Kussual Posted October 19, 2016 Share Posted October 19, 2016 Hi~Can someone please explain to me what Attributes do I need for Data Analyst and for Chief Data Analyst? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kazza Posted October 19, 2016 Share Posted October 19, 2016 I looked at a set of attributes for these guys in a Premiership team and took that as my template. They come under scouting in staff job search so Judging Potential/Ability etc. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Powermonger Posted October 19, 2016 Share Posted October 19, 2016 I think Neil said this morning that there were no key stats for them. Maybe there needs to be some new staff stats added to FM for the new role, such as Match Analysis. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
eriktous Posted October 19, 2016 Share Posted October 19, 2016 Apparently you don't need any skills to be a data analyst. They could have gone with tactical knowledge, if you'd ask me. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
phnompenhandy Posted October 19, 2016 Share Posted October 19, 2016 You would think tactical knowledge would be relevant. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
eriktous Posted October 19, 2016 Share Posted October 19, 2016 The feature seems a bit bolted on as an afterthought now. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
herne79 Posted October 19, 2016 Share Posted October 19, 2016 Data Analyst does indeed have no required attributes. Sports Scientist requires Fitness and affects the Jadedness of players. If anyone thinks there is room for improvement, add it into the FM17 Beta Feedback Thread or start a thread in the Feature Requests forum . Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
phnompenhandy Posted October 19, 2016 Share Posted October 19, 2016 My chairman won't allow me a data analyst. He says I can ask the tea lady if I have any questions But seriously, without a DA, what screens are inaccessible? And how does the info he provides differ depending on his/her quality? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
herne79 Posted October 19, 2016 Share Posted October 19, 2016 12 minutes ago, phnompenhandy said: My chairman won't allow me a data analyst. He says I can ask the tea lady if I have any questions But seriously, without a DA, what screens are inaccessible? And how does the info he provides differ depending on his/her quality? The Data Analyst provides a pre and post match news item to your Inbox that contains (yup you guessed it) some analysis info. See example report at the bottom. You'll note various tabs across the top where you access things such as heat maps, passing analysis, and mistakes. Some (not all !) of this can be seen in the post match stats & reports, and these reports generate a nice overview/summary. As far as I'm aware, there is no "quality" of a Data Analyst (and thus no reporting difference) as there are no required attributes. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
phnompenhandy Posted October 19, 2016 Share Posted October 19, 2016 Cheers, so it's like getting your scout to report on the next opposition; no matter whether is JPA/JPP atts are 20/20 or 1/1, you get the same report. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tyro Posted October 19, 2016 Share Posted October 19, 2016 1 hour ago, herne79 said: Data Analyst does indeed have no required attributes. Sports Scientist requires Fitness and affects the Jadedness of players. If anyone thinks there is room for improvement, add it into the FM17 Beta Feedback Thread or start a thread in the Feature Requests forum . Ah well, it seems I got the wrong guy then. I have to check at home how high his fitness stat is but I focused on the physio one as I thought it involves prevention of injuries. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
phd_angel Posted October 21, 2016 Share Posted October 21, 2016 So, if there is no criteria, then are all data analysts the same?!... I was considering "world reputation" as a criteria, but it seems that tactical knowledge is somewhat more important (and, of course, Excel spreadsheet skills... ;-) PS: Since I'm currently managing a small club (Reggina in Italy Div 3), I may fill this position as a part-time job. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tarzanofmars Posted October 21, 2016 Share Posted October 21, 2016 If you look at the data analysts on the AI teams, 'Adaptability' seems to be their highest attribute, it's what I went for in hiring. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pdstanbridge Posted October 21, 2016 Share Posted October 21, 2016 I was wondering this as well. It's a shame that there are no prerequsite stats required by this position. But I guess it would over complicate the issue. I think tactical knowledge should be a dead cert for this role. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RiverReveal666 Posted October 21, 2016 Share Posted October 21, 2016 I dont think creating a few prerequisite stats for a new staff role SI have created would over complicate the issue that much, if anything it would make it more user friendly if when they created a new staff role they said this role achieves x. To best achieve x then the member of staff needs attributes y. The problem with this role is that it seems to have just been added as an extra role for the sake of it, so whoever you pick for the role does it the same as its not tied to specific attributes. The role seems to act as a check box to add a few UI pieces of information at certain points.Which is fine I guess, but when you are used to in game players and other members of staffs attributes having a tangible effect on what they can do, its not very intuitive when a role just gets bolted on without the same level of simulation applied to them. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Wright 747 Posted October 21, 2016 Share Posted October 21, 2016 On 19/10/2016 at 11:17, phnompenhandy said: My chairman won't allow me a data analyst. He says I can ask the tea lady if I have any questions But seriously, without a DA, what screens are inaccessible? And how does the info he provides differ depending on his/her quality? Good point will the board block the appointment of a data analyst at non league clubs as i doubt there are many clubs in the lower reaches of the English pyramid that employs a data analyst Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
phnompenhandy Posted October 21, 2016 Share Posted October 21, 2016 1 minute ago, Tony Wright 747 said: Good point will the board block the appointment of a data analyst at non league clubs as i doubt there are many clubs in the lower reaches of the English pyramid that employs a data analyst That's what happened. I offered a guy the job and he accepted but the board blocked it. I'm part-time Edinburgh City. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Wright 747 Posted October 21, 2016 Share Posted October 21, 2016 5 minutes ago, phnompenhandy said: That's what happened. I offered a guy the job and he accepted but the board blocked it. I'm part-time Edinburgh City. Thanks, I wonder what is the lowest level where clubs can employ a data analyst Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
noikeee Posted October 21, 2016 Share Posted October 21, 2016 I guess we can just hire the cheapest available data analyst then. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
phnompenhandy Posted October 21, 2016 Share Posted October 21, 2016 1 minute ago, noikeee said: I guess we can just hire the cheapest available data analyst then. It would be easy enough to do an experiment in the beta: fire up a new save with a top-level side, hire the best and monitor. Start again, hire the worst and compare. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
yipster1986 Posted October 21, 2016 Share Posted October 21, 2016 For a Data Analyst I feel Tactical Knowledge and Judging Player Ability should be very prominent attributes to have Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
phnompenhandy Posted October 21, 2016 Share Posted October 21, 2016 2 minutes ago, yipster1986 said: For a Data Analyst I feel Tactical Knowledge and Judging Player Ability should be very prominent attributes to have SHOULD - very much so, yet they aren't required. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
thatdamgood Posted October 21, 2016 Share Posted October 21, 2016 On 10/19/2016 at 09:36, Kazza said: I looked at a set of attributes for these guys in a Premiership team and took that as my template. They come under scouting in staff job search so Judging Potential/Ability etc. I do think this has been a bolted on as a rushed addition. To not even have any stats in which you could base your staff selection on to improve is crazy!! I'm going to really look into this over the weekend. I may try and get a guide out on Youtube to help people get their heads around it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Powermonger Posted October 21, 2016 Share Posted October 21, 2016 I think a new Mental attribute for staff needs to be added [Analysis]. This would make more sense for the new role then trying to make the other existing attributes work, I feel they are like trying to push a square peg in a round hole. Someone might have tactical knowledge but have no analysis skills. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
noikeee Posted October 21, 2016 Share Posted October 21, 2016 But then you'd need to have the analysis generated to be less or more accurate (or less or more complete) depending on the Data Analyst's abilities. I don't think that's worth the trouble. Then again I don't see the point of adding staff to the game if they're not going to do anything. It's just an extra guy to hire, more pointless clicks. Apparently the only interesting thing about this feature is if you have a Data Analyst you get a detailed report, and if you don't, then you don't get anything. I get it that on the San Marino 2nd division it'd be unrealistic to be handed out reports with heatmaps and stuff, but still. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
enigmatic Posted October 21, 2016 Share Posted October 21, 2016 If they're not going to have attributes make a difference, which is a reasonable idea if they want the reports to actually be useful (not knowing whether bad advice from an assman is due to their limitations and tactical biases or general limitations of the system is annoying) it would presumably make more sense to just hide all their attributes, like they've done for board members (whose attributes do make a difference, but you can't replace them with better ones...) so it's clear you might as well select them based on who is cheapest or has the funniest regen face. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
eriktous Posted October 21, 2016 Share Posted October 21, 2016 On 10/19/2016 at 12:03, herne79 said: Data Analyst does indeed have no required attributes. Sports Scientist requires Fitness and affects the Jadedness of players. Apparently the Sports Scientist doesn't have any required attributes either. See the following thread from the bug forum. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
phnompenhandy Posted October 21, 2016 Share Posted October 21, 2016 Sports Scientists are supposed to require Fitness. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
eriktous Posted October 21, 2016 Share Posted October 21, 2016 Have you read the thread I linked? Apparently Herne misspoke about that one. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
phnompenhandy Posted October 21, 2016 Share Posted October 21, 2016 2 minutes ago, eriktous said: Have you read the thread I linked? Apparently Herne misspoke about that one. Oh, no I hadn't. That's interesting - these two staff additions do seem to have been introduced in a half-assed manner. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Wright 747 Posted October 21, 2016 Share Posted October 21, 2016 43 minutes ago, noikeee said: But then you'd need to have the analysis generated to be less or more accurate (or less or more complete) depending on the Data Analyst's abilities. I don't think that's worth the trouble. Then again I don't see the point of adding staff to the game if they're not going to do anything. It's just an extra guy to hire, more pointless clicks. Apparently the only interesting thing about this feature is if you have a Data Analyst you get a detailed report, and if you don't, then you don't get anything. I get it that on the San Marino 2nd division it'd be unrealistic to be handed out reports with heatmaps and stuff, but still. That is my point at lower league level it would be unrealistic to employ data analysists so you would not receive detailed reports, I would like to know how far down the pyramid it is realistic to employ data analyst and sports scientists. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
herne79 Posted October 21, 2016 Share Posted October 21, 2016 18 minutes ago, eriktous said: Apparently the Sports Scientist doesn't have any required attributes either. See the following thread from the bug forum. 17 minutes ago, phnompenhandy said: Sports Scientists are supposed to require Fitness. It's under review. I've previously been given one piece of information, now we're seeing something different, so we're just waiting for clarification. No big deal and part of the fun of Beta . Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
phnompenhandy Posted October 21, 2016 Share Posted October 21, 2016 Sure. As a lower league manager this doesn't affect me anyway - I'm just watching from the sidelines. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RiverReveal666 Posted October 21, 2016 Share Posted October 21, 2016 4 hours ago, enigmatic said: If they're not going to have attributes make a difference, which is a reasonable idea if they want the reports to actually be useful (not knowing whether bad advice from an assman is due to their limitations and tactical biases or general limitations of the system is annoying) it would presumably make more sense to just hide all their attributes, like they've done for board members (whose attributes do make a difference, but you can't replace them with better ones...) so it's clear you might as well select them based on who is cheapest or has the funniest regen face. The last line made me smile, but is actually part of the problem. I see a video announcing new features, I see the new role of data analyst and I think: great, even more depth to staffing, do Man Utd have one already ect. But actually all the depth boils down to is who has the funniest regen face. Id rather them just tag on the same data analysis UI screens to the assistant manager role by ticking a check box and be pleasantly suprised when i first play the game rather than make it look like a cool new feature in video. A few years ago every new role seemed to have depth to it, now they dont even need attributes apparently. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikelfc8 Posted October 21, 2016 Share Posted October 21, 2016 It does seem a bit of an incomplete addition. I imagine it will be developed further in the next iteration. As a side note, the only other useful thing that leaps to mind about signing staff members who don't need specific attributes is can they increase my club scouting knowledge? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
larsson-is-god Posted October 21, 2016 Share Posted October 21, 2016 13 hours ago, phnompenhandy said: That's what happened. I offered a guy the job and he accepted but the board blocked it. I'm part-time Edinburgh City. Did you try and hire a 'Data Analyst' or a 'Chief Data Analyst'? Reason I ask is that I got blocked by the board in hiring a 'Data Analyst' but was allowed to hire a 'Chief Data Analyst' Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
phd_angel Posted October 21, 2016 Share Posted October 21, 2016 I hired an analyst with 2-star world reputation. Out of a sudden, 10 clubs came up to poach him. I lost him, but made a little dough as compensation... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom14 Posted October 21, 2016 Share Posted October 21, 2016 Well Miles said that the new staff roles were inspired by meeting people doing these jobs at Watford? Maybe the Watford data analyst didn't persuade him that it wasn't a job any shmuck could do, i.e. you need no discernable talent to do it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
phnompenhandy Posted October 22, 2016 Share Posted October 22, 2016 1 hour ago, larsson-is-god said: Did you try and hire a 'Data Analyst' or a 'Chief Data Analyst'? Reason I ask is that I got blocked by the board in hiring a 'Data Analyst' but was allowed to hire a 'Chief Data Analyst' Hmm, just tried - also blocked. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thermaltake Posted October 30, 2016 Share Posted October 30, 2016 I agree with tactical knowledge being a must for data analyst, i think jpa & jpp are also a must. jpp is basically saying, "is this guy a match winner?" As a manager, you would want to know that, i know i would, very useful pre match. obviously, the original ddm wouldn't go a miss Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
phd_angel Posted October 30, 2016 Share Posted October 30, 2016 On 10/21/2016 at 17:18, brookie1402 said: Well Miles said that the new staff roles were inspired by meeting people doing these jobs at Watford? Maybe the Watford data analyst didn't persuade him that it wasn't a job any shmuck could do, i.e. you need no discernable talent to do it. Excellent point. It makes me think to what extend FM is gaining a Watford-bias direction in game development. (By "Watford bias" I do not mean, favoring that club to win in the PC game, but rather in developing FM in the mold of Watford's football management style and its specific realities in the Premier League. Consequently, this bias could neglect the experiences of global-level mega clubs or smaller struggling Third-World clubs). This deserves a separate thread in itself. Cheers. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cns180784 Posted November 3, 2016 Share Posted November 3, 2016 Whats the difference between a chief data analyst and just a data analyst? Also i have two data analysts in my U18's and a bigger club has just offered a contract to one. Will this affect my overall data analysis for my U18's if this guy goes and i'm left with one? cant see it being a problem- should only need one. Oh and someone mentioned that the AI seem to favour data analysts with high adaptability...well the one that Stoke are trying to poach from me has a 20 for that. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
danthemanwhocan Posted November 3, 2016 Share Posted November 3, 2016 Has anyone thought that maybe the skills of a Data Analyst are not attributes which are part of the staff attributes in game? I would imagine their expertise would be in interpreting the data into easy to consume chunks. Not to then make recommendations on what to do with that- therefore tactical knowledge, etc. is a non attribute for them. Just here is the information, make the changes you wish, do with this what you want, you made 200 sideways passes, if that's what your tactic is about, great. If not I will show you the numbers the next game to see if it fits your philosophy. At least, I don't remember my Data Analysts doing that in my save; my annoying assistant manager would make tactical recommendations, not the data analyst. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikelfc8 Posted November 3, 2016 Share Posted November 3, 2016 1 hour ago, danthemanwhocan said: Has anyone thought that maybe the skills of a Data Analyst are not attributes which are part of the staff attributes in game? I would imagine their expertise would be in interpreting the data into easy to consume chunks. Not to then make recommendations on what to do with that- therefore tactical knowledge, etc. is a non attribute for them. Just here is the information, make the changes you wish, do with this what you want, you made 200 sideways passes, if that's what your tactic is about, great. If not I will show you the numbers the next game to see if it fits your philosophy. At least, I don't remember my Data Analysts doing that in my save; my annoying assistant manager would make tactical recommendations, not the data analyst. That's a good point. It would still be nice to have to put in a little more effort in the choosing though. 7 hours ago, cns180784 said: Whats the difference between a chief data analyst and just a data analyst? Also i have two data analysts in my U18's and a bigger club has just offered a contract to one. Will this affect my overall data analysis for my U18's if this guy goes and i'm left with one? cant see it being a problem- should only need one. Oh and someone mentioned that the AI seem to favour data analysts with high adaptability...well the one that Stoke are trying to poach from me has a 20 for that. My guess is that there is no real difference, a bit like chief scout and scout, they are just different slots to fill on the staff roster but do essentially the same job. The chief analyst will probably be nominally the one who sends you the report, just like the chief scout sending you the reports from the rest of the scouting team. I think that, so long as you have at least one data analyst for each squad you should be fine. SI have confirmed that no specific attributes are requited for either data analysts or sports scientists. Just put any one in place and the job will be done to the same standard. Personally, I try to ensure they have scouting knowledge of countries I don't already possess a little more challenging and extra-beneficial. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
xtradj Posted November 3, 2016 Share Posted November 3, 2016 Pointless then isn't it. Might as well sign the cheapest person even with minimum stats Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikelfc8 Posted November 3, 2016 Share Posted November 3, 2016 6 minutes ago, xtradj said: Pointless then isn't it. Might as well sign the cheapest person even with minimum stats Yep, pointless to worry about which one you get, but still worth getting one. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
qaz Posted November 3, 2016 Share Posted November 3, 2016 On a similar but slightly different track. I heard similar complaints on here about the physio in the past. That it wouldn't affect injuries just give a better estimation of when players would return . Is this still/was this ever the case? I haven't played fm17 yet, but I don't recall ever seeing a message suggesting my club hires more or less phyios (taking into account squad size, regularity of games, etc) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BamBamBam Posted November 10, 2016 Share Posted November 10, 2016 So, let me get this straight, it doesn't matter who you get in as a data analyst, all do the exact same job at the same standard? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
KUBI Posted November 10, 2016 Share Posted November 10, 2016 Just now, BamBamBam said: So, let me get this straight, it doesn't matter who you get in as a data analyst, all do the exact same job at the same standard? True. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BamBamBam Posted November 10, 2016 Share Posted November 10, 2016 Just now, KUBI said: True. Pointless. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.