Learning how to play

[isignedupfornorealreason]

5 hours ago, MHovel said:

when im switching to a defensive or counter mentality i always conceed, no matter what, I don't know, maybe the issue for me is that my players ain't good enough, which i can accept that, but if they are not good enough, i cannot also go more attacking mentality because my player ability (attributes) cannot allow me to do so, control which is also attacking mentality is the most stable result i get with, but it also feels like when i win it's more luck than really good performance.

Might be because going further down the mentality ladder invites opposition pressure, whereas control+ has you putting the pressure on the opposition. I think if you go more 'defensive' you need to manage it via shouts as well to balance things, because sitting off and dropping deep can be counter-productive - you might want to be defensive in mentality but with your defensive line pushed up and your closing down to be more aggressive to shut out the opposition runners and stop yourself from getting compressed into your own box.

(I may be miles off the mark with that though, but give it a try?)

 

18 hours ago, looping said:

o be honest, I have already tried in FMT and it's a total waste of time. I will play, I will lose and I will have no idea why and other people neither. I know because this has already happened. You can check it on any of my threads. I've tried on FMT and results are the same, nothing is going to change and I'm fed up of this.

One thing people touched upon was the Tactical familarity, but I think Fitness plays a massive part. When I was on FMT I was consistently losing to smaller clubs and wonder what the hell I was doing wrong. I noticed that in the friendlies I'd organised, the teams I picked were non-loaded leagues, and thus defaulted to something like 70-80% base fitness (i.e. Match fit). That meant I was playing unfit players Vs match fit players, and it made a massive difference. They would trounce me 2-0 regularly, but I'd have their number if I matched their fitness levels. (I may be wrong though, but that was the one thing that stood out to me when I was trying to figure out why I was getting smacked about like an amateur. =/)

 

As for your formations, I've no idea why you're getting battered so much, but I'm no expert at the tactics side. 

[looping]

48 minutes ago, NoTekkersRB said:

It's not an option to give up, people are still trying to help and there are ideas that you have yet to try

I wouldn't give up if I could do something different. What I don't want is to go on circles. I'm not going to try anything that I have already because it is obvious it's useless.

I know the problem. I exactly know the problem. You have to watch the match, identify the flow of the game and make adjustments. I'm totally unable to do that.

If anybody has any idea, welcome. I would be really surprised.

[NoTekkersRB]

47 minutes ago, looping said:

I wouldn't give up if I could do something different. What I don't want is to go on circles. I'm not going to try anything that I have already because it is obvious it's useless.

I know the problem. I exactly know the problem. You have to watch the match, identify the flow of the game and make adjustments. I'm totally unable to do that.

If anybody has any idea, welcome. I would be really surprised.

Well to be honest, the people who know most about that approach are Cleon and Rashidi.

 

To be honest, I think we need to look at the whole picture because it can't be squarely down to your tactics. It's the reason why I keep asking to see your teamtalks, etc. @isignedupfornorealreason made some points too that could be looked at. And how you are setting up training and which players you're putting into the team and their attributes. 

[looping]

1 hour ago, NoTekkersRB said:

Well to be honest, the people who know most about that approach are Cleon and Rashidi.

 

To be honest, I think we need to look at the whole picture because it can't be squarely down to your tactics. It's the reason why I keep asking to see your teamtalks, etc. @isignedupfornorealreason made some points too that could be looked at. And how you are setting up training and which players you're putting into the team and their attributes. 

To be honest, we can't count with Rashidi and Cleon posting here, so forget about that. In addition, I don't know how are they helping people. From what they write I get no clear conclusion and I don't get half of the words Rashidi says in his videos. I'm not criticizing them, for sure it's my fault because they are very helpful to other people, but I can't count with this help.

My team talks were an issue already covered in one of my previous threads and there was nothing wrong with them. I think I have already identified the problem: I can't spot issues during the match and, as a consequence, I can't fix them. Not good news, because I found out this some months ago and no progress is made.

 

[Dr. Hook]

I am not clear why you can't spot issues- you just have to watch the match, same as you would something on television. For example, when you win the ball back in your own half and start going forward, you can pause the game and see exactly where everyone is at the moment, You can run it forward a few seconds and check again. See where they all are, who are their passing options, and what they actually do with the ball. When you move into the final third, do the same thing. And the same with transitioning into defense- pause match, look where players are, look where the space is, go forward a couple of seconds, then pause and look again. You *will* see these things if you do this. It is a pain in the ass to do sometimes, and it takes some time, but it is foolproof. Watch every second of the damn match, man!

Make yourself a checklist of things you want to see specifically such as: where is my d-line in all three phases of play? Where are my support players going, who is making the forward runs, where is my striker going etc. Don't make it too complicated and don't even worry about the tactical settings once you have them in place. Just figure out these basic things about how your players move on defense, transition, offense, and what they do with the ball.

Do this some few times with games. Then when you feel like you know what you want to see and what you don't, when you play on extended highlights or whatever, when a move happens, you know what you are looking for. Then you can look at what changes you might make to correct specific things you have spotted.

[looping]

1 hour ago, Dr. Hook said:

I am not clear why you can't spot issues- you just have to watch the match, same as you would something on television. For example, when you win the ball back in your own half and start going forward, you can pause the game and see exactly where everyone is at the moment, You can run it forward a few seconds and check again. See where they all are, who are their passing options, and what they actually do with the ball. When you move into the final third, do the same thing. And the same with transitioning into defense- pause match, look where players are, look where the space is, go forward a couple of seconds, then pause and look again. You *will* see these things if you do this. It is a pain in the ass to do sometimes, and it takes some time, but it is foolproof. Watch every second of the damn match, man!

Make yourself a checklist of things you want to see specifically such as: where is my d-line in all three phases of play? Where are my support players going, who is making the forward runs, where is my striker going etc. Don't make it too complicated and don't even worry about the tactical settings once you have them in place. Just figure out these basic things about how your players move on defense, transition, offense, and what they do with the ball.

Do this some few times with games. Then when you feel like you know what you want to see and what you don't, when you play on extended highlights or whatever, when a move happens, you know what you are looking for. Then you can look at what changes you might make to correct specific things you have spotted.

I don't know what I have to want to see. In transition my players must run to their attacking/defensive positions. What else can they do?

[Dr. Hook]

9 minutes ago, looping said:

I don't know what I have to want to see. In transition my players must run to their attacking/defensive positions. What else can they do?

What you've said is exactly what to watch for. Don't make it more complex than it is. For example, if you have a winger set to an attack duty, you watch him and see how far deep he comes when you are transitioning to defense. When you transition to attack where does he go and when? Where is he when you firmly into the opponent third? You can do this with every position. You set the role, duty for the player, you have a basic set of instructions (attacking, direct football, say), then you see where they go. Taking the winger example further: if he gets the ball out wide and dribbles to the byline and delivers a cross, where are the targets for the cross? Who is in the box or on their way?

For defense, if you turn the ball over in the midfield, pause the match, see where your men are. Let it go for a few seconds, then pause again. Where are they now? Are they actually getting back to the right positions where you want them? Are there any holes left exposed? Who is challenging the ball, who is marking who, where is the defensive line dropping to etc.

Does this make sense? It isn't some sort of magic here that you need to see what is happening. If you make it too complex, you lose sight of the simplicity. You said it so simply, the  players must run to their positions. That is what you are looking for. Do they go where you expect them to go? How quickly? When they get there, what does your team look like at that point? Do they have passing options? On defense is the pitch well-covered? That is all there is to it, really. You'll know after a few times of watching matches what is happening with your players. Then, you can start looking at how to make them do differently if they are not doing what you want them to do.

For this sort of experiment, I recommend that you play several matches, and don't do it in a save you care about, because you don't care about results at the moment. You just care about seeing what is happening, good and bad without trying to fix anything. As I mentioned earlier, do it on FMT if you can, so you can throw out tactical familiarity as a factor. Lastly, I would also recommend using a flexible shape and standard mentality, since they are neutral. You care only about role/duty choice here and how they are working for you because that is basis for everything about "reading" the game.

If there is anything I've written here that doesn't make sense, let me know.

[Cleon]

10 hours ago, looping said:

To be honest, we can't count with Rashidi and Cleon posting here, so forget about that. In addition, I don't know how are they helping people. From what they write I get no clear conclusion and I don't get half of the words Rashidi says in his videos. I'm not criticizing them, for sure it's my fault because they are very helpful to other people, but I can't count with this help.

My team talks were an issue already covered in one of my previous threads and there was nothing wrong with them. I think I have already identified the problem: I can't spot issues during the match and, as a consequence, I can't fix them. Not good news, because I found out this some months ago and no progress is made.

 

This is why I stopped helping you. It's down to you to spot things, all we can do is guide. But even when I was helping you, you was full of excuses and gave off the you knew better attitude, which is fine but you was the one seeking help. Someone gives you advice and you always have an excuse, there's nothing wrong with this, this wont work blah blah. So I found it a waste of time. The issue is with you yourself and the ability to know basics. That's the real issue and until you work on that then no matter what you do/use you'll always struggle.

I have no idea how people cannot see things like bad passes, no passing options, shooting from distance. Everyone (unless some kind of illness that prevents it which some users do have) should be able to see the basic things like the midfield and strikers not linking up properly or a lack of support and movement. No-one can teach you this, it's something you have to do for yourself. However all it requires is actually paying attention to what happens. Fixing the issues doesn't matter, you just need the ability to spot the issues first.

You can't understand how we help people and that's fine but don't expect us to even attempt to help you then.

[facman]

On 12/4/2016 at 12:55, looping said:

This is desperating.

I'm not using my style any more. I surrender. Ok. Let's follow "the rules".

My players are quite good. I expect to end between 4 and 8. My best players are defensive players and, if I had enough money, I would sign a striker. I expect problems scoring.

Find your football tactics app at this11.com

No Ti, no PI. Standard, flexible.

I try to play with mentality and shape.

No idea what to do with shape so I only change mentality.

 

 

Can you do something for me please?

Go forward in time to your next match, and set up your team. Post a screenshot of your team pre-match (making sure we can see overall fitness level and match sharpness. Then post a screenshot of your pre-game and half time team talks, then post a screenshot of your team post game, so that we can see their overall ratings and fitness levels. This way we might be able to see if there is something you are doing (or aren't doing) that is negatively affecting your players.

[looping]

 

 

I didn't remember to screenshot half time but I told them calmed we we were doing well and I couldn't undertand why we weren't winning.

Basically, I started defensive+structured but they scored 2 goals in their first 2 shots (a free kick and a cross). i changed to control and dropped my def line. We scored 2 until half time. After half time we scored another and I went defensive+structured but I pushed my def line slighlty higher in order to avoid pressure (too much pressure).

[looping]

Another match.

[facman]

30 minutes ago, looping said:

 

Little bit concerned with your match sharpness for this game - is this a pre-season friendly or a league match? If it is a league match did you play any friendlies?

Otherwise you seemed to have 2 wins out of 2, so no problems... team talks look fine to me

[looping]

3 minutes ago, facman said:

Little bit concerned with your match sharpness for this game - is this a pre-season friendly or a league match? If it is a league match did you play any friendlies?

Otherwise you seemed to have 2 wins out of 2, so no problems... team talks look fine to me

First game of the season. I played 6 friendlies.

Let me play a few more matches because the disaster is coming. Conceding two goals against Eibar? This is not going to end well...

[facman]

1 hour ago, looping said:

First game of the season. I played 6 friendlies.

With 6 friendlies all of your starting 11 (and most of your backup players should be 95-99 match sharpness!

[isignedupfornorealreason]

Also, bit harsh criticising your team for coming back from 2-0 down to win 2-3. I'd be congratulating them on that comeback as its an away game. Or warning them about complacency if it was at home. >_> Just me though.

[Bitner]

6 minutes ago, isignedupfornorealreason said:

Also, bit harsh criticising your team for coming back from 2-0 down to win 2-3. I'd be congratulating them on that comeback as its an away game. Or warning them about complacency if it was at home. >_> Just me though.

Kinda harsh indeed. An away victory is always an away victory.

Cheers,
Bitner 

[kandersson]

my two cents: never use the 'I'm expecting you to win' team talk, it rarely goes well for me. Also don't praise players at half time, use 'don't get complacent' if winning or 'not good enough' if losing/drawing. You can praise them at full time

Before start of the season it's a must to reach almost full tactical familiarity, match sharpness and superb morale. You can achieve this with  pre-season friendlies (more in the range of 10-12 than 5-6) against very weak teams, team talks and player interactions. It can be tedious but that's the way it works. Pretty confident that things would work much better for you if you nail pre-season and man management.

[NoTekkersRB]

8 hours ago, looping said:

 

 

I didn't remember to screenshot half time but I told them calmed we we were doing well and I couldn't undertand why we weren't winning.

Basically, I started defensive+structured but they scored 2 goals in their first 2 shots (a free kick and a cross). i changed to control and dropped my def line. We scored 2 until half time. After half time we scored another and I went defensive+structured but I pushed my def line slighlty higher in order to avoid pressure (too much pressure).

Why would you critisize the team? Regardless of performance, you won the match, AWAY. Be less harsh when playing away. You've fired up the team, probably making them nervous for the next match.

 

8 hours ago, looping said:

First game of the season. I played 6 friendlies.

Let me play a few more matches because the disaster is coming. Conceding two goals against Eibar? This is not going to end well...

We know you want to keep things tight but you need to keep it in perspective.

 

8 hours ago, looping said:

Another match.

 

I personally stopped using Expect to win teamtalk unless my team is complacent and only against a team that I am expected to overwhelm when at Home. I find that it adds too much pressure and players get nervous within the first 15 mins. At half time, you fired your team up, which can go either way really. I'd actually give them confidence rather than anger them as they can overplay. You got the result though.

[looping]

According to your answers, I can assume that my team talks are not perfect but they are not the cause of my total failing? They are not particularly helping but they are not the main problem?

[Bitner]

3 minutes ago, looping said:

According to your answers, I can assume that my team talks are not perfect but they are not the cause of my total failing? They are not particularly helping but they are not the main problem?

We didn't see the rest of them, but it's likely to be a factor.  Not the only factor, as all things converge to an sucess or insucess...

Cheers,
Bitner 

[looping]

17 hours ago, Dr. Hook said:

What you've said is exactly what to watch for. Don't make it more complex than it is. For example, if you have a winger set to an attack duty, you watch him and see how far deep he comes when you are transitioning to defense. When you transition to attack where does he go and when? Where is he when you firmly into the opponent third? You can do this with every position. You set the role, duty for the player, you have a basic set of instructions (attacking, direct football, say), then you see where they go. Taking the winger example further: if he gets the ball out wide and dribbles to the byline and delivers a cross, where are the targets for the cross? Who is in the box or on their way?

For defense, if you turn the ball over in the midfield, pause the match, see where your men are. Let it go for a few seconds, then pause again. Where are they now? Are they actually getting back to the right positions where you want them? Are there any holes left exposed? Who is challenging the ball, who is marking who, where is the defensive line dropping to etc.

Does this make sense? It isn't some sort of magic here that you need to see what is happening. If you make it too complex, you lose sight of the simplicity. You said it so simply, the  players must run to their positions. That is what you are looking for. Do they go where you expect them to go? How quickly? When they get there, what does your team look like at that point? Do they have passing options? On defense is the pitch well-covered? That is all there is to it, really. You'll know after a few times of watching matches what is happening with your players. Then, you can start looking at how to make them do differently if they are not doing what you want them to do.

For this sort of experiment, I recommend that you play several matches, and don't do it in a save you care about, because you don't care about results at the moment. You just care about seeing what is happening, good and bad without trying to fix anything. As I mentioned earlier, do it on FMT if you can, so you can throw out tactical familiarity as a factor. Lastly, I would also recommend using a flexible shape and standard mentality, since they are neutral. You care only about role/duty choice here and how they are working for you because that is basis for everything about "reading" the game.

If there is anything I've written here that doesn't make sense, let me know.

I started a dummy save with Arsenal to do that. I have already played 3 matches and I have nothing to say. I'll keep playing and I hope I'll see something..

 

10 hours ago, Cleon said:

This is why I stopped helping you. It's down to you to spot things, all we can do is guide. But even when I was helping you, you was full of excuses and gave off the you knew better attitude, which is fine but you was the one seeking help. Someone gives you advice and you always have an excuse, there's nothing wrong with this, this wont work blah blah. So I found it a waste of time. The issue is with you yourself and the ability to know basics. That's the real issue and until you work on that then no matter what you do/use you'll always struggle.

I have no idea how people cannot see things like bad passes, no passing options, shooting from distance. Everyone (unless some kind of illness that prevents it which some users do have) should be able to see the basic things like the midfield and strikers not linking up properly or a lack of support and movement. No-one can teach you this, it's something you have to do for yourself. However all it requires is actually paying attention to what happens. Fixing the issues doesn't matter, you just need the ability to spot the issues first.

You can't understand how we help people and that's fine but don't expect us to even attempt to help you then.

I don't remember you helping me in the past, but I can certainly be mistaken.

I don't know what are you talking about when you say excuses and blabla. I'm doing my very best and I request you to read this thread, especially first 3 pages.

If you want to help, I don't have enough words to welcome you, but I would like to kindly ask you to try not to belittle my efforts because what you see is the best I can do.

[daleuk8]

11 hours ago, Cleon said:

This is why I stopped helping you. It's down to you to spot things, all we can do is guide. But even when I was helping you, you was full of excuses and gave off the you knew better attitude, which is fine but you was the one seeking help. Someone gives you advice and you always have an excuse, there's nothing wrong with this, this wont work blah blah. So I found it a waste of time. The issue is with you yourself and the ability to know basics. That's the real issue and until you work on that then no matter what you do/use you'll always struggle.

I have no idea how people cannot see things like bad passes, no passing options, shooting from distance. Everyone (unless some kind of illness that prevents it which some users do have) should be able to see the basic things like the midfield and strikers not linking up properly or a lack of support and movement. No-one can teach you this, it's something you have to do for yourself. However all it requires is actually paying attention to what happens. Fixing the issues doesn't matter, you just need the ability to spot the issues first.

You can't understand how we help people and that's fine but don't expect us to even attempt to help you then.

This is something I've had to learn to do. And with the advice given things are coming together. 15 games unbeaten..

[looping]

19 hours ago, Dr. Hook said:

When you transition to attack where does he go and when?

Walcott is my wm-at right sided. In transition from defense to attack he runs to his attacking position as soon as posible.

19 hours ago, Dr. Hook said:

Where is he when you firmly into the opponent third?

In his position. Wide with the ball and inside the box when the ball is on the other side.

 

19 hours ago, Dr. Hook said:

re they actually getting back to the right positions where you want them?

From defense to attack:

From attack to defense:

19 hours ago, Dr. Hook said:

Are there any holes left exposed?

No.

19 hours ago, Dr. Hook said:

Who is challenging the ball, who is marking who, where is the defensive line dropping to etc.

The closest player and my central midfielders.

19 hours ago, Dr. Hook said:

  players must run to their positions. That is what you are looking for. Do they go where you expect them to go? How quickly?

Yes.

19 hours ago, Dr. Hook said:

When they get there, what does your team look like at that point?

Looks good.

19 hours ago, Dr. Hook said:

Do they have passing options?

Yes. Passing the ball back is an option.

19 hours ago, Dr. Hook said:

On defense is the pitch well-covered?

Yes.

 

 

 

If I can have an opinion, my problems are not in transition. My problems are in positional play. My defenders don't tackle, just watch how the opponent scores. WHen attacking, they decide to pass the ball to the opponent and make the worst and weirdest decisions I can imagine. In transition they do well,not perfect, because there is nothing perfect, but I can't see anything especially wrong.

 

Even on this situation, where my left wm didn't track back as fast as expected because he was inside the box very high up the pitch, it is not a problem.

[NoTekkersRB]

19 minutes ago, looping said:

If I can have an opinion, my problems are not in transition. My problems are in positional play. My defenders don't tackle, just watch how the opponent scores. WHen attacking, they decide to pass the ball to the opponent and make the worst and weirdest decisions I can imagine. In transition they do well,not perfect, because there is nothing perfect, but I can't see anything especially wrong.

 

Even on this situation, where my left wm didn't track back as fast as expected because he was inside the box very high up the pitch, it is not a problem.

In my experience, that is partly down to nervousness due to teamtalks or teamtalks that don't fit the situation. I find that teamtalks can put you in a vicious cycle of manager anger, to player nervousness, to poor performances, to manager anger etc etc which leads to poor morale and awful form.

[looping]

9 minutes ago, NoTekkersRB said:

In my experience, that is partly down to nervousness due to teamtalks or teamtalks that don't fit the situation. I find that teamtalks can put you in a vicious cycle of manager anger, to player nervousness, to poor performances, to manager anger etc etc which leads to poor morale and awful form.

No teamtalks in FMT. I hope, because I haven't seen them...

 

 

 

 

 

 

[NoTekkersRB]

17 minutes ago, looping said:

No teamtalks in FMT. I hope, because I haven't seen them...

 

 

 

 

 

 

You gone back to FMT? Never played FMT so my knowledge is limited.

[Dr. Hook]

 If your players are just passing the ball to opponents on the attack, then everything is not well. You are using Arsenal, so you have quality players. There is always a reason why things happen frequently- once in a while it can just be a mistake, but if this is constant, then your players are NOT getting into good positions to receive passes. This is the problem you identify on offense. So what is going on here? Then you have to make a deeper analysis. Find out who is giving the ball away, and from what part of the pitch. Pay attention to how players are facing (especially in 2d view) and their footedness. Check your instructions for the team and player. How are you asking them to pass? Most times players pass the ball straight to an opponent because there aren't other options available that seem good to them- they try to do what you ask them to do, even if it is probably not going to work. For example, if a player has more risky passes set, then he will try those, even if he has a good option to drop it back.

Same principles for defense. We have the same game, and my players do tackle, mark, challenge, press etc. There is always a reason for things, so you do the same thing here. Is there a specific  player or players that don't tackle or challenge the ball?Figure out who and where the problem is and how often this is happening. Look at the opponents around them- context. Do they not step out to challenge a ball carrier because someone is making a run behind them or about to? Those types of things.

This is all there is to reading the game. Once you get a shortlist of problems, then you can look at ways to sort it out, but it is so much easier to do that when you know exactly what is wrong.

[Dr. Hook]

2 minutes ago, NoTekkersRB said:

You gone back to FMT? Never played FMT so my knowledge is limited.

FMT just strips out some of the simulation elements for faster, less involved gameplay- it loses teamtalks, no tactical familiarity bars etc. It uses the exact same match engine.

[looping]

2 minutes ago, Dr. Hook said:

 If your players are just passing the ball to opponents on the attack, then everything is not well. You are using Arsenal, so you have quality players. There is always a reason why things happen frequently- once in a while it can just be a mistake, but if this is constant, then your players are NOT getting into good positions to receive passes. This is the problem you identify on offense. So what is going on here? Then you have to make a deeper analysis. Find out who is giving the ball away, and from what part of the pitch. Pay attention to how players are facing (especially in 2d view) and their footedness. Check your instructions for the team and player. How are you asking them to pass? Most times players pass the ball straight to an opponent because there aren't other options available that seem good to them- they try to do what you ask them to do, even if it is probably not going to work. For example, if a player has more risky passes set, then he will try those, even if he has a good option to drop it back.

Same principles for defense. We have the same game, and my players do tackle, mark, challenge, press etc. There is always a reason for things, so you do the same thing here. Is there a specific  player or players that don't tackle or challenge the ball?Figure out who and where the problem is and how often this is happening. Look at the opponents around them- context. Do they not step out to challenge a ball carrier because someone is making a run behind them or about to? Those types of things.

This is all there is to reading the game. Once you get a shortlist of problems, then you can look at ways to sort it out, but it is so much easier to do that when you know exactly what is wrong.

How can I post a few seconds of the match? A video I mean.

[Dr. Hook]

1 minute ago, looping said:

How can I post a few seconds of the match? A video I mean.

You have to upload a highlight that you record from in the match to a third party site like youtube, then paste it in here, or a link to it anyway. You need to have a Youtube account or one to some other video hosting site.

[looping]

9 minutes ago, Dr. Hook said:

 If your players are just passing the ball to opponents on the attack, then everything is not well. You are using Arsenal, so you have quality players. There is always a reason why things happen frequently- once in a while it can just be a mistake, but if this is constant, then your players are NOT getting into good positions to receive passes. This is the problem you identify on offense. So what is going on here? Then you have to make a deeper analysis. Find out who is giving the ball away, and from what part of the pitch. Pay attention to how players are facing (especially in 2d view) and their footedness. Check your instructions for the team and player. How are you asking them to pass? Most times players pass the ball straight to an opponent because there aren't other options available that seem good to them- they try to do what you ask them to do, even if it is probably not going to work. For example, if a player has more risky passes set, then he will try those, even if he has a good option to drop it back.

Same principles for defense. We have the same game, and my players do tackle, mark, challenge, press etc. There is always a reason for things, so you do the same thing here. Is there a specific  player or players that don't tackle or challenge the ball?Figure out who and where the problem is and how often this is happening. Look at the opponents around them- context. Do they not step out to challenge a ball carrier because someone is making a run behind them or about to? Those types of things.

This is all there is to reading the game. Once you get a shortlist of problems, then you can look at ways to sort it out, but it is so much easier to do that when you know exactly what is wrong.

Then, if I use 11 "generalist" roles with fluid shape, No TI, No PI, my players will basically have no instruction to follow and will make their own decisions (creative decisions due to fluid shape)? 

4 minutes ago, Dr. Hook said:

You have to upload a highlight that you record from in the match to a third party site like youtube, then paste it in here, or a link to it anyway. You need to have a Youtube account or one to some other video hosting site.

Nothing then.

[Dr. Hook]

It isn't that they have no instruction, though. All roles and duties come pre-set with instructions. As for the team itself:

You have set a shape, and a mentality, and a formation- those are team instructions as they are telling your team how you want them to play. They will follow what those tell them to do. If you play standard/flexible then you should expect a medium block defense, moderate space between players, and a defensive lineup that matches your formation setting. Your players will push forward, but only so far as they can be pretty sure of being able to get back into defensive shape. Because standard is a neutral risk setting, they will try for 50/50 type plays if that makes sense. If they try a pass, it will generally be one that has a 50/50 or better chance to succeed. If there isn't one of those available, they will probably hoof it away or clear it out of bounds. I speak in general terms here, because player attributes play a part along with roles and duties.

Since you have made your shape fluid, this risk tolerance is modified a bit to take more chances, and your team will be more compact and you should see more players involved in your transitions.

So to sum up:

1) Shape, Mentality, and Formation are your basic team instructions- they define your basic style of play.

2) How your team goes about implementing your basic style is based on your roles and duties

3) How your players perform in their roles and duties are based on their attributes and PPMs

4) TI and PI are used as modifiers to your style of play or to your player roles and duties.

 

 

[looping]

19 minutes ago, Dr. Hook said:

It isn't that they have no instruction, though. All roles and duties come pre-set with instructions. As for the team itself:

You have set a shape, and a mentality, and a formation- those are team instructions as they are telling your team how you want them to play. They will follow what those tell them to do. If you play standard/flexible then you should expect a medium block defense, moderate space between players, and a defensive lineup that matches your formation setting. Your players will push forward, but only so far as they can be pretty sure of being able to get back into defensive shape. Because standard is a neutral risk setting, they will try for 50/50 type plays if that makes sense. If they try a pass, it will generally be one that has a 50/50 or better chance to succeed. If there isn't one of those available, they will probably hoof it away or clear it out of bounds. I speak in general terms here, because player attributes play a part along with roles and duties.

Since you have made your shape fluid, this risk tolerance is modified a bit to take more chances, and your team will be more compact and you should see more players involved in your transitions.

So to sum up:

1) Shape, Mentality, and Formation are your basic team instructions- they define your basic style of play.

2) How your team goes about implementing your basic style is based on your roles and duties

3) How your players perform in their roles and duties are based on their attributes and PPMs

4) TI and PI are used as modifiers to your style of play or to your player roles and duties.

 

 

Yes, this is exactly what I tried to say. If I use fb cb cb fb wm cm cm wm am dfl, some of this roles have PI, but are quite neutral unlike other roles (playmakers, wingers....), so I'm not telling them what I exactly want them to do. Add to that a fluid shape and my players, to some extent, will  follow no instructions. I mean, I'm not telling anybdoy to dribble more, make more risky passes or  close down more so they will do that if they think is a good decision. I depend more on my players but, as long as my decisions are constantly terrible, maybe it's not a bad idea.

Despite that, I still can manage risk with mentality. If I want them to take more risks (close down more, high def line, more direct passing, etc..) I can increase mentality or lower it.

Does it make sense?

[Dr. Hook]

Just now, looping said:

Yes, this is exactly what I tried to say. If I use fb cb cb fb wm cm cm wm am dfl, some of this roles have PI, but are quite neutral unlike other roles (playmakers, wingers....), so I'm not telling them what I exactly want them to do. Add to that a fluid shape and my players, to some extent, will  follow no instructions.

Despite that, I still can manage risk with mentality. If I want them to take more risks (close down more, high def line, more direct passing, etc..) I can increase mentality.

Does it make sense?

Yes it makes perfect sense. I think you have it right. So with this sort of setup, you have a basic wide midfielder- he will have a neutral passing setting of mixed: some direct, some short, and which he chooses to do is based on his attributes and the context around him. Then it gets easy to modify from there- if you find that he is trying to make too many short passes that are getting intercepted, for example, then you can be more instructive with his passing and tell him to play more direct. 

[isignedupfornorealreason]

^I suppose, you'd need to have players with excellent decision making attributes and consistency if you play that way. Though, decisions is always a nice attribute to have anyway. 

[Dr. Hook]

56 minutes ago, isignedupfornorealreason said:

^I suppose, you'd need to have players with excellent decision making attributes and consistency if you play that way. Though, decisions is always a nice attribute to have anyway. 

I call those non- negotiable attributes in any system or club   

[woland]

Hello everyone.

10 hours ago, Dr. Hook said:

I call those non- negotiable attributes in any system or club   

And what if my team has poor decision attribute in comparing with other teams in league? How i can decrease effect of this issue?

[looping]

What can I do to stop this?

 

https://vid.me/dd2h

[Deep-Lying Goalkeeper]

1 hour ago, looping said:

What can I do to stop this?

 

https://vid.me/dd2h

Is this a pattern that repeats itself game after game?

And more precisely to stop what? Fullback(?) from being beaten in 1vs1?  Goalkeeper from not saving?

If your problem is the 3 midfielders being outplayed by passing, you could instruct them to close down less or much less so they wouldn't all be running after the ball.

 

[looping]

1 minute ago, Deep-Lying Goalkeeper said:

Is this a pattern that repeats itself game after game?

And more precisely to stop what? Fullback(?) from being beaten in 1vs1?  Goalkeeper from not saving?

If your problem is the 3 midfielders being outplayed by passing, you could instruct them to close down less or much less so they wouldn't all be running after the ball.

 

This is very important. This is the key of everything. I don't know what was wrong in this goal. I don't know if this just happened randomly or there is something wrong in my tactic.

As a consequence, I don't know what I have to do.

To be honest, I would say it was my fullback who stupidly let the opponent get inside the box and shot. And my gk, of course. This was an easy save. But the problem is that in any goal I conced I think it's my players fault and that is not posible.

[NoTekkersRB]

1 minute ago, looping said:

This is very important. This is the key of everything. I don't know what was wrong in this goal. I don't know if this just happened randomly or there is something wrong in my tactic.

As a consequence, I don't know what I have to do.

To be honest, I would say it was my fullback who stupidly let the opponent get inside the box and shot. And my gk, of course. This was an easy save. But the problem is that in any goal I conced I think it's my players fault and that is not posible.

You need to look at the build up play before, not sure those seventeen seconds is enough

[Deep-Lying Goalkeeper]

1 minute ago, looping said:

This is very important. This is the key of everything. I don't know what was wrong in this goal. I don't know if this just happened randomly or there is something wrong in my tactic.

As a consequence, I don't know what I have to do.

To be honest, I would say it was my fullback who stupidly let the opponent get inside the box and shot. And my gk, of course. This was an easy save. But the problem is that in any goal I conced I think it's my players fault and that is not posible.

Get a better fullback & goalie? But then again, no players can play a 100% solid game. They do make mistakes, or at least get beaten by opponents every now and then. 

I probably wouldn't change my gameplans because of this sort of a goal, unless it was a repeating occurrence.

[looping]

3 minutes ago, Deep-Lying Goalkeeper said:

Get a better fullback & goalie? But then again, no players can play a 100% solid game. They do make mistakes, or at least get beaten by opponents every now and then. 

I probably wouldn't change my gameplans because of this sort of a goal, unless it was a repeating occurrence.

 

10 minutes ago, NoTekkersRB said:

You need to look at the build up play before, not sure those seventeen seconds is enough

 

Seconds before the goal:

https://vid.me/CbVw

[Deep-Lying Goalkeeper]

4 minutes ago, looping said:

 

 

Seconds before the goal:

https://vid.me/CbVw

I'd say your midfielders are closing way too much. 

In my opinion the two central midfielders are the absolute key players of a 4-4-2 formation, no matter what your mentality or shape is. They are the players who should keep their positions when defending - in your clip they just aren't doing so. If you want someone to close down, MR and ML are "safer" options. 

 

[looping]

6 minutes ago, Deep-Lying Goalkeeper said:

I'd say your midfielders are closing way too much. 

In my opinion the two central midfielders are the absolute key players of a 4-4-2 formation, no matter what your mentality or shape is. They are the players who should keep their positions when defending - in your clip they just aren't doing so. If you want someone to close down, MR and ML are "safer" options. 

 

cm-de, cm-su, am-su. No PI, no TI. Fluid shape.

Too much closing down caused by attributes, then? Should I be concerned by high levels of aggression? In this case, give Pi close down less to my cm-de who has close down more Pi by default?

[NoTekkersRB]

13 minutes ago, Deep-Lying Goalkeeper said:

I'd say your midfielders are closing way too much. 

In my opinion the two central midfielders are the absolute key players of a 4-4-2 formation, no matter what your mentality or shape is. They are the players who should keep their positions when defending - in your clip they just aren't doing so. If you want someone to close down, MR and ML are "safer" options. 

 

This.

Closing down way too much. You say you want to sit back, you probably want two banks of 4 right? 

[Deep-Lying Goalkeeper]

4 minutes ago, looping said:

cm-de, cm-su, am-su. No PI, no TI. Fluid shape.

Too much closing down caused by attributes, then? Should I be concerned by high levels of aggression? In this case, give Pi close down less to my cm-de who has close down more Pi by default?

Too much closing caused by default settings. I assume you are playing standard fluid. That means your players are closing by default more than in counter, and a lot more than in defend. Instruct both of your CM's to close down much less and see what happens. The AM is not so crucial.

[BadAss88]

I would say your D-line was to deep which created a lot of space  in front of your defense to pass the ball around. So maybe push them a bit higher and see what happens. Not sure about the next thing but I would've liked some player to tackle the ball so maybe try 'Get Stuck In' TI, not sure about this as I don't use it myself but then someone would step in earlier to tackle.

[looping]

1 minute ago, NoTekkersRB said:

This.

Closing down way too much. You say you want to sit back, you probably want two banks of 4 right? 

Yes.

1 minute ago, Deep-Lying Goalkeeper said:

Too much closing caused by default settings. I assume you are playing standard fluid. That means your players are closing by default more than in counter, and a lot more than in defend. Instruct both of your CM's to close down much less and see what happens. The AM is not so crucial.

Sorry, forgot mentality. Counter+fluid. No TI, No PI (apart from PI by default). If I tell my cm to close down less I'll need somebody hassling opposition and this job could be done by my am-su, so I could tell him to close down more?

[looping]

3 minutes ago, BadAss88 said:

I would say your D-line was to deep which created a lot of space  in front of your defense to pass the ball around. So maybe push them a bit higher and see what happens. Not sure about the next thing but I would've liked some player to tackle the ball so maybe try 'Get Stuck In' TI, not sure about this as I don't use it myself but then someone would step in earlier to tackle.

This was my first impression. More aggression and less space needed in front of my box