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Football Manager 2017 Pre-Release Beta Feedback Thread

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Borussia Dortmund at the moment. Real football.

Bildschirmfoto 2016-10-24 um 00.36.24.jpg

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14 minutes ago, Ignats75 said:

I've been playing this game for years.  FM17 is the first time I've seen injuries like this.

I am managing Stoke City.  We are still in the run up to the start of the season.  I have 9 players out injured right now.  Half of them are AT LEAST 4 months out.  TWO are 9-10 months.  This seems way worse than the past games.  Tell me I'm wrong.  (Straight man set up) ;):stop:

It just happens.

People expect injuries to even themselves out throughout the season but like anything else e.g. bus arrivals, they happen in clumps. Its part of the nature of random chance elements (where that is relevant). Sometimes you'll get periods where you're relatively injury-free (which we don't tend to notice), other times they'll happen all at once, and sometimes all in the same position. Its just the way it is and part of being a manager is managing your way through that kind of adversity.

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Can you tell me how a player, under no pressure whatsoever, fails to make the red line pass in the 90th minute, when he has:

Passing: 13

Technique: 16

Composure: 14

Concentration: 13

Decisions: 14

Instead, he makes the blue line pass, which is intercepted, resulting in a 91st minute equaliser :mad: 

Talk about bloody suicidal!

What is more annoying than the mistake, is that nothing at all is made of it.  No choice in the team talk to berate him for it and no question from the media about it.

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1 hour ago, KUBI said:

Borussia Dortmund at the moment. Real football.

Bildschirmfoto 2016-10-24 um 00.36.24.jpg

 

REAL football

 

p4f6OF7.jpg

 

Which isn't meant to be a defensive of the game. Rather that FM outside of really rotten luck and then some has consistently failed to create the woes actual top class staff go through -- on purpose. That's the guys who know their stuff rather than let their players tackle hard on high level fitness training the entire season and no listening to scout reports prior to signing the men of glass and even if they don't do wrong take it on the chin like men and carry on. All of this impacts squad management, transfer policy and the development of the database, as injuries affect player development across the entire save.

For future releases it may be a viable feature to be able to turn on/off the injuries edited into the db at the start of the game though. Similar to the remaining transfer kitties which either can be turned on or off. Whilst pre- and early season crysis of 12 players out and more aren't at all unheard of at all, it would ease the frustration for some as at least they won't feel additionally punished for their predecessor's supposedly wrongdoings. Sure, it's not realistic. But then the 75-80% in-game levels of injuries reported by SI compared to real football aren't either. Or anybody of us taking over at Old Trafford to begin with and dealing with the mess been left behind. ;-)

Edited by Svenc

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1 hour ago, KUBI said:

Borussia Dortmund at the moment. Real football.

Bildschirmfoto 2016-10-24 um 00.36.24.jpg

 

I think people prefer more Real football in the Match Engine and less on injuries. Just my opinion.

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1 hour ago, Altair said:

 

I think people prefer more Real football in the Match Engine and less on injuries. Just my opinion.


A viably point, though naturally there are connections. I think people first and foremost prefer a fun game, of which there is nothing at all wrong with. Some "people" may too prefer more real football in the match engine too -- as long as that real football doesn't involve the following:

- top players on any level actually regularly missing one on ones and clear cuts (as tends to happen in real football)
- top players on any level producing outright mediocre football on the occasion and committing errors and bad choices (as tends to happen in real football)
- unrealistic, one-dimensional tactics leading to a struggle to break defenses down, and a dependency of individual moves by superior players to save the day (as tends to happen in football)
- aggressive play encouraged over the course of an entire season and 90 minutes of every match wearing players out (as tends to happen in real football)
- overly attacking play encouraged over 90 minutes prone to getting hit by soft goals on the break, whilst vice versa keeping things tight makes it really really hard to convert
- AI managers interacting with the engine in actually competitive ways, being able to utilize some of the above
- etc.

Similarily to injuries, all of  this can be hugely frustrating. It shows in user reviews and feedback every year. It makes matches more tight, it is bound to additionally punish really poorly thought out tactics that violate the basics of any team sports down to school levels, it makes it more likely that better set up AI teams actually convert their fewer shots on target, and make players more likely to pick up additionally knocks -- "Regularly up to 12 players out injured, my players fail to convert more than half of their clear cuts chances, AI regularly scores with first shot on target even if its the dead last and you have Messi, never been fixed, not going to buy this ever again". There is nothing wrong with voicing frustration here, and it is worth investigating for actually genuinelly bugs, always. On SI's behalf it is worth asking themselves whether in the post-manual era of digital distribution publishing such FAQ is enough. http://www.footballmanager.com/support/faqs/football-manager-2016 But talking about "real football", that's just an observation after many many releases that attempted to tackle the one or other issue mentioned above in the pursuit of "real football" and a more "realistic match engine". :-)

The only way they'd get rid of severe crysis would be scripting it into the game that there would never be a higher number of x players out, which is not how things work in football. However with such a big player base, somebody will always report something which is actually far away from the average, this goes both ways (see the last page). See also the yearly reports of missed penalties from hugely small sample sizes of like a couple of kicks. In a sense, this is art imitating life and vice versa, as every year you too see short trends being mistaken for actually performance indicators, be it the forward who peaks early to never even start again in the latter stages, or (which seems a particularly German thing) news announcing the death of all home advantage in football -- every season after 3 match days, when by the end things unsurprisingly look pretty much the same as any season previous. That's like marrying the girl after the first date -- if you're lucky, it might actually work. Usually people don't tend to rely on purely chance though, it can cost dearly. Unless it comes to all things football, that is.

Unlike here, players tend to exclusively focus on their own teams though. That isn't even a sample size, it's biased one and barely a blip. It's really nothing new, and it's being picked up by game news outlets previous, actually. http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2015-11-19-football-manager-injuries Everybody who has ever played for a longer period of time and went beyond that first season with but one team knows that the game has never quite replicated real football here either way, which certainly goes for FM 2016, and that some feedback could be dismissed -- like the aforementioned 6 players injured after 4 matches, which is really nothing to note about given the game's target. There are teams that average 6-8 players out for bulks of the season in just about any league, teams go into season prep with a dozen players missing, and 3-5 at any point of the season out could be considered perfectly normal.

Now whether that is fun to anyone is an entirely different matter. This matter may be the reason why they target injuries to be a good -20-25% off football. With that it's still very very far off video gaming's most popular football franchise, Fifa, which evidently clouds people's perception on the actual sports everywhere. Rotten thing -- who can afford to name it's biggest franchise after such a shady organization anyway, more importantly, who WOULD? :D

Edited by Svenc

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I just logged in to mirror some of these complaints. I am playing as Dortmund and face a new major injury every week. It's kind of getting absurd. I don't mind injuries, but I haven't had fewer than 10 first team players out for any match since the season began. If this rate of attrition keeps up, I'll be playing all youth players by the end of the year. Thank god I had focused on signing depth rather than a big name in the pre-season. I basically rotate my entire squad every game, so it is likely not due to fatigue... There's just no way the current injury setting is adding 'realism' to the game.

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Is a team trying to catch a goaltender napping with a shot at kickoff a new feature?  Because I hadn't seen it before, and Whitehawk just tried it on me and almost pulled it off.

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A small tip for those with injury problems. In both my MLS and Championship save, I play a high pressing game and only work with a squad with 18-19 players. I don't remember I have more than 2 players injured at any point of time. You need to give players ample time to rest if your team is on a 3 games a week schedule. I always give my players 2 days of rest after each game for these kind of hectic week.

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I have had almost no injuries at all in the beta. But I leave all training duties to my assistant managers and coaches.

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I've played this game going all the way back to CM 01/02.  I've never seen anything like this.  Its not the number, its the severity.  They're ALL devistating long term injuries.  two weeks into the EPL season and I picked up another one.  Whelan out three months.   8 of my 24 registered players are out A MINIMUM of 3 months.  I don't necessarily think the number of injuries is too bad, its the severity of every one of them thats aggravating.  I may go back to FM16 and wait for the fix.

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23 minutes ago, Ignats75 said:

I've played this game going all the way back to CM 01/02.  I've never seen anything like this.  Its not the number, its the severity.  They're ALL devistating long term injuries.  two weeks into the EPL season and I picked up another one.  Whelan out three months.   8 of my 24 registered players are out A MINIMUM of 3 months.  I don't necessarily think the number of injuries is too bad, its the severity of every one of them thats aggravating.  I may go back to FM16 and wait for the fix.

I've had a fairly steady stream of injuries, but only one that was at least 3 months.

Edited by Warhawk

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@Warhawk @Zink2 Did either of you go through the FAQ? There's a section under gameplay that mentions injuries and dealing with it. There may be a few useful tips there.

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22 minutes ago, HUNT3R said:

@Warhawk @Zink2 Did either of you go through the FAQ? There's a section under gameplay that mentions injuries and dealing with it. There may be a few useful tips there.

When I say "steady stream" I mean I usually had 2 or 3 at one time, occasionally 4 or 1.

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1 minute ago, Warhawk said:

When I say "steady stream" I mean I usually had 2 or 3 at one time, occasionally 4 or 1.

Ah, I understand. No issues there then. :)

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19 minutes ago, HUNT3R said:

Ah, I understand. No issues there then. :)

Yeah, I was just chipping in to say that I've had a decent quantity of injuries, but mostly short term.  I just added it up, I'm almost through March of my first season and my (admittedly relatively large for VNL) first team squad has had a combined approximately 19 months of injury time split up over 27 injuries.

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Just now, Warhawk said:

Yeah, I was just chipping in to say that I've had a decent quantity of injuries, but mostly short term.  I just added it up, I'm almost through March of my first season and my (admittedly relatively large for VNL) first team squad has had a combined approximately 19 months of injury time split up over 27 injuries.

I'm sitting with 4 out injured atm. 2 of them for 6+ weeks. It sucks, but it gives others a chance to show me what they can do. I've actually been surprised by one youngster who I didn't think much of. It may well be that I keep him in the team even if the first team player returns from injury!

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How do I add my custom database/league (editor data) in FM 2017?

Maybe it's impossible while in BETA mode?

Edited by amadeo

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3 hours ago, Viking said:

I have had almost no injuries at all in the beta. But I leave all training duties to my assistant managers and coaches.

this .. albeit that I've set up my training myself - preseason I had fitness = average :thup: 

one injury during the entire preseason which was during a match - 12-14 days out

im blaming the training :idiot:

 

Edited by Fritz13

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3 hours ago, Ignats75 said:

 I may go back to FM16 and wait for the fix.

You might be waiting a while then, because I'm pretty sure it doesn't need 'fixed'.  As far as I know, SI haven't touched the injury module in years. 

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I look to some matches player stats and realize a very low number of key passes compared with FM2016. I don't know if this is a bug.

For example I had played first official match with Benfica against Braga, the total of both teams wasn't no more than 10 key passes, very low compared with FM2016. We won 3-2 :)

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20 minutes ago, inacion said:

I look to some matches player stats and realize a very low number of key passes compared with FM2016. I don't know if this is a bug.

For example I had played first official match with Benfica against Braga, the total of both teams wasn't no more than 10 key passes, very low compared with FM2016. We won 3-2 :)

That's actually good thing, IRL key passes are very low, and maybe FM is reassessing how they classify key passes. IRL team create on average 13-14 key passes a game, and these are the best teams.

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8 hours ago, martplfc1 said:

Can you tell me how a player, under no pressure whatsoever, fails to make the red line pass in the 90th minute, when he has:

Passing: 13

Technique: 16

Composure: 14

Concentration: 13

Decisions: 14

Instead, he makes the blue line pass, which is intercepted, resulting in a 91st minute equaliser :mad: 

Talk about bloody suicidal!

What is more annoying than the mistake, is that nothing at all is made of it.  No choice in the team talk to berate him for it and no question from the media about it.

Why is every single player in the opp penalty area in the 91st minute when you're leading 1-0 is the question I'd ask. At least two to three players should be back, namely the CBs and perhaps one FB.

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Valid point. Doesn't detract from my point though does it. An international footballer should make that pass 100 times out of 100.

In any event, if my mentality is set to standard (which it was), shouldn't the game assess the situation better and leave more players back? I don't mess with free kicks myself, so one would hope it'd be smart enough to make some attempt to protect the lead.

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31 minutes ago, bluearmy19 said:

That's actually good thing, IRL key passes are very low, and maybe FM is reassessing how they classify key passes. IRL team create on average 13-14 key passes a game, and these are the best teams.

True, on FM16 sometimes a player has 6 key passes and when I look to profile his pass and vision attributes aren't good. Looks like they are improving key passes stats.

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This isn't a complaint, just something that always makes me laugh. Why when there is hardly any supporters in the stadium, would you choose to stand behind a walled dug out. Really enjoying my first taste of beta. If only i was better at making a good tactic.  

Edited by Guest
bad english

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Edinson Cavani has been over-weakened, please adjust his technical attributes!

He is current top goalscorer in South America WCQ and Ligue 1 , but look at his arrributes! 

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6 minutes ago, zhangzhifake said:

Edinson Cavani has been over-weakened, please adjust his technical attributes!

He is current top goalscorer in South America WCQ and Ligue 1 , but look at his arrributes! 

Attribute changes will only be considered if a reasoned argument can be made as to why they need changing. So if you can make a reasonable argument for changing something and you have 'evidence' backing up your claims, please post in the PSG thread in the Data Issues section of the bugs forum.

That said, researchers often recommend to play the game and see how he performs in-game, rather than just going on attribute "looks". Is he under-performing in-game?

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Anyone else noticed the extremely low shot-on-target ratio? Leo Messi is currently averaging 23% shot-on-target ratio, even though my team instructions is to play a really slow tempo and try to work the ball into the box...

Screen Shot 2016-10-24 at 11.40.12 AM.png

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Probably not right place but didn't want create a thread. If I want to turn a prem club say hull into the a rich club. Is there a way to have the headline multi billionaire owner completes takeover of Hull city in the game?

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1 hour ago, martplfc1 said:

Valid point. Doesn't detract from my point though does it. An international footballer should make that pass 100 times out of 100.

In any event, if my mentality is set to standard (which it was), shouldn't the game assess the situation better and leave more players back? I don't mess with free kicks myself, so one would hope it'd be smart enough to make some attempt to protect the lead.

Well TBF, the best players screw up passes once or twice, it's never 100 out of 100, it's more like 98 or even lower. Tap ins should be scored 100 times out of 100, given there's nothing exceptional, like a bad bounce on the ball, but they are scored what 80 times out of 100? We see them missed all the time. Gerrard should be making that pass easy, but he slipped and became meme gold and lost Liverpool the league. Things do happen.

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Witnessed very few injuries here. I've had a player that broke his foot and sat out for 6 months, but it happens. My assman handles the general team training as I've got little interest to do it myself (I concentrate on match training and individual training).

1 hour ago, waraka14 said:

Anyone else noticed the extremely low shot-on-target ratio? Leo Messi is currently averaging 23% shot-on-target ratio, even though my team instructions is to play a really slow tempo and try to work the ball into the box...

 

I'm going to guess it's one of 2 things:

a) the opposition is parking a triple bus because you're Barcelona, and you're playing such a low tempo that they have all the time in the world to organize it, so all those "not on target" shots are actually being blocked by a wall of 20 defenders.

or

b) he's trying wild shots from far out, like I've witnessed happening a little too often no matter the settings.

Nevertheless I agree overall shots on target looks a little off, and I think it's because there's too many blocked shots and too many speculative long shots. This skews the shots on target numbers. However, if they fix this, they'll need to tone down shot accuracy slightly, otherwise there'll be heaps of goals, it's already slightly on the high side.

Edited by noikeee

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6 hours ago, Ignats75 said:

I've played this game going all the way back to CM 01/02.  I've never seen anything like this.  Its not the number, its the severity.  They're ALL devistating long term injuries.  two weeks into the EPL season and I picked up another one.  Whelan out three months.   8 of my 24 registered players are out A MINIMUM of 3 months.  I don't necessarily think the number of injuries is too bad, its the severity of every one of them thats aggravating.  I may go back to FM16 and wait for the fix.

Thats not true as at least one edition had a huge injury issue that was patched out a month or two after it was released. it was around the 2002-2004 era, and I'm sure it happened again later too.

Dont mean to be an arse and point it out, but reading through the thread its annoyed me that so many have made out "it cant be a bug as its never happened before blah blah blah.." 

But this is what the BETA is for. I've had problems with my saves. What FM forgets is that yes, its OK to get injuries, BUT most squads start with many other real life long term injuries in place, so you get screwed twice.  I guess as the game plays out it looks fine, but the start it doesnt

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2 hours ago, martplfc1 said:

In any event, if my mentality is set to standard (which it was), shouldn't the game assess the situation better and leave more players back? I don't mess with free kicks myself, so one would hope it'd be smart enough to make some attempt to protect the lead.

I've had a similar issue. Playing counter-attacking, with the default set piece instructions, only a single player remains at the back, I got constantly counter-attacked on corners, despite being on a cautious mentality. I had to sort out the set pieces manually to keep players back at all times.

Maybe this is worth a bug report.

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I notice a difference on corner kicks, a situation that doesn't happen on FM2016. Sometimes the central defender get the ball but can't shot and assist other player to score, Normally the central just try to shot.

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For those talking about injuries and setting up pre-season Training to focus on Fitness, please be aware of what that actually does.

If you set General Training to Fitness, all you are doing is asking your trainers/players to focus training on your players' Physical attributes.  You will generally only see any improvement in attributes after 3 months of training.  This type of training does not tell your players to "get fit ready for the season".

When setting up training, especially in pre-season when players are unfit, you need to be very wary of player training workload.  Heavier workloads with unfit players can lead to increased injuries.

If you want to get players fit for the coming season, they need to play matches (friendlies).  But if you make unfit players play 90 minutes at the start of pre-season you may also be asking for trouble with injuries.  Try to substitute everyone at half time - even if you have to use some players from your youth team to make up the numbers.  

As players become fitter through pre-season, then (and only then) consider increasing their training workload and/or increasing their match time during friendlies.

Of course it's possible to still pick up injuries regardless of how you set up pre-season, but injuries will become more likely the harder you work your players.

TL;DR if you over work players during pre-season don't be surprised if you pick up several injuries.

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In regards to the spread of short/medium/long term injuries nothing as been changed here from FM16. Frequency of injury and time out injured are two separate things. We expect frequency to be at about 75% that of reality. We expect average time out to be about 18 days across a league. Most will be under this but obviously the odd broken leg brings the average up. These will be best seen in large sample sizes, eg. a whole league over a whole season, if not more.

That being said we would certainly be interested in taking a look at any examples that suggest this is off. Unfortunately we ideally need examples of specific injuries that appear too often rather than injury lengths. Eg. Do you see too many dislocated shoulders rather than too many examples of injuries lasting 8+ weeks. Each injury has an occurrence ratio set in the DB. This obviously excludes recurring injuries. In large sample sizes we would expect to see more occurrences of short term injuries than long term injuries. However despite this we would clearly expect players to spend more time out in total with long term injuries than short due to their nature.

Cheers,
Seb.

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Is there an average of shots per game statistic in the game? I feel that there are generally too many shots in some AI vs AI games.

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10 minutes ago, andu1 said:

Is there an average of shots per game statistic in the game? I feel that there are generally too many shots in some AI vs AI games.

I do not believe there is a stat of this nature in the game, but our internal statistics show the latest ME to be within +/-1.0 shots per game on average of reality.

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Just now, Seb Wassell said:

I do not believe there is a stat of this nature in the game, but our internal statistics show the latest ME to be within +/-1.0 shots per game on average of reality.

Thanks, would be nice to have this stat.

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Has anyone seen defenders making a hash of simple back passes when under little to no pressure?

Granted I'm playing in a lower league but and I've played only a handful of games but seen it 3 or 4 times. Defenders trying to play the ball back to the keeper under no real pressure and sending it out for a corner.

 

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2 hours ago, bluearmy19 said:

Well TBF, the best players screw up passes once or twice, it's never 100 out of 100, it's more like 98 or even lower. Tap ins should be scored 100 times out of 100, given there's nothing exceptional, like a bad bounce on the ball, but they are scored what 80 times out of 100? We see them missed all the time. Gerrard should be making that pass easy, but he slipped and became meme gold and lost Liverpool the league. Things do happen.

No he didn't, that simply did not happen at all ever, no.  :D

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Congratulations the FM 2017 is very good, don´t listening the haters and keep yours good work :applause:

Edited by El_Capone

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Anyone seen that feature Miles was mentioning where you can identify one player(galactico) for transfer? I can't seem to find that option, but I'm managing Gladbach currently, not really a team that buys galacticos so maybe that's why..? Am I missing something?

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Hey guys how is the finishing PPMs in the engine? Do players with "Likes to lob GK" and "likes to round GK" actually try it frequently?

We had in the same week two goals with these in Champions league, Alexis Sanchez scored against Ludogorets by chipping the GK and Messi dribbled Man City GK in one of the goals, but in the game it never happens.

And how is the foot usage, do strikers try to finish with wrong foot too frequently?

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8 minutes ago, luka_ said:

Anyone seen that feature Miles was mentioning where you can identify one player(galactico) for transfer? I can't seem to find that option, but I'm managing Gladbach currently, not really a team that buys galacticos so maybe that's why..? Am I missing something?

I may be wrong but I think what he meant by that is that certain AI managed teams will buy a big name like certain clubs (eg Madrid) do IRL. I'm in my second season and Utd have just spent £82 million on Verratti.

 

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