Damian_Rusling Posted November 30, 2016 Share Posted November 30, 2016 Hi All, I am finding that I am dominating games possesion wise (typically 62 to 38) and on chances (typically 17 shots 7 on target v 4 and 2). I am struggling to convert my chances though. I am watching games in extended mode and I seem to miss a wide variety of chances. long shots, one on ones, headers from crosses, free kicks etc. I play 4-2-3-1 with short passing, early crossing and high tempo. Any advice ? I have tried rotating my strikers and have them all on finishing training. Help !!!! thanks Damian Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
permanentquandary Posted November 30, 2016 Share Posted November 30, 2016 Post a screenshot and let's see what seems to be the trouble. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liamgannon Posted November 30, 2016 Share Posted November 30, 2016 From the little bit of info you posted i'd take a guess at you're playing at too high a tempo try lowering it so your attackers aren't rushing their chances Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Damian_Rusling Posted November 30, 2016 Author Share Posted November 30, 2016 Thanks for the advice. I will lower the tempo and give "work ball into box" a go. From looking at my shooting stats a lot of them seem to be from outside the box. I seem to get a lot of free kicks at the ednge of the box that a struggle to score from too.... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Overmars Posted November 30, 2016 Share Posted November 30, 2016 Form can impact your tactical efficacy. The same tactic might work wonders if/when you find some excellent form. Your opponents might also be playing very conservatively against you, conceding a bunch of harmless shots and low quality "scoring chances" that look good statistically but translate to few goals. What are your team's strengths? Do those early crosses ever work for you? Is that the best way to create chances for your forwards, or do they play better as facilitators and through ball outlets? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
westy8chimp Posted November 30, 2016 Share Posted November 30, 2016 52 minutes ago, Damian_Rusling said: Thanks for the advice. I will lower the tempo and give "work ball into box" a go. From looking at my shooting stats a lot of them seem to be from outside the box. I seem to get a lot of free kicks at the ednge of the box that a struggle to score from too.... I use PI to tell every player to shoot less... even my CF ... combined with lower tempo and shorter passing and either an AMC or DLF with hold up the ball instructions... this tends to create fewer, but better chances. since doing this my shots on target % is drastically increased... and sits around the 10-15 out of 20-25 per game mark ... whereas before I might be having 30-35 shots but only 5-10 on target. not to say that's the correct way or only way to achieve more goals from dominance... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bigpapa42 Posted November 30, 2016 Share Posted November 30, 2016 What can some times happen when you are dominating the ball is that you are compressing the opponent into their own half and right into their own penalty area. You are controlling the game, but a compact and determined opposition can be difficult to break down. If you aren't getting a lot of good chances inside the box, it might be because you aren't getting real penetration through that bunched up opposition. Players don't have passing lanes and aren't making dangerous runs because space is so compressed, so you end up with mediocre opportunities or pops from distance. The tempo and Work Ball Into Box are worth trying. But so can dropping the mentality a level or two. It may seem counter-intuitive that you can be more successful by being less attacking, but it can draw the opposition out. If they aren't compressed deep into their own half, there are more passing lanes for your to make incisive passes and more space to make penetrating runs. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
herne79 Posted November 30, 2016 Share Posted November 30, 2016 Everything is guess work unless you tell us how you are set up. https://community.sigames.com/topic/264734-asking-for-help-please-read-this/ Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Damian_Rusling Posted November 30, 2016 Author Share Posted November 30, 2016 18 minutes ago, herne79 said: Everything is guess work unless you tell us how you are set up. https://community.sigames.com/topic/264734-asking-for-help-please-read-this/ Not able to upload screenshots as I play on ipad and post on here on PC. I play as Celtic and am doing ok. Have won title first two seasons, one league cup and one Europa League. Season 3 is struggle though. Was down in 5th but back upto 2nd now. I am playing ok just not converting enough chances. In the first two seasons I was playing the following. Mixed passing, retain possesions and overlaps. My Defence is slightly deeper (to counter long balls) and I play the ball out of defence to the flanks. I recently changed to short passing, hight tempo and early crosses in an effor to improve my season 3 form. From what I can gather you need to tweak your settings every season or so as the AI "learns" how to counter your tactics. i play FB (support) CH (Def) CH (Stopper) FB (support) CM (DLP Def) CM (Def) W (sup) AP (A) IF (S) CF (A) Short passing, high tempo, early crosses. From what I have taken from the replies to this forum and from searching other forums. I need to make the following changes 1) change to lower tempo 2) change my LB to WB S or A 3) Edit the PI of my midfielders to shoot less often. 4) Possibly try work ball into box. I will give this a go and report back. What are peoples view of mixed passing v short ? When I play short I have over 60 % possesion which is what i want but will my mplayers stil play that long defence spolitting pass if it is on ? in terms of the options of overlap, early crosses or work ball into box I feel my players should be able to play all 3. If I leave these unselected do they just decide what is the most approriate ? Thanks in advance. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
westy8chimp Posted November 30, 2016 Share Posted November 30, 2016 1 hour ago, Damian_Rusling said: Not able to upload screenshots as I play on ipad and post on here on PC. I play as Celtic and am doing ok. Have won title first two seasons, one league cup and one Europa League. Season 3 is struggle though. Was down in 5th but back upto 2nd now. I am playing ok just not converting enough chances. In the first two seasons I was playing the following. Mixed passing, retain possesions and overlaps. My Defence is slightly deeper (to counter long balls) and I play the ball out of defence to the flanks. I recently changed to short passing, hight tempo and early crosses in an effor to improve my season 3 form. From what I can gather you need to tweak your settings every season or so as the AI "learns" how to counter your tactics. i play FB (support) CH (Def) CH (Stopper) FB (support) CM (DLP Def) CM (Def) W (sup) AP (A) IF (S) CF (A) Short passing, high tempo, early crosses. From what I have taken from the replies to this forum and from searching other forums. I need to make the following changes 1) change to lower tempo 2) change my LB to WB S or A 3) Edit the PI of my midfielders to shoot less often. 4) Possibly try work ball into box. I will give this a go and report back. What are peoples view of mixed passing v short ? When I play short I have over 60 % possesion which is what i want but will my mplayers stil play that long defence spolitting pass if it is on ? in terms of the options of overlap, early crosses or work ball into box I feel my players should be able to play all 3. If I leave these unselected do they just decide what is the most approriate ? Thanks in advance. even with short passing your AP will attempt 'more risky' passing as that is fixed PI - so it doesn't limit your team to just short passes. Also check PPM of your players.. some may have 'attempts long passes' or 'defence splitting passes' or 'swtiches ball to other flank' it's more the case that with shorter passing there are more likely to be easier/more options to pass... so less likelihood of the player on the ball resulting to a long shot rather than a pass. Your cms both on defend duty may be isolating your attack leading to them being easy to mark/press and again resulting in long shots. you may want a cm(a) or RPM or BBM instead of one of the current roles. More bodies in final third means more passing options and also less defenders per attacker so in theory more time for an accurate shot who is the most common culprit of the shots off target? is it the IF (s) taking lots of wild long shots? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Damian_Rusling Posted December 1, 2016 Author Share Posted December 1, 2016 Ok. I made the following changes to short passing tactic. Lower tempo Work ball into box. LB from FB to WB RW from Sup to Att CF from Att to Sup PI of midfield set to shoot less. CM to RP S i have to say its worked brilliantly so far. Aberdeen A (3-0) ICT H (1-1) St J A (0-0) Hibs A (2-0) Ran H (2-0) Mother A (3-0) So 4 wins 2 draws and only 1 goal conceded. The tactic is working out as planned. My midfield work the ball up to the AM at the edge of the box who is sliding lovely passes through to the onrushing IF, W and CF. Most of the chances I am now creating are clear cut shots from in side the box as opposed to specultaive shots from distance. I will stick with this for the remaonder of the season. I guiess the big test will come in the Europa League knock out rounds... Thanks for all the advise so far. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
westy8chimp Posted December 1, 2016 Share Posted December 1, 2016 40 minutes ago, Damian_Rusling said: Ok. I made the following changes to short passing tactic. Lower tempo Work ball into box. LB from FB to WB RW from Sup to Att CF from Att to Sup PI of midfield set to shoot less. CM to RP S i have to say its worked brilliantly so far. Aberdeen A (3-0) ICT H (1-1) St J A (0-0) Hibs A (2-0) Ran H (2-0) Mother A (3-0) So 4 wins 2 draws and only 1 goal conceded. The tactic is working out as planned. My midfield work the ball up to the AM at the edge of the box who is sliding lovely passes through to the onrushing IF, W and CF. Most of the chances I am now creating are clear cut shots from in side the box as opposed to specultaive shots from distance. I will stick with this for the remaonder of the season. I guiess the big test will come in the Europa League knock out rounds... Thanks for all the advise so far. excellent - one thing to be aware of, as it happens to me constantly and already seems a pattern in your results... is you will win the hard games, as in your case - (away to Aberdeen, motherwell, home to rangers) - but struggle in the so called 'easier' games. (home to ICT) .. this is because the short game can struggle against a packed defence on defensive/counter mentality. I'm not a perfectionist so don't change my tactic too much... But if you do want to take a more careful, professional approach... you need to build a second tactic to cope with those teams. something higher tempo, more direct and wider ... to upset their defensive rhythm. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Damian_Rusling Posted December 1, 2016 Author Share Posted December 1, 2016 Thanks Westy. I will create a Plan B tactic that I cam switch to at HT if I am not breaking teams down. I will go for higher tempo, mixed passing and wide. If I go for a wide tactic should I still have "work ball into box" or should I switch to early crosses or overlap ? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
westy8chimp Posted December 1, 2016 Share Posted December 1, 2016 42 minutes ago, Damian_Rusling said: Thanks Westy. I will create a Plan B tactic that I cam switch to at HT if I am not breaking teams down. I will go for higher tempo, mixed passing and wide. If I go for a wide tactic should I still have "work ball into box" or should I switch to early crosses or overlap ? im yet to master a more direct tactic so I don't know... as I say I have given up bothering to amend my tactic when playing home to a defensive team... I accept the odd defeat. if I was going to ... id probably drop all TIs for crossing/working ball... simply because in theory you want a broad variety of attacks to break down the defensive block... pull them out wide then hit them through the middle... if they block the middle you want to overload out wide and get crosses in. work into the box probably doesn't go hand in hand with a direct approach... as you want to bypass the build up ... preventing them from assuming their defensive positions. others suggest going to counter and making them come out.. but whilst I agree in theory... ive yet to see a defensive opponent change style just because ive also gone defensive... and thus ends in a boring stalemate. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Hook Posted December 1, 2016 Share Posted December 1, 2016 5 hours ago, westy8chimp said: others suggest going to counter and making them come out.. but whilst I agree in theory... ive yet to see a defensive opponent change style just because ive also gone defensive... and thus ends in a boring stalemate. They won't change strategy, so expecting that to happen is generally pointless. What *will* happen often, however, is that they will come forward when you give them space. Yes, they remain with a low block, and yes they retain a low tolerance for risk, and a tight defensive structure, but by giving them space you will stretch them. It is often not dramatic, but it works. I have done it many, many times, especially in home matches where the opposition has shut up shop. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Damian_Rusling Posted December 2, 2016 Author Share Posted December 2, 2016 Really having a lot of success with the changes suggested. Won 8 on the trot with only 1 goal conceded. Short Passing, low tempo, work ball into box and setting the PI's of my mid to shoot less often seems to be the way to go. Only on one occiasion did I have to change to wide, mixed passing and higher tempo when it was 0-0 with 30 mins to go. I went down to 10 men but managed to score a last minute header from a cross from a fullback !!! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
westy8chimp Posted December 6, 2016 Share Posted December 6, 2016 On 01/12/2016 at 16:44, Dr. Hook said: They won't change strategy, so expecting that to happen is generally pointless. What *will* happen often, however, is that they will come forward when you give them space. Yes, they remain with a low block, and yes they retain a low tolerance for risk, and a tight defensive structure, but by giving them space you will stretch them. It is often not dramatic, but it works. I have done it many, many times, especially in home matches where the opposition has shut up shop. yes I agreed in theory ... just more so that I've not volume tested... so cannot say I've seen it happen. And to critique myself I oft wait until I'm a goal down ... which makes the containing team even harder to manipulate. But an exaggerated diagrammatic explanation of the Plan Bs I was referring to is attached... not a bible.. just a quick way of showing how you can go with either more aggression or much less aggression ... and how to think more liberally rather than "I must play attacking vs bad teams and defensive vs good teams" as can be a common thought for casual FM players Assuming Plan A is the patient slow accurate build up as previously discussed in this topic. and then Plan B option 1 is your overload (particularly effective also in games where opposition has a red card I turned a cup semi final round from 2-0 down at home to Spurs with Derby, into a 4-2 win).... option 2 the careful 'draw them out' (to use if opposition has a low mentality [contain/defend] and you cannot break them down) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Hook Posted December 6, 2016 Share Posted December 6, 2016 I would even go so far as to say here that for your Plan B option 2, you don't even really need to try to lure them out so much as to trigger a counter. You just create for yourself some extra space to work. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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