Help me build my LL KISS YA Tactic

[Areolys]

What's up guys?

Alright, since I'm really struggling with my new safe I need some help with getting the basics of a strategy together that will work for me going forward. So here's where I'm at right now:

I'm managing Keymer & Hassocks at Mid Sussex Division 9 (Level 22). I try to get to the top and I'm not allowed to buy or loan any player, so I will have to fully rely on my youth academy to bring in new players. We're predicted to be dead last and currently we are.

Bumpy road so far: http://prntscr.com/de3uy9

Here's our comparison reports: General | All Positions | Goalkeepers | Defense | Midfield | Attack | Physical | Mental | Technical

First Team and Reserves & U18s

 

EDIT: Here's what I've come up with in terms of strategy.

 

The Limitations

• I am not allowed to loan or buy players
• I play at level 22 in England, so talent is scarce
• I play an amateur team, so players may leave without notice
• I want to keep it as simple as possible
• We don't have many games per season

My thoughts

I want to build a system that can be used for the long haul. I don't like to change tactics to suit one star player, specially if he's prone to injuries and or free transfers all the time. So I'd like to keep just 44 players. 2 players per position in my main squad and the same in my youth team. With time I might increase the number and basically build a third squad, but for now I'd like to just focus on two squads.

Since the talent is scarce I think it would be best to stay away of specialized roles that ask for too many high attributes at once in order to work.

With the limited talent I suspect that our team will not be the greatest and we will be the underdogs quite frequently. With that in mind I think it might be better to try and play more defensively and look for our luck in counters. The main goal will be to quickly get to the higher levels so that we can build up our youth and training facilities and work with better talents.

The tactic

So I'm looking for a tactic that ticks the following boxes:

• Simple roles to make it easy to build up good players
• defensively sound, so we manage to get points even against better opponents
• dumbed down system to keep it as simple as possible
• keep posession of the ball to prevent getting goals
• rely more on counter-attacking

Now, when it comes to a specific system I'm open for suggestions. I've been looking at a lot of tactics, videos and read up on roles etc. Yet, I'm still none the wiser.

I would really prefer to find a system that I could play both offensively and defensively with the same players. Otherwise, it will all get too complicated again.

If it's a 4-4-2, 4-2-3-1, 4-3-3 doesn't matter as long as it ticks the boxes mentioned above (plus anything else I didn't think about).

So far I've played with a 4-3-1-2 narrow with 1 FB on attack. But it didn't go so well. I was thinking about playing wide or with IF, but since all my players suck at long shots I feel that my chances are better if I get more people into the box than out on the sides where they end up shooting into the stands.

The attributes

Currently I'm looking for the following attributes for my team:

Work Rate, Pace, Acceleration, Strenght.

For the defenders I also look for positioning and anticipation
For the FBs I look at crossing and passing too
For the Midfielders I look for good passing, decisions and First touch
For the forwards I look for high finishing, first touch and passing, as long as they are quick.

 

 

What do you guys think would be the best setup for my situation in the long run? Should I go with wingers or should I stick to a narrow playstyle? What tactics would work best for the lowest leagues and limited selection of players?
I'm more looking for an overall system that I can then tweak and make it work, but since I have no clue what I'm doing I'd be really happy to get some pointers so that I take the best route possible.

 

Thanks for any input! :-)

[Areolys]

I did a quick test play where I started with a 4-3-1-2 narrow and at half time switched over to a 4-2-3-1. In the narrow formation the players were not spaced out enough and bunched up together too much (Duuh!). They passed the ball around between the midfield and the AF/ TM. I don't like that. There are too many people in a too narrow space. The FBs were hardly utilized and they had to come in too close to the center to be of any use.

Here's what I'd like the team to look like when we've got the ball: http://lineupbuilder.com/?sk=d3wy0
The IFs should go into the box and join the Striker. With 3 guys in prime position I should be able to make a pass behind the defense that one of them can then push into the net. I don't want them to shoot from too far out.
The FBS should come up the sides and support the attack on the flanks. Hitting in some crosses and passes to the 3 guys up front in the box.
The midfielders should be staggered. One that makes the deadly passes with another one supporting him. The third one should stay further back with the CD to secure the back.
 

Here's how I'd like the team to look like when we defend: http://lineupbuilder.com/?sk=d3wx9
The 3 guys in the front can do some basic defending if needed, but I'd like them to stay deep and be ready for a counter. One of them could stay a little deeper.
The Central Midfielders should close the middle, disturb their buildup play as much as possible.
Since the FBs probably won't be back in time I'd like to have at least one more midfielder ready to defend.
 

With all that in mind, I'm thinking about setting up either a 4-1-2-2-1 or a 4-2-3-1. This would be my offensive strategy. If I want to stay more defensive I'd switch over to a 4-1-4-1, putting the two IFs back as WMa/s.

This would give me the following roles in my team:

Striker: I don't know what role he should be yet. (please help me out here guys). Is it a waste to have a Poacher in this setup? I'd like him to be up front at all times, ready to pounce and score. I don't want him to go back and get the ball, since he'll most likely not find anyone to pass the ball towards anyways. (Correct me if I'm wrong here.) Stats: Acc, Pac, Fir, Fin, Pas

IF/Wingers: Those guys should play more like left and right strikers than wingers in an attacking setup, but keep the game a bit wider to open up more gaps. Stats: Cro, Dri, Pas, Fir, Fin

Central Midfield: Here I'm thinking about one of each: the attacking one would need: Acc, Dri, Pas, Fir, Vis (or Dec?!). The support guy should have: Pas, Fir, Vis, Dec, ??? and the defending guy should be good at defending, so: Acc, Pac, Pos, Ant, Tac

FBs: They need to be quick and constantly run up and down the flanks, so they need to have: Cro, Pas, Acc, Pac, WR

CD: Those guys should just make sure nobody gets past. They should be quick if the opponent tries a long ball, so I'm looking at: Acc, Pac, Pos, Ant, Tac

GK: Not sure if he should be a SK or a plain old GK, but I guess his main stats should be Handling, Reflexes and 1on1 - just in case.

 

In terms of mentality and structure I think I'd be safest with Control / Counter and Structured. The guys are just not good enough to read the game and a fluid game would probably look something like this . They can't be trusted.

 

Am I doing it right so far?
 

Edit: One more question: What's the difference between a 4-2-xxx vs a 4-1-xxx is it more defensivley sound or not?

[BadAss88]

I'm just gonna mark 2 things..' 44 players ' & ' level 22 ' ???

Why do you wan't to spend so much money on players you don't need the next year?

[Areolys]

12 minutes ago, BadAss88 said:

I'm just gonna mark 2 things..' 44 players ' & ' level 22 ' ???

Why do you wan't to spend so much money on players you don't need the next year?

 

Because I've limited myself to only use players that come up from my youth academy and I'm not allowed to transfer or loan anyone into the team. It's part of the challenge.

Also, currently they're all free since they're amateurs :-)

Or do you suggest that I just add all youth players straight into the main squad and play them straight away? And get rid of any excess?

[phnompenhandy]

I'm using the same file, starting at the same level with the same restrictions, so I'm on the same page.

Given the revolving door of playing staff, I keep to a bog-standard 442 so that incoming kids can easily slot in. In contrast to you I keep as small a squad as possible because the players need to play together in the first team as much as possible to build up an understanding. The first few months watching them play is utterly comical but they do improve with sufficient experience. In those very low divisions the number of matches is so few that I find two goalkeepers and two players per outfield position is adequate - i.e. a full squad of 22 plus 2 or 3 other outfielders who can play a multitude of positions to cover for injury crises. Even then, with hardly any weeks where you play two fixtures and need to rest players, the same 16-man match squad to should maintained until you get injuries.

Given the dearth of matches (plus the cup games come too early and I always get knocked out in the first round) I keep arranging friendlies for free weekends to keep getting the team to gel and keep up match fitness, especially for the non-first teamers.

In the first season or two I find my goalkeeper saves about one shot in ten - the mannequin challenge is nothing on these guys, and my defenders are a joke, so the key is to score more than you concede as well as trying to control the midfield to limit the oppositions' chances for free goals. I have 2 tactics: 442 Control and 442 Counter - which I mostly use; whereas I keep TIs to a minimum (as well as OIs), I do maintain a direct style meaning early crosses and long balls up to a pair of speedy strikers. Other key attributes are nice but beggars can't be choosers. As much as I love wingbacks and attacking fullbacks, at this level I have all my defenders on basic defending duties. I'll have a central midfielder on defensive duty too, 2 on support, one on attack (the other central midfielder or a winger depending on who's best) with an AF(a) and DF(s) up front. 

Another thing I notice is that for me anyway, all my kids had very low determination, as when they'd go behind you noticed their heads visibly dropping. Determination matters then - short of tutoring, how do you ensure that attribute is decent? The academy kids' personalities are affected by the backroom staff, which again are limited in the extreme, so here's my tip (that I haven't tested myself) - when you create yourself as a manager make sure YOU have a fairly high score in Determination.

This kind of save is a long-term project - you can expect to struggle in the first season in particular. However, you start season 2 with a gelled squad who are familiar with your tactics - providing you don't chop and change too much, hence my advising against keeping all your kids and rotating them. I cull most of my academy intake after a year of assessment - injury prone ones go, as do ones who complain a lot about raining or anything else. I try to mould a squad of professionally-minded youths. As the squad becomes professional, the group personality rubs off on newbies and in time you'll have a squad who might lack the technicals, but will have the character to grind out results. 

Losing valuable players is a real pain, but only the best ones tend to desert; if you have no outstanding individuals but a good team ethic, you're more likely to retain most of your players. Again, things improve in the long term with this strategy as academy kids will come through having strong personal bonds with your staff as well as their local club, and they'll be more loyal.

[Areolys]

Thanks @phnompenhandy for your response.

Really interesting to hear from a fellow lunatic ;-)

I seem to do much better than you in the cups this time around. http://prntscr.com/deazrf But the two career saved before this one I was unlucky too and got eliminated straight away.

Whenever I don't have a match this week I always set up a friendly against my u23 squad. That way nearly all my players get to play and increase their sharpness. And at least some guys morale will be up ;-)

But I will think about dropping the idea with the second squad and just keep about 25 players in the team at all times. I guess the more you progress the better players will come through the YA, and with the terrible training facilities I won't be able to train them up for first team level anyways.

Will have to think about using a 4-4-2. It gives a lot more options in terms of players and reduced the amount of specialized players you'd have to find. I could always go back to a more fancy tactic once I'm higher up...

 

For me it's a constant up and down. I had a terrible streak where I lost nearly all my games which got me questioning my whole system. Right now I'm playing a 4-1-2-3 DM Wide and I managed to dethrone the #1 twice and advance in the Junior Cup. The league is hard. 3rd - 11th are all within 2 points of each other.

[phnompenhandy]

1 minute ago, Areolys said:

Whenever I don't have a match this week I always set up a friendly against my u23 squad. That way nearly all my players get to play and increase their sharpness. And at least some guys morale will be up ;-)

But I will think about dropping the idea with the second squad and just keep about 25 players in the team at all times. I guess the more you progress the better players will come through the YA, and with the terrible training facilities I won't be able to train them up for first team level anyways.

Whilst friendlies against your U23s might help with gelling, morale and match fitness, it doesn't do much to increase their attributes, and neither does the few hours spent a week on training with the poor quality of facilities and coaching. The only thing that significantly gets the players' attributes up is competitive first team experience.

Another tip: IF you can ever persuade the board to spend some money, your priority should be 'junior coaching'. That will increase the CA of the academy kids who come to you. There's no point in them having high PA - you can't optimise that and they'll be guaranteed to be poached. But with better CA, they're more likely to slot straight into your first team squad.

I've hit those vicious cycles of long losing streaks and slumps in morale - hard to crack. The solution to that is my long-term strategy of  developing a stable of professional players with good determination. It makes the squad a lot more resilient. But always keep in mind, the first season is by far the hardest. Once you've put certain foundations in place, they'll keep you in good stead for future seasons.

[Areolys]

LL KISS alpha

Alright. Went back to the drawing board. For this career, I've said out to keep it as simple as possible. And it's the name of the game, so let's run trough it again.

Formation

Can't go more simple than a 4-4-2. It's plain ass vanilla flavored football. But it will do for right now.

Firstly, I want to be safe at the back and concede less goals. Hence I keep the FBs on support so in an attacking motion they fill up the slots in the midfield. On the left side the winger is on attack duty in order to spread out the play and get them crosses in. Next to him is the CMd to secure the side and he gets some help from the FB too. This side should be covered. In the midfield I opted for one high one low. The CMs will be my "playmaker" of sorts. But I opted to not use this role and to - keep it simple. ;-) The Wide midfielder will also support the play on the right. Not sure if the CM and the WM will be in each others ways too much. I'll have to have a look at it.
Also, I might change the roles and have a WM on attack and a W on support.
Up front we've got the basic combo: I might change the AF to a poacher and the DLF to a DF, not sure yet.

Shape & Mentality

Remeber KISS? My players can't be trusted to "be creative", hence I opt for a Structured shape. Maybe, but just maybe I'll let them play more flexible once in a while. But I won't go crazy and let them do whatever they want. We serious. The mentality will vary from match to match. Mostly we'll stick with Counter and Control. I'd like to stick with control as much as possible for the most part. Once we scored 1-2 goals we'll sit further back and play on counter. Let them run at us while we chill back there.

TIs

Work Ball Into Box: Slow and steady wins the race. No need to rush it and try and shoot from too far away if you can't even hit the goal from more than 10 meters away. let the Strikers do their job and score the goals. Thank you.

That's it for now. Wait what? Yeah. KISS.

I'll experiment with the tempo and the passing instructions. Generally, I want them to make shorter passes, but if the chance is there they should also launch our guys up front with long balls. All other instructions should be set and adjusted on a per game setting, adapting to the opponent and the situation.

The boys

I repeat myself: Keep. it. simple. stupid.
We'll be having our First Team of 11 and our second team of 11 as backups. They will rotate as substitutes and fill the injured positions. On top of that we might keep a few more players around. Mainly promising youngsters that will be tutored and that stay on as emergency backups.

I'm just a too nice guy to not let all my players get their chances, so I will rotate a bit. But: You got to earn your spot with good performances! We've got our base 11, but if anyone of them play like crap they're out for a while and the best sub/reserve player will take his spot. This way I can also make sure that all players do have an adequate form. Rotate yes, but only where it makes sense and where it's needed, don't rotate for rotating's sake.

The attributes

Gimme some more of that KISS!

Team Flavour / DNA:
WR, Acc, Pac, Str, Det
My team should be quick and hard working in general. Passing will be a nice bonus for all players, but it's more important to be quick and strong enough and to have a high work rate. No space for complainers or lazy people. We workin' here.

AFa: Acc, Pac, Fin
DLFs: Acc, Pas, Fir
Wa: Acc, Cro, Pas
CMd: Pos, Ant, Tac
CMs: Pas, Des, Fir
WMs: Pas, Fir, Dri
FBs: Cro, Pas, Ant
CDd: Pac, Pos, Ant
Everything else will be a bonus, but I'll first and foremost look at just those attributes and judge a player on that.
If a player has the average team DNA he's made the first step. After that, I will look at the role attributes and select the first team based on that. 

Bottom line

Can I go any simpler than that?`Maybe. I won't be giving up my spreadsheet where I track all players attributes and how they developed, what mentality they have and who'd be the best tutor for them.

But all in all, I think I kept it as simple as possible. After all, Keymer & Hassocks is just a regular Pub team, and no money making, goal shooting, in your face modern football, world-class team. It's just some lads playing some ball in the park.

 

LL KISS my friends.

[phnompenhandy]

12 hours ago, Areolys said:

You got to earn your spot with good performances! We've got our base 11, but if anyone of them play like crap they're out for a while and the best sub/reserve player will take his spot.    

 

I probably should have mentioned earlier that with your young kids at this level you have to expect very low consistency. They will all play a good game followed by a couple of stinkers. So don't be too hasty to drop them. 

 

Don't praise the professional ones unless they really deserve it, and be careful to criticise the flakier ones.

[Areolys]

45 minutes ago, phnompenhandy said:

 

I probably should have mentioned earlier that with your young kids at this level you have to expect very low consistency. They will all play a good game followed by a couple of stinkers. So don't be too hasty to drop them. 

 

Don't praise the professional ones unless they really deserve it, and be careful to criticise the flakier ones.

 

I won't kick them off the team because one or two bad games.

It's mostly for who gets to sit on the bench. Other factors will also come into play, like match sharpness, how many games missed etc. But generally I like to give the guy with the higher "last 5 games" score the chance to play more. And every once in a while I look at the first team and start their backup if they performed better.

A guy with 7+ rating in their last 5 games has a very high chance to get into the first team as long as he keeps up his performance and the other one plays like crap. The other one will still get plenty of chances as a sub to "redeem" himself.

[Areolys]

First match with the new system: http://prntscr.com/dek47b

We played on control, but that did not happen. For the sake of testing I did not adjust anything and just substituted the players that were tired.

The team did not have too many chances, and it might have been better to switch over to counter. One thing I noticed is that they did not defend well. It looks like they are too scared to attack the ball holding player, giving them enough space to pass and score.

They just stand in front of them. How do I get them to apply more pressure without getting cards?

Stones II v Keymer & Hassocks.pkm

[Areolys]

Next match was a friendly against a team that's supposed to be much, much weaker then us.

We managed to beat them with a whopping 1-0. Yeah, we showed them!

Again, I did not change anything to just see how it went. And yeah, we pretty much sat back and shook. Were we in control? Nope. Again, we were too much in our own half defending than doing anything else. They had too many chances and if they would've been a little luckier we'd never have won this game.

I'll give it another try and see if I can help things by changing some TIs during the game. But I kinda doubt it...

Keymer & Hassocks v Lindfield IV.pkm

[Areolys]

Third time's a charm?

Well, we managed to win another friendly. Not bad. However, it was once again a bit too close for my comfort. This time I changed the TIs mid game to close down more and lower tempo in order to increase our possession. It may have helped a little, but I'd like to see possession of 55-60% while playing control.

Next match will be the first that really count. Let's see how we'll do. And then I'll report back.

Keymer & Hassocks v AFC Uckfield IV.pkm

[Areolys]

The first half was a nightmare. They scored two goals and even tough we were supposed to be the favorites we couldn't prove it.
I set retain possession, but that didn't do jack for us. The players still shot the ball up front into no mans land with no real threat near them. They kept the ball to themselves while the got attacked instead of passing it to a free teammate.

In the second half I tried shorter passing and a higher tempo. Less stupid passes up front, but there's a gap between the midfield and the attack that takes too long to bridge. A lucky punch from a set piece gets us back into the game.
With 72 minutes I decide to put the FBs on attack. Time to bring out more pressure. But this did nothing at all.

All in all? Disappointing. We are not steady at the back and we lost the firepower we did have up front. It seems like the switch to the new system was a bad move.

I'm looking for some inputs here.

I either need to shoot much more goals or concede less, and the idea behind my tactic is to keep the ball in our possession a whole lot more. What do I need to do? 

Fletching II v Keymer & Hassocks.pkm

[Areolys]

That's more like it.

I had to use more TIs(5) but it got the job done. The result was not impressive, but we played a good game. High possession, good control.

I've used: higher tempo, shorter passing, close down much more, play out of defense, work ball into box.

The tempo is just a preference, but the other 4 instructions seem to do what I want them to do: keep the ball in our ranks.

I've also changed to flexible and this seemed to have helped too(further testing required). We won two important cup games, but are still at the bottom in the league. No promotion this year.

AFC Ringmer II v Keymer & Hassocks.pkm

[phnompenhandy]

16 hours ago, Areolys said:

One thing I noticed is that they did not defend well. It looks like they are too scared to attack the ball holding player, giving them enough space to pass and score.

They just stand in front of them. How do I get them to apply more pressure without getting cards?

You just have to accept that at this level in the first part of the first season, your defenders will be utter utter utter numpties, as will your goalkeeper. There's nothing you can do but persist with them. In compensation however, the opposition are just as hopeless. As I mentioned, you'll start the second season with a team that have finally got to grips with your instructions - as long as you don't change the line-up too much.

[Areolys]

Here's another update: 

First was the semi final for the junior cup. (Still don't know how we got so far) but.... we're in the Final Baby!

Next we played Heath Rangers (Ranked #3 in the league). And managed to salvage a draw. Still not too shabby. At least we're out of the last place (for now...)

Just a few days later we were facing Buxted III (Ranked #2 in the league). We were the underdogs and predicted to lose. And while they were still in the race for promotion they wanted to walk away with a lead. But we kicked their asses ! We were clearly the weaker team on the field but I strongly believe our tactic made all the difference.

This is what I was looking for. High possession, good passing and solid defending(sort of).

4 hours ago, phnompenhandy said:

As I mentioned, you'll start the second season with a team that have finally got to grips with your instructions - as long as you don't change the line-up too much.

I tried to play the same guys as much as possible now, and I feel like they start to play better as a whole now. Looking forward to see how it will develop.

 

I'll be playing the last 3 games of the season and then present my LL KISS beta tactic.

[Areolys]

LL KISS 2.0

Here I am at the end of the first season. It was a struggle, and we didn't finish well in the league. To be honest, I was expecting more. Either way, I had the chance to try out different things this season and went back to square one twice. Ok, maybe 3 times. But no more, I swear!
Either way. The 4-4-2 did not work for me. I didn't like the way we got back into our half and how we had to rely solely on long counter balls while having a leaky defense. It's just not the way I want to play. Route one football might work very well in the lower leagues, but that's not fun for me. I want to do it "the right way" and by right, I mean my way. If it'll take longer, so be it. If we get beaten at least we can go back home, knowing we tried to play attractive football for our fans. Even if it's just 9 (Love all y' all!). So here it is, KISS 2.0...
We managed do get some great results with this formation already, and the bad games were not as terrible as with the 4-4-2, so for me it's a winner. At least for now.

Formation

Here it is:

Yup. I went with a 4-3-3 or 4-1-2-2-1. If we'd want to close down shop we could always pull back the IFs and go with a 4-1-4-1, but so far we did great even against better teams.

So, why change formation? Because we were pushed too far back with the 4-4-2 and our defense wasn't any better. Can't concede any goals while you're on the attack.

In terms of roles I tried to stick to the most basic roles possible. The only exception to this are probably the IF. But we'll see how it goes. If we can't find the right players that can play as inside forward then we can still change one to a winger or something. But, so far so good. :-)

Shape & Mentality

I've stuck with Structured. It's working well for me, so don't change a winning system. So far, we always started with a counter mentality. Right now, we're the underdog in just about any match. If we do well, I bump it up to Control and if I'm desperate I try attacking(usually to no avail). 

TIs

We can't keep it as simple as one instruction. But we managed to stick to just 3 for now.

Shorter Passing - No need to try crazy passing if your passing stinks. It's better to keep the ball and let the other team run after you.
Play Narrower - The IF should get into the box when we're attacking. That's why we play narrower so they don't roam on the flanks too much. Maybe I'll add a PI too to play narrow.
Close Down Much More - I don't want them to have enough time to build up their play. Put them under pressure right away, but don't go Klopp crazy.

The boys

Yeah, have a team of 11 as a base. They will be selected based on our DNA and the role attributes listed below. I keep it simple and add up the points and chose between the top 3-4 who get's into team 1.
I have a complete backup team that's ready to jump in for injuries, bad performers, and transfers.

Each season I'll select the top 5 players. Based on stats and on who I currently need in my team. They'll be able to stay with us for at least a season. Each end of the season I'll rearrange the team, everyone who's not selected for team 1 or 2 will have to find another place. This should - in theory - leave me with 27 players at all times. 30 will be the absolute max.

The attributes

Gimme some more of that KISS!

Team Flavour / DNA:
WR, Acc, Pac, Str, Det
Yeah. Quick and hard working team. I will try and tutor players up in personality and determination as good as I can, but I guess it will take a while until this is fully in place. Passing and First Touch are another nice bonus I look at, but currently I try and find players that have at least 5 in the stats above. (Currently it's more 3-4/5, but ah well...)

DLFs: Fir, Pas, Acc
IFa: Dri, Fin, Dec
CMa/s: Pas, Fir, Dec - interchangeable. If one has better long shot he'll be on a.
DMd: Tac, Pos, Ant
FBa: Cro, Acc, Ant
CDd: Pac, Pos, Tac

Bottom line

Looking good. At least I like it. We'll see how we'll do in the next season.

Please, leave your comments and remarks here. I'm still learning the whole game so every bit helps.

Want to know how we'll do in the future? Follow my carrer thread: