FM17: West Ham Utd - Fortune's always hiding

[herne79]

West Ham United 2016/17

Not quite the club crest you were expecting?

Welcome to the West Ham Utd thread for the 2016/17 season for FM17.

Some history:

The Thames Ironworks and Shipbuilding and Engineering Company Limited

(most of the following information is taken from Wikipedia)

Victorian London in the 19th century.  Queen Victoria is on the throne, Jack the Ripper is terrorising East London, and the British Empire is at the peak of it's power.  The River Thames is both the lifeblood and open sewer of London, with East London handling much of the city's import and export of goods from all over the world, along with a large shipbuilding industry.

In 1857, Peter Rolt (Conservative MP for Greenwich) took control of C.J Mare and Company (a shipbuilding company and formerly known as the Ditchburn and Mare Shipbuilding Company) after Mare was threatened with closure.

Rolt took control of the company's assets, moved them to a new limited company and called it the Thames Ironworks and Shipbuilding and Engineering Company Ltd, installing himself as major shareholder and company Chairman.  Situated on the mouth of Bow Creek as it entered the Thames (just south of Canning Town in East London), this new company became the largest shipbuilder on the river, expanding from 10 acres in 1856 to 30 acres by 1891.

Primarily known for building warships (most notably the world's first ever iron-hulled warship, HMS Warrior, which can still be seen fully restored at Portsmouth), the Thames Ironworks (and preceeding companies) also diversified into areas such as civil engineering, marine engines, cranes, electrical engineering and even motor cars.  It supplied the iron for I.K. Brunel's railway bridge over the river Tamar between Saltash and Plymouth (built 1859), which still stands and is in use by trains to this day.

HMS Warrior

Royal Albert Bridge, River Tamar

Original Maps of the Thames Ironworks (circled)

Modern Day East London showing Thames Ironworks location, West Ham's Boleyn Ground and the Olympic Park - West Ham Utd's new home

 

The Thames Ironworks Football Club

In the 1890s, Arnold Hills became Managing Director of the Thames Ironworks shipbuilding company.  In 1895 Hills, along with company foreman Dave Taylor, founded the Thames Ironworks Football Club for company employees.  On 29 June 1895, Hills made the following announcement in the weekly company journal:

"Mr. Taylor, who is working in the shipbuilding department, has undertaken to get up a football club for next winter and I learn that quoits and bowls will also be added to the attractions."

Perhaps we should have stuck with quoits...

As a former Oxford football Blue, Hills arranged the new club kit to be Royal Blue in colour, with the club crest of the Union Flag with "TIWFC" embroidering added a year later (see club crest at the top).

The new football club played it's first match against the Royal Ordnance reserves on 7 September 1895, ending in a 0-0 draw.  Their first competitive match came on 12 October 1895 against Chatham Town in a preliminary round of the FA Cup, losing 5-0.  

On 14 December they lost a friendly match 6-0 away against Millwall Athletic.  Millwall were another "iron works" team whose South London company competed for shipbuilding contracts.  The club rivalry lasts to this day.

Their first silverware came on 20 April 1896 after beating Barking (following two replays) to win the West Ham Charity Cup.  They entered the London League for the 1896/97 season, finishing runners up in their inaugural season, thanks to a bit of skullduggery:

"Their first appearance in the London League had seen them finish 4th, but only temporarily. The 1st Scots Guards had withdrawn from the league during the season, and their record was deleted, and the London Welsh team had been suspended towards the end of the season. "The Irons" had not yet played London Welsh and as a result, and probably thanks also to Arnold Hills' presidency of the league and Francis Payne's drafting of the rules, Thames Ironworks F.C. were awarded two wins by default and finished the revised league as runners up."

(Francis Payne was Thames Ironworks FC committee chairman).

Thames Ironworks FC in 1896 with the West Ham Charity Cup

In the summer of 1898, Thames Ironworks FC became a professional club, following their successful application to join the Southern League Division Two and so no longer merely a company football club (although players not working for the company had already started playing for the team as early as 1895).  They finished the season as champions and after a series of Test Matches (kind of like play offs) were promoted to Division One.  Millwall was one of the teams beaten during these Test Matches, in front of a crowd of 10,000.

A rather forgettable following season (1899/1900) saw the side just avoid relegation.

In June 1900, the Thames Ironworks and Shipbuilding Company acquired another engineering firm in a financial takeover, and the football club was wound up.  The club reformed in July 1900 under the name of West Ham United who duly accepted an invitation to take the place of the Thames Ironworks FC in the Southern League.  12 players from the Thames Ironworks were retained for West Ham Utd.

Originally playing in Royal Blue, the current Claret and Blue colours were adopted in 1899, following a wager.  The father of the Irons' right half Charlie Dove was a sprinter of national renown, Bill Dove.  During a visit to a fair in Birmingham, Bill Dove was challenged to a race by four Aston Villa players, with a monetary wager being made.  Bill duly won and as the Villa players were unable to pay, offered Bill a complete Villa team kit as payment.

The club crest of two crossed rivet hammers was adopted with the formation of the new club, tools commonly used in the iron working industry.  The shape of the crest represents the shape of the hull of HMS Warrior, as seen above.

Home Venues

Thames Ironworks home matches were originally played at Hermit Road in Canning Town, although from all accounts this was little more than wasteland.  In their first ever competitive match, their opponents refused to play there calling the ground "unsuitable".

Evicted from Hermit Road in 1897 for breaking the terms of their lease (the team charged admission fees and built a perimeter fence), they moved temporarily to a location at Browning Road, East Ham before Arnold Hills bought a piece of land in Canning Town and built a stadium called the Memorial Grounds.  It opened in 1897, was said to have a 100,000 capacity and was located near to where West Ham station now stands.

In 1904 the club moved to the Boleyn Ground, which was to be West Ham's ground until 2016 when the club moved into the London 2012 Olympic Stadium at Stratford (now called the London Stadium).

The Memorial Ground c.1904

The Boleyn Ground, 2016

London Stadium

[herne79]

West Ham United in FM17

Call me biased here if you like (I probably am ) - West Ham are a club with massive and quite immediate potential following the move to the new 60,000 capacity stadium, the reduction of club debt and participation in european competition (Europa League) from the start.  In my opinion the squad is just a couple of players away from seriously challenging for a top 4 finish, although with the right tactical system winning the league is perfectly possible.

Game Set Up

Your Manager profile will default to Continental Pro Licence / Professional Footballer, National Reputation.  Feel free to change (I would given the club potential).

You'll be handed a £41.5k a week one year contract, with the only Board philosophy* being to develop players using the club's youth system.  This ties in nicely with the Club's long standing history of turning out high quality players.

(*Note - in same saves the Board may also expect you to play Attacking Football).

A modest £6m transfer budget with a spare wage budget of £55k a week is yours to play with at the start.  Not much and personally I usually set up games where I freeze first window transfers anyway.  I'll come onto transfers lower down.

Board expectations (with the £6m budget) is for a mid-table Premier League finish, 5th round of the FA Cup and to reach the quarter finals of the Europa League.  You'll only increase the transfer budget by another £1m or so, so no need to give yourself additional pressure by increasing expectations.

Facilities and Finances

Brand new 60,000 capacity stadium that only costs £2.5m pa to rent.  Cheap as chips.

Training facilities are "impressive", Youth facilities "excellent".  Nice starting point and helps with the Board philosophy.

Youth Recruitment is "established" (also good) however Junior Coaching is only "average" and should be addressed asap.  Junior Coaching affects the current ability of newgen youth players when they appear on the annual Youth Intake Day.

Net debt is £59m, which for an EPL club and the riches of that league is not much at all - especially when European competitions are factored in.

Overall a pretty healthy position with loads of room to grow.

Staff

Lacking in some areas, a little bloated elsewhere.  I'll talk about the quality of staff members below.

Unless you really want a Director of Football (I don't) then save yourself a somewhat hefty wage and spend your money elsewhere.

U23/U18 Assistant Managers can be nice to bring in if you need to increase the numbers of coaching staff.  The U23 squad shares training facilities and coaches with the senior squad, so bringing in an U23 Assistant Manager and/or U23 Coaches will boost your senior squad coaches as well - handy to know when your Board won't let you increase the number of coaches.

Senior Coaching Staff is maxed out at 5/5 - you have 2 Fitness Coaches (good); 2 General Coaches (3 or more would be better); and just one Goalkeeping Coach (2 needed ideally).  Wait a few months and talk to the Board to increase the maximum numbers allowed here, and in the meantime bring in some U23 staff if you really feel the need for extra cover.

U18s Coaching Staff numbers are set at 2/3 (one GK Coach and one General Coach).  I'd advise bringing in a U18s Fitness Coach as one will be needed to maintain Youth levels and so avoid being downgraded.

Physios are largely ok (numbers wise) although bringing in an U18s Physio will again be important to maintain Youth levels.

The Data Analyst section is bloated.  Just having one Chief Data Analyst is sufficient to provide reports for all squads, so you can save some money here - terminate contracts or just let them run down (all have 3 year contracts however).

The scouting department needs some serious work.  Just 2 out of a possible 14 scouts and one Chief Scout are employed.  Bring new ones in and get them working - try to bring in a range of nationalities as well to give your global scouting knowledge a boost.

Staff Quality: Senior Squad / U23s

As can be seen, not the best but not the worst either.  Unfortunately, at the start of a save, replacements are somewhat limited and you may find it easier to reserve bringing in new (and better quality) staff until later in the season or even season 2 once your scouting knowledge and reputation have (hopefully) increased.

If you really want to change things up at the start, some likely candidates are:

Phil Neville - 4 star Defensive coach.

Claudio Bordon - 4 star Ball Control or Shooting coach.

Ismael Fernandez - 4.5 star Fitness coach.

Filip De Wilde - 4.5 star Goalkeeping coach.  (Tony Coton would also be a good choice but no option to sign him as a coach is given).

Assistant Manager

Not much to write home about here I'm afraid and at £10k a week for two years will cost a pretty penny to get rid of.  Probably worth while to move on sooner rather than later, and Phil Neville (see above) could be a good option to bring in (Neville has a Model Professional personality as well).

Head of Youth Development

A similar story here.  The HoYD needs not only good coaching skills to help train the young players, but also a decent personality to increase the chances of newgens gaining a boost to their personalities.  Luckily there is a ready made replacement employed at RB Leipzig that you should be able to snap up (he'll be worth every penny):

Staff Quality: U18s

Actually not bad at all, and no urgent attention needed.  Ultimately improvements all round will be good to have, however good coaches that are willing to join on an U18s contract can be very hard to find, especially at the start of a save.  I'd recommend waiting until your reputation and scouting knowledge have increased before looking to bring in new staff here.

However, one area you should look to address before the season ends is to bring in an U18s Fitness Coach.  Without one you will run the risk of your Youth set up being downgraded when it's reviewed at the start of the following season.

Staff Quality: Medical Department

1 Chief Physio, 2 Physios and a Head of Sports Science are employed.  No urgent action is required - all physios score 16 or 17 for the Physio attribute, which is fine.  Two have their contracts expiring in June 2017, so I'd recommend letting their contracts expire and bringing in new (and better) physios at that point.

As with the U18s Fitness Coach above, you should bring in an U18s Physio before the end of the season to avoid the Youth downgrade.

[herne79]

2016/17 Squad

Adrián - Rating: 7/10; not home grown.  First choice 'keeper. and a pretty decent shot stopper.  Contract expires June 2017, but has a one year extension clause.  Activate it and bring in someone better season 2 (budget and priorities allowing).

Darren Randolph - Rating: 5/10; trained in nation.  Back up to Adrián.  One on Ones and Decisions let him down.  Contract expires June 2017, only extend if you don't bring in a replacement for Adrián and can't find a better young 'keeper with higher potential.

Raphael Spiegel - Rating 3/10 (which is generous); not home grown.  Starts in the U23s squad, leave him there.  About the best thing I can say is that he's tall, although his aerial reach is only 13.  Move him on.

Fullbacks:

Aaron Cresswell - Rating: 7.5/10; trained in nation.  Great English left back, brilliant crosser of the ball, industrious and defensively sound.  Will be pushing for an England place in your save if he plays well.  Starts the game injured for 5 months (knee ligaments).

Arthur Masuaku - Rating (potential): 8/10; not home grown.  Good back up for Cresswell and with Cresswell being injured will get plenty of playing time.  Needs a boost to his defensive skills and work ethic, but has the potential to challenge Cresswell for a starting spot.

These two left backs should last you for years to come.

Sam Byram - Rating (potential): 7.5/10; trained in nation.  Starts in the U23s, move him to the Senior squad and make him your first choice right back.  Good all round fullback skills with the potential to improve a fair amount.  Have him tutored by Arbeloa from day one to improve his personality and determination.

Álvaro Arbeloa - Rating: 6/10; not home grown.  Free transfer from Real Madrid and showing signs of decline.  Solid defensively, great mental attributes and a first class tutor.  Use him as back up for either Byram or Masuaku.  Only on a one year contract so consider keeping him as a tutor / back up player if he doesn't demand high wages.

Central Defenders:

My priority area for improvement.

Winston Reid - Rating: 6/10; not home grown.  Physically strong and a good tackler.  Anticipation, Positioning and (especially) Composure reduce his rating, as does his aggressive tendencies - he'll pick up bookings.  If someone comes in with a big offer for him, take it.  He's also the Vice Captain.

Angelo Ogbonna - Rating: 6/10; not home grown.  Physically similar to Reid, although more of a marker than a tackler.  Also has aggressive tendencies (not good for a central defender).  Again, sell if you can get good money for him.

NOTE - only sell if you can find better replacements, which can be hard at the start of a save.  Another reason why I usually block first window transfers - better replacements are easier to find come January.

James Collins - Rating: 4/10; trained in nation.  Back up player only.  Good tackling and marking but positioning and anticipation are too low for this level.  Great personality so use him as a tutor for:

Reece Oxford - Rating (potential): 9/10; trained at club.  Whatever else you do, hang onto this lad - he could potentially reach a similar level to the likes of Gerard Pique and Vincent Kompany*.  He starts in the U23s squad, so move him to the seniors and have him tutored by Collins from the get go.  Bring him on as a sub, give him a few starts and play him in the U23s when he doesn't have first team action.  Don't loan him out.

(*Note - his potential is only decided when a new game is started, so his potential will differ from save to save).

Most players in this section are quite capable of playing in a variety of positions, so I'll just go through them in order.

Håvard Nordtveit - Rating: 6.5/10; not home grown.  Strong, quick, aggressive, brave, great work ethic, defensively sound.  Good in central or defensive midfield, can do a job in central defence if needed as well.  Good rotation option for Kouyaté.

Sofiane Feghouli - Rating: 7/10; not home grown.  Lightning quick, great off the ball running and decent as a Winger or Inside Forward.  Free transfer from Valencia and worth £28.5m, so a nice fat profit when you sell him.

Cheikhou Kouyaté - Rating: 6.5/10; not home grown.  Very similar to Nordtveit above, and probably edges it as a defensive midfielder thanks to slightly better positioning and anticipation.  Good squad player.

Manuel Lanzini - Rating (potential): 8/10; not home grown.  Flair player.  Can play all across midfield, particularly suited to AMC/L/R.  Fast, agile, great dribbling, first touch and technique, can pick a pass and score goals.  Decent work rate  and bags of potential (almost Payet level).  Keep him.

Pedro Obiang - Rating: 7.5/10; not home grown.  Solid central midfielder and will nail pretty much any role you give him - DLP; B2B; RPM; BWM; CM.  Good personality too and can be used as a tutor.

Mark Noble - Rating: 7/10 (although my heart says 10/10); trained at club.  Club captain and legend.  Will run all day long, great passing skills, "Model Professional", good mental attributes, on field leader and your go-to penalty taker.  Every team needs a Mark Noble.

Gökhan Töre - Rating: 6/10; not home grown; on loan from Besiktas (cannot be cancelled).  Good crossing and dribbling ability, lacking elsewhere.  A back up player only.

Dmitri Payet - Rating: 8.5/10; not home grown.  West Ham's star player and your defacto free kick taker.  Top notch technical skills help him play pretty much anywhere across the AM strata in most roles (not really a winger however).  Hang onto him if you can, but the likes of Real Madrid will be sniffing around and may make it challenging to keep him.

Michail Antonio - Rating: 7/10; trained in nation.  Decent squad player, can play left or right flank and will do a job at fullback.  Good physicals and work ethic, decent technical skills but lacks mental attributes.

Edimilson Fernandes - Rating (potential): 8/10; not home grown.  Bit of a hidden gem this one, and not someone I'd previously paid much attention to.  Needs tutoring asap (Obiang or Noble) but could potentially be on par with Lanzini or (almost) Payet.  Comfortable playing all over midfield, his mentals need some work but there's a solid foundation there to build on.  Give him some game time and play him in the U23s regularly.

Andy Carroll - Rating: 7/10; trained in nation.  The Hammers' record signing and a real handful for opposition defenders - when he's fit.  Big, strong and powerful in the air, he can also play football a bit too with decent first touch and passing ability.  A poor personality lets him down which I actually think is little harsh - all the injury problems he's had, all those long months of treatment, recovery and physio I think warrants a boost to his attitude.  Wrap him in cotton wool.

Simone Zaza - Rating: 7.5/10; not home grown.  On loan from Juventus (loan cannot be terminated), Zaza has plenty of ability - good off the ball, anticipation, finishing, pace, work rate, composure, speed, technique and strength make him a fairly complete striker.  First touch could use a little improvement, but if you have the spare money towards the end of the season and you see no-one else better, his loan can be made permanent for c.£17m.  Worth considering if you're in the market.

Diafra Sakho - Rating: 7/10; not home grown.  Arguably doesn't get the credit he deserves in game, he's actually a decent striker.  Not quite as strong or aggressive as Carroll, he's the best finisher at the club.  Very good work ethic as well.  In the right role and system he'll score for fun.

André Ayew - Rating: 7.5/10; not home grown.  An extremely versatile player, Ayew can play all across midfield in a variety of roles, as well as striker.  He'll even do a job at left back if needed.  A very well rounded player with good mental attributes (concentration could be better).  Due to the system I've been using, I've mainly rotated him in central midfield and he's been very good there.

Jonathan Calleri - Rating (potential): 7.5/10; not home grown.  The club website lists Calleri as being on loan from Boca Juniors, however in game he's listed as being contracted to West Ham (albeit on a 12 month contract) following a £4m transfer from Sao Paulo.  Whatever the truth, he's a player with good potential and his attributes are already quite well developed.  With his height (175cm), strength (15) and work ethic (15) he reminds me (as he's Argentinian) of a young Tevez.  Retrain him to the AMC position and play him as a shadow striker, attacking midfielder or trequartista and you won't be sorry.

Enner Valencia (not pictured) - On a season long loan at Everton, who have the option to buy him for £14.5m.  Will be a good asset if he comes back.  7.5/10.

Young Players to Keep an Eye On (all will require tutoring)

Domingos Quina - 16 years old, midfield.  Could be up there with Lanzini or even Payet.  Note that he's on a Youth contract, so sign him to professional terms soon to prevent another club pinching him.

Toni Martinez - 18 years old, forward.  Signed from Valencia where he was apparently a prolific scorer for their youth team.

Luka Belic - 20 years old, forward.  Bags of potential but may be leaving things a bit late - he's on a season long loan at Motherwell so he'll be 21 by the time he returns (unless you cancel the loan).  Needs tutoring so he'll be pushing 22 by the time he's improved his personality.  A possible late bloomer if you have the patience.

Reece Burke - 19 years old, central defence.  Away on loan at Wigan for the season, already quite well developed with lots of potential.  Not quite as much potential as Reece Oxford but could make an excellent squad player.

Joe Powell - 17 years old, midfield.  Has the makings of a decent advanced playmaker, trequartista, enganche or attacking midfielder.  Try and get his work rate up as well.

Martin Samuelson - 19 years old, midfield.  Good starting attributes for an inside forward or advanced playmaker.  On loan at Blackburn.

Josh Cullen - 20 years old, midfield.  On loan at Bradford.  Quite well developed central midfielder already, a potential back up or eventually even a rotation option for Noble / Obiang.

Vashon Neufville - 17 years old, left back.  Plenty of time to develop, and has the potential to be a good back up / squad player.

[herne79]

Tactical Ideas

Plenty of options here, from the 4-4-2 to the 4-1-2-3DM via the 4-2-3-1.

The only formation I would advise to stay away from at the start of a save is anything with 3 central defenders at the back.  You only really have 2 half decent central defenders to begin with, so trying to shoe horn in 3 in such a competitive league is probably something to keep up your sleeve until you can bring in more quality players (and develop Oxford further).

These are some basic suggestions for ideas:

4-4-2

A more "traditional" English style, designed to make use of Andy Carroll's physical presence and aggression.  Just remember you need to keep him fit!

4-2-3-1

West Ham are well set up for this style of play and is your Assistant Manager's recommended formation.  You have plenty of options in attack, a solid midfield base and good fullbacks.  If you give one of your central midfielders a support duty, make sure he is very hard working.  Don't ignore a deep 4-2-3-1 either, moving the midfield back to the DM line and attacking midfielders back to MC/L/R - this can be devastating as a counter attacking system.

4-1-2-3DM

Again, nicely set up here and boils down to how you see Payet playing in this system.

4-3-2-1 Christmas Tree

This is how I've been playing and is a great alternative for something a little different.  I won the EPL and Europa League using this formation and is pretty flexible as far as personnel are concerned (Feghouli as a DLP rotation option for Noble actually worked quite well for example).  These are the roles and duties I'm using:

 

Transfer Targets

First Transfer Window (July / August 2016)

During game set up, I recommend you tick the box to block first window transfers.  Whilst this will make your game more realistic, you'll have a problem of finding quality players if you don't tick this option.

For starters, you only have a £6m transfer budget, which will not buy you much in the way of quality players.  So long as you don't play 3 at the back, pretty much any formation you pick will have good first choice players and decent back up players.  Trying to find squad improvements on such a limited budget is next to impossible.

You will also have the issue of larger clubs sniffing around your players.  It won't be easy to ward off Real Madrid once they come in with a bid for Payet for example.  And even if you do get a good fee for him, who do you bring in as replacement that is at least of a similar quality?  You only get to keep 80% of transfer revenue received, which makes a like for like replacement very difficult.

I'd only suggest you play with the first transfer window if you want to make wholesale changes to your squad for a completely new style of play.

Second Transfer Window (January 2017)

My top priority is central defence.  Two very aggressive central defenders can lead to both tactical and discipline issues.

If you have been playing with the first transfer window blocked, other clubs will be awash with money and looking to spend it.  I'd also recommend playing your game with the Chinese top division loaded as large bids can arrive from them as well (I sold Ogbonna for £25m to a Chinese club for example).  Your own transfer budget should be dramatically increased as well by this time, even before you sell any players.

Targets will depend on how well you are performing in the league.  If doing well, I'd suggest bringing in Jeison Murillo from Internazionale.  Great defensive attributes with excellent speed.  His strength could use some work but that will come.  The only down side is that he'll probably be cup-tied in Europe for the rest of the season.

Chancel Mbemba (Newcastle) and Jario Riedewald (Ajax) are also good options, although Riedewald is perhaps a little more for the future.

Third Transfer Window (July/August 2017)

Again will depend on how you have performed.  If you have qualified for the Champions League (and there is no reason why you can't), you now get plenty of choice and will come down to your own tactical priorities.

I'd also suggest that you always, almost on a daily basis, keep an eye on who is transfer listed.  I snapped up Coutinho when he was mysteriously transfer listed by Liverpool.

If still in the market for a central defender (I was), take a look at Andreas Christensen at Chelsea.  He'll turn into a world class defender.

After central defence, my priorities were a right sided fullback to challenge Byram for a starting spot, and a first class goalkeeper.  There are plenty of options and picks will probably come down to your budget.

Midfield and forwards are low priority for me and only worth looking at if a bargain comes along (Coutinho) or if you need a different type of player for your system.  Don't overlook making Zaza's loan permanent as he can do well in a variety of roles.

I'd also suggest taking a good look at Lewis Cook (Bournemouth).  An excellent young English central midfielder who has the potential to surpass and eventually take over from Mark Noble.

[herne79]

Will be adding to this over the next few days as time allows.

Come on you Irons .

[onecockygeezer]

Looking forward to this. COYI

[Welshace]

Only 8.5 for Payet @herne79 

[herne79]

2 hours ago, Welshace said:

Only 8.5 for Payet @herne79 

lol yeh.  For me, one of those players who's FM presence doesn't quite match up to his real life reputation.  9/10 irl.

[herne79]

Guide complete now.

Full squad and staff analysis added, along with tactical ideas and possible transfer targets.

COYI .

[Sussex Hammer]

Great thread Herne.  Been hoping someone would do a Hammers one.  Interesting that Arnold Hills made the announcement on 29th June because I was born on 29th June, albeit many years later!! so maybe I was always destined to be a Hammer!!!  Poor sod!!

I'm playing FMT but will watch this with interest.  Obviously a few differences between the two games including a rather annoying situation where neither Domingos Quina  or  Joe Powell are in the Reserves squad.  I don't think you can apply tutors manually in FMT either so I loan out quite a few, although in my third season I will probably give Reece Oxford some game time due to your suggestion of not loaning him out.  Just hope I haven't held back his development by doing that.

The Hammers have a pretty good squad though.  I got rid of Calleri, Tore and Zaza as never been keen IRL.  Arbeloa retired.  Let Valencia go as well because he has been understandably downgraded this year.  Probably my best striker in the last two FM's.  In two seasons so far have brought in Carl Jenkinson who has been a good right back, Lucas Romero, Zack Clough (loaned him out), Gabriel Barbosa and Joe Hart because as you say the keeper area needed upgrading.  Got Kingsley Coman on loan as well but still not sure whether to get him permanently because I use WM's rather than wingers and he can be a world beater on his day but not consistent,.

Finished 4th first season losing the FA Cup Final to Man City.  Second season finished 2nd only getting a draw at Man City away in the last match handing them the title by one point.  Beat Watford in the EFL Cup Final though with a 93rd minute equalizer saving me and winning in extra time!!  Got a 0-0 away at Barcelona in CL Group Stage and knocked out Real Madrid only losing in the second knockout round to Bayern 2-1 on aggregate.  Can't think of too many harsh CL Draws though for a CL debut.  A group containing Barcelona, Dortmund and Fenerbache, then Real Madrid and Bayern in the Knockout Rounds!!!

Not sure what to do at the end of my second season.  As much as he is a Legend Mark Noble is now 31 so I think I need a creative workhorse (if there is such a player) for central midfield and maybe need to start looking for a long term replacement for Payet at WM.  Love Lanzini but he doesn't do it enough for me.  Need a world class centre back as well I think.  Was thinking Kurt Zouma as a possibility as I have had a takeover and there is money to spend.

Great thread again, sorry to bore you senseless!!! 

[herne79]

@Sussex Hammer Defo born to be a hammer .

That's one tough CL competition you had, did well though and only losing 2-1 on agg to Bayern is no shame.

Being in the CL you should have plenty of choice for transfers now.  Not sure about Zouma, I usually tend to prioritise Positioning, Anticipation, Composure and Pace for my centre backs.  Laporte is a particular favourite, but expensive.  Christensen can become world class, I also like Murillo.  Or just pinch Dier off the unmentionables.

I mentioned Lewis Cook above for a Noble replacement, you won't go far wrong with him.  Don't forget to keep an eye on number of players trained in country to keep in line with CL competition rules.

[Sussex Hammer]

Yeah I been trying to get Laporte with no luck although he will now probably end up somewhere like Man United for a cheaper price.  Saw that with Dybala.  I offered 60 million, even though I couldn't afford it at end of first season just to see and was turned down.  Couple of weeks later he went to United for 55 mill, unless I didn't notice add ons.  Quite often I notice a player moves not long after I show an interest!!

Will look at Cook, English as well, although not sure how all that competition rules works in FMT.  Have bought Riyad Mahrez for 26 million although not sure if that will work out as a good deal or not.  Leicester went down at end of second season and he didn't have a great year so it's a risk but Feghouli wants far too much 18 months away from end of his contract so I may sell him.  Vardy is available as well but is 31 and I tend to play F9's, plus Barbosa and Sakho did well enough.  Tried for interest to see if Rooney would come although I would have cancelled it.  United accepted 850 grand for him but he asked for 235 grand a week at 32?!?!?  That's one thing I find with FM, players seem to lose stats quite quickly when they hit their 30's although Zlatan is on a free at 36 and still has reasonable stats.  No idea what wage he will want though!!!

Looked at Christensen and Murillo but Chelsea won't sell either.  Dier off Spurs?!  Ouch not sure I could even in fantasy land!!!  Any other thoughts on a centre back would appreciate if you could advise.

Update - Ibrahimovic wants 185 grand a week so I thought sod it I have never had him in FM and it's only a year.  Would end up with Robert Snodgrass IRL!!!!!

[herne79]

11 hours ago, Sussex Hammer said:

Any other thoughts on a centre back would appreciate if you could advise.

Nastasic would be good but he may run into work permit issues.  Koulibaly and Lindelof also worth looking at, plus they have scope to grow.

Rugani, Romagnali, Umtiti all excellent along with de Vrij (work on his pace a little).

For younger players, Jorge Mere, Jesus Vallejo and Niklas Sule are excellent and could actually slot straight into the first team (Mere and Vallejo especially - Mere is my favoured player).  Beware, those two being Spanish you may have to pay their minimum fee release and as Sule is German he can cost silly money.  Jairo Riedewald, Cameron Carter-Vickers and Filipo Romagna will all develop really well.  

I wouldn't touch Jonathan Tah however, his Concentration is really low.

Try to steer clear of anyone who's Aggression is really high.  14 is about my limit for a central defender, and even that's pushing it for me.

[Bmwdestroyer]

Did you guys struggle with homegrown player numbers from the club in the first season. Having to leave a number of spaces in the europa league squad due to it and Collins isnt happy about not being in the squad

[herne79]

46 minutes ago, Bmwdestroyer said:

Did you guys struggle with homegrown player numbers from the club in the first season. Having to leave a number of spaces in the europa league squad due to it and Collins isnt happy about not being in the squad

Yup.  I left out Tore and Zaza - they're both loans and didn't moan at me.  And even if they did moan, I'd rather a loanee moan than a contracted player.

[Bmwdestroyer]

Just now, herne79 said:

Yup.  I left out Tore and Zaza - they're both loans and didn't moan at me.  And even if they did moan, I'd rather a loanee moan than a contracted player.

Zaza has been my best player so far lol. Just beat Liverpool 4-2 in the second match of the season then the game crashed before I saved 

[OLLMEISTER1]

One of the best club threads I have read. Cap docked sir.....great in depth knowledge and planning.

If only all club threads were as good as this.

[herne79]

Thanks .

[Sparky_07]

What game setup are people using for West Ham, I'm just about to start a new game with them and just wondering how people have started their games, what leagues and database have you loaded?

[herne79]

2 hours ago, Sparky_07 said:

What game setup are people using for West Ham, I'm just about to start a new game with them and just wondering how people have started their games, what leagues and database have you loaded?

Personally I load the 4 highest English divisions then the highest division in each of the largest rep nations: Belgium, Netherlands, France, Germany, Spain, Portugal, Argentina, Brazil, Italy.  And a small database.

[Sparky_07]

11 hours ago, herne79 said:

Personally I load the 4 highest English divisions then the highest division in each of the largest rep nations: Belgium, Netherlands, France, Germany, Spain, Portugal, Argentina, Brazil, Italy.  And a small database.

How come only a small database? I like to load scandinavia players aswell because their cheap! 

Starting my game properly today will post updates and follow this thread, nice opening posts mate.

[herne79]

18 minutes ago, Sparky_07 said:

How come only a small database? I like to load scandinavia players aswell because their cheap! 

Starting my game properly today will post updates and follow this thread, nice opening posts mate.

Loading Scandinavia also a good option .

I use a small database as if the database is large I think it can disrupt the transfer market a bit - too many players flooding the market so sometimes it can be tough to sell players you want to get rid of.

[Sussex Hammer]

Well I have quit my save and reloaded at the start of the second season to offload Payet.  Not sure about others but I can't stomach him in my squad now!!!!

[Sparky_07]

Cant believe whats going on now in football, Costa and Payet for example!

[Sussex Hammer]

Can't believe I played on a Saturday and a Sunday for over 20 years on awful pitches and dreadful weather and I paid for the privilege because I loved the game.  This lot now throw toys out of the pram at the slightest thing.  Players have all the power, after all how many industries do the employees earn more than the Manager or even in some cases the owner?!

[Sparky_07]

Exactly mate all down to player power now and Modern football... its becoming a joke now

[Sussex Hammer]

Er wow......  Just started again at the end of season one because I wasn't happy with some of my transfers, and had a takeover at some point as per usual.  Usually it's a Karl Oyston or other London business man who comes in but the Clubs finances rarely change until the third season.  However upon my restart I went out and sold Ogbonna as you suggested and purchased Rugani and Zaza because Zaza ghas been pretty good for me in the game.  Then the usual take over with David Gold retiring.  Only this time I have been taken over by Troy Williams an Australian Investor and the News Feed comment was "The Club will never be the same again".  Cue me looking at my finances and the bank balance now stands at £232, 809, 936 with a transfer budget of £152,906,888.  Obviously I saved the game immediately!!!  Never in the history of FM have I had a take over like that!!!!!

Update :  I've been silly and splashed out 60 million on Renato Sanchez!  Promised myself I would never spend stupid money in FM and try and keep it as real as possible but sod it !!!  Choice between him and Ruben Neves and I thought both would be very over the top, so hope I chose the right one!!  Considering I rarely seem to go past four seasons I suspect I will never see the best of him!!! 

[herne79]

3 hours ago, Sussex Hammer said:

Er wow......  Just started again at the end of season one because I wasn't happy with some of my transfers, and had a takeover at some point as per usual.  Usually it's a Karl Oyston or other London business man who comes in but the Clubs finances rarely change until the third season.  However upon my restart I went out and sold Ogbonna as you suggested and purchased Rugani and Zaza because Zaza ghas been pretty good for me in the game.  Then the usual take over with David Gold retiring.  Only this time I have been taken over by Troy Williams an Australian Investor and the News Feed comment was "The Club will never be the same again".  Cue me looking at my finances and the bank balance now stands at £232, 809, 936 with a transfer budget of £152,906,888.  Obviously I saved the game immediately!!!  Never in the history of FM have I had a take over like that!!!!!

Haha quality .

[Welshace]

Shocked that a strikerless formation isn't suggested anywhere in this thread..  can't think of any side in the game more equipped off the bat to use such a formation..

 

Having attacking midfielders with the potential to score goals like Ayew, Payet and co along with a great core midfield make it a no brainer imo..

[Bmwdestroyer]

Trying something a bit different, wanted to choose something to get the best out of Payet. Been working well so far, Zaza has been banging them in, beat won all of my matches so far.

[nextqprmanager]

Bmwdestroyer, incidentally how does Jonny get green bars as a DR playing as a DL?

[Welshace]

1 hour ago, nextqprmanager said:

Bmwdestroyer, incidentally how does Jonny get green bars as a DR playing as a DL?

Jonny can play dr and dl

[Bmwdestroyer]

18 hours ago, nextqprmanager said:

Bmwdestroyer, incidentally how does Jonny get green bars as a DR playing as a DL?

Like welsh said one of his positions is left back

[mattgranger]

Brilliant thread, really enjoyed reading that. Good work!

And thanks for the staff suggestions!

[Sussex Hammer]

Herne,  Cheers for the heads up on Rugani.  Partnering Reid quite well so far!!

 

[herne79]

Nice one @Sussex Hammer, and just 3 goals conceded in 16 matches.

I know £150m can make quite a difference, but you still need the right system to use the players effectively and you clearly have that as well .

[Sussex Hammer]

Thanks Herne.  Really pleased defensively so far.  I just use a hybrid of one of Knap's Tactics incorporating some of my ideas to make a 4141 Defensive, 442 and a 4141 TW Tactic that's Knaps.  Working ok at the start of the second season,.  Strange thing is all my strikers are scoring, which they didn't first season which is making life difficult selection wise.  Zaza started well and got injured so Sakho came in bagged a hat trick.  He got injured so Valencia came in and bagged a hat trick.  Carroll then came in and """bagged a hat trick""".  So difficult to keep them all happy.

On thing I do notice though is that Zaza and Valencia score a few headers which is exactly the way I want to get Carroll playing but he doesn't.  Wondering if agility and acceleration are better stats for getting free in the area and maybe Carroll's low anticipation doesn't help?

 

 

[herne79]

5 minutes ago, Sussex Hammer said:

Thanks Herne.  Really pleased defensively so far.  I just use a hybrid of one of Knap's Tactics incorporating some of my ideas to make a 4141 Defensive, 442 and a 4141 TW Tactic that's Knaps.  Working ok at the start of the second season,.  Strange thing is all my strikers are scoring, which they didn't first season which is making life difficult selection wise.  Zaza started well and got injured so Sakho came in bagged a hat trick.  He got injured so Valencia came in and bagged a hat trick.  Carroll then came in and """bagged a hat trick""".  So difficult to keep them all happy.

On thing I do notice though is that Zaza and Valencia score a few headers which is exactly the way I want to get Carroll playing but he doesn't.  Wondering if agility and acceleration are better stats for getting free in the area and maybe Carroll's low anticipation doesn't help?

 

 

It's probably not just down to Anticipation, as 13 isn't that bad.  But once you factor in other attributes, such as Off the Ball, Decisions, Finishing, Composure, Teamwork, Acceleration and so on (all of which don't compare favourably to Zaza) then a small single difference becomes a fairly sizeable combined difference.  I doubt Andy's hidden attributes will help much either...

btw I include Teamwork there as sometimes (depending on your tactic) lower Teamwork can help a striker if you want him to be more of a goal scorer than a team player.  I love low Teamwork when I use a Poacher for example.  Obviously discount Teamwork if you are using the striker as a link man because then you need a team player.

[Sussex Hammer]

Yeah I use a F9, which doesn't help Carroll in many ways because of that annoying hard coded "dribble more" PI.  I think Carroll has been hard done by in the stats really because IRL he has a far higher aggression and determination which again could be an asset in trying to get across defenders.  As you say though it's probably a combination because if Zaza is say one point higher on say six attributes that's a six point gap which could make all the difference.  Of course Carroll is hardly ever 100% for as well so that's another possibility when considering match sharpness.

The really weird thing is they score more headers on low crosses!!! 

[herne79]

Hmm, F9 for Carroll probably wouldn't be my first choice role for him.

I mentioned some his attributes in the OP and how some (hidden attributes) seem a little low, and you've obviously now mentioned his aggression / determination, but of course that could just be our own perception bias and rose tinted spectacles.  Researchers have a lot more information to hand than we do so I'd actually be really interested to hear (if possible) some of the reasoning behind the choices made. 

@mattgranger would you be able to give us any insight into this?  You'll clearly have far more information to hand about choices made and what goes on away from the public eye, so it would be very interesting.

[herne79]

On ‎16‎/‎01‎/‎2017 at 22:05, Welshace said:

Shocked that a strikerless formation isn't suggested anywhere in this thread..  can't think of any side in the game more equipped off the bat to use such a formation..

 

Having attacking midfielders with the potential to score goals like Ayew, Payet and co along with a great core midfield make it a no brainer imo..

Sorry, missed this.

Yeh it's certainly an option, especially if you play with the first transfer window open as it'll allow you to offload the unneeded Sakho and Carroll.  Good idea .

[mattgranger]

3 hours ago, herne79 said:

Hmm, F9 for Carroll probably wouldn't be my first choice role for him.

I mentioned some his attributes in the OP and how some (hidden attributes) seem a little low, and you've obviously now mentioned his aggression / determination, but of course that could just be our own perception bias and rose tinted spectacles.  Researchers have a lot more information to hand than we do so I'd actually be really interested to hear (if possible) some of the reasoning behind the choices made. 

@mattgranger would you be able to give us any insight into this?  You'll clearly have far more information to hand about choices made and what goes on away from the public eye, so it would be very interesting.

Naturally, I can't delve too deeply into the inner workings of the game. It would be very tempting to make all players as good as Messi, but unfortunately we can't do this!

We have to keep a balance. If we increase stats too much such as determination and aggression we may have to lower other stats, for example acceleration or passing which would therefore make the players less well rounded. Carroll's stats for these attributes are actually quite good, but in a comparison with Zaza though he obviously falls way short as Zaza is (in my opinion) massively overrated.

[Sussex Hammer]

7 hours ago, herne79 said:

Hmm, F9 for Carroll probably wouldn't be my first choice role for him.

I mentioned some his attributes in the OP and how some (hidden attributes) seem a little low, and you've obviously now mentioned his aggression / determination, but of course that could just be our own perception bias and rose tinted spectacles.  Researchers have a lot more information to hand than we do so I'd actually be really interested to hear (if possible) some of the reasoning behind the choices made. 

@mattgranger would you be able to give us any insight into this?  You'll clearly have far more information to hand about choices made and what goes on away from the public eye, so it would be very interesting.

Yeah I agree re the F9 but it just seems to suit my tactic.  Tried him as a DLF or a TM but he doesn't really excel in any role, certainly not consistently.  To be fair the same can be said IRL.  I don't really think he is suited to a lone striker role.  20 years ago Carroll would have been a beast with someone next to him in a 442 but it's rare than teams play tow up now.

3 hours ago, mattgranger said:

Naturally, I can't delve too deeply into the inner workings of the game. It would be very tempting to make all players as good as Messi, but unfortunately we can't do this!

We have to keep a balance. If we increase stats too much such as determination and aggression we may have to lower other stats, for example acceleration or passing which would therefore make the players less well rounded. Carroll's stats for these attributes are actually quite good, but in a comparison with Zaza though he obviously falls way short as Zaza is (in my opinion) massively overrated.

Thanks for the explanation Matt,.  I did note that Carroll's bravery is very high so all in all I guess his stats aren't too bad.  Agree with you on Zaza I certainly wouldn't have bought him if it was real life!!!

BTW did you ever get any joy re Noble's strange Injury Proneness in the game and Lanzini's incredibly low balance stat?

[mattgranger]

19 hours ago, Sussex Hammer said:

Thanks for the explanation Matt,.  I did note that Carroll's bravery is very high so all in all I guess his stats aren't too bad.  Agree with you on Zaza I certainly wouldn't have bought him if it was real life!!!

BTW did you ever get any joy re Noble's strange Injury Proneness in the game and Lanzini's incredibly low balance stat?

Yes mate, Noble should no longer be injury prone and Lanzini's balance has increased. Should see these changes in the winter update.

[Sussex Hammer]

4 hours ago, mattgranger said:

Yes mate, Noble should no longer be injury prone and Lanzini's balance has increased. Should see these changes in the winter update.

Great stuff Matt thanks..  Hope they don't lower Zaza to real life standards as he is doing ok for me!!!  Pity I didn't mention Nobles penalties because he has missed 3 out of 4 so far in my second season!!

[JNOUnited]

Absolutely great thread, that I wish was around when I started my FM17 Save on my Youtube Channel.

I did absolutely shockingly first half of the first season, but pulled it back to finish 6th or 7th in the end to keep a place in Europe. 

Second season I finished 2nd, and have a lot of my youngsters ready for first team football for the third season.

My takeover was not as good as others though, and they changed my philosophy to sign high profile players instead of focusing on youth. Which has annoyed me cause I have loads of good youngsters.

I'll do proper updates when I get a chance. 

 

[herne79]

5 hours ago, JNOUnited said:

Absolutely great thread, that I wish was around when I started my FM17 Save on my Youtube Channel.

I did absolutely shockingly first half of the first season, but pulled it back to finish 6th or 7th in the end to keep a place in Europe. 

Second season I finished 2nd, and have a lot of my youngsters ready for first team football for the third season.

My takeover was not as good as others though, and they changed my philosophy to sign high profile players instead of focusing on youth. Which has annoyed me cause I have loads of good youngsters.

I'll do proper updates when I get a chance. 

 

Nice one finishing second.

Don't worry too much about the new Board philosophy.  So long as you are being successful, that trumps all.  Bring your youngsters on and there's no harm in signing a big name now and again .

[matsnor21]

Decided to start a long term West Ham save, several years since i last did that! Think they have a exiting squad, which would be challenging for trophies with the right addition. Playing a 4-2-31, which suits the team very well. Before the season i had a hope that we maybe could be challenging for a spot in the Champions League, but we overachieved all season long. 

Was knocked in the FA Cup 3rd round against Arsenal. In Europa League we did very well, but lost agains Bayern Munich in the quarter finals, on away goals! In the EFL cup nobody could stop us, and we smashed Watford in the final.

Transfers:

Going to invest in some quality  players in the transfers window. Cant make up my mind if i should buy Simone Zaza or not. He has been fantastic this season, with 45 goals on 49 matches!

[herne79]

Great stuff @matsnor21, Champions in season 1 .

Interesting to see you sold both Sakho and Carroll in the first transfer window, so I guess if you let Zaza go you'll defo have to find a new striker.

[nextqprmanager]

Zaza may be on a pre loan-contract agreement to become permanent?