The Addition of Dutch Lower Leagues (HELP thread)

[krlenjushka]

you can run test in editor and see specofic data under "test" section in competition. many good data can be found here:

post #2 , picture # 2

[BMNJohn]

On 12/04/2017 at 11:12, Slabbekoorn said:

Its actually not a bad idea. I'll create a new league in normal mode, then I'll go to advanced rules and compare that file with my own. This way I can compare.

Actually, I did something similar down to Hoofdklasse (Eerste Klasse is only there for relegation purposes). Similar in that I didn't wipe the rules for Eredivisie and Jupiler, but only added Tweede Divisie, Derde Divisie and Hoofdklasse while staying in Normal Mode as I believe that if you go to Advanced Rules, you can modify the rules for the Eredivisie and Jupiler League. It mostly works, but you don't get the fancy rules in the divisions that were added that exist in Netherlands (picture related). I'm thinking about U-18s non-EU players being unable to play and minimum wages for non-EU players. The Periods system to determine the team that qualify for the playoffs doesn't exist (the best placed teams are picked up instead). I don't think you can't add year specific rules either. It only allows for very generic rules. I can't add Districtsbeker either.  I didn't change anything about the Reserves and U-19s setup as I believe it works fine. There's also things I don't think I can do in Basic Mode, like how you've managed to make the 11 league winners of the Eerste Divisie promote into Hoofdklasse despite Hoofklasse having only 8 straight relegation places. Which, in turn, makes me wonder why there aren't just 12 Eerste Klasse groups with the Hoofdklasse having 3 straight relegation rules and no damned promotion playoffs at all for the Eerste Klasse, but that would be too simple.

You can just use Reddiablo's file as a base. You just remove the rules and add them again. The annoying thing is that you can't have two instances of the Editor running at the same time, which would help for comparison purposes.

 

 

EDIT2: To save you some time, I've done most of the Basic Rules using Reddiablo's file, hopefully correctly with TV dates. I haven't set the winter break. There are no relegations between Hoofdklasse and Eerste Klasse due to the fairly complex rules used there, but Eerste Klasse has two teams per division relegating to Lagere Divisies. The file won't verify because Netherlands requires 100 teams at least from Lower Leagues (picture related in Advanced Mode), which you can edit out. By default, the KNVB Beker will try to fetch teams from "Lower Leagues", but since you'll be rewriting the cup anyway, who cares. Which reminds me that there quite a few Dutch teams in "Lower Division" that aren't in "Lagere Divisies" for some reason. Also, due to the season end being set by default on May 28th, the league portions of the divisions I added are set to end on May 7th, to give the database time to set up the playoffs.

Also note that because the database uses quite a few hard-coded rules: quite a number of things will have to be added once in Advanced mode, especially under the "Netherlands" tab: proper season update day (July 6th), proper transfer widows, the winter break, which teams meet which and when during the playoffs, etc. So there's still a lot to do.

Basic Netherlands_F8810A12-4777-47D2-8814-B8657AA0BCE8.fmf

 

EDIT3: Since I had too much time in my hands, I copied the settings from the Tweede Divisie up to the Hoofdklasse in Advanced Mode. I haven't modified the cups, the top two divisions nor the Eerste Divisie yet outside of promotion rules. The playoffs setups, promotion and relegation rules work as intended between all divisions. The loan rules should work too The playoffs share the same fixture rules as their respective league; I don't believe this should cause any issues considering that the only thing that differs is the presence of squad numbers (that players should have anyway if they did play in the league). At least the Editor considers the file correct, and players do go on holiday early.

So remains modifications to the Eerste Divisie, which shouldn't take much time since it's pretty much all about match days/TV dates (I believe I've added the winter holiday based on the Eredivisie, which is slightly different than the Jupiler one). All the cups have yet to be added or modified, and one still have to get rid of the European places playoff in the Eredivisie. Perhaps I'll continue later on since I'm on holidays, but that was soul draining.

As a side note, it would be a decent idea to consider making all Tweede Divisie teams Semi-Pro at the very least. The poaching of amateur players, especially by Jupiler teams at each transfer window is infernal, for lack of a better term.

 

 

Then I simulated and this happened. Reminder that I didn't touch Jupiler rules. One should never load only one country... Of course, the "long-term" affiliation between these clubs and their senior clubs will prevent them from ever playing in the same division (IIRC even if -God forbid- Ajax gets relegated, the Amateurs will also be relegated regardless of their position), but that's still pretty hilarious.

Hoofdklasse_C594819A-E1DC-45CA-A492-92C9F5CDBF73.fmf

Edited April 14, 2017 by BMNJohn
Added editor data.

[Slabbekoorn]

Thanks for your help, I will use this file to compare with my own.;)

The Dutch leagues are indeed weird. I managed the 8 relegated / 11 promoted through basic rules. And then write down the Advanced Rules outcome. But the extra 3 relegation spots are located in the playoffs. Where 8 teams qualify from Hoofdklasse (and 33 from Eerste Klasse) but they compete for 5 spots. The other 3 spots are from excess of Eerste Klasse champions. It was quite the puzzle.

[BMNJohn]

1 hour ago, Slabbekoorn said:

Thanks for your help, I will use this file to compare with my own.;)

The Dutch leagues are indeed weird. I managed the 8 relegated / 11 promoted through basic rules. And then write down the Advanced Rules outcome. But the extra 3 relegation spots are located in the playoffs. Where 8 teams qualify from Hoofdklasse (and 33 from Eerste Klasse) but they compete for 5 spots. The other 3 spots are from excess of Eerste Klasse champions. It was quite the puzzle.

I'll try completing the Eerste Klasse at first, then see if I can merge cup rules between files instead of rewritting everything. It's not too tedious when you're down the files, I just do a rule set for one Klasse for each day (Saturday and Sunday), then duplicate it. The cup rules are mostly beyond my patience; so I'm curious to see if I can carefully merge two files to avoid doing it all over again. At the very least the holidays work pretty fine so far.

 

EDIT: You're going to see that under the new rules that the season (including playoffs) finishes one week earlier than on the original file. This was for practical purposes under basic rules to make sure that the season finishes in time and also helps with some gaps in the schedule especially for lower leagues.

Edited April 14, 2017 by BMNJohn

[Slabbekoorn]

I appreciate your help but we are creating 2 files now and that's a problem. I don't have the time to add the reserve rules and all cup rules again. I created the 2.0 version to add those reserve rules so otherwise that would all be a waste.

But I do agree with your method and the reserves should end sooner than they do now. Plus I still have to create the custom u19 cup because that will help with the holiday dates.

I also know that there are some gaps. But that's mostly because of all the Dutch holidays and I haven't set those yet in-game (which I should).

And I'm thinking of adding the Rijnmond Cup (South Holland cup that is not officialy part of the Dutch leagues).

[BMNJohn]

58 minutes ago, Slabbekoorn said:

I appreciate your help but we are creating 2 files now and that's a problem. I don't have the time to add the reserve rules and all cup rules again. I created the 2.0 version to add those reserve rules so otherwise that would all be a waste.

But I do agree with your method and the reserves should end sooner than they do now. Plus I still have to create the custom u19 cup because that will help with the holiday dates.

I also know that there are some gaps. But that's mostly because of all the Dutch holidays and I haven't set those yet in-game (which I should).

And I'm thinking of adding the Rijnmond Cup (South Holland cup that is not officialy part of the Dutch leagues).

I do not plan to go any further than what was there originally. Actually, not even there, I don't even plan to add cups myself. I do not have enough knowledge of the Netherlands nor enough will to edit in Advanced Mode more leagues, more cups and overall additions. I just wanted a somewhat working holiday system and more consistent Reserves/U19s setup.

 

EDIT: Here we go, down to the Eerste Klasse and verified. That's where I stop: I tried merging files but it doesn't work properly for that kind of stuff. The rest is up to you guys.

Eerste Klasse_92044352-6532-451E-9C31-8E27A1A5C3CE.fmf

Edited April 14, 2017 by BMNJohn

[Slabbekoorn]

1 hour ago, BMNJohn said:

I do not plan to go any further than what was there originally. Actually, not even there, I don't even plan to add cups myself. I do not have enough knowledge of the Netherlands nor enough will to edit in Advanced Mode more leagues, more cups and overall additions. I just wanted a somewhat working holiday system and more consistent Reserves/U19s setup.

 

EDIT: Here we go, down to the Eerste Klasse and verified. That's where I stop: I tried merging files but it doesn't work properly for that kind of stuff. The rest is up to you guys.

Eerste Klasse_92044352-6532-451E-9C31-8E27A1A5C3CE.fmf

Thanks John!

[BMNJohn]

9 hours ago, Slabbekoorn said:

Thanks John!

Note that every league has 12 named subs for 3 allowed during a game while in the original file some leagues have 12 named subs and others 7. I don't believe that outside of that there are any significant differences, but I still invite you to quickly check if something isn't to your liking.

[chokosc]

Hey guys, what is the most up to date file?

[Slabbekoorn]

On 2017-3-22 at 12:24, Reddiablo said:

Here it is. Have made a bunch of data adjustments. Transfers, but also contract renewals of eg. Schone, El Ahmadi as well as a few player changes and manager adjustments

FM Nederand FM2017 Update 3.0_B5E3FB65-AE9B-4896-967A-9EE8AD3879D5.fmf

This is the most recent file @chokosc

[Slabbekoorn]

With Achilles 29's relegation from the professional leagues to the amateurs comes the fact that they'll have to remove their Jong Achilles 29 team from the pyramid. 

How in the world can I add this rule in my game files?

[BMNJohn]

7 hours ago, Slabbekoorn said:

With Achilles 29's relegation from the professional leagues to the amateurs comes the fact that they'll have to remove their Jong Achilles 29 team from the pyramid. 

How in the world can I add this rule in my game files?

In Italy, SI (I suppose) dealt with it by giving a huge point penalty to teams that are supposed to be bankrupt, so that at the end of the season said teams are relegated no matter what. As for Jong Achilles, either promote one more team, or relegate one less team. I suppose people will forgive you for doing that as it's something that no one could have possibly foreseen.

 

EDIT: It was FMITA Forum's database to enable Serie D that had seen SS Chieti being "gifted" -90 points for the first season due to filling bankruptcy. You can always wait for the Dutch FA/Achilles '29 to disclose in which division they'll be in next season, but at that point I can also say you're not going to release anything until FM18 is released, so perhaps you should take some liberty with it and find a compromise that will allow you to work on your db without waiting for God knows how long. Perhaps there's also the possibility to indicate in the Editor that the club is currently in Administration, but I'm not sure.

Edited May 14, 2017 by BMNJohn

[BMNJohn]

@Slabbekoorn Any news on the project?

[Slabbekoorn]

13 hours ago, BMNJohn said:

@Slabbekoorn Any news on the project?

Given the KNVB's lackluster of decisions means that the file @Rediablo edited is the final file for FM17.

The KNVB has decided to not add more Jong teams to the piramid and all other changes are also disregarded. The only things they changed are the starting dates of the amateur divisions and if I change those then I'll recieve "season update" problems.

I'll probably make a new one for FM18, hopefully with the help of everyone like this year's version.

[BMNJohn]

On 15/09/2017 at 13:48, Slabbekoorn said:

Given the KNVB's lackluster of decisions means that the file @Rediablo edited is the final file for FM17.

The KNVB has decided to not add more Jong teams to the piramid and all other changes are also disregarded. The only things they changed are the starting dates of the amateur divisions and if I change those then I'll recieve "season update" problems.

I'll probably make a new one for FM18, hopefully with the help of everyone like this year's version.

Oh yeah, I found what was preventing teams from going on holidays. Season periods state that the season ends in July; there's no point in having a season period at all so you can just delete it. The second thing that could cause an issue is the Reserves rules under Netherlands->Reserves Rules category. The dates are problematic: the "Reserves Custom xml" has the league end on June 30th, and the regional divisions on June 1st. Both of which do not match with the main leagues as they almost all finish in early May or a little bit later for the teams in playoffs.

 

Edited September 18, 2017 by BMNJohn

[Slabbekoorn]

3 hours ago, BMNJohn said:

Oh yeah, I found what was preventing teams from going on holidays. Season periods state that the season ends in July; there's no point in having a season period at all so you can just delete it. The second thing that could cause an issue is the Reserves rules under Netherlands->Reserves Rules category. The dates are problematic: the "Reserves Custom xml" has the league end on June 30th, and the regional divisions on June 1st. Both of which do not match with the main leagues as they almost all finish in early May or a little bit later for the teams in playoffs.

 

That's actually great news. Thanks for solving it. I'll update the file in the upcoming week and I'll release the final version then.

[BMNJohn]

14 hours ago, Slabbekoorn said:

That's actually great news. Thanks for solving it. I'll update the file in the upcoming week and I'll release the final version then.

Also, the Eredivisie is set to end on May 20th 2001, but the relegation playoffs start on May 14th. For what is worth, the Jupiler ends on May 11th. It doesn't cause problems in FM however: the game just schedules the playoffs after all leagues are over and still completes them in time. For example, at the end of the 2016/17 season, while the playoffs quarterfinals are supposed to start on May 8th witht he second leg on May 12th, they simply start on May 17th, three days after the Eredivisie league ends. Also, the last match day rule doesn't work at least in the Jupiler league. I tried various things, but I don't know how to fix that.

[Winski]

Hi there! Will there be a FM18 file? I really hope so, as I did enjoy the FM17 file very much

[Slabbekoorn]

On 19-11-2017 at 19:52, Winski said:

Hi there! Will there be a FM18 file? I really hope so, as I did enjoy the FM17 file very much

Yes we'll be doing this again this year. I'm already busy with the leagues but I have less time this time around. Luckily the editor is working better this year where last year one mistake or change in a stage would kill the entire competition so that will save me a lot of time and energy.

I'm aiming to create it until the Hoofdklasse the first time around. But also with a dynamic reservecompetition, a realistic Eredivisie u19 with Top Playoff and Eredivisie/ Eerste Divisie u19 playoff, Eerste divisie u19 and the playoffs, Tweede Divisie A & B u19 and the Derde Divisie A, B, C & D u19, Nike Cup u19, Nike Supercup u19. 

I'll probably be the one that makes the league changes but I'll always appreciate the help figuring stuff out and solving stuff. Hopefully this year I'll be able to link the 6 Districtbekers to qualify for the next year's KNVB Beker as well as the Tweede Divisie period winners that qualify for the KNVB Beker first round because I couldn't get them linked last year.

I don't really have a date set yet but I'll have time next weekend so I'll probably try to do everything in one sit-through/weekend. I already have most of the KNVB rules/files collected anyways.

[Winski]

3 hours ago, Slabbekoorn said:

Yes we'll be doing this again this year. I'm already busy with the leagues but I have less time this time around. Luckily the editor is working better this year where last year one mistake or change in a stage would kill the entire competition so that will save me a lot of time and energy.

I'm aiming to create it until the Hoofdklasse the first time around. But also with a dynamic reservecompetition, a realistic Eredivisie u19 with Top Playoff and Eredivisie/ Eerste Divisie u19 playoff, Eerste divisie u19 and the playoffs, Tweede Divisie A & B u19 and the Derde Divisie A, B, C & D u19, Nike Cup u19, Nike Supercup u19. 

I'll probably be the one that makes the league changes but I'll always appreciate the help figuring stuff out and solving stuff. Hopefully this year I'll be able to link the 6 Districtbekers to qualify for the next year's KNVB Beker as well as the Tweede Divisie period winners that qualify for the KNVB Beker first round because I couldn't get them linked last year.

I don't really have a date set yet but I'll have time next weekend so I'll probably try to do everything in one sit-through/weekend. I already have most of the KNVB rules/files collected anyways.

That sounds great!! Good luck with it, don't rush. It's finished when it's finished. I am really looking forward to this file! 

[Slabbekoorn]

I got a season update day problem again and I can't seem to fix it. The playoffs end nicely in end May and it has the entire month of june where nothing is played but still a season update day problem for 7 July and even 20 July.

Dutch Leagues v0.1 Nov-2017.fmf

Edited November 28, 2017 by Slabbekoorn

[krlenjushka]

is this FM17 file or FM18?

1 hour ago, Slabbekoorn said:

I got a season update day problem again and I can't seem to fix it. The playoffs end nicely in end May and it has the entire month of june where nothing is played but still a season update day problem for 7 July and even 20 July.

Dutch Leagues v0.1 Nov-2017.fmf

 

[Slabbekoorn]

22 minutes ago, krlenjushka said:

is this FM17 file or FM18?

 

18

[krlenjushka]

2 minutes ago, Slabbekoorn said:

18

where is last working fm17 file? i dont have fm18

[Slabbekoorn]

1 minute ago, krlenjushka said:

where is last working fm17 file? i dont have fm18

I created this from scratch again for FM18 so there is no FM17 version anymore

[krlenjushka]

1 minute ago, Slabbekoorn said:

I created this from scratch again for FM18 so there is no FM17 version anymore

same problem again? must be related to your system...

[Slabbekoorn]

2 minutes ago, krlenjushka said:

same problem again? must be related to your system...

Yeah but I don't know why, rounds draw nice on time with a month in between for season update day.

[krlenjushka]

Just now, Slabbekoorn said:

Yeah but I don't know why, rounds draw nice on time with a month in between for season update day.

New nation rules or "add lower"?

[Slabbekoorn]

1 minute ago, krlenjushka said:

New nation rules or "add lower"?

New nation rules because I need more freedom in creating the nation/leagues.

[krlenjushka]

Just now, Slabbekoorn said:

New nation rules because I need more freedom in creating the nation/leagues.

Strange. If i decide to get FM18 i will take a look at your file. Have u used new nation rules on fm17 version?

[Slabbekoorn]

Just now, krlenjushka said:

Strange. If i decide to get FM18 i will take a look at your file. Have u used new nation rules on fm17 version?

Yes, my other dutch leagues file was a new nation rule file and I'm comparing the files now. The one from 17 works but 18 doesn't.

[krlenjushka]

so you managed to fix it for fm17? didnt know...

[Slabbekoorn]

14 hours ago, krlenjushka said:

so you managed to fix it for fm17? didnt know...

Yes I created it again from scratch and probably will have to go back to the drawing board this time around aswell. I double checked the file yesterday and it should've been correct.

[krlenjushka]

try to find which level is problem.

[Slabbekoorn]

2 minutes ago, krlenjushka said:

try to find which level is problem.

There is just one level which is already giving trouble. I'll crosscheck it with another file tonight but it might be easier for me to start over again.

[krlenjushka]

check in game only - maybe some dates are moved for some reason...

[Slabbekoorn]

1 minute ago, krlenjushka said:

check in game only - maybe some dates are moved for some reason...

I checked and it is functioning properly just no season update day. It has one month of nothing in between the last relegation cup match and season update day.

[krlenjushka]

strange. have you tried to run "test competitions" option in editor? there you can see any errors related to fate actions or anything else. just exit FM before you do that.

[Slabbekoorn]

5 minutes ago, krlenjushka said:

strange. have you tried to run "test competitions" option in editor? there you can see any errors related to fate actions or anything else. just exit FM before you do that.

No I haven't, I'll try that tonight!

[Slabbekoorn]

I've started over and I'm pushing all leagues through in one sit. It's going rather quick at the moment. I'll probably make the leagues until the 5e klasse, maybe 6e klasse But everything below 2e klasse will be inactive. I don't have the time to create every club that isn't in the game but other people can add them if they want to continue the leagues and then the leagues themselves will be prepped already for the person that wants to complete the Dutch pyramid.

[krlenjushka]

2 hours ago, Slabbekoorn said:

I've started over and I'm pushing all leagues through in one sit. It's going rather quick at the moment. I'll probably make the leagues until the 5e klasse, maybe 6e klasse But everything below 2e klasse will be inactive. I don't have the time to create every club that isn't in the game but other people can add them if they want to continue the leagues and then the leagues themselves will be prepped already for the person that wants to complete the Dutch pyramid.

create database with all missing clubs in excel and i will help you to transfer data to editor. you can add 2000 clubsin 2 hours if you have data in excel sheet.

[Slabbekoorn]

20 minutes ago, krlenjushka said:

create database with all missing clubs in excel and i will help you to transfer data to editor. you can add 2000 clubsin 2 hours if you have data in excel sheet.

Well well well looks like everyone is in luck then. I'm not at that point yet ofcourse but I'll notify you when I am ready. Only club names or also other stuff?

[Slabbekoorn]

Also if the rest of you know some amateur cups or u19 cups that you'd like to see then post those here aswell.

I'm creating the Provincie Brabant Cup (Noord-Brabant amateurs), Palace Casino Cup (Rotterdam amateurs) and Marveldtoernooi (u19 cup) but I don't know every single of those official friendly cups. So if you know one please let me know.

[krlenjushka]

13 minutes ago, Slabbekoorn said:

Well well well looks like everyone is in luck then. I'm not at that point yet ofcourse but I'll notify you when I am ready. Only club names or also other stuff?

whatever you like. i have 1600 clubs in my excel sheet. Full name, name, 6-letter name, nickname (optional), year founded, city, stadium name, stadium capacity, stadium seating capacity. Kits are hard to implement so i use "randomize kits" option in editor but i will find way to add that also.

[krlenjushka]

kit data are problem - its not problem to add them to editor. i need to find the way to add data to excel. Randomize kits option is good- it randomize kits but every kit have own number. if i manage to make database of that randomize kit numbers-kits - then i can add only 1 number for that record in excel. of course i need to make some catalog so everybody can see kits and choose. like when you look for color for wall painting.

also i must check randomize kits number from fm17 and 18. if numbers are different - then i cant do it this way.

[Slabbekoorn]

On 30-11-2017 at 00:11, krlenjushka said:

kit data are problem - its not problem to add them to editor. i need to find the way to add data to excel. Randomize kits option is good- it randomize kits but every kit have own number. if i manage to make database of that randomize kit numbers-kits - then i can add only 1 number for that record in excel. of course i need to make some catalog so everybody can see kits and choose. like when you look for color for wall painting.

also i must check randomize kits number from fm17 and 18. if numbers are different - then i cant do it this way.

I'll be adding the missing Tweede Klasse teams tonight, I've already gathered the clubs for that division yesterday. Could you explain me how to do this? I've googled it briefly but nobody is sharing this secret.

[krlenjushka]

just make all data in excel and i will help you.

2 hours ago, Slabbekoorn said:

I'll be adding the missing Tweede Klasse teams tonight, I've already gathered the clubs for that division yesterday. Could you explain me how to do this? I've googled it briefly but nobody is sharing this secret.

 

[Slabbekoorn]

2 hours ago, krlenjushka said:

just make all data in excel and i will help you.

 

I have it done.

[krlenjushka]

send data in pm- i want to check

[Slabbekoorn]

12 hours ago, krlenjushka said:

send data in pm- i want to check

Do you need the unique ids for the (newly created) divisions?