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Broken Promises

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12 minutes ago, Barside said:

IMO you're right, the text example you've given is not a promise on your part but more a chalenge to the player to improve. If I wanted to be picky if te players agrees with your statement then essentially they have promised to improve & guide the club to Champions League qualifictaion.

Exactly.

2 minutes ago, HUNT3R said:

The promise is fine, as long as the text is clear enough. If the text string wasn't clear enough, report it.

Consider this me reporting it. It's not a bug per se, so I don't know where else I would put it.

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1 minute ago, Weston said:

Exactly.

Consider this me reporting it. It's not a bug per se, so I don't know where else I would put it.

This isn't the bugs forum. It's probably best under Other Gameplay issues, as the interactions aren't clear enough that the player needs to leave now and that we're not talking about maybe CL qualification somewhere in the distant future, but rather now.

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As HUNT3R says the place to report is the bugs forum, I'd also be inclined to keep a look out for opportunities to interact with the player later in the season to see how any future conversations link back to the one you've just had, especially if the player's performances are not matching his own ambitions to play in the Champions League.

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Weston -- an excellent topic. Mille Grazie.

Let me ask, as you are managing Parma Calcio 1913, a club that was indeed in tatters in 2004 and 2005 (not all that long ago).

Please share with us here what year you are now managing Parma  and when (how recently) did this player who longs for UEFA Champs. League participation sign a contract for your club?  At what age was he when he did (or has since extended his contract)?  And how old is he now?

I think these things matter if we are going to talk even a smidgeon of realism. 

After all, if I follow your very good inputs to this thread, you have only just taken Parma from Serie B into Serie A, correct?

We'll have a better picture of this when you share the particulars, but my hunch is you have not been in Serie A that long and this player was part of your setup whilst still slogging it out in Serie B, yes?  I ask these things because my issue for this player (and overall SI FM game realism) is that signing on to Parma Calcio is not like signing on to Valencia FC, AFC Fiorentina, AS Monaco, Schalke 04, Liverpool FC or perhaps a SC Braga  where players, staff, fans, and a board can have a reasonable expectation of European continental competition in the coming season(s).  If a player (and his agent)  thinks he's really that sort of caliber, why did he sign with a club that hasn't been part of the CL or EL for nearly two decades?   Caveat:  Those players like a German Julian Weigl who was at 1860 Munich not all that long ago and have rocketed to top flight club and national team football.  Also those German GKs like Trapp, Zlieler, Ter Stegen and maybe soon Horn.  Yes, there are indeed just those sorts of young highflying players (or the older, late big bloomer Jaime Vardy types)  and your Parma chap might be one of them.

Does your irritated Parma player have a national cap to his name at the time of making his CL wish known?  And what's his player character type?  Thanks.

Just let us know a few of the particulars on this, Weston, and we can get a better picture of whether or not a player at this stage of where you are with Parma ought to even be broaching this subject with his manager.  Maybe you have nicknamed this Italian? chap your own "Payet?" :)  Overall, you started a great topic here while providing real game situations that are, frankly, unnecessary and a bit daft for us as players to have to try to circumnavigate.  Thank you for that.  

Edited by zebec

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On 1/15/2017 at 00:19, zebec said:

Weston -- an excellent topic. Mille Grazie.

Let me ask, as you are managing Parma Calcio 1913, a club that was indeed in tatters in 2004 and 2005 (not all that long ago).

Please share with us here what year you are now managing Parma  and when (how recently) did this player who longs for UEFA Champs. League participation sign a contract for your club?  At what age was he when he did (or has since extended his contract)?  And how old is he now?

I think these things matter if we are going to talk even a smidgeon of realism. 

After all, if I follow your very good inputs to this thread, you have only just taken Parma from Serie B into Serie A, correct?

We'll have a better picture of this when you share the particulars, but my hunch is you have not been in Serie A that long and this player was part of your setup whilst still slogging it out in Serie B, yes?  I ask these things because my issue for this player (and overall SI FM game realism) is that signing on to Parma Calcio is not like signing on to Valencia FC, AFC Fiorentina, AS Monaco, Schalke 04, Liverpool FC or perhaps a SC Braga  where players, staff, fans, and a board can have a reasonable expectation of European continental competition in the coming season(s).  If a player (and his agent)  thinks he's really that sort of caliber, why did he sign with a club that hasn't been part of the CL or EL for nearly two decades?   Caveat:  Those players like a German Julian Weigl who was at 1860 Munich not all that long ago and have rocketed to top flight club and national team football.  Also those German GKs like Trapp, Zlieler, Ter Stegen and maybe soon Horn.  Yes, there are indeed just those sorts of young highflying players (or the older, late big bloomer Jaime Vardy types)  and your Parma chap might be one of them.

Does your irritated Parma player have a national cap to his name at the time of making his CL wish known?  And what's his player character type?  Thanks.

Just let us know a few of the particulars on this, Weston, and we can get a better picture of whether or not a player at this stage of where you are with Parma ought to even be broaching this subject with his manager.  Maybe you have nicknamed this Italian? chap your own "Payet?" :)  Overall, you started a great topic here while providing real game situations that are, frankly, unnecessary and a bit daft for us as players to have to try to circumnavigate.  Thank you for that.  

These are very good points. I have actually since moved on to Milan and this player is a 24 year old .5* reputation Brazilian signed for 17.5 million a season and a half before I took charge, with the dialogue in question happening very shortly after I took charge. We are currently in the EL.

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UPDATE: So about the player who wanted CL football; we mathematically ruled ourselves out of qualifying for the CL via the table mere days before the EL final which could've put us through, but the player and all of his allies in the squad apparently didn't realize that and got very upset at this crucial point in time. So, while they were moaning about not making the CL, their morale dipped just in time to... lose the EL final that could've sent them to the CL. :seagull:

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Immediately after posting this I get a message in my inbox saying he wants to leave for a 9th place La Liga side that... ISN'T IN ANY CONTINENTAL COMPETITION AT ALL?

He says it's because he really wants to "win trophies." At Real Sociedad. Got it.

Edited by Weston

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I'd say good riddance. Focus your energy on team players.

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10 hours ago, Weston said:

UPDATE: So about the player who wanted CL football; we mathematically ruled ourselves out of qualifying for the CL via the table mere days before the EL final which could've put us through, but the player and all of his allies in the squad apparently didn't realize that and got very upset at this crucial point in time. So, while they were moaning about not making the CL, their morale dipped just in time to... lose the EL final that could've sent them to the CL. :seagull:

Yay!  Another holdover from FM2016!

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Promised my playre we would enter talks about a new contract at the end of the season. I go to offer one, he wants a match highest earner i refuse and that is counted as a broken promise. I offered the contract entered negotiations as I said, they wante clause put it in non negotiable and talks fall apart, there is no broken promise here as I can see. I also want the option to tell the player when he comes with his accusations that I did my part found his demands to be too much for the club and he refused to negotiate them so it is on him and his agent that he didn't get his wish.

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That one has been discssed at length, the player has requested a new contract & you have failed to meet his demands so he now wnats to leave, al perfectly normal.

What is missing is the chance to put the blame back on the player either directly or via the media by stating that their demands are, in your opinion, too high.

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11 hours ago, Barside said:

That one has been discssed at length, the player has requested a new contract & you have failed to meet his demands so he now wnats to leave, al perfectly normal.

What is missing is the chance to put the blame back on the player either directly or via the media by stating that their demands are, in your opinion, too high.

But there has to be some nuanced distinction between the promise to enter reasonable contract negotiations and the promise to give in to whatever contract demands are made, much like how there should be a difference between telling a player to work hard and bring the team into continental qualification and promising the player that if you don't get him there he can leave. Ultimately it just seems like FM heightened the importance of interpersonal interaction in this year's edition without really improving or diversifying the dynamics behind them.

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1 hour ago, Weston said:

But there has to be some nuanced distinction between the promise to enter reasonable contract negotiations and the promise to give in to whatever contract demands are made, much like how there should be a difference between telling a player to work hard and bring the team into continental qualification and promising the player that if you don't get him there he can leave. Ultimately it just seems like FM heightened the importance of interpersonal interaction in this year's edition without really improving or diversifying the dynamics behind them.

That applies from the player's perspective too, though. He equally needs a reasonable negotiation rather than being told to accept and be grateful for whatever contract offer you put on the table. Unfortunately in this case you have different definitions of reasonable, which (quite correctly) is resulting in a conflict.

I'm assuming he's one of the most talented and high-reputation players at the club to be demanding that particular clause?

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On 27/11/2016 at 04:26, Weston said:

I've tried improving morale by making a point to compliment the lads after exceptionally outstanding performances, but instead they predictably get upset because they don't think they're playing well even though they clearly are. Why on Earth would you get SADDER because your boss says "good job, your form improved" when you've just scored three in a row after not scoring for THE 10 STRAIGHT MATCHES PRIOR?

I had same issue. Spent alot of money on a top young player and promised I would win the PL. Due to injuries I litterally got put to 2nd in the very last game. Now the player is destroying the teams morale. 

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This thread is a real eye opener and shows how a mechanic in the game can't replicate real negotiations. I do appreciate the dev's putting more depth to the game however I always accept contracts without promises and will remove all promises before contact negotiations.

Recently I have signed lucas romero who has a fav shirt number of 26, before starting a match I was prompted to register a shirt number but 26 was grayed out and could not give him it? I sat for a while and just accepted it and clicked auto and hoped but he didn't get 26. He is unhappy, lost trust in manager and handed in a transfer request. Seriously a number. This got me so p'd off. he got 3 month injury as soon as I clicked continue after loading and I couldn't take it. I never reload to change and outcome I always accept it but because I felt the games in built mechanics has pretty much destroyed my relationship with a player over a number. Any sensible person would say look I wasn't able to register 26 this season however next year I'll go out of my way to make sure you have it just focus on the football. 

Promises aren't a bad idea but until the game can put importance on certain promises - Not giving a player a shirt number is the same level of Broken promise as not giving playing time when you promised or to that nature.

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9 hours ago, vanderbonnar said:

This thread is a real eye opener and shows how a mechanic in the game can't replicate real negotiations. I do appreciate the dev's putting more depth to the game however I always accept contracts without promises and will remove all promises before contact negotiations.

Recently I have signed lucas romero who has a fav shirt number of 26, before starting a match I was prompted to register a shirt number but 26 was grayed out and could not give him it? I sat for a while and just accepted it and clicked auto and hoped but he didn't get 26. He is unhappy, lost trust in manager and handed in a transfer request. Seriously a number. This got me so p'd off. he got 3 month injury as soon as I clicked continue after loading and I couldn't take it. I never reload to change and outcome I always accept it but because I felt the games in built mechanics has pretty much destroyed my relationship with a player over a number. Any sensible person would say look I wasn't able to register 26 this season however next year I'll go out of my way to make sure you have it just focus on the football. 

Promises aren't a bad idea but until the game can put importance on certain promises - Not giving a player a shirt number is the same level of Broken promise as not giving playing time when you promised or to that nature.

For what it's worth you can workaround this issue with the editor by manually changing his number, but that would require you paying for and downloading something extra.

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To add to this list I just had my newly appointed captain demand to go to China, I said I'll give you a raise to stay, he said 4.7 million, I said okay, then I offered 4.7 million and his agent backed out over CLAUSES. So now the player is upset, but I can't tell the player, hey I tried and offered specifically what you asked for but YOUR AGENT blocked the offer and then refused to reopen negotiations, because when a player is mad at you you can't interact with them at all, which is precisely the most crucial time to speak with them...

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It's almost as if the systems doesn't realize it takes two parties to make a deal.

Player A is mad for "reasons" and wants to leave.  I List him for Transfer, no buyers, and he's mad at me?  And that's listing him at a price to move, way below market value.  I'm bad at transfers, I'll be the first to admit that, but if the game says your worth 100K and I can't sell you for 100K, or 75K, or 30K, why is that my fault?

Jellico73

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Promises are not just broken, they are bat **** crazy and game breaking. I signed Tim Cahill to Millwall, one promise was to give him his favourite number 17. I gave him number 17 and now he's slighly concerned because the promise was broken? What the hell?  

 

 

 

 

Ca.png

c2.png

 

Edit. And now he's unhappy. :rolleyes:

Edited by Viking

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That has all the hallmarks of a bug, I'd imagine the likely cause is that the final date for squad number submissions has not been reached & the code string used to verify that the promise has been kept has a failed IF function.

Bottom line is it's better to post that in the bugs forum than in here & tbh most of the eaxmple in this thread are probably better off being in the bugs forum.

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3 hours ago, Barside said:

That has all the hallmarks of a bug, I'd imagine the likely cause is that the final date for squad number submissions has not been reached & the code string used to verify that the promise has been kept has a failed IF function.

Bottom line is it's better to post that in the bugs forum than in here & tbh most of the eaxmple in this thread are probably better off being in the bugs forum.

Well, I rage-deleted the save. This was supposed to be my FM 2017 career-save, and I was very happy when I managed to get Millwall to the Championship and Cahill back to the club. I think I'm done with FM for the time being. Thank God Eastside Hockey Manager just updated to 1.4.

Edited by Viking

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6 hours ago, Viking said:

Well, I rage-deleted the save. This was supposed to be my FM 2017 career-save, and I was very happy when I managed to get Millwall to the Championship and Cahill back to the club. I think I'm done with FM for the time being. Thank God Eastside Hockey Manager just updated to 1.4.

Outside the Park Baseball 17 now out!

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14 hours ago, Viking said:

Promises are not just broken, they are bat **** crazy and game breaking. I signed Tim Cahill to Millwall, one promise was to give him his favourite number 17. I gave him number 17 and now he's slighly concerned because the promise was broken? What the hell?  

 

 

 

 

Ca.png

c2.png

 

Edit. And now he's unhappy. :rolleyes:

Until this bug is finally dealt with I recommend everyone pay the few extra dollars to get the editor so you can just immediately edit the player's number to what he requests instead of risking anything.

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