side if you are playing in the lower leagues pretty much every player you come across will have a low team work rating, yet people still put together successful systems.  But it's not just about team work, it's about all attributes and a balanced tactical system.  Don't forget as well that sometimes you need players in specific roles to have low team work - a Poacher for example is supposed to be a selfish goal moocher, so a high team work rating for him is probably a bad idea.  TL;DR, there's no one size fits all, you need to try things out and see what works and what doesn't.

Thanks for the response!

I've watched Rashidi's videos but I still don't seem to grasp it - not too sure what it is. 

I've also included the kind of system I'd use in another reply. 

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46 minutes ago, DerKopite said:

Instructions: Play wider, shorter passing, dribble more, slightly higher line and offside trap.

Why do you use these instructions? What are you trying to achieve?  Once you know the answers to this (and it's not just "win") then you should be on your way to setting the instructions you need to achieve your aim.

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50 minutes ago, DerKopite said:

 

6d9f9015be76405d14f013b7db738456.png

 

Looking at your roles, even from your arrows it looks like the CM(A) and IF(S) will try and use the same space, yet there's a massive hole between the CM(S) and the IF(A).  As a start, why not just try swapping your CM roles over?

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16 minutes ago, alinp said:

Looking at your roles, even from your arrows it looks like the CM(A) and IF(S) will try and use the same space, yet there's a massive hole between the CM(S) and the IF(A).  As a start, why not just try swapping your CM roles over?

That was my fault; the CM [A] would normally be there. Just forgot to edit the post. 

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On ‎1‎/‎10‎/‎2017 at 06:43, DerKopite said:

I've watched Rashidi's videos but I still don't seem to grasp it - not too sure what it is. 

 

Shape is what governs how many players will participate in your transitions from defense to offense and back again. Starting on Very Structured, defensive players will maintain their defensive mentality and will not push forward to join the transitions as the ball moves into opponents half. Attackers will remain on a high mentality up the pitch and will not back track to assist the transition back to defense when the ball moves into your half. The effect is to keep your team fairly spread out from defense to attack, with only the support players responsible for transition phases.

As you move up the shape scale, to structured, flexible, fluid, every fluid, each step increases the mentality of the defending players and lessens the mentality of attacking players. In practical terms, each step up from very structured means your defenders are more involved in transitions to attack and are attackers become more involved in transitions to defense. This is accomplished through slight changes in mentality which will see defensive players come a bit higher on the pitch and take more risks, and attackers drop a bit deeper and take fewer risks. What you actually see in the match is your team become more vertically compact. It is not very noticeable from step to step, but compare a very structured shape to a very fluid shape and you will really notice the difference.

The other effect of shape is to increase creative freedom across the board for the team as you progress up the shape ladder.

I hope this makes some kind of sense to you. The best thing you can do I think is to set up a test game and watch the match in full. Start with very structured and observe how your players move during the transitions. Then switch to very fluid and watch and you'll see what I mean. As you do so, key in on a specific player at a time- a centerback or DM on defend, and also an attacker like an advanced forward. It is worth understanding because shape can be a powerful item in your manager's toolbox.

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