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Jcl0303

Hardest game ever

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Is it me or does anyone else think football manager 17 is the hardest fm ever ? 

It seems like if you are managing a team expected to be in a relegation battle, when you play against a team who are big favourites to beat you , no matter what you do, it is a matter of by how many goals they beat you , and the games you do win are home games against teams below you or teams who have already lost about 6 in a row and are in very bad form. Fm 15 was the best game I thought , you could take any team you wanted and achieve things as long as you are half decent at fm and you know what you're doing. Don't want it to sound like I'm having a moan because I'm not. Just wondered if anyone else shares my opinion that the game has become a little bit repetitive. Ps I'm not new to the game been playing it for years and just can't manage to get on with this years 

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Who are you playing with?

Ill be honest I'm in my third season with Liverpool and finding it quite easy.

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I'm in the second season with Millwall in League One. With seven games to play, we're currently in 2nd place and on a ten-match unbeaten run (we've also had an eight-match run without losing this season). That's largely down to me rebuilding the team after a poor first season, keeping my players happy and motivated, and setting up a tactic that delivers entertaining football as well as results.

I should add that we have had the occasional defensive meltdown and choked on a couple of 2-0 leads recently, but by and large, we are meeting - and exceeding - expectations.

If you are struggling badly, there are plenty of things you can do to try and improve your results. The first thing I'd suggest is to figure out if your biggest issue is a tactical one. Hop over to the Tactics sub-forum, explain clearly what your predicament is, and what tactics and strategies you're using, and then the community will try to help you out.

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I skipped the first season and took charge of Stockport county (who have just been promoted to the national league) but with a decent budget , which I have made good use of. I'm only 6or 7 games into the season only 1 win very unconvincing 2-1 home win over Maidstone Utd. It's just really frustrating because I know how to play the game. Also another thing is we are part time so not training nowhere near as much as a lot of teams in the league - the board have refused to go full time. However the board are 'very pleased' with my management of the team and I've got a 100% full bar for philosophy's and none of my bars are below 50% so it's not all bad just got to put a decent run of results together 

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3 hours ago, Jcl0303 said:

I skipped the first season and took charge of Stockport county (who have just been promoted to the national league) but with a decent budget , which I have made good use of. I'm only 6or 7 games into the season only 1 win very unconvincing 2-1 home win over Maidstone Utd. It's just really frustrating because I know how to play the game. Also another thing is we are part time so not training nowhere near as much as a lot of teams in the league - the board have refused to go full time. However the board are 'very pleased' with my management of the team and I've got a 100% full bar for philosophy's and none of my bars are below 50% so it's not all bad just got to put a decent run of results together 

That sounds pretty realistic to me  Stockport would struggle in the National league as a part time outfit, but at least the board is being realistic in their expectations

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4 hours ago, Tony Wright 747 said:

That sounds pretty realistic to me  Stockport would struggle in the National league as a part time outfit, but at least the board is being realistic in their expectations

In real life Stockport struggle as a team in the Conference North (I have watched enough of them over the last few years, great stadium to visit). It sounds like a case of over achievement which is often followed by a season or two of struggle. If the board are happy, then keep on plugging away. Hopefully you can keep them up and start to improve the squad.

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Im in my third season with concord rangers (conference south). i finished 13th followed by 10th and this season im hovering around the play offs. i dread to think how long its going to take me to get out of this league

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I'm playing as Woking. Second season in, still part time. Lost in play off semi finals first season. 3rd at moment, 3 points off top. This is the most fun I've had playing FM. Loving the game. Had a decent cup run and drew 0-0 with West Brom and with them only beating me 3-2 after extra time. If we held our nerve we could have won that game. 

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I don't think its hard, I overachieved first season and while I am still doing well in the second I have hit some bad patches so I went out in the 6th round of a cup I won the first season and barring a minor miracle I won't finish as high up the table and won't qualify for Europe through league this season and will have to enter it early thanks to my amazing fluke EFL cup win (was in really bad form going in against overwhelming odds and snuck it 1-0 by being defensive and putting big guys on the pitch and praying for corners.)

So yes it can be difficult and I feared losing my job at one point my league form was so bad but a success in a cup and a good European run saved me but I wouldn't say it a difficult game it just depends on your circumstances, lower leagues where resources are scarce can be incredibly tough but if you have more money its a bit easier you just have to manage expectations and if you fail you tend to think well I spent X amount of money had a great team and failed what did I do wrong whereas lower league you think well I got no money and inherited an awful team what did they expect me to do its the boards fault. 

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48 minutes ago, bucket said:

I'm playing as Woking. Second season in, still part time. Lost in play off semi finals first season. 3rd at moment, 3 points off top. This is the most fun I've had playing FM. Loving the game. Had a decent cup run and drew 0-0 with West Brom and with them only beating me 3-2 after extra time. If we held our nerve we could have won that game. 

up the cards. are Saraiva and Ugwu as good as in real life? ive not started my long term save yet.. was going to go with Crewe ... but as a Woking fan I guess I should go with them.

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Ugwu is quality mate. No lie. Goal machine, he plays alongside Dayle Southwell (on loan from wycombe) or Chike Kandi - again another good striker. 

Fabio didn't play much for me. So couldn't say. But a push for promotion first season shouldn't be out the question. 

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People saying its easy. Ok, try this. Start with Sunday League reputation and the lowest badge. Now lets see how 'easy' it is. 

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1 hour ago, Preveza said:

People saying its easy. Ok, try this. Start with Sunday League reputation and the lowest badge. Now lets see how 'easy' it is. 

Very true. Can't get any consistency from my Stirling team.

It's also going to matter how realistically you play the game. Scouting is very different in FM17, and it is taking me ages to fully divulge the stats of players I am scouting. I am therefore having to gamble on players to bring in to my club. I got lucky with a central defender, but many of the trialists I have signed have been incredibly poor.

 

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13 hours ago, anagain said:

Very true. Can't get any consistency from my Stirling team.

It's also going to matter how realistically you play the game. Scouting is very different in FM17, and it is taking me ages to fully divulge the stats of players I am scouting. I am therefore having to gamble on players to bring in to my club. I got lucky with a central defender, but many of the trialists I have signed have been incredibly poor.

 

Yep spot on. I have taken a few risks in bringing in some players also. But i love that feeling though. Its a gamble in real life at times also

 

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On 12/1/2016 at 05:22, bucket said:

I'm playing as Woking. Second season in, still part time. Lost in play off semi finals first season. 3rd at moment, 3 points off top. This is the most fun I've had playing FM. Loving the game. Had a decent cup run and drew 0-0 with West Brom and with them only beating me 3-2 after extra time. If we held our nerve we could have won that game. 

I moved to Woking in 2017, when they were dying in the bottom of the Vanarama National and sacked their manager.  Good god, that team is terrible.

Edited by suncrush

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i have found it fairly straight forward but then i am playing with a top team so probably best to discount my opinion. 

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2 hours ago, suncrush said:

I moved to Woking in 2017, when they were dying in the bottom of the Vanarama National and sacked their manager.  Good god, that team is terrible.

Must show how good a manager I am then??? 

I started on Semi professional experience (local level) with no coaching badges. Just studying for the National B now (finally!)

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14 minutes ago, bucket said:

Must show how good a manager I am then??? 

I started on Semi professional experience (local level) with no coaching badges. Just studying for the National B now (finally!)

Well, if you think Ugwu is solid, then we're playing very different universes, because he absolute pants for me.  I took over 18 games into the season, and am now 26 games in.  He has nine goals, 5 of which are from the spot.  In my time, he has 2, both from PK's.

 

I've actually brought in a 17-yo regen on loan and benched his can't-score butt for the next game.

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3 hours ago, suncrush said:

Well, if you think Ugwu is solid, then we're playing very different universes, because he absolute pants for me.  I took over 18 games into the season, and am now 26 games in.  He has nine goals, 5 of which are from the spot.  In my time, he has 2, both from PK's.

 

I've actually brought in a 17-yo regen on loan and benched his can't-score butt for the next game.

Play him as a target man with someone else up top with him. I'll post some pics later. 

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5 hours ago, bucket said:

Play him as a target man with someone else up top with him. I'll post some pics later. 

I have been, but yeah, post your tactic

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He heard me talking crap about him, so  he got 2 goals, 2 assists and a key pass in a 5-1 demolition of 4th-place Chester away. 

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5 hours ago, suncrush said:

He heard me talking crap about him, so  he got 2 goals, 2 assists and a key pass in a 5-1 demolition of 4th-place Chester away. 

?

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I play with Deportes Valdivia from Primera B of Chile... I never win. :D

 

 

Dep.valdivia.png

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On 01/12/2016 at 11:09, carlmiles1879 said:

I don't think its hard, I overachieved first season and while I am still doing well in the second I have hit some bad patches so I went out in the 6th round of a cup I won the first season and barring a minor miracle I won't finish as high up the table and won't qualify for Europe through league this season and will have to enter it early thanks to my amazing fluke EFL cup win (was in really bad form going in against overwhelming odds and snuck it 1-0 by being defensive and putting big guys on the pitch and praying for corners.)

So yes it can be difficult and I feared losing my job at one point my league form was so bad but a success in a cup and a good European run saved me but I wouldn't say it a difficult game it just depends on your circumstances, lower leagues where resources are scarce can be incredibly tough but if you have more money its a bit easier you just have to manage expectations and if you fail you tend to think well I spent X amount of money had a great team and failed what did I do wrong whereas lower league you think well I got no money and inherited an awful team what did they expect me to do its the boards fault. 

 

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Sorry. Thats what i done with Harrogate. Sunday League Footballer

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On 03/12/2016 at 01:22, suncrush said:

He heard me talking crap about him, so  he got 2 goals, 2 assists and a key pass in a 5-1 demolition of 4th-place Chester away. 

There you go,

Tactics.png

Ugwu.png

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On 1/12/2016 at 14:19, Preveza said:

People saying its easy. Ok, try this. Start with Sunday League reputation and the lowest badge. Now lets see how 'easy' it is. 

Yes, it's it. If you start with a big reputation, specially if you manage a big team, you have more successful chants.

Anyway it depends on how much attention you do to all the details of the game. It's not enough to put players on the pitch to win.

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My opinion:

It´s always the same, depends on your own style of playing. If you go in detail, maybe it is easier.

This year i startet with Werston-super-Mare/Sunday League/National C Coaching licence. Promoted via playoffs, after 3 yrs in National the same, now in the 5th year in L2. Mo money, mostly players without contracts.

In FM 17 i am following strict the tipps of my Co and the tactical coach, that give me much success. Really.

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I agree so much. I've tried so many saves with my everton, playing all sorts of alternative tactics and none of them ever seem to work. I've just been on a ridiculous run of losing games and just playing boro at home now, absolutely battered them and yet still lost 2-1. I just laughed. I had about 15 shots on target to their 3, 3 clear cut chances to their 1, yet I somehow lose. I got a pen to make it 1-0, immediately after they went and scored. I went attacking in 85th minute, immediately after, they scored. It just seems ridiculously, dare i say it, scripted. I wouldn't bemoan it so much had I had at least one decent Everton save, but it just seems that as it is becoming even more intricate silly little changes are becoming more and more important, and thus it's losing it's lure. I've had one decent save on FM17 from about 20, that with Liverpool, but again I battered everyone in the first season comingg 3rd, then 10 game sinto the second and I haven't won a game...?! I appreciate there is a large element of realism but unfortunately it seems the way the game is structured so much onus is being placed on perfection that it is making it somewhat unplayable.

Edited by toffeemax

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Following on from my earlier post on my time at concord rangers. I managed to get promoted season 3 via the play offs after finishing 3rd Losing out on 2nd on goal difference to Wealdstone. Managed to beat  recently relegated bromley in the final with the help  of the seeding rules giving me home advantage, i spent the season playing fairly negative 4-1-4-1Counter away from home or against tougher opposition and a 4-1-2-3 against the lesser teams. Really worked a treat. My point being although the struggle has been long its making the rewards all the more sweeter. Heres to a season of getting slaughtered in the conference national 

 

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12 hours ago, toffeemax said:

I agree so much. I've tried so many saves with my everton, playing all sorts of alternative tactics and none of them ever seem to work. I've just been on a ridiculous run of losing games and just playing boro at home now, absolutely battered them and yet still lost 2-1. I just laughed. I had about 15 shots on target to their 3, 3 clear cut chances to their 1, yet I somehow lose. I got a pen to make it 1-0, immediately after they went and scored. I went attacking in 85th minute, immediately after, they scored. It just seems ridiculously, dare i say it, scripted. I wouldn't bemoan it so much had I had at least one decent Everton save, but it just seems that as it is becoming even more intricate silly little changes are becoming more and more important, and thus it's losing it's lure. I've had one decent save on FM17 from about 20, that with Liverpool, but again I battered everyone in the first season comingg 3rd, then 10 game sinto the second and I haven't won a game...?! I appreciate there is a large element of realism but unfortunately it seems the way the game is structured so much onus is being placed on perfection that it is making it somewhat unplayable.

 

Let's break this down...

The important stats here: 3-1 ccc...  3-1 isn't that dominant really, so not a stretch that you lost imo..

Why? ...  when they pegged it back to 1-1, as the underdog, it would be natural for them to have gone counterattacking... and with you going attacking, it plays right into their gameplan...

makes sense to me.

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2 hours ago, Welshace said:

 

Let's break this down...

The important stats here: 3-1 ccc...  3-1 isn't that dominant really, so not a stretch that you lost imo..


The important stat is the goals. :-P CCC is by far the single worst stat in the game. Even if you are one of those who confuse having more shots and more possession with "dominating" and expect the game to be based stats, rather than play. Why is that? It's highly subjective, how SI define it is entirelly up to them, and can change from release to release // i.e. ongoing debates about whether header finishes should be included, which they aren't, even if the header is applied from point blank range and the goal is empty. It is unreliable, as rather than human eyes assessing such things subjectively as in actually analysis, an algorithms weights a couple of factors (distance to next defenders near, angle of shot, etc.) and if the sum of it goes beyond a certain threshhold, the shot is flagged as clear cut. The name is questionably anyhow, and average expectations aren't outlined anywhere. It is a subjective stat defined by SI, but what it is meant to assess isn't made available anywhere. I.e. the many guys who are of the opinion that those should be converted at like 8 out 10 rates, which is basically at penalty rates, when from open play there is nothing outside of tap-ins etc. that is near that anywhere (or should be). I.e. Opta CCCs being converted in 1 in 3 to 1 in 5 rates.

More importantly, the build-up is never considered. Therefore the considerably amount of instances against rigid deepish defenses that are never pulled anywhere and block like 2/3 of those supposedly "CCCs" with ease, vs. attacks on a breakaway or off a through ball behind actually aggressive lines with the defenders all retreating in headless chicken mode desperate to run back and mark all the forward surging opponents not resulting in a "CCC" simply because the algorithm doesn't consider that and thus doesn't flag it based on that by the time of the actually shot, the forward has several defenders near (even if they couldn't quite all catch up with his).

Having more shots+dominating possession isn't dominating. This is download tactic logics oft found in the Workshops, which can proactively make it hard for thousands of players to get to grips with quitei simple a game. All based on stats, little on the actually play. Defensive tactics in the game aim to let you dominate these stats happily. Relying purely on match stats lacks any kind of context on top, as argued before too. Still what would be far better a stat and telling one than the dreaded CCC was if shots were actually broken down where they come from, on top of the long shots/off target stuff. I know zero players that regularly have this where this isn't a problem for them, and unlike Spurs here, have the bulk of their crap from set piece play as every positionally measure they take makes the defenders clear, deflect or tackle (foul) easily time and time again as they aren't pulled anywhere. Sounds like a broken record, but it's true. https://www.whoscored.com/Matches/1080652/MatchReport The only possible statistically number to go by is the number of set pieces piling up. Ironically, despite there being so much blanket following of a few key stats, nobody seems to have issues or react to whenever they have like 15-25 (up to 30) corners a match regularly, which basically means a corner every two to three minutes of "actual" playing time in the ME likewise. That's not football. That's corner kick ball. That is still isn't reliable too though, as additional corners can be the result of a keeper/denfder being additionally stretched. More oftenly than not, from experience it isn't. And either way, that's just the corners. Uploaded pkms or me trying to copy what's done their tactically I find those matches borderline unwatchable.

 

Edited by Svenc

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I played Championship Manager and Football Manager up until 2012 and then didn't play again until this year.

FM17 is definitely harder than any earlier versions I have played but that is definitely for the better. I enjoy the little intricacies that are required to improve a team and the new scouting approach seems a lot more realistic to me.

Admittedly I have started with whatever the default coaching badges and playing level is set at so am probably not making it too hard on myself.

Started as Leeds and got to play-offs 1st season but lost on penalties.

Second season and got to the play off final and lost 1-0 to a late goal.

3rd season rebuilding the team again.

Big congratulations to SI for making a game that has got me hooked again.

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First two seasons with Norwich were pretty easy (albeit with a couple of hairy slumps in form): Won the Championship by a nose, then finished fourth in my EPL promotion season.

In the third season, we're doing well in the CL (first in our group with two games left, and we beat PSG at home), but we've been mired in a league relegation battle since the start of the season (because we opened with Liverpool away, champions Arsenal at home, Chelsea away, and then Tottenham and Man City also in the first seven weeks or so). Still only in 16th in late November, despite being predicted to finish mid-table.

This is usually the point at which I start to pull away from the AI in previous seasons and they never truly compete again, so maybe the long-term team-building has improved. Certainly the tactical game is as competitive as it's ever been.

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On 06/12/2016 at 11:24, Welshace said:

 

Let's break this down...

The important stats here: 3-1 ccc...  3-1 isn't that dominant really, so not a stretch that you lost imo..

Why? ...  when they pegged it back to 1-1, as the underdog, it would be natural for them to have gone counterattacking... and with you going attacking, it plays right into their gameplan...

makes sense to me.

You've focused on the one brief example and not the whole post there. Also did not refer to the fact that despite having control almost all game, as soon as I scored a pen they went and scored straight away after. I got sacked in the end on that save, surprisingly after I won a game? Also had a board meeting about performances, again, after I had won a game?! Seemed very odd, lots of other opportunities to do such things after losing a few games, again, not really the done thing I can think of in real life.

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after spending 5 years or so living in Peru I hadn't had he latest version for a while and I do enjoy the new one so much more is incorporated and yes it is a bit more difficult but that what makes it fun.  

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On ‎30‎/‎11‎/‎2016 at 21:49, Jcl0303 said:

I skipped the first season and took charge of Stockport county (who have just been promoted to the national league) but with a decent budget , which I have made good use of. I'm only 6or 7 games into the season only 1 win very unconvincing 2-1 home win over Maidstone Utd. It's just really frustrating because I know how to play the game. Also another thing is we are part time so not training nowhere near as much as a lot of teams in the league - the board have refused to go full time. However the board are 'very pleased' with my management of the team and I've got a 100% full bar for philosophy's and none of my bars are below 50% so it's not all bad just got to put a decent run of results together 

You say you know how to play the game but every new game is different. For me at least, there's always a learning curve before I start to understand how a new game works. All I can say is be patient or maybe have a break if you're not enjoying it as it doesn't make sense to play it if it's annoying you.

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It is hard and frustrating. I have got QPR to top of Championship, dropped down to 2nd / 3rd - uuurrrrggghh, but transfers are the worse - no one wants to come to QPR !!!.

I sorted out my players, found the best tactic & have done well with the existing players ; but when I say I have tried to buy / loan top / pretty top players to improve - no takers.

I managed to get Poyet & Cavenghi on frees & V Cerny on loan - but that is it , oh & in Jan Allef who cant play needs a WP !!!.

Is it my reputation?, I wanted a ST for the prem push

any help pls?

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On 11/30/2016 at 14:15, Jcl0303 said:

Is it me or does anyone else think football manager 17 is the hardest fm ever ? 

It seems like if you are managing a team expected to be in a relegation battle, when you play against a team who are big favourites to beat you , no matter what you do, it is a matter of by how many goals they beat you , and the games you do win are home games against teams below you or teams who have already lost about 6 in a row and are in very bad form. Fm 15 was the best game I thought , you could take any team you wanted and achieve things as long as you are half decent at fm and you know what you're doing. Don't want it to sound like I'm having a moan because I'm not. Just wondered if anyone else shares my opinion that the game has become a little bit repetitive. Ps I'm not new to the game been playing it for years and just can't manage to get on with this years 

Same here. I always start managing with a League 2 team. I cannot for the life of me get even a draw, much less a win. I too have been playing for quite a few years, 8 I think, so I don't consider myself a novice...nor an expert, but I certainly do much better in years past. Nothing seems to be working for me. I'm managing Blackpool at the moment (who were predicted to finish 3rd) and I'm stuck at the bottom of the table. Oh well, hope springs eternal.

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I'm sure I saw the same comments about last years game, it would appear that as the game becomes more complex and nearer reality, you have to put more time in to achieve success. I think the days are gone when you could just set a tactic at the start of the season and just watch the game on key highlights or commentary which is no bad thing

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On 12/12/2016 at 18:03, Tony Wright 747 said:

I'm sure I saw the same comments about last years game, it would appear that as the game becomes more complex and nearer reality, you have to put more time in to achieve success. I think the days are gone when you could just set a tactic at the start of the season and just watch the game on key highlights or commentary which is no bad thing

If that continues as a trend soon each day in the game will take as long as a day in real life!!

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Yeah, my progress through time has been much slower this year.  It's fine for now, but I got kids.  I'm not going to get through decades of playtime at this rate.  ;)

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4 hours ago, toffeemax said:

If that continues as a trend soon each day in the game will take as long as a day in real life!!

I dont think it will reach that stage, but it is a simulation, if you play Flight Simulator which is pretty close to reality you have to simulate the whole flight.  If you want to get to as close to reality as possible you have to put in the time.  If anyone is not willing to do that then maybe they should look at more basic management games online.

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It does seem a bit more difficult this year. It feels like teams find out your tactic quicker and complaceny also seems to creep in sooner during a good run. I'm enjoying the challenge though

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No. FM17 is easier than FM16 which was slightly easier than FM15.    FM15 definitely was a quite hard version to crack.

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On 14/12/2016 at 16:36, suncrush said:

Yeah, my progress through time has been much slower this year.  It's fine for now, but I got kids.  I'm not going to get through decades of playtime at this rate.  ;)

Haha. Kids always get in the way of a good day/evening play. I'm in the same boat, was galloping along with my Woking career, but hardly played in last 2 weeks due to kids here, kids there, Christmas events! 

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On 12/17/2016 at 02:18, bucket said:

Haha. Kids always get in the way of a good day/evening play. I'm in the same boat, was galloping along with my Woking career, but hardly played in last 2 weeks due to kids here, kids there, Christmas events! 

You know how there's people who love these obscure teams because they managed them in FM and fell in love?

 

Well, this year, I got hired by Woking, grew tired of their board in about a second, and I now hate them in real life for it.

Edited by suncrush

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On 11/30/2016 at 20:15, Jcl0303 said:

Is it me or does anyone else think football manager 17 is the hardest fm ever ? 

It seems like if you are managing a team expected to be in a relegation battle, when you play against a team who are big favourites to beat you , no matter what you do, it is a matter of by how many goals they beat you , and the games you do win are home games against teams below you or teams who have already lost about 6 in a row and are in very bad form. Fm 15 was the best game I thought , you could take any team you wanted and achieve things as long as you are half decent at fm and you know what you're doing. Don't want it to sound like I'm having a moan because I'm not. Just wondered if anyone else shares my opinion that the game has become a little bit repetitive. Ps I'm not new to the game been playing it for years and just can't manage to get on with this years 

I've actually found the games against the bigger teams the easiest and have managed to take Crystal Palace to three cup finals in 3 seasons. I have also managed to take them into Europe twice, once by winning the league cup and once by finishing fifth, but I do have to agree in part with your point about FM15 as FM16 was the worst FM I have ever played and contained so many basic flaws which were never fixed, as a result of this i found myself returning to FM15.

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On 12/5/2016 at 22:46, toffeemax said:

I agree so much. I've tried so many saves with my everton, playing all sorts of alternative tactics and none of them ever seem to work. I've just been on a ridiculous run of losing games and just playing boro at home now, absolutely battered them and yet still lost 2-1. I just laughed. I had about 15 shots on target to their 3, 3 clear cut chances to their 1, yet I somehow lose. I got a pen to make it 1-0, immediately after they went and scored. I went attacking in 85th minute, immediately after, they scored. It just seems ridiculously, dare i say it, scripted. I wouldn't bemoan it so much had I had at least one decent Everton save, but it just seems that as it is becoming even more intricate silly little changes are becoming more and more important, and thus it's losing it's lure. I've had one decent save on FM17 from about 20, that with Liverpool, but again I battered everyone in the first season comingg 3rd, then 10 game sinto the second and I haven't won a game...?! I appreciate there is a large element of realism but unfortunately it seems the way the game is structured so much onus is being placed on perfection that it is making it somewhat unplayable.

I hate to say it but it IS your tactics that make the game so difficult.

I am tactically inept, and I'm not ashamed to admit that. I just don't understand FM tactics at all and cannot get a decent tactical system working. FM17 has been driving me insane as I start new game after new game... so recently in desperation I downloaded a few from here and am currently using Knap's asymmetrical system. I won the Confederations Cup and World Cup with Germany and after a brief spell at Athletic Bilbao I took over Schalke 04 where I sauntered to the Bundesliga title in my first season with a pretty average squad. Second season and we are already top and unbeaten, dominated Real Madrid at their place in the Champions League, I know we are going to win the league again... all because the tactics are so solid. God I wish I created them myself.

In your defence, I think the game has a very odd way of translating poor/weak tactics back to the player. What I've noticed since using such a good tactical system is there are far less silly things going on in-game, less daft GK errors, own goals, bizarre decisions by players... I genuinely questioned the trustworthiness of the game for a long time (until changing tactics) because the things my players were doing was nothing short of utterly stupid.  Not once in my recent title-winning season did I stop and say "WHY would any player do that??" (which was a very common question before), and the only change I've made to how I play is stopped using my own crap tactics.

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