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Chris Evans

University clubs

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Stemming from some conversations in the Wales Data Issues thread, I'm just wondering how University clubs are set to work in the game?

Are they hard encoded to remain amateur throughout the game (unless changed in the Editor), and can they have any genuine hope of making progress through the leagues if they are restricted in this way?

I'm wonder as Cardiff Metropolitan University are currently doing really well in the Welsh Premier, holding a comfortable mid-table position with the potential to fight for European qualification at the end of the season. In the game, they are perennially stuck in the relegation zone.

Are the reputations/facilities of University teams being accurately represented? Although they might be amateur, surely the players have as much training time as part-time players would do, and the facilities are probably just as good as other lower league clubs (especially in the Welsh Premier or Scottish lower leagues).

Interested to see what people think.

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It appears to he a difficult thing to get right, in FM 16 queens Park nearly always ended up midtable in the spl after signing every good player released from spl sides . Not seen yet how 17 manages it

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58 minutes ago, Chris Evans said:

Stemming from some conversations in the Wales Data Issues thread, I'm just wondering how University clubs are set to work in the game?

Are they hard encoded to remain amateur throughout the game (unless changed in the Editor), and can they have any genuine hope of making progress through the leagues if they are restricted in this way?

I'm wonder as Cardiff Metropolitan University are currently doing really well in the Welsh Premier, holding a comfortable mid-table position with the potential to fight for European qualification at the end of the season. In the game, they are perennially stuck in the relegation zone.

Are the reputations/facilities of University teams being accurately represented? Although they might be amateur, surely the players have as much training time as part-time players would do, and the facilities are probably just as good as other lower league clubs (especially in the Welsh Premier or Scottish lower leagues).

Interested to see what people think.

I don't know about FM17 but in the past University clubs were nothing more than regular clubs with the word University in the name! They weren't hard coded to remain as amateur clubs.

It is possible to create your own rules to play by however if you want to take over a University club.

What I did on FM16 was make myself stick to the following rules:

1) You have three sources of new players:

Players from your youth team, but they may not make any appearances for the first team until the season in which they turn 18.

Players signed externally who are 18 or 19, although 17 year olds can be signed provided they turn 18 during their first season at the club.

Players signed externally who are between 22-24 but only 1 per season.

So you have your annual intake of new students with the occasional PHD/Masters student coming in.

2) Releasing players has a few rules of its own:

Players can only be released at the end of their degree. What I mean by this is that any player you sign as a 17/18/19 year old must be sold or release at the end of their 3rd or 4th season. So even if a player is clearly not good enough after 1 year you are stuck with them for the next 2 years.

Players who are signed between the ages of 22-24 can be kept for anywhere between 2 and 5 years, but if they are still with you after 5 years they must be sold or released.

No player can ever be sent out on loan.

 

And that's that for the rules I made myself stick to. It actually made it a genuinely interesting save game, challenging but enjoyable.

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1 hour ago, Per Annum said:

It appears to he a difficult thing to get right, in FM 16 queens Park nearly always ended up midtable in the spl after signing every good player released from spl sides . Not seen yet how 17 manages it

Queen's Park is an interesting comparison. Hard-coded to be perpetually amateur, they do alright for themselves. Yet when I've bumped up Stirling University (like Cardiff Met doing well in their 5th tier league and Edinburgh Uni (same league) into a pyramid set-up they always sink with multiple relegations in contrast to their given reputations. In my last FM16 campaign I made a league of university teams in the database and the only ones that thrived were UCD (Dublin) and QUB (Belfast).

 

Mack - yes you can do your own thing for the team you manage but the OP is asking whether uni sides are fairly coded and I don't think they are. By the way OP, your goalie's quite the mature student - 37, isn't he?!

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14 minutes ago, phnompenhandy said:

Queen's Park is an interesting comparison. Hard-coded to be perpetually amateur, they do alright for themselves. Yet when I've bumped up Stirling University (like Cardiff Met doing well in their 5th tier league and Edinburgh Uni (same league) into a pyramid set-up they always sink with multiple relegations in contrast to their given reputations. In my last FM16 campaign I made a league of university teams in the database and the only ones that thrived were UCD (Dublin) and QUB (Belfast).

 

Mack - yes you can do your own thing for the team you manage but the OP is asking whether uni sides are fairly coded and I don't think they are. By the way OP, your goalie's quite the mature student - 37, isn't he?!

1

I did a sign-up with created wonderkids in FM16 at Stirling University, the team got two promotions before the big clubs swept in and signed all the players for no fees (but a later sell-on fee which resulted in Stirling U receiving several million dollars later). They never went professional, don't think they spent much on upgrades, and after making it up to League One and threatening for promotion, they fell back to the Highland/Lowland leagues. 

 

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Interesting. You can also do all sorts of things in the editor - not just set a club as always amateur/amateur/semi-pro, but also have an age policy suc as maximum age 25. I'll doubtless tweak away as soon as the new editor's out.

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1 hour ago, phnompenhandy said:

By the way OP, your goalie's quite the mature student - 37, isn't he?!

He is! I'm pretty sure I read that he is studying for a PGCE which should explain his age.

1 hour ago, phnompenhandy said:

Interesting. You can also do all sorts of things in the editor - not just set a club as always amateur/amateur/semi-pro, but also have an age policy suc as maximum age 25. I'll doubtless tweak away as soon as the new editor's out.

In the 2015 game, I edited Cardiff Met to start the game in the Welsh Premier as a full-time professional club to have a rival to TNS.

Come Friday, I think I might just tweak the attendance settings for the team (unless SI do it before then) to be more reflective of reality, and maybe bump some player attributes up a notch or two to match the mid-table teams. Hopefully I can keep them from being relegated long enough to get them to full-time professional status. Either that, or I add in some lower Welsh leagues.

Would be interesting to hear from SI to see if University clubs are naturally limited in some way.

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Not all university teams should be amateur though. UCD in Dublin do pay their players for example and not all players are still in education there. Likewise in South America clubs are fully professional and retain connections to the educational institutions in name only. 

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FM16 saw uni clubs coded as standard amateur sides, still buying/signing players from other clubs. Suspect there will be a way through the editor to try and mould them slightly!

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2 minutes ago, holidaysong said:

Not all university teams should be amateur though. UCD in Dublin do pay their players for example and not all players are still in education there. Likewise in South America clubs are fully professional and retain connections to the educational institutions in name only. 

Right, Queens University Belfast allow alumni as well. Queens Grads however don't have any educational requirements and are just another team which I always found a little bit weird.

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2 hours ago, Chris Evans said:

He is! I'm pretty sure I read that he is studying for a PGCE which should explain his age.

In the 2015 game, I edited Cardiff Met to start the game in the Welsh Premier as a full-time professional club to have a rival to TNS.

Come Friday, I think I might just tweak the attendance settings for the team (unless SI do it before then) to be more reflective of reality, and maybe bump some player attributes up a notch or two to match the mid-table teams. Hopefully I can keep them from being relegated long enough to get them to full-time professional status. Either that, or I add in some lower Welsh leagues.

Would be interesting to hear from SI to see if University clubs are naturally limited in some way.

It was a tricky one when it came to Cardiff Met this year as there isn't a specific way to account for Uni teams in the database without a load of feature requests and coding changes. After a few emails back and forth between myself, my superior and however it is he deals with, it was decided to set Cardiff Met as Always Amateur and with a minimum age of 18. I suppose this one will be ongoing though and will have to be constantly evaluated. Its a trick one to with regards to players abilities and reputations. As we couldn't set them as a Semi-Pro team as they're not, however with their players being Amateurs, any that perform well will be hoovered up on Free Transfers, its a tricky one.

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44 minutes ago, CymruAmBythWXM said:

It was a tricky one when it came to Cardiff Met this year as there isn't a specific way to account for Uni teams in the database without a load of feature requests and coding changes. After a few emails back and forth between myself, my superior and however it is he deals with, it was decided to set Cardiff Met as Always Amateur and with a minimum age of 18. I suppose this one will be ongoing though and will have to be constantly evaluated. Its a trick one to with regards to players abilities and reputations. As we couldn't set them as a Semi-Pro team as they're not, however with their players being Amateurs, any that perform well will be hoovered up on Free Transfers, its a tricky one.

Thanks for the comments! I can understand that making feature changes for the small number of University clubs wouldn't be a high priority for the team. I'll probably play around with the team in the database (maybe bring back Inter Cardiff) and have some fun that way.

The other comments about the Irish/Scottish University teams are interesting, will probably check them out as well at some point in my career!

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I took the manager's job at Cardiff Met Uni at the start of my first save and I have absolutely loved the challenge of it so far. Each time I get a semi-decent player come through, a bigger club (generally TNS so far) comes in and snatches them up for free. 

 

I actually managed to qualify for the Europa League first qualifying round in my second season, but sadly got smashed by FC Vaduz 5-2 on aggregate.

 

There is one issue which is bugging me though and I am hoping somewhere here may know the answer!!

 

We have a wage budget on nothing (obviously), yet we are spending £250 a month on wages and I cannot for the life of me find where that money is going - does anyone else know?!

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4 hours ago, DB1091 said:

I took the manager's job at Cardiff Met Uni at the start of my first save and I have absolutely loved the challenge of it so far. Each time I get a semi-decent player come through, a bigger club (generally TNS so far) comes in and snatches them up for free. 

 

I actually managed to qualify for the Europa League first qualifying round in my second season, but sadly got smashed by FC Vaduz 5-2 on aggregate.

 

There is one issue which is bugging me though and I am hoping somewhere here may know the answer!!

 

We have a wage budget on nothing (obviously), yet we are spending £250 a month on wages and I cannot for the life of me find where that money is going - does anyone else know?!

Could be non-playing staff that you don't hire - cleaner, tea lady, kit man.

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10 hours ago, phnompenhandy said:

Could be non-playing staff that you don't hire - cleaner, tea lady, kit man.

Of course! That makes sense.

Frustratingly, when I'm interviewed by other clubs they question my handling of finances because of this expense - which is seemingly out of my control - despite having increased the bank balance to £350k.

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