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phnompenhandy

Tutoring exploit

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I've discovered something that's not a bug but I consider an exploit - something totally unrealistic but can be done to one's considerable advantage in FM17. It concerns tutoring. In one single round of tuition a youth's Determination goes from whatever it started at to the full amount of the tutor. 

I've taken full advantage of this; In my lower league youth academy challenge I found my whole squad had very low DET, maximum 5. It was very noticeable that when we went behind the whole team's heads dropped. What I did is bring in old warhorses with high DET on non-contract back-up terms. They'd tutor my kids without ever playing, thus for free, generally sticking around for a year (2 kids tutored) before hanging up their boots. More than half I drafted in couldn't tutor due to rep being too low, but I just released them without ever paying a penny. I've had up to 12 of these experienced old chaps sitting in my U23 squad purely for the tutoring. They never complained about status or lack of game time, only poor quality of training (which of course is irrelevant since they don't play and only their DET attribute is important).

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Sorry I'm lost. 

Tutoring has always brought up determination to a much higher level. Or am I missing something?i

edit: or are you talking about the non contract part? 

Edited by DP

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agree it's a bit of a cheat and something I exploit - if im a big enough team to attract him; Drogba is always my priority signing because his personality is 'perfectionist' and he has high DET/LDR.

However,id like to think that if I spent 6 months with a highly determined player tutoring me that it would make me as determined to succeed as that player (or as in some cases not at all so quit the tutoring, which does happen in FM). I don't consider determination to be something you particularly get better at over long periods of time. My company bought in an inspirational leader to give a seminar... I wasn't inspired at all so my attribute value would remain 0/20 for inspiration. Others came out all chirpy and 'up for it' so would have made the jump to 20/20. It's not like they come out saying 'I feel a tiny little bit inspired by that, if I spend another 4 years going to his talks I will eventually become inspired'. Determination is the same to me.

 

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1 hour ago, DP said:

Sorry I'm lost. 

Tutoring has always brought up determination to a much higher level. Or am I missing something?i

edit: or are you talking about the non contract part? 

IIRC in previous years one round of tuition would increase DET by about 5 or 6 points, so if it's really low it would take 2 or 3 series of tuition to get it really high.

But the exploit part is tricking experienced older players to do the work for free. 

Having said that, I think it only works for the first year or two. There IS a bug in FM17 concerning reputations. When low-level clubs get promoted they get an insane reputation boost; I think it might apply to players too. I've gone from level 12 to level 10 and my teenage non-league players' reputations appear to be too high for the ex-league players to tutor them any more.

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tbf I'd argue the whole non-contract exploit isn't totally unlike real life where veterans struggling to convince anyone to take them on might be persuaded to train with a local club - having a positive impact on the youngsters - whilst hoping to get games and considering whether their mentoring experiences mean they've got a future in coaching or not

I also wonder whether some of the old warhorses were also giving the youngsters less positive hidden traits, but I'd still be tempted to try if I ever run a youth only save....

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4 hours ago, enigmatic said:

tbf I'd argue the whole non-contract exploit isn't totally unlike real life where veterans struggling to convince anyone to take them on might be persuaded to train with a local club - having a positive impact on the youngsters - whilst hoping to get games and considering whether their mentoring experiences mean they've got a future in coaching or not

I also wonder whether some of the old warhorses were also giving the youngsters less positive hidden traits, but I'd still be tempted to try if I ever run a youth only save....

I can't see anyone in their 30s working for a year for nothing. These aren't philanthropic Beckhams, they're lower/non-league journeymen.

I scout and scrutinise them for their personality traits to ensure they are professional.

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Personally I think the whole concept of tutoring as it is in the game is an exploit. From what I've seen, the AI doesn't utilise it to anything like the user can. 

The idea of the entire squad personality gradually shaping the younger players that was brought in recently is a much better representation of real life than individually assigning tutors wholesale.

I can imagine there would be almighty forum rage if it was removed though. :D

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39 minutes ago, phnompenhandy said:

I can't see anyone in their 30s working for a year for nothing. These aren't philanthropic Beckhams, they're lower/non-league journeymen.

I scout and scrutinise them for their personality traits to ensure they are professional.

Isn't the whole point with the non-contract players that they do have other jobs or income sources though? And that they don't have enough reputation for anybody to pay them to play or coach them so if they're still looking to have a future in football then training with your club and mentoring your youngsters is probably best option they've got.

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1 hour ago, johnhughthom said:

Personally I think the whole concept of tutoring as it is in the game is an exploit. From what I've seen, the AI doesn't utilise it to anything like the user can. 

The idea of the entire squad personality gradually shaping the younger players that was brought in recently is a much better representation of real life than individually assigning tutors wholesale.

I can imagine there would be almighty forum rage if it was removed though. :D

I'm 100% with you, with the new squad dynamic from last year I really can't see a reason to keep the 1 to 1 tutoring feature as it's entirely unrealistci in its logic & application, phnompenhandy's situation is a perfect example of an exploit that doesn't need to exist in FM17.

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You do realize that in real life a lot of  (1-1/2-1/1-more) tutoring does happen, maybe not in the way it's created in game but is does happen. 

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3 hours ago, Feddo said:

You do realize that in real life a lot of  (1-1/2-1/1-more) tutoring does happen, maybe not in the way it's created in game but is does happen. 

The part in bold is key here, SI have spent time to code a more realistic simulation of younger players learning from the more experienced players but have left in the old feature which doesn't make any sense.

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I've noticed this issue too, regen with 5 DET sat down with old guy with 18 DET, in just two months the youngster had 18 DET.


It just seems so rapid and dramatic a change than I ever remember it being before as if the old guy was the greatest motivator known to man.

 

I like the mechanism that you can mould your squad personality as its so vital in youth saves to get the full potential from the hand you're dealt but it just seems too quick in this version.

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