FM17: Athletic Club Bilbao - Basque in the glory

[yau]

Thanks for advice, San Jose is the only one I regret. Trying to retrain Iturraspe for CB because there's no other good options in the game. Inigo Martinez is not interested in joining rival club and Yeray gonna be my first choice at RB. So Laporte, Martinez and Exteria are the only CB in my first team so I just gonna pray for Javis' health. 

[Jean0987654321]

On 05/21/2017 at 07:56, nextqprmanager said:

Yau,

I`ve got Villalibre, not great so far - how do you play him pls ?

It took a while but Villalibre basically scores a goal per game for me in his 3rd season as a DF

[Ricotero_uy]

We've done it!!! The Double!!!

We have won La Liga and the Copa del Rey!!! An amazing season with a thrilling end.

We won also the Copa del Rey after beating Real Madrid and Barcelona in 1/8 and 1/4.  An incredible comeback against Real at home and an unbelievable performance at Barcelona after a 1-1 tie at home.

We left the Europa League undefeated in quarter finals against Tottenham after losing by away goals. They went to win the title against Manchester United.

The players did an amazing performance, specially at the attack. I used Knap's RAW Sienna 4231.

At the transfer market I bought Isma Lopez for the first team and 4 hot prospects from Zaragoza and Espanyol. The most hard thing to do was to keep our players from the big teams offers. Have to promise them that we will qualify for the next Champions League and I think I kept my word. But is going to be hard again now that a couple of them want to play with better players and I won't be able to buy any big name next season.

The bad news is that Aduriz and Iraizoz (specially Aduriz) are retiring. Iraizoz did a good season, sharing time with Kepa but was not going to have minutes the next season as Remiro seems to be ready for first team action. Aduriz is god, Villalibre was really amazing when he had to replace him, but I didn't want to lose him, at least for some Champions League action.

[MWE]

On ‎07‎/‎06‎/‎2017 at 20:47, Ricotero_uy said:

Where do you find this screen in game? Never seen it before.

[Ricotero_uy]

8 hours ago, MWE said:

Where do you find this screen in game? Never seen it before.

Club -> History -> Players

[CapaJr]

started as bilbao too and i'm trying to loan( or buy) merino in the first transfer window but for some reason the guy keeps rejecting me?

any ideas why? because it looks like you guys don't have such a problem  

[Ricotero_uy]

I coulnd't buy him in my story. I think there are a lot of basque players that don't like Athletic because of their original teams are derby rivals. (Real Sociedad, Osasuna)

Merino was formed at Osasuna. It takes time and you have to win respect to make those team available for signing.

[Ghents]

Osasuna shouldn't be an issue. It's mostly Real Sociedad.

 

As for Merino, you kind of have to 1) Hope BVB doesn't ever play him and he's stuck on their U20 squad/2nd team 2) Unsettle him by constantly saying publicly you're interested. Usually I can end up getting him on loan in January, then I try to buy him or loan him with a purchase option for the next season.

[bowieinspace]

I'm not sure how things have changed with the database updates since January, but it can take time. Dortmund are unlikely to play him so he will become available eventually. I found a loan with an option to buy worked well, but it took quite a while for him to want to negotiate a contract with me even after being at the club on loan for 6 months...I had to pay him a lot!!

Fortunately it's looking likely he'll sign in real life this summer!! Also Osasuna are not happy about Athletic buying their youth players and are now looking to include 'no Athletic' clauses in transfers/contracts to stop Athletic buying their players/former players. Unlikely it'll ever make much difference as they've threatened it for years but quite funny.

[Ghents]

15 hours ago, bowieinspace said:

I'm not sure how things have changed with the database updates since January, but it can take time. Dortmund are unlikely to play him so he will become available eventually. I found a loan with an option to buy worked well, but it took quite a while for him to want to negotiate a contract with me even after being at the club on loan for 6 months...I had to pay him a lot!!

Fortunately it's looking likely he'll sign in real life this summer!! Also Osasuna are not happy about Athletic buying their youth players and are now looking to include 'no Athletic' clauses in transfers/contracts to stop Athletic buying their players/former players. Unlikely it'll ever make much difference as they've threatened it for years but quite funny.

Looks like NUFC are buying him. Yay, IRL, but booo in FM.

[bowieinspace]

3 hours ago, Ghents said:

Looks like NUFC are buying him. Yay, IRL, but booo in FM.

Yeah saw that this morning, so disappointed At least it will give Vesga more opportunities but it's such a shame missing out on someone with his level of ability

[Ricotero_uy]

Yes, he has great potential but looks he doesn't want to play for us. I prefer giving the chance to the young lions.

[bowieinspace]

9 hours ago, Ricotero_uy said:

Yes, he has great potential but looks he doesn't want to play for us. I prefer giving the chance to the young lions.

Absolutely, it would have been great for him to join but not if he's not committed to the cause. Tough for FM saves though as he's a loan with an obligation to buy, so he won't be available to buy for Athletic on FM for 2 years at least at the start of the next game realistically. 

IRL today interesting to see Ziganda is sticking with Vesga over San Jose at this stage. Obviously wants the double pivot to be more dynamic, but San Jose does a great job shielding the defence...without San Jose the team doesn't have much defensive cover for the centre backs at all, so intrigued to see how Ziganda's tactical system plays out here

[Ji-Sung Park]

What's up guys, thinking about going for Iñaki Williams as a striker, will have to pay the buy out clause of €37.5M. Will he score for fun?

[Ricotero_uy]

In my save I didn't use him as Striker. I used him as AMR (Inside Forward), Aduriz first and Villalibre second were my first options to that position.

He has been playing really well although he didn't score too many goals.

His attributes at 3rd season.

His stats in my career.

[bowieinspace]

Better as a winger/inside forward to be honest. Your system might be perfect for him, but I would imagine there's better options out there as a striker (assuming you're managing another club other than Athletic)

[Jean0987654321]

I like using Inaki as a SS. Seems to score for fun from there...

[Ji-Sung Park]

Appreciate it. In my season 3 save he has slightly higher attacking abilities, but no huge difference. Might pick him up in the winter window as he is unhappy there.

[Ö-zil to the Arsenal!]

Hola, everyone.

Decided to have a go as Athletic Bilbao. The Basque-only policy makes it an interesting save and the squad has lots of different options tactically.

Made a couple of minor additions to the squad but overall it's largely the same.

 

The legacy of Bielsa lives on in that we have the second hardest working squad in the league.

 

Will certainly be taking advantage of this, playing a high-intensity pressing game.

Over the course of the pre-season I have settled on 3 different options - depending on the situation.

4-3-3

4-2-3-1

3-3-1-3

The objective here is to be able to maintain a +1 advantage in defence over the opposition attack and to mirror the opposition formation, particularly in midfield.

Our playing style - for all 3 systems - reflects this.

• High intensity press
• Direct attacking game
• Fluid attacking movement

The challenge is going to be the fitness to maintain this intensity for 90 minutes so we have a more pragmatic - yet still very positive - Plan B aimed at controlling the game more.

The pressing remains the same maximum effort closing down however being more reserved in possession and holding on to the ball a more effectively should reduce the running dramatically i.e increasing possession from 50% to 60% whilst maintaining the same pressing still means 20% less time spent pressing.

Pre-season has been solid so morale is high.

Now, the real season begins and we have a reasonably favourable start.

Before heading into a very tough patch in November!

[Jean0987654321]

Welcome aboard, Ozil. Just remember, you're here forever

 

Its taken me years to build a decent side that can contend with the league. Hopefully, I aim to show off some of my regens.  Yes, I'm in my sixth season

[bowieinspace]

Welcome aboard Ozil, great to see you over here after seeing you post a fair bit over in the tactics forum! 

For someone like yourself who loves the tactical side of FM, Athletic should be a dream save as it forces you to be creative tactically, or use the youth systems to train people specifically to fill roles in your systems. Can't wait to see how you get on with your set ups there, looks very interesting!

[Kamakazeee]

Hey everyone.

New football season is starting so I've got a buzz for football atm. So hopefully I can enjoy a game on fm, so wondering how everyone sets there databases up for an Bilbao save?

[bowieinspace]

9 hours ago, Kamakazeee said:

Hey everyone.

New football season is starting so I've got a buzz for football atm. So hopefully I can enjoy a game on fm, so wondering how everyone sets there databases up for an Bilbao save?

I think it's always good to get the game running as fully as your computer can manage, but from an Athletic point of view you only really need the main european leagues running.

[Ghents]

11 hours ago, Kamakazeee said:

Hey everyone.

New football season is starting so I've got a buzz for football atm. So hopefully I can enjoy a game on fm, so wondering how everyone sets there databases up for an Bilbao save?

Add all players of nationality -> basque

helps ensure there will be more basque regens

[Kamakazeee]

10 hours ago, Ghents said:

Add all players of nationality -> basque

helps ensure there will be more basque regens

 

13 hours ago, bowieinspace said:

I think it's always good to get the game running as fully as your computer can manage, but from an Athletic point of view you only really need the main european leagues running.

Yeah I added all the main European leagues and left out the usual South American ones. 

 

Is it pays basque you have have to add?

 

[Ghents]

Yes, pays Basque.

[Ö-zil to the Arsenal!]

Safe to say, I am loving this save. Playing at a snails pace but the first 3-games have given me the opportunity to use each of the systems mentioned in my previous post.

Disclaimer: understand this is the player and team guide but with such restrictions on signings there's only so much to talk about. If people don't find the tactics side interesting, let me know and I'll go to the tactics forum.

Valencia v Athletic Bilbao

Valencia lined up in a balanced 4-2-3-1, which I am expecting to face regularly in La Liga.

Observations:

• An aggressive shape with 4-attacking players in the final 3rd.
• One central forward.
• Double pivot in midfield likely to be more conservative to balance.
• Fullbacks may or may not bomb forward.

We responded by lining up in our 4-3-3 shape.

Why?

• Our centre backs have a 2v1 against the opposition striker.
• The use of a Half Back allows us to build up using La Salida Lavolpiana, to help us play through the congestion from the top-heavy opposition.
• The rest of our team mirrors the opposition attacking midfield, wings, central midfield and full-backs, matching them one-to-one.
• Munian and De Marcos both come inside allowing us to out number the opposition midfield in possession.

Defensive Shape

Simple, 4-5-1 defensive shape, pressing high-up the field.

• Was proven wrong about the Valencia midfield. As you can see they moved quite a bit from midfield.
   -> the disadvantage of this was that our midfield got pulled about tracking them.
   -> the advantage was that their defensive transition play was poor. Nobody was holding when we won possession.
• Opposition full backs attacked and our wings tracked them.

Transition from Defence to Attack

Here we play La Salida Lavolpiana, allowing us to play through the congested Valencia front line.

• La Salida Lavolpiana = Half Back drops deep and Centre Backs spread wide.
• Central Midfielder (Support) moves forward creating space for the Inverted Wingback to create a diamond.
• Left Wingback and Right Winger stay wide, stretching defence and offering wide options. 

The same thing happens winning the ball further up the field.

..and again, when under pressure.

Attacking Shape

We attack in a 2-3-5 shape.

• Our Deep-lying Forward - funnily enough - drops deep.
• The Inside Forward and Central Midfielder take attacking positions either side of him.
• Right Winger and Left Wingback create width, stretching the defence. Could even be wider here.
• Half Back, Deep-lying Playmaker and Inverted Wingback create a 3-man screen behind the attack which shields the defence, circulates possession and prevents the opposition clearing the ball.
• Centre backs stay back.

 

Athletic Bilbao v Alaves

Our first home game was against Alaves who lined up in a horrible, defensive 5-4-1 masterminded by Mauricio Pellegrino.

Observations:

• Opposite challenge to last time out. Very congested in their own defensive 3rd.
• You'd imagine the midfield and wide players would be reasonably adventurous, unless they are playing for a 0-0.

This time we roll out the 4-2-3-1.

Why?

• Again, our centre backs have a 2v1 against the opposition striker.
• Lack of pressing threat means I can commit my holding midfielder further forward, in return giving a platform for my more advanced midfielder to support my striker more.
• The rest of our team mirrors the opposition central midfield, wingers and full-backs, matching them one-to-one.
• In attack, both of our wide players cut inside which - combined with the attacking midfielder gives us potential for an overloaded - yet very tight - 4v3 in attack.

Defensive Shape

Alaves built up play slowly so we pressed high up the field, often taking a 4-4-2 shape.

• 2v2 on each flank.
• 2v2 in central midfield.
• 2v1 against their attacker.

Many of their attacks went wide but really didn't cause our pressing shape any difficulty.

Here you can see that at times we pushed them right up the field. No idea how they ended up in that position mind! This was also the 87th minute so good fitness and concentration.

Despite sneaking a goal from a set-piece, Alaves never really got forward so I have taken a screenshot to demonstrate the deeper defensive shape from a subsequent game.

• Pretty standard but nice and solid 4-2-3-1.
• Nice compactness.

Attacking Shape

Years ago, Jonathan Wilson described the attacking shape of a 4-2-3-1 as a 'diamond sitting on a plinth'.

• Inside forwards play narrow, creating the diamond with the Striker and Attacking Midfielder.
• The double-pivot midfield and centre backs are the 'plinth'.
• Wingbacks bomb forward to provide width.

Deportivo La Coruña

Deportivo showed up fielding a 4-4-2 which I am glad to see as I wasn't expecting to see regularly in Spain.

Any readers of previous tactical threads will know what facing a 2-man striker force means... back-3 time! 

Why?

• Central defenders maintain their man advantage over the two opposition centre forwards.
• This is where things get interesting. On paper we are at a 3v4 disadvantage against the opposition midfield. That is, until you consider an important point.. When was the last time you came across a 4-4-2 with no holding midfielders? The vast majority of 4-4-2s will have the wide players and - probably - a central midfielder offering attacking support. This means that we match them 3v3.
• With this in mind our Attacking Midfielder - in this case with the aid of man-marking - picks up the opposition defensive midfielder whilst our wingers take the fullbacks.
• In possession, our Inverted Wingbacks come inside - once again - giving us a numerical overload in midfield.

Defensive Shape

Highlight of the system, for me. We tuck in to create a compact 5-4-1.

• 3v2 against the opposition striker.
• 2v2 on each flank.
• 2v2 in midfield.
• Again, great compactness.

As a contrast, this was taken in a friendly vs Juventus playing with a deeper midfield and you can see us pressing as more of a 5-1-3-1 as we adapt to the opposition shape.

Build up

Feel like I have seen this one before somewhere.. 

• 3-man defence spreads wide to nullify the opposition press.
• Inverted Wingbacks join the midfield to create a diamond with the Defensive and Attacking Midfielders.
• Wingers stay wide and the Centre Forward forward.
• 3-4-3 diamond shape giving us plenty of triangles and passing options to advance play.

Attacking Shape

Attacking shape is largely very similar but in a more advanced position.

• 3-4-3 diamond shape in attack with width, runners, plenty of passing options as well as control over the midfield preventing an easy escape.
• I won't mention the opposition Central Midfield positioning after my recent thread in the Tactics forum..

Results

Solid start with 3 wins from 3. Nothing groundbreaking but something to build upon for the rest of the season.

 

I'm not massively one for stats but it is nice to make Barcelona look like they're playing a Pulis' Stoke long-ball game! 

[Kamakazeee]

Great post Ozil, I used to play very similar to you, especially changing my defensive set up to negate the oppositions strikers. I'm a bit more lazier not with the tactical side of the game. I much prefer the developing of players, which is why I chose Athletic Bilbao.

Out of interest, with the mostly support duties, were you aiming for the high possession numbers? Or is that just a bonus from getting the shape?

[Ö-zil to the Arsenal!]

1 hour ago, Kamakazeee said:

Great post Ozil, I used to play very similar to you, especially changing my defensive set up to negate the oppositions strikers. I'm a bit more lazier not with the tactical side of the game. I much prefer the developing of players, which is why I chose Athletic Bilbao.

Out of interest, with the mostly support duties, were you aiming for the high possession numbers? Or is that just a bonus from getting the shape?

Thank you. How are you finding the youth development with Bilbao? I am a little disappointed with the current youth talents at the club - with the exception of a couple of decent prospects - but am interested to see what comes through the academy.

Answering your question.. the high number of Support roles is actually due to the Attack team mentality.

With an Attacking team mentality and a Very Fluid shape everyone is prioritising attacking anyway, and I found that using Attacking duties was just overkill.

Defend duty player in my system.

If you look top right at the individual mentality you can see that he's already slightly above neutral. I love a Defend duty in an Attacking system. They hold position and are sensible yet always look to play the ball forward.

Support duty player in my system
 

Now you can see that he's well above neutral in fact he is pretty attacking. This is because Very Fluid asks him to prioritise the Team Mentality. In case you can't make it out using this incredible user interface, these players are 70-30 in favour of attacking.

This gives me 6 players in each system who are 70-30 in favour of attack and a defensive core of 4 players who hold defensive position and play with a sensible yet positive outlook.

An attack role would be another 20% chunk higher again so near enough all out attack and - in my opinion - would mis-balance my system.

The other key advantage of this split of duties is compactness as you'll see through most of the screenshots.

Possession is actually a side effect.

[john1]

Loving your tactic in depth analysis, Ozil to Arsenal  Looking forward to more

[Jean0987654321]

@Ö-zil to the Arsenal! Not bad. Unfortunately, for me, I have to settle with a counterattacking 3-4-3ish shape as my defenders are not apt at keeping the ball. Seeing my regens trying to play the ball out from the back is a scare

[Saras-13-Bodiroga]

Great post Ozil!!! Could you give us your pi and oi???

[Kamakazeee]

On 8/5/2017 at 00:04, Ö-zil to the Arsenal! said:

Thank you. How are you finding the youth development with Bilbao? I am a little disappointed with the current youth talents at the club - with the exception of a couple of decent prospects - but am interested to see what comes through the academy.

Answering your question.. the high number of Support roles is actually due to the Attack team mentality.

With an Attacking team mentality and a Very Fluid shape everyone is prioritising attacking anyway, and I found that using Attacking duties was just overkill.

Defend duty player in my system.

If you look top right at the individual mentality you can see that he's already slightly above neutral. I love a Defend duty in an Attacking system. They hold position and are sensible yet always look to play the ball forward.

Support duty player in my system
 

Now you can see that he's well above neutral in fact he is pretty attacking. This is because Very Fluid asks him to prioritise the Team Mentality. In case you can't make it out using this incredible user interface, these players are 70-30 in favour of attacking.

This gives me 6 players in each system who are 70-30 in favour of attack and a defensive core of 4 players who hold defensive position and play with a sensible yet positive outlook.

An attack role would be another 20% chunk higher again so near enough all out attack and - in my opinion - would mis-balance my system.

The other key advantage of this split of duties is compactness as you'll see through most of the screenshots.

Possession is actually a side effect.

I'm not that far into the game yet, I've only just hit November of the first season. I'm hoping for a good youth intake and hopefully the scouts find a few players. There are a few decent prospects, obviously Kepa will develop into a top keeper, Yeray seems to have a bit of potential and the young strikers Inaki Williams and Asier Villalibre should turn into decent players. Other than those mentioned, there's not much else to shout about. 

I've seen you talk about the mentality bar quite a bit and also you work off some spreadsheet don't you? It's never something I have delved too deep into taking notice of, as i usually just play by what see unfolding in the game itself. Tbh, if the mentality bar leans towards risk with the ball? They bar seems quite high even for a defend duty, I'm surprised by your high possession numbers, as id have thought you'd see a lot of through balls or does your high pressing effective enough to keep the possession numbers high?

[Ö-zil to the Arsenal!]

3 hours ago, Kamakazeee said:

I'm not that far into the game yet, I've only just hit November of the first season. I'm hoping for a good youth intake and hopefully the scouts find a few players. There are a few decent prospects, obviously Kepa will develop into a top keeper, Yeray seems to have a bit of potential and the young strikers Inaki Williams and Asier Villalibre should turn into decent players. Other than those mentioned, there's not much else to shout about.

Keep us updated. I am focusing on the shorter term squad for now but will have Rico tutoring on a loop until I have a decent capacity to get an academy set up going.

Got a bit of money in the piggy bank to upgrade the DoF / HoYD for a better intake but not seeing a huge number of options, as yet.

 

3 hours ago, Kamakazeee said:

I've seen you talk about the mentality bar quite a bit and also you work off some spreadsheet don't you? It's never something I have delved too deep into taking notice of, as i usually just play by what see unfolding in the game itself. Tbh, if the mentality bar leans towards risk with the ball? They bar seems quite high even for a defend duty, I'm surprised by your high possession numbers, as id have thought you'd see a lot of through balls or does your high pressing effective enough to keep the possession numbers high?

Yep, mentality is exactly that. It's the mentality which your players will look to play the game.

Anyone who plays / has played football should be able to relate to playing an expansive attacking game vs. playing more conservatively or neutral. The tactics creator gives you the full-range from backs to the wall, 1-0 up in the 93rd minute of a cup final to all-out-attack chasing a goal to avoid relegation.

My observation would be that pressing is the key to the high numbers as the Attack system is entirely possession neutral - don't care if we keep it or not as long as we're creating chances - but obviously the control system is more possession-focused.

As for the mentality of the Defend players. This is as high as I go, but I love the way they play. There are a few key aspects which make it work:

1. We defend as a team, so they have a lot of support.
2. Formations used form naturally strong defensive shapes.
3. Each role naturally has Hold Position so we have good cover in the transition from attack-to-defence.
4. On the ball, they are sensible yet prefer to play the ball forward. It's only a 55-45 preference to go forwards though so it doesn't pressure them into doing anything stupid.

 

On 5 August 2017 at 01:35, Saras-13-Bodiroga said:

Great post Ozil!!! Could you give us your pi and oi???

TIs are in my first post. There's 2 playing styles.

PIs are pretty simple:

• GK distribute to quickly and short.
• Striker always roams
• In 4-3-3:
  -> MC(S) get forward more.
  -> W(S) get forward more.
  -> IF(S) sit narrow & roam.
• In 4-2-3-1:
  -> Right IF(S) sit narrow and get forward.
  -> Left IF(S) sit narrow and roam.
  -> AM(S) channels and get forward.
• In 3-3-1-3
  -> Both W(S) get forward
  -> AM(S) channels and get forward.

The only thing really changing is the front 4 with:

1. Attacking midfielder playing either in Midfield or Attacking midfield.
2. Front 3 alternating between 2 wide, 2 narrow and 1 narrow w/ 1 wide.
    -> Wingbacks / Inverted Wingbacks move opposite to their Attacker.

[Ö-zil to the Arsenal!]

Fast strikers are always my weak-point. So far I have had to change my system twice this season - lowering my defensive line to normal (maintaining pressing) and dropping Laporte to cover:

1. Against Las Palmas where Jese gave me a torrid time but we scraped away with a 3-2 win.
2. Now, again against Villarreal who have Bakambu and - one of my favourite players - Bruno pulling strings in midfield.

Both lined up in very impressively organised 4-2-3-1s. Las Palmas played very, very quick transitions whereas Villarreal are the first ones to beat us in the midfield battle.

Here is Villarreal's "4-2-3-1".

Really enjoy coming up against a well organised AI.

End result:

• Was 2-0 down at half-time with under 40% possession - both for the first time in the season.
• At around the 55th minute, Villarreal dropped back into a 4-1-4-1.
  -> without pressure on our build-up play we responded with a 4-2-3-1.
• This allowed us back into the game, gaining control of the midfield.
• Finished 2-2 and got back to 46% possession, despite having to Attack for the entire game. Huge distances run but great work ethic & determination.
• First dropped points of the season but I will very much take it!

Español at home up next, followed by Barcelona, Atletico Madrid and Real Madrid back to back! 

[Saras-13-Bodiroga]

I asked for opposition instructions. Also a great HOYD who works very well for me is Jorge Rodriguez De Cozar!! 

[Ö-zil to the Arsenal!]

9 minutes ago, Saras-13-Bodiroga said:

I asked for opposition instructions. Also a great HOYD who works very well for me is Jorge Rodriguez De Cozar!! 

Sorry, sir. Almost never. Every now and again showing a particularly dangerous attacker onto their weaker foot or hard tackling a playmaker but rarely. Can't think of ever having observed a difference.

[Ö-zil to the Arsenal!]

Fortune (almost) favours the brave!

Pressing Barcelona as a 4-2-4..

Pushed them to the wire but ultimately tired and fell to the quality of MSN.

[drigaco]

On 02/08/2017 at 18:01, Ö-zil to the Arsenal! said:

The legacy of Bielsa lives on in that we have the second hardest working squad in the league.

I know that this is not a thread about Bielsa but today I saw his first match with Lille in Ligue 1 and his teams play exactly the same. Started with a defensive midfielder in case Nantes didn't play with 2 strikers but as soon as the game starts the defensive midfielder drops inbetween the centre backs, just like Javi Martinez did at Bilbao. One thing I would like is a player filter for Bielsa, he left Lazio because they didn't buy the players he wanted and at Lille he spend some money but he brought exactly the players he wanted,seems like he does a very good job at watching games and scouting. I don't know how he pulled it of at Bilbao but he did a very good job.

[Ricotero_uy]

Bielsa wanted to improve Lezama (Athletic's training facility) but he had problems with president Urrutia. The last season didn't go well and that lead to his departure. It was a great time for Athletic and he left his mark.

[bowieinspace]

FINALLY back playing the game after a computer meltdown, it took me quite a while to get a new laptop to play on!

Update:

One of my greatest achievements on FM in many ways...the way we played particularly in the second half of the season was truly special, unbelievably tough to beat and with a team who, to be honest aren't a squad you would normally consider strong enough. We have added Azpilicueta and Herrera in previous seasons, and we also managed to get Javi Martinez in January. I was a bit 50/50 on whether to sign him as he cost me 17million and he only really added depth, but none the less important depth. He started 50% of the games after I signed him and he did a good job, but didn't transform things by any means. 

Tactics:

 I'm a firm believer in playing 'our way', so I tend to stay with one system and tweak it in game if necessary, but maintain a lot of consistency with our set up. I'll sometimes just make some mentality adjustments but will nearly always start with this (ignore the players who are in the 11, it's not far off my full team but it's not by first choice XI:

Our way of playing revolves around taking what you would normally consider a more defensively orientated style, and using it as a method to dominate possession with aggressive pressing, with player roles designed to destabilise opposition shape. The defensive shape lends itself to be doing tough to break down through the middle, focused on winning the ball back in three ways... 1) if they want to distribute short from the GK we press it and force mistakes. However if they play through the press, the defence/midfield are sat back far that they restrict space and teams can't take advantage of us, 2) If they want to go long, we're deep enough that our defenders don't get caught out, and 3) if they want to play through us, the counter mentality/fluid shape means we defend in tight lines as a unit, so if they build slowly from the back, once they're in our half they get suffocated for space.

On the attack the system allows us a couple of options. If we win the ball back deep, our wide players, CM (A) and CF (A) provide outlets for our RPM and BPD to find. The RPM and CM (A) are always making runs, causing havoc, while the CF(A) drifts around up front and makes space for our midfield runners. On the left, Muniain/Sabin make aggressive runs inside, and the left back pushes up to stretch that flank. If the CF(A) drifts left, the CM (A) floods into the gap he creates, and if he drifts right, the IF (A) on the left has more space to work with. The CF (A)'s movement causes a lot of issues, and the amount of runners behind him make it hard for teams to deal with us. With the counter mentality, if the break isn't looking like it'll work out, the RPM, DM (S) and CM (A) slow the tempo down and we focus on playing through the middle, again using the movement of the various attacking players to pull the defenders around and create gaps. Probably one of the more interesting tactics I've created.

At the end of the season PSG offered Laporte's release clause. I knew I'd have to go massive with the contract offer to keep him around, so I gave it everything I had. After all, there's literally no one I can replace him with

..who needs money.

He is never being an unused sub

 

[Ö-zil to the Arsenal!]

@bowieinspace Fantastic achievement, congratulations!

How did the Ander Herrera transfer come about? He is probably the one player I would love to bring back the most but he's well in the Manchester United first team at the moment (2nd half of the first season) and on a massive contract.

Looks like I'll be getting Merino on the cheap after a solitary 3 games for Dortmund B and zero league starts. He'll be in that left central midfield spot but means I could do with adding some more creativity as his partner.

[bowieinspace]

8 hours ago, Ö-zil to the Arsenal! said:

@bowieinspace Fantastic achievement, congratulations!

How did the Ander Herrera transfer come about? He is probably the one player I would love to bring back the most but he's well in the Manchester United first team at the moment (2nd half of the first season) and on a massive contract.

Looks like I'll be getting Merino on the cheap after a solitary 3 games for Dortmund B and zero league starts. He'll be in that left central midfield spot but means I could do with adding some more creativity as his partner.

Ander Herrera was only a rotation player for United for whatever reason, I'm not sure if they'd signed others or what though - this save was started on the original database back in November so it's possible changes to the DB since then have meant Herrera's importance at United has changed? Not sure, might be speculating there. Either way I was able to pick him up for around 20million and he was happy to discuss terms with me! He's been incredible since coming back, especially in the CM(A) role.

Good times with Merino there! I had to pay a lot to get him in.

[Ö-zil to the Arsenal!]

Ah, that makes sense. He's playing a lot more with the new patch. Will see how they go in the summer transfer window. Knowing Mourinho he'll probably go for some destructive lump in midfield. Shame they don't have Matic on this!

Merino - according to my scouts - still has excellent potential but is well out of favour at Dortmund. May even pick him up in Jan if the board would up my transfer budget.

Squad is creaking at the seams in January competing on 3 fronts. Starting to pick up a few draws which should / could have been wins. Don't know the Spanish calendar too well as to whether we can expect any rest. What are the European qualification positions in Spain? Top-4 is Champions League?

[Ö-zil to the Arsenal!]

As I mentioned in my first post, November throws up some massive games for us.

After a strong start against weaker sides we head into a period which will determine our status as genuine title challengers.

Barcelona vs. Athletic Bilbao

First real challenge of the season, and it's a big one. Barcelona at Camp Nou. 

Barcelona line up in their typical 4-3-3 with Messi, Neymar and Suarez up front. Glad to see the back of this combo with Neymar's move to PSG!

We respond with a 4-2-3-1 with Rico coming in to midfield alongside Beñat.

Why?

• 2v1 against Suarez.
• Lack of opposition presence in AM strata means I am confident that this build up play will be adequate.
• Allows us to press man-to-man across the wide forwards, midfield, holding midfield and wingbacks whilst maintaining pressure on the centre backs.

Defensive Positioning

As should be expected against Barcelona at Camp Nou, we spent a lot of the game in our core defensive shape - a compact 4-2-3-1.

Our biggest concern was the threat of Messi and Neymar making runs inside and overloading the centre.

Fullbacks were instructed to show them wide, but that almost never worked. What did work, however, was the defensive minded double-pivot shifting across to create a 2v1 shown here on Messi.

..and here on Neymar.
 

Aggressive Pressing

We press aggressively, right up the field.

Including the fullbacks.

..and even resulting in a 4-2-4 shape, when we smell blood.

Build-up Play

Ageing Iniesta and - perhaps, poorly instructed? - Rakitic failed to offer much support to the front 3 pressing meaning our build up play was reasonably straight forward.

Attacking Shape

We attacked a lot with very quick transitions so often in less organised shapes, however when we constructed at attack our typical shape looked like this.

As before, wide forwards coming inside to create a diamond and the wingbacks offering width with holding midfielders protecting against the counter.

Defensive Transition

However our major weakness can be demonstrated in the same shot.

Look at the distance the wingback has to cover to reach his defensive position when the ball is turned over and the space that affords Messi.

My attempted solutions

1. Give wing backs more reserved duties.
   -> Resulted in defensive stability but lack of width in attack.
2. Drop one midfielder into defence, creating a 3-3-1-3.
   -> Back 3 was better positioned in the transition from Attack to Defence. Worked reasonably well.

Ultimately we lost the game, but more than held our own. Played our own way and scoring 3-goals at Camp Nou is not easy.

Atletico de Madrid vs. Athletic Bilbao

Surprise, surprise.. Atletico Madrid line up in Simeone's 4-4-2 formation. Looks highly conservative with a fullback at right midfield and a centre back at left back.

We respond - as most will be able to guess by now - with the 3-3-1-3.

Why?

• 3v2 on the opposition centre forwards.
• Man-to-man pressing on the opposition wide midfielders, central midfield and fullbacks.

Attacking Shape

Despite playing at home Atletico came out with no intention of playing football so we dominated the ball for large portions of the match, mainly in a 3-4-3 diamond with inverted wingbacks joining the midfield.

..which turned into a 3-3-4 as we got more advanced.

Match Engine Problem for Atletico

As I have pointed out before, there is an issue with the defensive position of central midfielders in a defensive 4-4-2. Atletico suffered from this badly:

Here the wrong holding midfielder is closing down so leaving a gigantic hole ahead of his defence. Directly the area my inverted wingback is playing in.

Here the holding midfielders are holding hands and leaving absolutely crazy amounts of space.

Hopefully SI are working on resolving this for FM2018 as I type!

Defensive Positioning

Despite playing with one hand behind their back, Atletico are still a threat going forwards.

In defence, our wingbacks drop back to create a back 5. Atletico had Augusto in a considerably more attacking role than Saul which meant our midfield was staggered in a kind of 5-1-3-1 defensive shape.

Athletic Bilbao vs. Real Madrid

Hosting the Champions of Europe is never going to be easy. Zidane lines his side up in a simple 4-3-3 with Casemiro shielding the defence.

We respond by going back to our 4-2-3-1.

Why?

• Same as against Barcelona's 4-3-3.

Defensive Shape

Luka Modric and Toni Kroos are two of the best midfield playmakers in the game. As a result, this was one of the toughest battles for position we faced, and we lost it.

As a result, we spent quite a lot of time defending in our compact 4-2-3-1 shape.

As with Messi & Neymar, Cristiano Ronaldo was clearly a big threat cutting inside from his wing so we dealt with this the same way using our holding midfielders to come across and create the 2v1.

Interestingly, Real Madrid played a more controlled build up with everything going through Modric. Odd to see Barcelona and Real swap roles. Barcelona - a team famed for controlled build up - playing quick transitions and Real Madrid, vice versa.

This meant that Real controlled the majority of the possession but did not cause the same problem getting in behind my advanced wingbacks.

Intense Pressing

 

 

Real's possession game meant we pressed high.

Attacking Play

..as a result, much of our attacking play came from attacking directly after winning the ball back high.

But when we could build-up you'd see the typical diamond take shape centrally, flanked by the wingbacks.

..and when we built-up from the back, Real Madrid's formation naturally left is a little bit of space to get out.

The movement that ultimately won the game was actually our Attacking Midfielder, hitting the space created by the movement of our forward creating a 4-2-4 formation.

Over the course of the past 3-games this has been huge for us. Acting as an out-and-out midfielder in defence, linking play and then joining the attack as an extra striker. At times it has been like playing with an extra man on the field.

Meanwhile Atletico - and their Swiss cheese midfield - did us a massive favour..

 

[bowieinspace]

7 hours ago, Ö-zil to the Arsenal! said:

Ah, that makes sense. He's playing a lot more with the new patch. Will see how they go in the summer transfer window. Knowing Mourinho he'll probably go for some destructive lump in midfield. Shame they don't have Matic on this!

Merino - according to my scouts - still has excellent potential but is well out of favour at Dortmund. May even pick him up in Jan if the board would up my transfer budget.

Squad is creaking at the seams in January competing on 3 fronts. Starting to pick up a few draws which should / could have been wins. Don't know the Spanish calendar too well as to whether we can expect any rest. What are the European qualification positions in Spain? Top-4 is Champions League?

Correct yeah top 4, with 4th going into the qualifying round and top 3 straight to groups.

January in Spain is absolutely savage, 2 games a week every week due to the two legged cup fixtures. Once you up the club performance over a few seasons the board stop viewing the copa del rey as particularly important so you can heavily rotate and use youngsters/b team players as needed

[Jean0987654321]

On August 10, 2017 at 09:35, Ö-zil to the Arsenal! said:

@bowieinspace Fantastic achievement, congratulations!

How did the Ander Herrera transfer come about? He is probably the one player I would love to bring back the most but he's well in the Manchester United first team at the moment (2nd half of the first season) and on a massive contract.

Looks like I'll be getting Merino on the cheap after a solitary 3 games for Dortmund B and zero league starts. He'll be in that left central midfield spot but means I could do with adding some more creativity as his partner.

I would put Merino as a DM or even a BPD. That's the role I have him in. He's is amazing in the regista position

[Saras-13-Bodiroga]

2 hours ago, Ö-zil to the Arsenal! said:

Man-to-man pressing on the opposition wide midfielders, central midfield and fullbacks.

You mean "mark a specific player" option or tight marking OI

[Ö-zil to the Arsenal!]

1 hour ago, Saras-13-Bodiroga said:

You mean "mark a specific player" option or tight marking OI

No, I stay zonal. I mean my MC pressing the opposition MC, my AM pressing the opposition DM, my AMR pressing the opposition DL etc. Every player is accounted for.

[bowieinspace]

 

It's always just a matter of time with Javi Martinez