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Football Manager 2017 Official Feedback Thread


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15 minutes ago, Robhug said:

Holy bejesus mother of christ why was this put in?

please oh please add a 'dont show this (tedious) message again' option

I'd quite like to see it just once. Never once happened in my game yet. Must be a higher league thing. 

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Firstly any ideas why on this thread when you press "reply to topic" you end up having a quote that you have to delete?  It's usually the previous quote.....?

Anyway.  Love the fact that direct free kicks seem to go in this year.  Scored on with a deflection off the wall which was nice.  Nice touch with the foam spray at free kicks as well.

Re graphics capability.  Last year I ran on very high with no problem with a NVIDIA GeForce GTX 570.  This year friendlies are ok but the graphics are very juddery if the match is being played in a big stadium.  It runs fine on medium and can't see anything missing between medium and very high so was just wondering what are the differences graphics wise between medium and very high?  Just intrigued...

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15 minutes ago, Sussex Hammer said:

Firstly any ideas why on this thread when you press "reply to topic" you end up having a quote that you have to delete?  It's usually the previous quote.....?

This happens if you went to make a comment before by quoting someone but didn't submit it. It saves your comment kind of like a draft mode, however it is only stored on the device you first typed the comment on. 

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Quite happy with this year ME, I felt the first Beta was slightly more 'entertaining' with more dribbling from strikers (which I liked and hope to see more often) but probably too many goals scored in general. I'd say I'm seeing a bit too many long shots (both from my players and opponents) regardless of instructions or PPM's so personally would like this to be toned down a little. Though probably for the first time in years long shots tend to hit the target are actually quite effective.

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Started a few different saves and overall I'm impressed with it this year. I converted to Touch/Classic a few years ago but the full fat version feels a lot more smoother and easier to handle this time around. 

I can't add many more comments to what's already been said, but one thing I've noticed is that it seems more difficult to attract a good player this time around. I've had a bit of a play around with it in terms of money and reputation changes, and it's much different to previous years. It's not necessarily a bad thing. Just something I've noticed. 

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Recurring problem from previous editions that I really hoped would be fixed. 

Started sunday league rep, lowest badges - job with curzon ashton predicted near bottom of national north. Sit 17th in December and apply for Torquay job in the divison above. Get it even though only promising to match avoid relegation objective

I would really love it for there to be a starting rep where you actually have to earn the right to move up. It makes the start of any career save pointless when you can land jobs in the not-bottom division without proving yourself in the bottom one.

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I've played less than a dozen matches in my current save and have already seen Juan Mata put a penalty wide of the post. And in an earlier save, the Zlatan hit one against the post.

On the other hand, the number of own-goals by goalkeepers is becoming an issue, especially the ones where they deflect the ball into the net at truly weird angles.

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55 minutes ago, warlock said:

I've played less than a dozen matches in my current save and have already seen Juan Mata put a penalty wide of the post. And in an earlier save, the Zlatan hit one against the post.

Good.

[Edit]

On the other hand, that suggests that my young Icelandic GK's are better at taking pens then Ibra and Mata. :lol:

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2 hours ago, Jimbokav1971 said:

I am half-way through my 7th season and I still haven't seen a penalty miss the target. Saved yes. Missed no.

Come on guys. This stuff should be much easier to fix than other stuff in the ME. :thdn:

Worth logging examples in the ME issues forum.  :thup:

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3 hours ago, Per Annum said:

Recurring problem from previous editions that I really hoped would be fixed. 

Started sunday league rep, lowest badges - job with curzon ashton predicted near bottom of national north. Sit 17th in December and apply for Torquay job in the divison above. Get it even though only promising to match avoid relegation objective

I would really love it for there to be a starting rep where you actually have to earn the right to move up. It makes the start of any career save pointless when you can land jobs in the not-bottom division without proving yourself in the bottom one.

Played about Ten games for Torquay, taking them from 17th to 15th... Apply for the ADO Den Haag job (12th in Eredivise) and despite only creating my manager 9 months earlier with Sunday League rep and a 15/39 win rate all in non-league I'm the bookies favorite according to the press question (albeit on the job centre page).

Edit - at least its looking like I might not get the crazy high jobs I'm being linked with, just got rejected by Plymouth without interview. At least my Torquay team is on the up thanks to the 35 players I have on loan with 0% wage contributions....

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The decline of the 4-4-2 (of the FM kind)


A cross to fix

FM 2016 had a couple of issues with defending in wide areas. This affected some player more, others less so, as inevitably the case given the many permutations in basic formations (own and opponent), role and duty combinatinos (own and opponent), team instructions, player traits and more. Likely due to huge knock-ons any big overhaul can produce, SI announced with the final patch of FM 2016 that they would postpone this for another release. As documented and witnessed in the following report by others early on, it seems part of the measure to improve defending of wide areas, was SI making the wide players to position wider in generally on FM 2017-- often making it look as if the wide midfielders would be set to outright man to man mark the opposition wide players. They would barely ever shift inside to close the central spaces / help the centrally players.

 

Forwards not tracking

As you may have picked up, central forwards in FM barely get involved in defending. This has been the case ever since at least FM 2015 (final patch). At best, they may close down a deep midfielder who gets the ball every once in a while. But once transitioning from attack to fully-on defense is over, they simply sit in front of the opposition centre backs right at the half-way line. As a consequence, in any 4-4-2 variant or similar, the two centrally midfielders have always been vulnerable / prone to getting overloaded some. If none of the central forwards much tracks back, they're the only guys in central positions shielding the defensive line. Once they're overloaded, an opponent would be through on that.


Fix + forwards not tracking = midfield collapse ?

On FM 2015/2016, whilst wide midfielders would be naturally pick up wide players if they entered their zone, they would still shift inside and help out in central areas too, in particular the player on the opposing side of the pitch of where the ball carrier is.

 

ApFRfAE.jpg

On FM 2016 due to the apparently overhaul talked about in the first paragraph, wide midfielders barely if at all do so anymore. This was from a pkm uploaded by someone in the bugs forum, showing how West Brom were dismantled and completely outplayed by Millwall first season in their 4-4-2. Millwall have a central midfield three (DM-CM-CM), which is fairly common in the game, and completely control the pitch as neither do the wide midfielders ever shift inside, nor (as previous) does any of the central forwards put much of a foot in. The DM is able to control the pitch pretty much as he pleases, and the three of them can outplay Brom's two with comical ease during each spell of possession.

 

rh7fXKC.jpg


In a 4-2-3-1 narrow or similar, packing central areas, this looks even more pronounced. There may be a borderline exploit of the 4-4-2 as in FM to be found. After all, there can be multiple players who are never challenged in the CM-DM strata and can control the pitch and possession with comically ease. Or, as in this case (first screenshot), successfully overload the midfield duo and force one of the CBs to step up and challenge instead, which breaks the defensive line for good.

JvPpwky.jpg

mBPQia8.jpg

Now as a human player, you have a workaround. You can make forwards tracking back by fielding them in the AMC slot. If you'Re like me, you would have always put one of the forwards to man mark the deepest opposition player before, as that is the little bugger that naturally makes opponents control the pitch. The Busquets of FM, if you want. However, AI doesn't do this from my experience, and it's always been unfortunate ever since that forwards are hardcoded in a way that makes them not track back much at all (compare that to Atletico -- or almost any side in real football who lines up with multiple forwards from my experience -- on older editions of FM too, it seems the deeper one was automatically tracking back, and only the more advanced one staying forward to hold up the ball once things were cleared). In combination with the wide midfielder overhaul, 4-4-2 / multiple forward formations seem a real issue for AI in particular anyways now. There may be evidence that it is for players likewise.




The Ugly Game


I did find it not that hard to hold onto a slender lead when going more cautious in previous iterations before, but going with outright extremes (contain mentality, additionally players staying behind the ball on d-duty) may be a tad effective after the adjustments in terms of defending in terms of clean-sheeting. Though that better opposition in the league finds its ways goal-side regardless looks encouraging (it is typically them who would play more attackingly from the kick-off rather than upon conceding only), and the brats at Anfield spoiled by my predecessor voicing their displeasure is a nice touch too. FTR, that quick save did not go well in the end and ended in conceding some regardless whilst naturally being no threat up front, but that is the biggest sequence of nill nill draws I've ever seen on the game. Some memories of AI opponents being a tad cautious overall on, I think, FM 2012, oft not advancing enough men to challenge packed defenses much. But then, most of the opponents here likely didn't target anything but a draw, and as players demonstrate time and time again, lacking that movement and inevitably risk taking of say having a back that marches all the way made for an added struggle to parking the bus before, even against lesser defenders. The league was a tad different. And in any case, you'd have to be nuts if you were ever needed to complain about "too good" defending. :D That is if you care about defending as I do.
0aKKmre.jpg
4uVxAVO.jpg

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On to my opinion of the game.... what can I say.. wow this is a breath of fresh air. I didnt realise how poor an experience 16 was until now. Dont get me wrong I enjoyed 16 but I kind of felt detached from the FM world you are supposed to be a part of. 

 

FM17 really makes me feel like I am part of that world and I think the social aspect keeps you in touch- the inbox overhaul I feel has helped. Yes I agree the social part is repetative but you get a feel for a connection with the fans and the club a little more.

 

I hope that Miles and the team see this, I've tweeted Miles already today and I hope that the team get more and more positive comments because in my book so far they will be well deserved! :applause:

There will be many things ive yet to discover in my 4 hours of play but I will be sure to come back and cover them!

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11 hours ago, Per Annum said:

Recurring problem from previous editions that I really hoped would be fixed. 

Started sunday league rep, lowest badges - job with curzon ashton predicted near bottom of national north. Sit 17th in December and apply for Torquay job in the divison above. Get it even though only promising to match avoid relegation objective

I would really love it for there to be a starting rep where you actually have to earn the right to move up. It makes the start of any career save pointless when you can land jobs in the not-bottom division without proving yourself in the bottom one.

We did at one point, but then when a user with a very low rep got sacked, there was no other club they could get a job at so it was essentially 'game over'. It had to be tweaked so no user could ever face a scenario where they could never get a job. 

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Personally I'd prefer that , permadeath if you will. I'd even prefer the inherently unrealistic fix of being forced to sit unemployed until being offered a job at a club promoted to lowest active league the next summer than how it is now.

I can fully accept that such a permadeath setting would have to be optional and marked super clearly as to its effects and even then would probably get enough complaints to not be worth si Time if out the box .

What about a Gibraltar style official dlc for super low starting rep. Problem with using  IGE , if that even lets editt own rep , is that I don't ever want to to use it and we can't test for correct numbers like si CAn

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1 hour ago, Per Annum said:

Personally I'd prefer that , permadeath if you will. I'd even prefer the inherently unrealistic fix of being forced to sit unemployed until being offered a job at a club promoted to lowest active league the next summer than how it is now.

I can fully accept that such a permadeath setting would have to be optional and marked super clearly as to its effects and even then would probably get enough complaints to not be worth si Time if out the box .

What about a Gibraltar style official dlc for super low starting rep. Problem with using  IGE , if that even lets editt own rep , is that I don't ever want to to use it and we can't test for correct numbers like si CAn

Best to raise it within the feature requests forum. 

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1 hour ago, Wells said:

Come on really, Aguero getting a hatrick and someone says he didn't have a good game, nonsense one.

Social feed needs to be improved, they have got it totally wrong in my opinion, that's not the way it works IRL.

I agree with this. Even when a club like Crystal Palace becomes champion, there's always one who says 'he doesn't really feel the festivities'.

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1 hour ago, Wells said:

Come on really, Aguero getting a hatrick and someone says he didn't have a good game, nonsense one.

Social feed needs to be improved, they have got it totally wrong in my opinion, that's not the way it works IRL.

 

35 minutes ago, Zek said:

I agree with this. Even when a club like Crystal Palace becomes champion, there's always one who says 'he doesn't really feel the festivities'.

Seems like a perfect microcosm of social media to me.  You'll always get the one you'd cross the street to avoid.

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Not a big deal this really, however just curious to hear if anyone else is noticing too many mis-hit crosses forcing the keeper into a save? Happened at least once in pretty much every match I've played so far pre-season

 

Note* I am playing on 2D Classic. - Unsure if that would make a difference anyhow.

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8 minutes ago, Reedy_1988 said:

Not a big deal this really, however just curious to hear if anyone else is noticing too many mis-hit crosses forcing the keeper into a save? Happened at least once in pretty much every match I've played so far pre-season

 

Note* I am playing on 2D Classic. - Unsure if that would make a difference anyhow.

There's a bunch of them. That and defenders attempting wrong-footed backpasses to the goalie which results in corner kicks. A bunch of those as well.

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Hello! Help plz? Trying to activate another countries divisions its got  4. Second division has 2 sub divisions which i managed to do but when i got to test rules it asks me to set the a higher division level on the the third division which is actually lower than second ???

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1 hour ago, ertinio said:

Hello! Help plz? Trying to activate another countries divisions its got  4. Second division has 2 sub divisions which i managed to do but when i got to test rules it asks me to set the a higher division level on the the third division which is actually lower than second ???

This is a feedback thread... try the editor forums?

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I think I'm experiencing a bug, but I want to be sure:

About seven members of my first team are deeply upset that I haven't strengthened the squad since promotion. Which is fine; they're mostly right (but we also didn't really need to and couldn't afford to). But on the Promises screen it's been stuck at "1 day left" (or whatever) for more than 10 days now, and I haven't had the chance to talk to any of the players in question.

Is this working as intended? Because if not, it seems like their morale is going to be permanently tanked. Which doesn't bode well for this save!

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@Svenc That is a very nice post. I am btw. heavily disappointed how modern 4-4-2 ala Atlético (or Villarreal under Marcelino) is presented in the game engine. There are so many setback in trying to play the modern 4-4-2 that it is unbeliavable. Yet instead of concentrating on the core of the game we get pointless features every year :(.

At least bring back wobble SI! I want to instruct my players how to position themselves defensively. Every manager is able to do this IRL!!

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20 minutes ago, Los_Culés said:

At least bring back wobble SI! I want to instruct my players how to position themselves defensively. Every manager is able to do this IRL!!

You can already do this through the formation, position, role, duty & instructions.

No manager IRL tells his players to play in two different positions.

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6 minutes ago, Cougar2010 said:

You can already do this through the formation, position, role, duty & instructions.

No manager IRL tells his players to play in two different positions.

This is sooo untrue.

You can not defend as Atlético do as defending as 4-4-2 in the game is totally robotic. You can not for example defend more as 4-2-2-2 further up the pitch and more as 4-4-2 nearer to your goal, you can not instruct your fullbacks to stay wider when defending than your wide mids etc., it is difficult to control the central axis because wide mids do not defend as narrowly as they do under Simeone....and this is just horizontal compactness, about the vertical one it is better not to talk at all.

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20 minutes ago, Stewart91 said:

Five games into the first season. I have Liverpool at home. They started well top of the league and then this. I haven't edited anything. Some exploit in the ME I have unwittingly used?

Spurs_zpsfsq54hnw.png

 

Your unconventional formation will certainly take advantage of that space in the centre of the final third I would have thought.

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5 hours ago, Los_Culés said:

@Svenc That is a very nice post. I am btw. heavily disappointed how modern 4-4-2 ala Atlético (or Villarreal under Marcelino) is presented in the game engine. There are so many setback in trying to play the modern 4-4-2 that it is unbeliavable. Yet instead of concentrating on the core of the game we get pointless features every year :(.


Additional customization is always nice. Maybe you remember on FM 2015 where duty sort of was linked to tracking back behavior before it was patched out. I.e. support duty AML/AMR/AMC and FWD did track back, attack duties not so much. Naturally that was a royally conflict, because the duties were also linked in possession to attacking runs, etc. Caused all kinds of weird stuff with AI teams too though.

Speaking about, the bigger issue is that this hurts the world sim at large. That's basically top flight teams getting d*cked around all match by third division opposition simply because of the formations AI managers pick which may leave up to several central midfielders controlling the the central areas pretty much unmarked and unchallenged all through -- not much like football, is it. The 4-4-2 is a fairly common AI formation, and 3 central midfielders, well that's basically all over the place. Can't imagine Paul Collyer hasn't already picked up on this, as he watches stuff very thoroughly. So eventually there will be something fixed in that regard I reckon.

That aside, overall it's one of the better looking engines that have been in there, the purely visual 3d overhauls lend an additionally touch to it as well. Whether it's the best yet, that can only be a long-term assessment to be made. :-)

 

edit: INJURIES. THOSE DARN INJURIES. Going into October on multiple saves and having not one side in the whole English tiers of football missing more than 6-7 first teamers.  Up to 3/4 (!!!!!) of the EPL missing no more than 3 of them on each of those saves. This is clearly SI giving in to the yearly whinges, rather than recreating squad management fully proper, but they already know that themselves. :-P (Managing Arsenal and having added this, I'm expecting to be hit by the FM Injury Gods any minute now, but then I always do whenever I post about how insanely off it is too suggest the game generally were heavy on injuries -- if the target is football rather than Fifa Pro Evolution Actua Action Soccer, mind. Actually, it's only Sakho out. Yeah, right.) :D

Out of interest, was this specifically toned down again for a previous patch?

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Has anyone had the board interaction about manager compo reduction from another club?
I just had it for the second time and the board agreed, but then it said application unsuccessful.

Has anyone got it to work? If so then it is more likely that I clicked the wrong thing

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Think this is my least favourite FM ever. May as well call it off-target manager 2017. Shot after shot off target, free-kick after free-kick blasted over, injuries galore, inconsistent performances from star players where one game they'll get a 9 and next game they'll blast every shot a mile wide and be the worst player on the pitch. Everything feels random. 

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I started a create-a-club save where I had some really worrying issues which has made the game unplayable for that save. The create-a-club was essentially Burton with some younger players and tutors as a way to test their youth development, the players aren't of immense quality immediately but most of them are good enough to be upper Championship level.

Essentially I tried and used 3 different tactics, with varying production (in terms of shots created and possession) but always with the same result - A nearly guaranteed red card each game, counter cross goals (often late) and lots of injuries - I had around 11 first team injuries at one stage, I was unable to field a proper second MC for one game (against Fulham) after 4(!!) other MCs in the squad were suspended or injured. I have never ever had close to this kind of results or bad luck before, a lot of the games played were relatively close or we were dominating them, but the results stay roughly similar. The last two games had not had any red cards but the late counters still are scoring despite the difference in CCCs and shots.

So far, there has been 30 red cards in the championship and it's been almost 10 games for every team. My team is leading in red cards (6) and yellow cards (28) despite every effort to change the tactic and OIs, which I have changed significantly and specifically to reduce hard tackles and diving in. For reference (note that Championship has more teams, thus more games) EPL this season has had 10 red cards total in 11 rounds of matches.

Here is an image of the results and stats so far, unfortunately I wasn't able to get a SS of all of the injuries at it's worst but it's still fairly common.

http://imgur.com/a/PAUtA

This was my first save starting post-release, my previous save with RBL during the beta had no issues like this, even with the same tactic used between the saves (Warlord V2) there wasn't even close to the sheer amount of injuries and cards. I genuinely think there is something wrong about the CAC save so I might try it with another club to see whether there's any similar pattern, but it's disheartening when there is nothing you can do to prevent the inevitable red card and injuries.

 

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Games too random as someone else put it. 

You tell the players to do something, and they just do whatever. 

Tweak every setting to have a player go in and win the ball, but if the opposition sits their line at a certain rate, he just wont. 
As in the opposition player has to cross an imaginary line, and then suddenly everything changes and your players wake up. 

Crossing has issues, as in the slowing down when their is space, waiting till that space is closed and then trying. 
Dribbling has issues, player has 20 dribbling and just dribbles into a player who cant tackle, loses ball. 

Shooting has issues. Decision making has issues. 

You are constantly trying to tweak so that the randomness of the ME isn't so random, and you are on the right "invisible magic lines" for certain stuff to happen. 
Rather then is all being consistent and you being able to build something the way you want. 

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2 hours ago, Eleloy said:

 

Essentially I tried and used 3 different tactics, with varying production (in terms of shots created and possession) but always with the same result ut it's still fairly common.

http://imgur.com/a/PAUtA

This was my first save starting post-release, my previous save with RBL during the beta had no issues like this, even with the same tactic used between the saves (Warlord V2) there wasn't even close to the sheer amount of injuries and cards. I genuinely think there is something wrong about the CAC save so I might try it with another club to see whether there's any similar pattern, but it's disheartening when there is nothing you can do to prevent the inevitable red card and injuries.

 



Not sure if this is the first time you had this, but it may help if you stay away off these downloads if you don't realize what they do. If this is one of the tactics you are basing your test runs on, and if that's the ilk that is producing the kinds of results and counter goals you experience --- whilst I sympathize with the frustration, that would be a massive improvement to previous in my book, in particular if the defenders aren't top drawer on their level. SI have been trying to improve counter attacks etc. for a couple seasons now. Going by the comments, it may still occasionally produce those "hit continue miracle results", but apparently it at least needs some standard of players. http://www.fmscout.com/a-itszdan-4231-fm17-tactic.html

Imagine your favorite team in football, and every single player pushing upfield towards the box. That's what this is. That's two wing backs running forward asap and the only two midfielders not being much cover for them likewise. It's complete wing backs in fact, which means they're encouraged to stretch the pitch and dribble and if the players lack the skill they might drop the ball early on already additionally times. The added reds might be a knock-on off this as every time an attack is intercepted, there is multiple players caught out of position, which can force players into additional last ditch tackles. Every single player is additionally discouraged to shoot from range, which can lead to additionally knock-ons (rather than shooting losing the ball for additional counters). Stuff like this is shared on the Workshop actually supported by SI likewise, and I'm not sure they did themselves favors in there. Tactics like that are screaming for the "opponent has few shots but converts all" scenario, which already pop up in the user reviews as sign of a "completely broken match engine". This is purely an assessment of that tactics, not the way you play the game. Maybe somebody who knows can point to a more "sensible" download tactic than this (there's a sub forums for this here too). It's so attacking it's begging for easy goals for your opponents (tried it on my Arsenal side and conceded 2 off 4 Shots on Target right in the first match). :-) Not sure about the injuries (11 can happen and are more common than many think, so worth watching if that's a one-off).

 

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Things to fix :

  • free kicks in general, it just seems that there are too many, and far post crosses from them seem undefendable
  • crosses that end up in goal (or keeper saves them), also, not a problem if it happens once or twice during the season, but it just happens every other match. Rarely ending up as a goal tbf
  • Position of wingers. They just stay to far wide, no matter what
  • Strikers getting to deep. It may be due to a formation that I'm using, but Advanced forward really shouldn't be behind my AMR/L strata players during counters etc. He's not even slower than them
  • sometimes players have space and time to move further up the pitch towards the goal, and then shoot, but they seem to shoot too early.
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I recently posted about the poor marking I'm witnessing on a regular basis. This is another example that really annoys me. 3 players marking one and leaving the other player completely unmarked. That sort of poor marking doesn't even happen in amateur football let alone professional.

Newcastle.jpg

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How is everyone liking the new social feed, I loved the fact that someone tweeted saying, "what the hell Hibs were doing giving me the job" and also questioning whether a certain player was worth a new contract or being a new signing, it's a nice touch and adds a bit of reality to the game.

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25 minutes ago, jc1 said:

How is everyone liking the new social feed, I loved the fact that someone tweeted saying, "what the hell Hibs were doing giving me the job" and also questioning whether a certain player was worth a new contract or being a new signing, it's a nice touch and adds a bit of reality to the game.

I like it but we need more variety. It becomes repetitive.

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