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Neil Brock

Football Manager 2017 Official Feedback Thread

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Enjoying the game, except there is one thing totally doing my head in. In this version there is the whole set-play reality which has given the game a huge lift in terms of tactical play and they seem to be important both defensively and attackingly where having the correct players in the positions can have a pretty good effect. But here is where the problem is hampering that reality, and that is that when you change strategies or simply changing player positions muddles up the positioning in the set-plays. This is incredibly annoying because you all of a sudden notice that you have several players standing, for example, on top of each other because one of the players has moved away from his assigned areas. I assign players in these set-play positions mainly because the opposition usually has a set-piece strategy (like crossing to far post for example) and I have someone over there to try and neutralize that opposition threat. That's why it becomes annoying that every little change I make, I have to go into set-plays and use a lot of time to correct all the positions again and again so I don't concede due to the positioning dilemma...

 

I really hope that this gets corrected when the new patch comes out...   

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12 hours ago, roykela said:

You probably have to set it up under Screen Flow, which you can find in the Preferences menu.
Set it to show the results on matchdays and you should be good to go.

Thanks, I'll have a look at that :) I think in previous editions it wasn't necessary to do so

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Finally getting round to digging into this years game.

I see the inability to deal with set piece counter attacks has returned from 16. Players seem to be more concerned with getting back into their positions than with actually snuffing out counters which can lead to some infuriating goals. I recently had one with my right winger taking a corner from the left- the ball turned over and was cleared into my left channel. The left back is in the area having been up for the corner taker and the closest player to the ball is my right winger, fresh from taking the corner. However rather than a simple run back to collect the ball he breaks into a slow jog towards his right wing position, giving the opposition complete freedom to pick up the ball, break three on two and score.

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Press Conferences haven't changed since 2016.

its now 2017 can we not do more with the facilities page? just seeing it in writing is not the same as an actual visual representation.
I'd like too be able too 'add' people to my favourite people list, we all end up with a player or 2 we have loyalty too etc.
Performance of the week award like they do on soccer saturday.
invites too pre-game pundatory - not actually commenting on the game but acknowledgement you attended.

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1 hour ago, karl b said:

Press Conferences haven't changed since 2016.

its now 2017 can we not do more with the facilities page? just seeing it in writing is not the same as an actual visual representation.
I'd like too be able too 'add' people to my favourite people list, we all end up with a player or 2 we have loyalty too etc.
Performance of the week award like they do on soccer saturday.
invites too pre-game pundatory - not actually commenting on the game but acknowledgement you attended.

I love those ideas, especially the pre/post-game punditry. I think answering questions from the presenters could be a great addition towards building your own profile though, they could definitely serve a purpose.

Expanding on press conferences a little bit, I'd like if we could perhaps select a tone for the additional comments. Just something to give it a little more relevance.

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There are some wonderkids that are playing awesome lately in real life like Adrien Rabiot,Amadou Diawara and Ousmane Dembelé. I expect a good improvement on them in the next db update.

I'm impressed how this youngsters are doing in CL especially Rabiot he is playing like a better version of Paul Pogba out there.

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I'm having a strange issue in my Celtic save: it seems that player's values are capped according to the league they play in and it is not possible for a player in the SPL to maintain a value much above 5m, even it they are the top scorer in the champions league and getting bids of 40m. This is kind of problematic because the player thinks that you're giving them an excessive asking price if they want to leave and very frustratingly it seems this value limit does not increase as the reputation of the league increases.

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Players in game value is calculated using a lot of parameters like CA, PA, contract length and value, player and league reputation etc and it will  take some time for it to rise.  It does happen though and I have had players in previous versions in Scotland who have been valued at above 20 million

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13 hours ago, James_Andrew said:

I'm having a strange issue in my Celtic save: it seems that player's values are capped according to the league they play in and it is not possible for a player in the SPL to maintain a value much above 5m, even it they are the top scorer in the champions league and getting bids of 40m. This is kind of problematic because the player thinks that you're giving them an excessive asking price if they want to leave and very frustratingly it seems this value limit does not increase as the reputation of the league increases.

 

12 hours ago, FrazT said:

Players in game value is calculated using a lot of parameters like CA, PA, contract length and value, player and league reputation etc and it will  take some time for it to rise.  It does happen though and I have had players in previous versions in Scotland who have been valued at above 20 million

I think this appraoch needs a slight update. It is obviously very much tied with league reputation but Dinamo Zagreb example says it should be tied more to club than league.  Their top ten transfers 129M euros (12,9) average while the rest of the league top ten transfers amount to 4.7M on average.  http://www.transfermarkt.com/1-hnl/toptransfers/wettbewerb/KR1/plus/1?saison_id=alle&land_id=alle&ausrichtung=&spielerposition_id=alle&altersklasse=&w_s=&zuab=ab

Edited by MBarbaric

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Hello guys, I think this year the game has reached the point of no return, I'm very disappointed.  FM 15 had already reached a very low level, considering the presence of long throw-ins and corners bug that never was solved, by exploiting this bug in fact you could also mark 160 or more goals a season with low / medium teams, totally unreal. Last year I renamed FM 16 "crossing manager", in fact almost all goals came from cross and also this problem wasn't corrected with the March patch.

This year we have a game that at first glance may seem appealing, but after that you know it in detail, appears for what it is, a total disappointment.  It would suffice to note that to solve the problem of too many crosses has decided to lower the accuracy of these instead of lowering the total number of crosses which is much higher than the reality. In fact this year you can see a lot of wrong crosses, especially with tactics with two men to flank, which doing basically two things: 1) obviously make a cross, as well as uncomfortable positions 2) they run senseless and end up crashing over the opposing player. 

There isn't the slightest variety of choices and solutions, to see a through pass with the opposing defense lined we must pray in 350 languages and have a tactic with an offensive midfielder.  With 4-3-3 for example your destiny is to score from a cross, or free kicks or opponent error. Sometimes it scores well on clear ball by the defense, when we rarely see one of our players put in front of the goalkeeper after a through pass, 7 out of 10 times his shot ends up in the mouth of GK. 

As already reported in fact I think the biggest problem of the game is the totally unreal number of turnovers and recovered, which makes matches of this game more like pinball than football. I understand well that it is not easy to develop a perfectly realistic ME, but if the number of recoveries / turnovers exceeds ten times the average of reality, it means that something is wrong there. 

I also believe that we must give more importance to tactics and their inconsistencies, see tactics that work with a very high tempo with the short passes and with none of  players set to attack, is proof of the complete randomness of this game.

Edited by Dave1990

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Are penalty misses as bad in full fat as they are in FMT?  Mark Noble has missed 80 odd % of his penalties and yet IRL you will rarely see him miss.  Certainly if I get 10 penalties in a season I will miss 7 of them it's surely a poor conversion rate compared to real life.

Edited by Sussex Hammer

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I think there's something to improve in the build-up play, especially goalkeepers and defenders and their passing choices.


Before I countinue: I watch most matches in extended highlights mode.


1. Gk has no specific goal kicks instruction. He always kick it long? So it seems. Shouldn't he mix things up a little bit? Also, there is at least one highlight per match showing a long goal kick resulting in a potential quick counter attack (possession lost in midfield, through ball, etc.)


2. GK has "take short kicks to centre backs". There is at least one highlights per match showing a long kick instead, with the defenders staying still just outside the penalty area. I suppose it's because the opponents have the "close down more" and/or "prevent short gk distribution" TI, but the centre backs should at least try and make themselves available for the short option; Instead, they just stood there and wait for God knows what. Also, once he realize that there aren't easy passing options, the gk is supposed to invite his defenders to go forward; then he can take the long kick.


3. "take short kicks to full backs". There is at least one highlight where the keeper passes to the full back, and the full back kick it long, towards the middle of the pitch, for no apparent reason. The final result is the same as above: possession lost, possible counter attack. I think it's the ABC of football: if you really don't know what to do with the ball, don't take risks and kick it out, or clear it to the flank, or pass it short to an unmarked teammate, or pass it back to the keeper... whatever, but definitely not where there are four or five opponents.... If you use a target man things go from bad to worse: do they really expect the poor guy to win each and every aerial challenge?


4. Someone linked to the above: defenders who pass the ball horizontally when under pressure, or clear the ball toward the middle instead of passing it back, or to the flanks (or simply outside the stadium :) ). That's really football 101, the worst mistake a defender could do. "Play out of defence" may mean "take more risks", but not all sorts of stupid, useless risks...

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12 hours ago, Sussex Hammer said:

Are penalty misses as bad in full fat as they are in FMT?  Mark Noble has missed 80 odd % of his penalties and yet IRL you will rarely see him miss.  Certainly if I get 10 penalties in a season I will miss 7 of them it's surely a poor conversion rate compared to real life.

I believe in-game we are currently on a 70%-80% conversion rate. In real-life the conversion rate is closer to 80%. Although of course this is very variable by nation/league.

The guys over in the ME bugs section - https://community.sigames.com/forum/515-match-engine-issues/ - will be able to give you more detail here. If your claim of a 30% conversion rate is accurate I would get that logged for investigation.

Cheers,
Seb.

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Ok so managed to finish a couple of full seasons- some more detailed feedback...

 

First off I much prefer this version to 16- the match engine is much more varied and the 'far post tap-in' is much less prevalent. 

 

The negatives though...

Defensive AI still seems pretty suspect. Centre backs are prone to charging out of position for no real reason leaving massive holes for midfield runners to exploit. Particualrly frustrating when they rush out to close down a player already being marked.

I'm baffled as to how the ridiculous amount of 'crosses that keepers have to save' is still there. I see one or two most games, IRL they are much rarer.

Goalkeeper positioning is still a bit off- they have a habit of saving balls going well wide and the animations often make it look like they're diving under the ball.

Assistant and coaching advice is still pretty useless. The pre match advice always seems to involve ripping up your tactic and creating something new no matter how successful you are. 

Press conferences are still a massive drag and haven't changed in years.

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2 hours ago, Seb Wassell said:

I believe in-game we are currently on a 70%-80% conversion rate. In real-life the conversion rate is closer to 80%. Although of course this is very variable by nation/league.

The guys over in the ME bugs section - https://community.sigames.com/forum/515-match-engine-issues/ - will be able to give you more detail here. If your claim of a 30% conversion rate is accurate I would get that logged for investigation.

Cheers,
Seb.


Which can be a data issue, a match engine issue, but also simply random chance (or a combination). I hope the latter is taken into account (not saying it isn't), but similar to injuries, there's only that one extreme end ever getting reported, as the other extreme doesn't lead to frustration. I'm personally not happy the way injuries are treated admittedly, as this is a far cry from Paul Collyer's old rule of the thumb of 3-4 first squad members out on average during any time, but then this isn't "my" game and my wish come true [if only people would realize that all that "balancing"goes two ways.... opponents barely much miss out on their key players too :D ]. Back on pens, there is teams that convert down to 1 in 6 every other year. Doing a "Leverkusen" if you will, who in the current season with almost the same takers as before suddenly miss like everything (not converting 8 in 12, to be precise).
http://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/bayer-04-leverkusen/elfmeterstatistik/verein/15/reldata//plus/1
http://www.myfootballfacts.com/Premier_League_Penalty_Statistics.html

One of the reasons why researching penalty related attributes must be the most unthankful tasks in player research. The sample size is just absolutely tiny -- and that's for the regular takers! To simplify, if the average conversion were about 80%, that is an average chance of not converting it of 20% for every single attempt. Would be interesting in which way FM treats shoot outs differently exactly... and how scorelines/match states are taken into account during normal time. Historically, it seems the shoot-outs that were more prone to crazy dynamics, like the endless ones going into the 10-20 kicks each range with some regularity, and for FM 2017 the opposite was reported too.

Edited by Svenc

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2 hours ago, sirgiorgio said:

I think there's something to improve in the build-up play, especially goalkeepers and defenders and their passing choices.


Before I countinue: I watch most matches in extended highlights mode.


1. Gk has no specific goal kicks instruction. He always kick it long? So it seems. Shouldn't he mix things up a little bit? Also, there is at least one highlight per match showing a long goal kick resulting in a potential quick counter attack (possession lost in midfield, through ball, etc.)


2. GK has "take short kicks to centre backs". There is at least one highlights per match showing a long kick instead, with the defenders staying still just outside the penalty area. I suppose it's because the opponents have the "close down more" and/or "prevent short gk distribution" TI, but the centre backs should at least try and make themselves available for the short option; Instead, they just stood there and wait for God knows what. Also, once he realize that there aren't easy passing options, the gk is supposed to invite his defenders to go forward; then he can take the long kick.


3. "take short kicks to full backs". There is at least one highlight where the keeper passes to the full back, and the full back kick it long, towards the middle of the pitch, for no apparent reason. The final result is the same as above: possession lost, possible counter attack. I think it's the ABC of football: if you really don't know what to do with the ball, don't take risks and kick it out, or clear it to the flank, or pass it short to an unmarked teammate, or pass it back to the keeper... whatever, but definitely not where there are four or five opponents.... If you use a target man things go from bad to worse: do they really expect the poor guy to win each and every aerial challenge?


4. Someone linked to the above: defenders who pass the ball horizontally when under pressure, or clear the ball toward the middle instead of passing it back, or to the flanks (or simply outside the stadium :) ). That's really football 101, the worst mistake a defender could do. "Play out of defence" may mean "take more risks", but not all sorts of stupid, useless risks...

You have perfectly described one of the biggest weaknesses of the game. As already reported in the Match Engine Thread one of the biggest problems is the average of turnovers / recovered into the match, which reaches extreme levels, 10 times the average in real football. This is due to the fact that often the defenders kicking it long for no apparent reason and the game turns into pinball, and who recovers more second balls wins the game. 

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25 minutes ago, Dave1990 said:

You have perfectly described one of the biggest weaknesses of the game. As already reported in the Match Engine Thread one of the biggest problems is the average of turnovers / recovered into the match, which reaches extreme levels, 10 times the average in real football. This is due to the fact that often the defenders kicking it long for no apparent reason and the game turns into pinball, and who recovers more second balls wins the game. 


Careful not to mix this up. This is the Opta definition of an interception:

This is where a player intentionally intercepts a pass by moving into the line of the intended ball.
http://optasports.com/news-area/blog-optas-event-definitions.aspx

FM counts interceptions+1 pretty much every time the ball changes feet... er teams, in whichever way, not merely intelligent "intercepting" moves of players which are counted by Opta and similar. I.e. lose balls getting picked up by the team who wasn't on the ball before, passes going astray and reaching the opposition, etc. You are correct that any bad decision can lead to an additionally turnover of the ball to the opposition. But the very high number of interceptions is in big parts due to how FM defines an interception, which is different to stats outlets (and needs changing to be comparable).

Whilst it doesn't show as drastic, it is comparable to the possession stat. The possession stat on FM is not the same as what you see on stat sites. In FM, possession is measured with a chess clock method, i.e. the time a team has on the ball is counted and measured. Opta et all go by the number of passes, time doesn't factor into it. The definition of tackles, and sometimes even shots counted as such, has also seen reworks throughout the years. Don't get me started on the CCCs, though...... :idiot::seagull::D

Edited by Svenc

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Can we interact with other managers or have we to wait until we're asked about them in the press? I seem to remember a historic addition where it was possible to interact.

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Just now, Svenc said:


Careful not to mix this up. This is the Opta definition of an interception:

This is where a player intentionally intercepts a pass by moving into the line of the intended ball.
http://optasports.com/news-area/blog-optas-event-definitions.aspx

FM counts interceptions+1 pretty much every time the ball changes feet... er teams, in whichever way, i.e. lose balls getting picked up by opposition instead, passes reaching opposition, etc.

Good point, here it is explained everything in detail: 

It's true that an interception in reality is considered differently from FM, but such a big difference compared to reality isn't normal. In reality there aren't matches with 272 possession changes, however this often happens in the game. And we don't talk about an acceptable difference, but unfortunately huge.

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34 minutes ago, Dave1990 said:

Good point, here it is explained everything in detail: 

It's true that an interception in reality is considered differently from FM, but such a big difference compared to reality isn't normal. In reality there aren't matches with 272 possession changes, however this often happens in the game. And we don't talk about an acceptable difference, but unfortunately huge.


Could be, I don't have any numbers on that. :) You can get that down to barely much interceptions with extreme tactics, as you can have well over 70% of possession a match and pass completion rates of like 90%, which is down to an ME inherent weakness too. Absolutely no belting of the ball much. Overall, those numbers don't look that absurd to me though. Not encouraging you to bet, but if you got to bet365 and check their live section and click on a running game, you will see the number of "attacks" started by any side (not sure if there's another site doing this for a wider public). It's quite early in the evening, but currently there is say a match going on between Aswan and Petrojet. It's still 10 minutes left on the clock. Each of those sides has started close to 100 attacks so far give or take. Assuming for an attack to start the ball has to be turned over to the other side in whichever way (which is what FM counts), that doesn't look that huge off.

Was just saying that there is the engine and play and decisions... and then there is the stats. How they are defined is wholly down to SI. And sometimes they carry similar monikers despite measuring things differently than everybody else. Bloody Brits. :D All of that is either way a totally valid criticism! Totally backing you on this. In particular... how long has it been since SI have teamed up with Prozone?

Edited by Svenc

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28 minutes ago, Svenc said:


Could be, I don't have any numbers on that. :) You can get that down to barely much interceptions with extreme tactics, as you can have well over 70% of possession a match and pass completion rates of like 90%, which is down to an ME inherent weakness too. Absolutely no belting of the ball much. Overall, those numbers don't look that absurd to me though. Not encouraging you to bet, but if you got to bet365 and check their live section and click on a running game, you will see the number of "attacks" started by any site (not sure if there's another side doing this for a wider public). It's quite early in the evening, but currently there is say a match going on between Aswan and Petrojet. It's still 10 minutes left on the clock. Each of those sides has started close to 100 attacks so far give or take. Assuming for an attack to start the ball has to be turned over to the other side in whichever way (which is what FM counts), that doesn't look that huge off.

Was just saying that there is the engine and play and decisions... and then there is the stats. How they are defined is wholly down to SI.  How they are defined is wholly down to SI. And sometimes they carry similar monikers despite measuring things differently as everybody else. Bloody Brits. :D

I understand what you mean, but you have to consider one important thing:  the stat "Gained possession" in the game doesn't include in any way the passes that finish off the pitch or shots saves from the goalkeeper, which instead affect the possession changes in reality. This means that the possession changes are even greater in the game. It's true that the statistics don't always tell the whole story,  but their careful observation is the only way we have to try to improve this game :D
 

Edited by Dave1990

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On ‎23‎/‎02‎/‎2017 at 13:11, Seb Wassell said:

I believe in-game we are currently on a 70%-80% conversion rate. In real-life the conversion rate is closer to 80%. Although of course this is very variable by nation/league.

The guys over in the ME bugs section - https://community.sigames.com/forum/515-match-engine-issues/ - will be able to give you more detail here. If your claim of a 30% conversion rate is accurate I would get that logged for investigation.

Cheers,
Seb.

Thanks Seb.  Well taking my second season so far in my latest save the penalties have gone like this.  This is both Premier League and Cup Fixtures.

Game 1 - Mark Noble missed     Game 2 - Saido Berahino missed    Game 6 - Andre Ayew scored    Game 7 - Opponent missed    Game 8 - Opponent missed    Game 11 - Mark Noble missed    Game 13 - Mark Noble missed, Game 33 - Davy Klaassen scored    Game 39 - Andre Ayew missed.

So far that means my team has taken 7 penalties and missed 5.

That's all the penalties so far I think after 20 games.  To be fair it seems opponents miss as well, generally by saves but I have seen a couple hit the woodwork and one hit Row Z.  I'll take a look at my first season at some stage.

Stats - Noble - Penalties 18, Composure 15, Finishing 8,         Berahino - Penalties 15, Composure 15, Finishing 16,        Ayew - Penalties 16, Composure 14, Finishing 15.

Not sure if it's Nobles finishing that lets him down in this version but having a penalty stat of 18 and finishing of 8 seems a bit bizarre.

As I said in previous saves the conversion rate has been pretty poor as well.

 

Edited by Sussex Hammer

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I take it that wingers\fullbacks crossing straight into the goalkeeper and getting a corner several times a match ("X certainly didn't mean that!") is a known ME issue? Are SI looking to fix this?

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I still feel fairly strongly that morale has too outsized an effect on the game, and produces extremely streaky results.

I am currently managing Bayer Leverkusen in Germany.  In my first season, we must have won 9 of our first 10 matches and were around 11 points clear of Bayern halfway through the season.  Then a couple of bad results, and the entire season tanked, we didn't win a single one of our last 7 matches and finished 4th.

Now in the 2nd season, we continued our horrible form, winning only 1 of our first 8 and scoring only 4 goals in that time.  I was shocked not to be sacked.  Then I had a team meeting.  Morale rose dramatically.  Now we are dominating.  Won 6 straight, and just beat Gladbach 4-0 and AC Milan 5-0 in the Champions League.  Keep in mind I have not made any significant changes to tactics or personnel selection here.

I know mods say morale only has a small effect on attributes, but maybe since morale of the whole team tends to move in lockstep, the aggregation of all those reduced attributes across all those players really has major effects.  After all, for a possession to end in a goal, a lot of things have to go right.  If any one of them doesn't, the possession is over.

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On 25.2.2017 at 11:45, bar333 said:

I take it that wingers\fullbacks crossing straight into the goalkeeper and getting a corner several times a match ("X certainly didn't mean that!") is a known ME issue? Are SI looking to fix this?

I hope so ...

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On 2/25/2017 at 10:45, bar333 said:

I take it that wingers\fullbacks crossing straight into the goalkeeper and getting a corner several times a match ("X certainly didn't mean that!") is a known ME issue? Are SI looking to fix this?

Has it been raised as a bug yet?  If not, then maybe not.  If so, then yes.  Always worth adding more examples too.

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If I am managing a club, and they agree to pay for my coaching course, if I leave the club, do I still get to complete the qualification? 
 

I'm managing a 2nd division club who are paying for me to do UEFA Pro but I fancy leaving in the summer, and my qualification won't be complete until November. Just curious. Thanks.

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31 minutes ago, forameuss said:

Has it been raised as a bug yet?  If not, then maybe not.  If so, then yes.  Always worth adding more examples too.

Is it? I mean, it happens to me in every game, several times. Low cross to the near post, GK "saves" it for a corner, commentary goes all "Whoa, he didn't mean that!". I think if it happens so often to me SI must know about it at this point.

I guess it's possible it won't really be fixed if it hasn't been so far. I think FM17 has the best match engine out of the recent iterations, but we all know that every year the ME must have something weird like that going on, last year it was fullbacks generating insane ratings with assists via crosses to the far post, this one isn't so bad in comparison.

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25 minutes ago, Candre168 said:

If I am managing a club, and they agree to pay for my coaching course, if I leave the club, do I still get to complete the qualification? 
 

I'm managing a 2nd division club who are paying for me to do UEFA Pro but I fancy leaving in the summer, and my qualification won't be complete until November. Just curious. Thanks.

Yes the money is paid when you start so the course will complete even if you change clubs.

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On 23/02/2017 at 21:56, Sussex Hammer said:

Thanks Seb.  Well taking my second season so far in my latest save the penalties have gone like this.  This is both Premier League and Cup Fixtures.

Game 1 - Mark Noble missed     Game 2 - Saido Berahino missed    Game 6 - Andre Ayew scored    Game 7 - Opponent missed    Game 8 - Opponent missed    Game 11 - Mark Noble missed    Game 13 - Mark Noble missed, Game 33 - Davy Klaassen scored    Game 39 - Andre Ayew missed.

So far that means my team has taken 7 penalties and missed 5.

That's all the penalties so far I think after 20 games.  To be fair it seems opponents miss as well, generally by saves but I have seen a couple hit the woodwork and one hit Row Z.  I'll take a look at my first season at some stage.

Stats - Noble - Penalties 18, Composure 15, Finishing 8,         Berahino - Penalties 15, Composure 15, Finishing 16,        Ayew - Penalties 16, Composure 14, Finishing 15.

Not sure if it's Nobles finishing that lets him down in this version but having a penalty stat of 18 and finishing of 8 seems a bit bizarre.

As I said in previous saves the conversion rate has been pretty poor as well.

 

I've noticed similar myself with my team hardly ever scoring penalties, and penalty shootouts can be even worse, had one occassion where the shootout ended 3-2 after 20 penalties, but what is strange is none of the penalty misses were actually misses ie wide/high, hit post or crossbar, they were all saved by the keepers (same as in normal matches, they were saved rather than missed).

Edited by pompeyfan

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Why cant you save your Advanced Set up anymore? When you restart it reverts to the two leagues and you have to re select each league again while trying not to go over the recommended database level once the game has loaded  

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1 hour ago, Garethjohn79 said:

Why cant you save your Advanced Set up anymore? When you restart it reverts to the two leagues and you have to re select each league again while trying not to go over the recommended database level once the game has loaded  

I complained about this a long while back and was told it will be looked into, but its still the same thing. If you load up 20 or more nations on each new save, it can be quite the pain to set them all up.

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I just completed my UEFA Pro licence, and all my managerial attributes increased except for defending, which went down by 1 point? Why is this? I pride my teams on being solid at the back, indeed this year we have by far the best defence record in the league despite having the second lowest wage budget.

Is it because my manager was not assuming defensive training responsibilities? I cannot figure it out.

Edited by Candre168

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On 26/02/2017 at 04:39, jujigatame said:

I still feel fairly strongly that morale has too outsized an effect on the game, and produces extremely streaky results.

I am currently managing Bayer Leverkusen in Germany.  In my first season, we must have won 9 of our first 10 matches and were around 11 points clear of Bayern halfway through the season.  Then a couple of bad results, and the entire season tanked, we didn't win a single one of our last 7 matches and finished 4th.

Now in the 2nd season, we continued our horrible form, winning only 1 of our first 8 and scoring only 4 goals in that time.  I was shocked not to be sacked.  Then I had a team meeting.  Morale rose dramatically.  Now we are dominating.  Won 6 straight, and just beat Gladbach 4-0 and AC Milan 5-0 in the Champions League.  Keep in mind I have not made any significant changes to tactics or personnel selection here.

I know mods say morale only has a small effect on attributes, but maybe since morale of the whole team tends to move in lockstep, the aggregation of all those reduced attributes across all those players really has major effects.  After all, for a possession to end in a goal, a lot of things have to go right.  If any one of them doesn't, the possession is over.

Not only player's morale there is also players or team form which I believe has much more impact on the match result. If I won a game the chance of winning the next game is high and gets higher for subsequent win and then after reaching a certain win the game try to stop you from winning more. It simply feel like some hard coded pattern to enforced realistic football results. And this is same for losing or drawing, very streaky results you either win consecutively or you draw or lose consecutively. Changing tactic, players and etc etc even editing the player's morale has not much impact on the match result. I have experiment many many times after I lost a game I try to reload multiple times with different tactic, players and even making all player's morale to superb and in most of the attempts I'll still lose again. BUT I believe if somehow I can edit the player's form or the team's form the result will immediately changed. My conclusion is the match result calculation depends way too much on the players or team form more than tactic, player's quality and etc etc which made it so predictable and boring.

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Just now, edk77 said:

Not only player's morale there is also players or team form which I believe has much more impact on the match result. If I won a game the chance of winning the next game is high and gets higher for subsequent win and then after reaching a certain win the game try to stop you from winning more. It simply feel like some hard coded pattern to enforced realistic football results. And this is same for losing or drawing, very streaky results you either win consecutively or you draw or lose consecutively. Changing tactic, players and etc etc even editing the player's morale has not much impact on the match result. I have experiment many many times after I lost a game I try to reload multiple times with different tactic, players and even making all player's morale to superb and in most of the attempts I'll still lose again. BUT I believe if somehow I can edit the player's form or the team's form the result will immediately changed. My conclusion is the match result calculation depends way too much on the players or team form more than tactic, player's quality and etc etc which made it so predictable and boring

This isn't true at all.

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