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Hi guys,  I Just wanted to know what role should the front three MSN (Messi, Suarez, Neymar) . Usually, we see Messi starting at AMR position but his average position in real life is close to Suarez. Meanwhile Neymar is a little bit far from the duo (I think he is definitely an Inside Forward). Suarez I believe that is a CF(S) or False Nine. But Messi to me is the hardest to decide, because I want to maximize his ability, of course. What do you think about MSN roles? And what about the PIs? Thanks!

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they are so interchangeable in real life that it would be hard to replicate. It's easier to pinpoint where they play than it is to suggest role. Neymar certainly more LW - and in FM terms IF best fits his role. Messi I would argue is a number 10 in AM but with 'roam from position' and in an asymmetric tactic... definitely sees him float in from the right hand side most of the game..  but not enough to say he is a RW/IF. So I'd start him in an AMRC position as attacking midfielder attack duty. Suarez is definitely the central striker... I guess CF(a) role is best... as he will quite often act as an advanced forward.. running the channels and supplying the other two... but he also comes into the DLF position ... and at times will act the poacher.

of course if you are Barca in FM you will have more success playing each in their FM preferred role rather than trying to replicate real life. Think they have Messi as an Inside Forward.

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1 hour ago, westy8chimp said:

they are so interchangeable in real life that it would be hard to replicate. It's easier to pinpoint where they play than it is to suggest role. Neymar certainly more LW - and in FM terms IF best fits his role. Messi I would argue is a number 10 in AM but with 'roam from position' and in an asymmetric tactic... definitely sees him float in from the right hand side most of the game..  but not enough to say he is a RW/IF. So I'd start him in an AMRC position as attacking midfielder attack duty. Suarez is definitely the central striker... I guess CF(a) role is best... as he will quite often act as an advanced forward.. running the channels and supplying the other two... but he also comes into the DLF position ... and at times will act the poacher.

of course if you are Barca in FM you will have more success playing each in their FM preferred role rather than trying to replicate real life. Think they have Messi as an Inside Forward.

I've tried Messi as IF, but doesn't work for me. I agree with you in an AMRC position, but I'm thinking in a Treq role, trying to maximize his creativity

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4 minutes ago, hbsssj said:

I've tried Messi as IF, but doesn't work for me. I agree with you in an AMRC position, but I'm thinking in a Treq role, trying to maximize his creativity

I thought Treq but the AM role is more maluable .. so you can set it with roam and get further forward and risky passes etc. but yes a combo of the two using PIs is certainly how I see him playing. I cant stand managing in spain without a reserve team though so I will probably never have the pleasure of managing M, S or N

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And what about the PIs for Neymar? First I think in two: roam from position and dribble more. To Suarez, i don't want to put PIs because CF or False Nine are very specific roles

Edited by hbsssj
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1 hour ago, hbsssj said:

I've tried Messi as IF, but doesn't work for me. I agree with you in an AMRC position, but I'm thinking in a Treq role, trying to maximize his creativity

Personally, I'd play Messi as an AP(A) at AMR with Roaming & Get further forward.  As a "playmaker" he will therefore attract the ball, which I would suggest is a good thing :)

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In the past I've used Neymar as an IF(A) at AML, Messi as an AP(A) in either AMR to AMRC positions & had Suarez switching between AF & CF (S/A) depending on what I think will work best, I've been very successful in replicating the attacking movement & scoring rate although it should go without saying that there's more to it than just picking roles for the front three.

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21 minutes ago, alinp said:

Personally, I'd play Messi as an AP(A) at AMR with Roaming & Get further forward.  As a "playmaker" he will therefore attract the ball, which I would suggest is a good thing :)

I've tried Messi an an AP at AMR, but i think that PPM "comes deep to get ball" could make him get down in the pitch, and I want a Messi near the goal.

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Just now, hbsssj said:

I've tried Messi an an AP at AMR, but i think that PPM "comes deep to get ball" could make him get down in the pitch, and I want a Messi near the goal.

If that's his PPM, the only way you'll get rid of it is to train it out of him.  It'll have an effect wherever you play him.

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Messi = AMR - Advanced Playmaker attack. Sit narrower, Roam from position, (Get further forward?)

Neymar = AML - Inside Forward attack. Stay wider?

Suarez = Complete Forward support. Moves into channels.

 

That's how I would set them up.

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14 minutes ago, lucatonix said:

Messi = AMR - Advanced Playmaker attack. Sit narrower, Roam from position, (Get further forward?)

I understand with the AP role he will attract more of the ball which is true of real life and would be beneficial in FM... however, on the AMR how much will he be restricted by OI from the AI to keep him on his right foot.

I had him as AM 1)... less likely to be man marked than an AP ... and 2) .. more central role naturally accommodates his Left Foot. i.e. doesn't have to cut in as much.

AMRC attack .. with risky passes and dribble more and get further forward would still be my preference... as the central attacking mid he would see plenty of the ball anyway, especially as at least one of Iniesta, Rakitic or Busquets behind him would presumably be a DLP or AP (s)

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I had Mesut Ozil as an AMR with those instructions minus Get further forward in my first season as Arsenal and he was exceptional. Let's not forget that Messi and Ozil do actually have right foot and that the "roams from position" instruction combined with sit narrow makes him really act like an AMC.

Plus an AMR is very rarely man-marked as who's going to man-mark him without leaving a huge gap? As an AMC the opposition can if give you more attention with a DM or defensive CM  devoted to you and the area is more crowded. As an AMR he is nicely in the halfspace between FB and CB and drives diagonally inwards. If the FB closes him down the your RB has the flank free to attack the byline and hit a cross to your on-rushing strikers. If the CB closes him then he can pass the ball to your ST or AML, one of which normally is able to find space. If neither of those occur, he can recycle the ball as you have central dominance with him adding an extra man in the middle.

 

Last season as Arsenal I had:

AMR - Mesut Ozil - Advanced Playmaker attack, sit narrower, roam from position - 47 apps, 17 goals, 22 assists,

AML - Lucas Perez - Inside Forward attack, stay wider - 29 (11) apps, 13 goals, 7 assists

ST-  Alexis - Complete Forward attack - 43(6) apps, 30 goals, 13 assists

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2 hours ago, jorgvandervloed said:

Neymar: Inside Forward (support) - AML

Suarez: Complete Forward (support) - CF

Messi: Advanced Playmaker (attack) - AMR

These are the correct roles, I agree. I would add Get Forward for Messi and Move Into Channels for Suarez

2 hours ago, hbsssj said:

I've tried Messi an an AP at AMR, but i think that PPM "comes deep to get ball" could make him get down in the pitch, and I want a Messi near the goal.

 

2 hours ago, hbsssj said:

Yes, and the PPM "dictates tempo" too

Messi does come deep to get the ball and he does dictate tempo IRL. Are you saying you want him to play differently for you?

The part that FM doesn't get right in terms of Traits/PPMs for him is that he does get into the penalty area, after he has dropped deep and participated/initiated the build up. I believe that PPM needs to be added. It is one of his signature traits IMO that FM has always omitted for some strange reason. 

 

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@yonko

I wouldn't add any PI's to start with and just see how things work out! His attacking duty will make him go in the penalty area already and Messi's strength is dropping deep, get the ball, and drive defenders nuts with his dribbling skills. I wouldn't worry about goals to be honest...

I've always felt like that ''moves into channels'' is a trimmed down version of ''roam from position'', is this correct? The complete forward role already has ''Roam from position'' activated already.

 

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17 minutes ago, jorgvandervloed said:

@yonko

I wouldn't add any PI's to start with and just see how things work out! His attacking duty will make him go in the penalty area already and Messi's strength is dropping deep, get the ball, and drive defenders nuts with his dribbling skills. I wouldn't worry about goals to be honest...

I've always felt like that ''moves into channels'' is a trimmed down version of ''roam from position'', is this correct? The complete forward role already has ''Roam from position'' activated already.

 

I add the PIs because I know how things work out already. And I know very well how Messi plays. Who said I'm worried about goals?

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@yonko

It wasn't an attack on how you set things up, just trying to have a discussion, that's all. My bad if it came off that way...

I've seen your posts about Barcelona in ''The Barcelona Style: My interpretation'' thread, for FM 2016 it was, if I'm correct? You obviously have way greater knowledge about how they play than I have.

Obviously going to have differences in how things are going to be set up, just saying that both would work probably:lol:

 

 

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5 hours ago, jorgvandervloed said:

@yonko

It wasn't an attack on how you set things up, just trying to have a discussion, that's all. My bad if it came off that way...

I've seen your posts about Barcelona in ''The Barcelona Style: My interpretation'' thread, for FM 2016 it was, if I'm correct? You obviously have way greater knowledge about how they play than I have.

Obviously going to have differences in how things are going to be set up, just saying that both would work probably:lol:

 

 

It came off like you were advising me. And I'm not the one who needs advise about that. My reply was just to let you know that I know.;)

2 hours ago, Margent2 said:

yonko calm down, people get so upset haha

I am calm. I don't see what made you think I'm not.

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