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European league system [Project][WIP]


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EDIT # 1:

 

Spain.Germany , England and Italy (top 4 leagues) will remain same.

Other nations in Europe will make 8 regional leagues with 12 teams in each league.

Number of teams from some country will be dinamic (i explained this in "dynamic qualification thread"). In season #1 number of teams will be based by nations coefficients at the moment. Also in season #2 and after - winner will be qualified.

Something like this:

 

ciMGGNn.png

 

Domestic competions will be changed for all countries in 2 stages- autumn and spring season. Participationg teams in regional leagues will not play autumn season. Rest of teams will play autumn season and they will compete for qualification in play-off group with teams from regional leagues.

Example: league with 12 teams- 3 best teams from last season play regional league in autumn season. The other 9 teams play domestic league autumn season. Spots 1,2,3,4 and 5 are qualified for Championship group of spring season with 3 teams from regional league. They will compete for domestic title and for spots in next years regional division.

Teams from positions 6,7,8 and 9 in autumn season will play in Relegation group spring season and will try to avoid relegation.

This regional leagues will be played in autumn season. As i said before-teams will not play domestic autumn season. They will compete for Champions Cup finals and Uefa cup finals. (winner qualify for CL-positions 2 and 3 qualify for Uefa cup or something like that).

I havent decided yet how to make Champions cup and Uefa cup.

I will change all european top divisions and make them with same rules for foreigners.

Also number of games for teams should be ok. 22 games in autumn season for regional league teams + 15-25 games in spring season.

 

EDIT # 2:

 

I managed to figure out how to set club continental competitions for my project.

We have 12 leagues that gives clubs for euro comps. 4 top divisions and 8 regional leagues.

Champions league will be with 32 clubs (8 groups of 4 teams just like default) and participating teams will be:

- last winner of CL

-last winner of EL

-winner and runner-up of all 12 divisions

-6 winners of playoff between 12 3rd places teams in 12 divisions.

 

Europa league will be with 32 clubs (also 8 groups of 4 teams) nd participating teams will be:

-6 losers of playoff between 12 3rd places teams in 12 divisions.

-12   4th placed teams from 12 divisions

- 14 teams from qualification rounds.

Qualifications for Europa league will be played in 3 rounds.

First round will include 8th placed teams from 8 regional divisions. 4 matches, 4 teams go to second round.

Second round will include 4 winers of first round, 4   8th placed teams from 4 top divisions, 12   6th placed and 12  7th placed teams from 12 divisions.   32 teams total, 16 go to playoff.

Playoff round will include 16 winners from second round and 12   5th placed teams from 12 divisions. 28 teams , 14 go to group stage.

 

So you can see every of 12 leagues can give 8 teams for continental competitions. Maybe this seems to much but i want to give chance for small teams to compete and also to make sure there is reason to play your league 100% to the end.

Also i need to make sure that almost every nation recieve some coefficient point because after 6-7 seasons we can have 20 nations with coefficient zero.

 

Hope you guys understand this and of course i hope you like this idea.

:onmehead:

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2 hours ago, Sankalan said:

too many teams in the Euro competition. I guess 3 divisions with 80 teams would be ideal, simulating the current 80 team european group stages

why is to many? clubs in european leagues wont play domestic competitions...

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Maybe but its already problem in european football. Big teams are to strong for rest. Champions League is joke before knockout stage. Barca,Real, Bayern - who can play against them? Thats why i want to create this-strong teams will play with strong and so on...  Domestic competitions will be here with clubs who are same strength-and you can qualify to european leagues trough them.

 

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I think it's a very interesting idea to make a European competion, although I agree with @Sankalan that 360 teams in such a structure is a bit too many. I would maximize it to 120 clubs, where you have 6 tiers (from European Premier League to League 5), without multiple divisions in a Tier. That discharges you of making some kind of regional divisions.

It could be interesting to set up such a competition structure, and take the CL and EL as a qualification tournament for the lowest tier of the European competitions.

Big problem indeed is the adjustments that will have to be made to the domestic competitions, but you can use your dynamic relegation system for a good purpose now :-)

As for the maximum number of clubs from a country, I think that would be hard to accomplish, and slightly unfair to teams from big countries that play outside the European competition. For example: I you maximize the number of teams to 6 and there are 6 Spanish teams in the top 2 Tiers, a new Spanish club would have to wait until one of those clubs are relegated out of the bottom Tier to have a chance of playing in the European competitition. I would let things take their course and see what happens.

If you take the Euro Club Index as a reference for the 120 teams to be chosen into the European competition, you would have 16 teams from England, Spain and Germany in the competition structure. I'm pretty sure that the remaining clubs from that countries will not play a big part in any sort of qualification for the lowest Tier, where as for the clubs from Holland (Ajax, Feyenoord, PSV and AZ Alkmaar would 'qualify') , maybe Vitesse and Heerenveen would be in contention for promotion to the European Lague. And all the Serbian clubs would stay in their domestic competition for the first season, so plenty of opportunities for Crvena Zvezda to wil the CL or EL, and qualify for the European competitions...

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5 hours ago, krlenjushka said:

yeah i understand what you try to say- but if i set 120 clubs- small countries are in problem then. will see- need to figure out some interesting system and also working system

As they are in real life... But I understand your point.

Maybe you should consider someting else, a bit like the Nations League for European countries.

Take 4 groups of 10 teams each, and let them play a double competition, so 36 games in total. The top 2 teams will play for the overall title in a knock-out phase. The bottom 2 of each competition are relegated to the European League 1. In That League 1, also 4 groups of 10 teams each will play a double competition, with the top 2 of every competition getting promoted, and the bottom 2 getting relegated to League 2, etc.

Draw of the group stage is then the most tricky part. You can either choose for some kind of regional draw, a draw which uses some kind of seeding, or a draw with no seeding at all. And what to do with teams of the same country? If you maximize the number of teams from one country to a maximum of 8, you can try to tell the game not to draw more than 2 teams from the same country together.

In this case, all the Tiers of the system would contain 40 teams, and you could go as deep as you wish. So with 360 teams, this would mean 9 Tiers. That's a lot, I would maximize it to 6 Tiers, which means 240 teams maximum.

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  • 5 months later...

I have some different idea now.

Spain.Germany , England and Italy (top 4 leagues) will remain same.

Other nations in Europe will make 8 regional leagues with 12 teams in each league.

Number of teams from some country will be dinamic (i explained this in "dynamic qualification thread"). In season #1 number of teams will be based by nations coefficients at the moment. Also in season #2 and after - winner will be qualified.

Something like this:

 

ciMGGNn.png

 

Domestic competions will be changed for all countries in 2 stages- autumn and spring season. Participationg teams in regional leagues will not play autumn season. Rest of teams will play autumn season and they will compete for qualification in play-off group with teams from regional leagues.

Example: league with 10 teams- 3 best teams from last season play regional league in autumn season. The other 7 teams play domestic league autumn season. Spots 1,2 and 3 are qualified for playoff group of spring season with 3 teams from regional league. They will compete for domestic title and for spots in next years regional division.

Teams from positions 4,5,6 and 7 in autumn season will play in play-out spring season group and will try to avoid relegation.

This regional leagues will be played in autumn season. As i said before-teams will not play domestic autumn season. They will compete for Champions Cup finals and Uefa cup finals. (winner qualify for CL-positions 2 and 3 qualify for Uefa cup or something like that).

I havent decided yet how to make Champions cup and Uefa cup.

I will change all european top divisions and make them with same rules for foreigners.

Also number of games for teams should be ok. 22 games in autumn season for regional league teams + 15-25 games in spring season.

 

 

 

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  • 2 weeks later...
9 minutes ago, nom245 said:

Seems very interesting.. I will look for the updates :thup:

Also i will use Champions league and Europa league for coefficients. Just need to figure out how to set competitions.

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  • 2 weeks later...
On 7/3/2017 at 12:39, krlenjushka said:

Also i will use Champions league and Europa league for coefficients. Just need to figure out how to set competitions.

Hi! I had a very similar idea that you explained. I wanted to do some division in parallel with domestic leagues for clubs of not-top nations (13 place in uefa club rating and less, about 40 nations in total).

So, if you have any ideas to discuss I would be glad to help you. You can write me even PM, we can talk about it more details

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18 minutes ago, bsanchezb said:

Hi! I had a very similar idea that you explained. I wanted to do some division in parallel with domestic leagues for clubs of not-top nations (13 place in uefa club rating and less, about 40 nations in total).

So, if you have any ideas to discuss I would be glad to help you. You can write me even PM, we can talk about it more details

Im still on testing. I want to use coefficients so i must use default champions league and europa league.

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15 hours ago, krlenjushka said:

Im still on testing. I want to use coefficients so i must use default champions league and europa league.

I have one question with your system. The moment with dynamic reputation I understood, it is actually very clever. But the question is how to change the number of teams in the autumn part of domestic championships? For example, if a top division contains 10 teams, and 3 from there play in the international region league. In this case in autumn part in the division play 7 teams (4-10). But imagine, that rating of the nation has changed, and we have only 2 teams in the regional league, and it means, that already 8 teams (3-10) must play in the domestic division.

So, is it possible to design?

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11 hours ago, bsanchezb said:

I have one question with your system. The moment with dynamic reputation I understood, it is actually very clever. But the question is how to change the number of teams in the autumn part of domestic championships? For example, if a top division contains 10 teams, and 3 from there play in the international region league. In this case in autumn part in the division play 7 teams (4-10). But imagine, that rating of the nation has changed, and we have only 2 teams in the regional league, and it means, that already 8 teams (3-10) must play in the domestic division.

So, is it possible to design?

yes - problem is free time now :)

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8 hours ago, forzaformia said:

Hi @krlenjushka, I just saw your idea of european leagues and I think it's very interesting. I've only a question: why don't you do a regional league with the ten worst european leagues (San Marino, Gibraltar, Faroer, Andorra etc)?  

because i want to make regional leagues

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On 7/15/2017 at 00:38, krlenjushka said:

yes - problem is free time now :)

Could you explain briefly, please, how to do the dynamic number of teams in national divisions (in that case, that for one season 3 teams in a regional league, next season 4, etc.).

I would try to do something similar with your idea by myself.

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9 minutes ago, bsanchezb said:

Could you explain briefly, please, how to do the dynamic number of teams in national divisions (in that case, that for one season 3 teams in a regional league, next season 4, etc.).

I would try to do something similar with your idea by myself.

read this

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@krlenjushka, I talk about a bit different thing. It's the qualification to regional leagues. This moment I understood. But, according to number of teams in regional league, we have to change number of teams in domestic division.

Example. There is a national division with 10 teams. Teams 1 and 2 play in a regional league. Therefore, for the autumn part we have 2 teams in the regional league and 8 in the domestic division (from 3 to 10 teams). But for the next year we have already 3 teams in the regional league, and it means, that in new autumn stage in the domestic division should be only 7 teams. But how to do it? Take one team more from lower division? Or we can manage the number of teams in divisions? So, the question is how to change the number of teams exactly in the top domestic championship? But and for spring part. In the first case we have to take 4 teams from domestic division (2+4), and the second one - only 3 (3+3).

And one more question. Imagine, that we have a qualification stage to the regional tournament. In this case, again, we can get different number of teams in the domestic division. So, if it is possible, how to implement it?

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10 hours ago, bsanchezb said:

@krlenjushka, I talk about a bit different thing. It's the qualification to regional leagues. This moment I understood. But, according to number of teams in regional league, we have to change number of teams in domestic division.

Example. There is a national division with 10 teams. Teams 1 and 2 play in a regional league. Therefore, for the autumn part we have 2 teams in the regional league and 8 in the domestic division (from 3 to 10 teams). But for the next year we have already 3 teams in the regional league, and it means, that in new autumn stage in the domestic division should be only 7 teams. But how to do it? Take one team more from lower division? Or we can manage the number of teams in divisions? So, the question is how to change the number of teams exactly in the top domestic championship? But and for spring part. In the first case we have to take 4 teams from domestic division (2+4), and the second one - only 3 (3+3).

And one more question. Imagine, that we have a qualification stage to the regional tournament. In this case, again, we can get different number of teams in the domestic division. So, if it is possible, how to implement it?

its easy to do. Just add lines in teams section:

- Get league stage teams, regional competition, stage 0 , ignore teams -yes

-get all teams from division

 

this way you will exlude your teams from regional competition and autumn season will use other teams.

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  • 2 weeks later...

I managed to figure out how to set club continental competitions for my project.

We have 12 leagues that gives clubs for euro comps. 4 top divisions and 8 regional leagues.

Champions league will be with 32 clubs (8 groups of 4 teams just like default) and participating teams will be:

- last winner of CL

-last winner of EL

-winner and runner-up of all 12 divisions

-6 winners of playoff between 12 3rd places teams in 12 divisions.

 

Europa league will be with 32 clubs (also 8 groups of 4 teams) nd participating teams will be:

-6 losers of playoff between 12 3rd places teams in 12 divisions.

-12   4th placed teams from 12 divisions

- 14 teams from qualification rounds.

Qualifications for Europa league will be played in 3 rounds.

First round will include 8th placed teams from 8 regional divisions. 4 matches, 4 teams go to second round.

Second round will include 4 winers of first round, 4   8th placed teams from 4 top divisions, 12   6th placed and 12  7th placed teams from 12 divisions.   32 teams total, 16 go to playoff.

Playoff round will include 16 winners from second round and 12   5th placed teams from 12 divisions. 28 teams , 14 go to group stage.

 

So you can see every of 12 leagues can give 8 teams for continental competitions. Maybe this seems to much but i want to give chance for small teams to compete and also to make sure there is reason to play your league 100% to the end.

Also i need to make sure that almost every nation recieve some coefficient point because after 6-7 seasons we can have 20 nations with coefficient zero.

 

Hope you guys understand this and of course i hope you like this idea.

:onmehead:

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6 minutes ago, krlenjushka said:

?? dont understand your question...

I think he's trying to say if there is an available beta db, but I understand you are only prepairing it, not started to edit.

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On 30/07/2017 at 13:56, Yespy13 said:

I think he's trying to say if there is an available beta db, but I understand you are only prepairing it, not started to edit.

No im far from beta- i started editing but now its all about testing and solving problems. When i take care about everything - then its not hard to create this.

Working coefficients is crucial here - thats why i need more time. Also i need somehow to adapt top 4 divisions (Spain, England, Germany and Italy) to work with my system. All other European countries will have 12 teams top divsion.

Also i need to add new "qualification places" picture to the game:

 

nwsrZiY.jpg

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2 hours ago, Yespy13 said:

Is it an error that the top team in the top divisions qualifies for those top divisions? (It looks awsome)

No its not-winner qualifies for regional division (next year) and 2nd, 3rd,4th can qualify depending on some factors and regional league.

Maybe you dont understand system and i can explain if needed...

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This seems to be the most complicated league setup ever created for FM yet.

If I understand correctly, the number of teams in each division except the 4 national ones may change depending on European cup performance? For example if Croatia gains one extra place at the expense of another country (say Switzerland), the Balkan division will grow to 13 and the division Swiss clubs are in shrink to 11 teams?

What about the top level of national leagues? Is it variable too? On the screenshots above, Kazachstan league has 11 teams because Astana is playing in the UEFA division. If Kazachstan gains another place, will the league be reduced to 10 teams? I thought that dynamically changing league size was impossible to do in FM.

 

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10 hours ago, krlenjushka said:

No its not-winner qualifies for regional division (next year) and 2nd, 3rd,4th can qualify depending on some factors and regional league.

Maybe you dont understand system and i can explain if needed...

UEFA Eastern Division:
Top teams qualify to UEFA Eastern Division
Two top teams qualify for UEFA Champions League group stage
(and so on)

 

This is what I don't understand very well

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Its simple - winner of UEFA Eastern Division qualify for next year no matter what they do in domestic league.

Domestic leagues gives teams only for regional divisions. Regional divisions (8 regional divisions + 4 top leagues) gives teams for Champions and Europa league.

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4 hours ago, valve said:

If I understand correctly, the number of teams in each division except the 4 national ones may change depending on European cup performance? For example if Croatia gains one extra place at the expense of another country (say Switzerland), the Balkan division will grow to 13 and the division Swiss clubs are in shrink to 11 teams

 

No Balkan division (and other 7 regional divsions) will always have 12 teams- just participating teams will change and number of teams from 1 nation can change. For example: Balkan division is for 9 nations so: 9 winners of domestic league, 2 second placed teams from domestic leagues(depending on Nation Club Coeff. list) and last years winner (this way some nation can have 3 teams in regional division).

 

What about the top level of national leagues? Is it variable too? On the screenshots above, Kazachstan league has 11 teams because Astana is playing in the UEFA division. If Kazachstan gains another place, will the league be reduced to 10 teams? I thought that dynamically changing league size was impossible to do in FM.

 

 

National leagues are variable but just autumn season.  Its played without teams from regional divisions. For example-  Croatia have 3 teams in regional division this year- autumn season will be played with 9 teams. Bottom 4 are qualified for relegation group- other 5 teams + 3 teams from regional division will play in championship group to determine champion and to determine who will play next years regional division.

 

I hope you understand now...

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UEFA East-Central Division is finished...

 

Yg1r1fx.jpg

 

TheswuN.jpg

 

..with 5 national leagues for this regional division.

Moldovan top division:

 

uHnYEPc.jpg

 

 

Soon....

 

 

Also if you have suggestion for regional league names - im here.

How can i call South-Western Division? 

Or East-Central?  Eastern Division?

Balkan, Scandinavian, Mediterranean, Central and Atlantic are good IMO

 

 

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7 hours ago, Spurs08 said:

With this system, would the teams from very small countries compete every year? It seems silly to have the champions of Andorra and Gibraltar constantly lose against huge teams from France and Portugal every season...

This is small problem for that regional division. Maybe i create some qualification round for last 2 spots...

This is also issue for clubs from San Marino in Central division, clubs from Kosovo in Balkan division - maybe for clubs from Malta and F.Islands also.

Any suggestion?

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21 hours ago, bsanchezb said:

Maybe create a special division for small countries? Just give them only one place to CL instead of 2+1


This file is all about european regional divisions - thats why i want to keep them in original regions.

I will create as i thought so i can change this later if needed.

Small coutries are small and there isnt anything i can do to make them better.

Maybe solution for this problem is qualification rounds for every regional division.

I will stick to the original idea - for now.

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  • 4 months later...
  • 1 month later...

UEFA Balkan Division is finished with 2 playable levels for all 9 countries - Albania, Bosnia & Herz, Bulgaria, FYR Macedonia, Kosovo, Montenegro, Serbia and Slovenia.

UEFA Eastern Division is Finioshed with 1-2 playable levels for 8 countries - Armenia, Azerbaijan, Estonia, Georgia, Kazakhstan, Latvia, Lithuania and Russia.

 

m5u3CWz.png

 

aGGjsu2.png

 

TTvYT3x.png

 

NOb0LpQ.png

 

KqYSOpN.png

 

Ob8GApO.png

 

TuFA9iA.png

 

cNLFD7s.png

 

 

I will start to work on UEFA East-Central Division and 5 nations - Belarus, Moldova, Poland, Romania and Ukraine.

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UEFA East-Central Division is finished with 2 playable levels for all 5 countries - Belarus, Moldova, Poland, Romania and Ukraine.

I also fixed attendance for all clubs i edited so far and i fixed training and youth settings for clubs without that records.

BTW default database have many countries with very strange data - proof that Head Researchers dont co-operate with each other when they edit data. I tried to raise this "issue" but as usual - i get very strange answers and bad attitude from people responsible for this part of FM.  I dont wanna point fingers to anyone but why do we have Database and Research section???

I will just give one example -its Lithuania and who ever edited  this - please dont do it anymore. He just added all 9 settings for clubs with reputation 3000-4500, all 7 for clubs with reputation 1500-3000.

6DvYpzA.png

 

If this is way to edit database in game in year 2018. - please dont do it.

 

Enough with this - screenshots from my latest edit:

 

uPQgo5K.png

 

TZhoFL4.png

 

711UPV0.png

 

XjpgQi0.png

 

 

I will continue work - next is UEFA Central Division and 6 nations - Chech Republic, Switzerland, Austia, Slovakia, Hungary and San Marino

 

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UEFA Central Division is finished with 2 playable levels for all 6 countries - Chech Republic, Switzerland, Austia, Slovakia, Hungary and San Marino

Screenshots:

 

DeepinScreenshot_select-area_20180227194914.thumb.png.e908d03f63c4449d78d69931e4ffff96.png

DeepinScreenshot_select-area_20180227201018.thumb.png.7c80ce60fb52f3d7a87794a05c11aa37.png

DeepinScreenshot_select-area_20180227201033.thumb.png.59e92f5dc9d3896c6a9bcfc9e24f2ddf.png

 

I removed FC Vaduz from Swiss second league because of Liechtenstein continental settings.

 

Next is UEFA Mediterranean Division and all 5 nations - Turkey, Greece, Israel, Cyprus and Malta.

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1 hour ago, krlenjushka said:

UEFA Central Division is finished with 2 playable levels for all 6 countries - Chech Republic, Switzerland, Austia, Slovakia, Hungary and San Marino

Screenshots:

 

DeepinScreenshot_select-area_20180227194914.thumb.png.e908d03f63c4449d78d69931e4ffff96.png

DeepinScreenshot_select-area_20180227201018.thumb.png.7c80ce60fb52f3d7a87794a05c11aa37.png

DeepinScreenshot_select-area_20180227201033.thumb.png.59e92f5dc9d3896c6a9bcfc9e24f2ddf.png

 

I removed FC Vaduz from Swiss second league because of Liechtenstein continental settings.

 

Next is UEFA Mediterranean Division and all 5 nations - Turkey, Greece, Israel, Cyprus and Malta.

The big question: can La Fiorita score a goal this season?! :D

Looks great, can't wait for the update!

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