Football Manager 2017 Features Video

[Double0Seven]

I saw that before, it is all rigged beforehand. Its not real time simulation like SI are trying to achieve, the graphics might be nice but then again Fifa's graphics are nice too so Im not sure why that video is relevant for 'graphics' argument. I too can pull a fifa vid and say "wow what if SI could achieve this". 

[Dovydas]

54 minutes ago, Georgik said:

I've always wondered if SI could buy/implement this type of match engine:

 

It's not even a match engine. It's just a set of completely pre-rendered clips which always has the same outcome. 

 

I really liked the features video and pre-ordered a game after skipping 2015 and 2016 versions. Looks promising. 

[Lord Rowell]

4 hours ago, Welshace said:

I do wonder where this impression that there will be massive wholesale changes and far fetched features come in...

 

Have SI ever done anything but slow consistent improvements year in year out?

Yes re. your later question.

CM2 - use of real players (as opposed to fictional players in CM1 IIRC)

CM4 - first use of a visual match engine (2D)

FM09 - first use of 3D view of match engine

FM11 (I think?) introduction of player conversations

FM14 IIRC, removal of 'sliders'

I'd suggest all of the above represented something beyond slow & consistent change, giving fundamental change to the way the game was played.

I do think though that it is increasingly unrealistic to expect SI to make changes of similar magnitude in the future, because most things have been done now, so incremental change is likely to be more common as opposed to sea change. Nevertheless, I think use of VR, and possible different career paths (i.e. be a DoF, U18 manager etc,) may be possible significant changes in the future.

[KUBI]

The overhaul of the tactical part and removing wiblewoble (with ball, without ball), was also a important move. 

[Dagenham_Dave]

1 hour ago, Ventricity said:

I'm not so sure about "improvements", most of the time it's just slight changes. This year we get more annoying contract negotiations to use hours and hours on. Last year they changed the appearance of the tactics screen to squares. Amazing. 

Yes, that's been the only two changes to the game in the last two years.

[s1111]

3 hours ago, noikeee said:

I got it for 33,5€ from Gamesplanet UK.

That isn't cheaper than the discount. Not since June 23rd anyway....

[noikeee]

7 minutes ago, s1111 said:

That isn't cheaper than the discount. Not since June 23rd anyway....

Maybe prices are different in UK, for me here in Portugal, FM on Steam is at 54,99€. A 20% discount works out at 43,99€. That's 10€ more than what I paid.

[Georgik]

Yep, i was talking about the graphics used in that video ... and thought maybe the guys at SI could have bought that "engine" or set up a partnership with those at Inspired.

I think that the best solution in making a better 3d experience for us would be to make a partnership with a company that focuses only on the 3d aspect ... hard but it would be a dream come true to see such physics ... for the time being i will remain at 2d. As long as the ME is good, i really don't care too much about the 3d (in its current state).

[Double0Seven]

5 minutes ago, Georgik said:

Yep, i was talking about the graphics used in that video ... and thought maybe the guys at SI could have bought that "engine" or set up a partnership with those at Inspired.

I think that the best solution in making a better 3d experience for us would be to make a partnership with a company that focuses only on the 3d aspect ... hard but it would be a dream come true to see such physics ... for the time being i will remain at 2d. As long as the ME is good, i really don't care too much about the 3d (in its current state).

Honestly I dont really understand your argument, this is the WORST solution out there to improve the 3D aspect.

Its probaly bad financially and might be bad for the game as well. Imagine SI outsourcing the 3D graphics, now they have less control of how it looks like, most likely have to explain many factors of the ME to the company trying to replicate that certain ME which will cost a lot of resource/time/money, and also need a lot of people inbetween that have an idea of how the ME works and how the graphics replication of the ME works, they already have these people, but who will do this now they outsource their 3D aspect? They also have a most likely invested in people at their place who are doing the graphics, fire them now? And how can SI be sure the parnert company will actually do what SI wants them to do without constant checking in on them and testing, all in all a nightmare financially, a nightmare to the guys coding the 3D engine who are introduced to something they most likely they havent had as much experience with as the in house coders of SI. The result will be MAYBE a better looking 3D engine, but seriously in the meanwhile SI could have fixed bunch of other issues and not waste their money. 

[noikeee]

1 hour ago, Lord Rowell said:

Yes re. your later question.

CM2 - use of real players (as opposed to fictional players in CM1 IIRC)

CM4 - first use of a visual match engine (2D)

FM09 - first use of 3D view of match engine

FM11 (I think?) introduction of player conversations

FM14 IIRC, removal of 'sliders'

I'd suggest all of the above represented something beyond slow & consistent change, giving fundamental change to the way the game was played.

I do think though that it is increasingly unrealistic to expect SI to make changes of similar magnitude in the future, because most things have been done now, so incremental change is likely to be more common as opposed to sea change. Nevertheless, I think use of VR, and possible different career paths (i.e. be a DoF, U18 manager etc,) may be possible significant changes in the future.

FM13 had a completely new match engine from scratch.

Adding/removing leagues mid-save. The ability to create new leagues with the editor. Dynamic league reputation. Those were some pretty groundbreaking features that seemed impossible prior to their introduction.

Maybe this year's equivalent is 64bit. I shouldn't be saying this because I work in the software industry and I should know these things, but I'm not entirely sure how big the impact of that will be. Maybe it'll make the game much quicker.

[Double0Seven]

3 minutes ago, noikeee said:

FM13 had a completely new match engine from scratch.

Adding/removing leagues mid-save. The ability to create new leagues with the editor. Dynamic league reputation. Those were some pretty groundbreaking features that seemed impossible prior to their introduction.

Maybe this year's equivalent is 64bit. I shouldn't be saying this because I work in the software industry and I should know these things, but I'm not entirely sure how big the impact of that will be. Maybe it'll make the game much quicker.

There is no maybe, it WILL make the game quicker. Confirmed by Miles and its obvious that 64 bit will bring much more for a game like SI where lots of loading and processing is needed. As long as SI didnt screw up majorly when coding we can assume that FM will run quicker. 

[themadsheep2001]

I've made this point before, but 3D is actually vital to improving the engine. Harrying, jostling, all that subtle defending and use of body strength balance to do it, and counter it; in order to improve and more accurate represent that, you need to pin the physics to a 3D model. The more accurate the model, the more accurate the physics, and therefore those bits of the ME

[Cougar2010]

16 minutes ago, Georgik said:

Yep, i was talking about the graphics used in that video ... and thought maybe the guys at SI could have bought that "engine" or set up a partnership with those at Inspired.

As has been said many times that is simply showing limited video sequences to suit whereas FM calculates what is happening on the pitch 8 times every in game second, thats every player, official, the ball etc etc.  From those calculations the graphics have to be created, every single movement.

The graphics in Rush Football are not even close to being able to show what FM calculates on that second by second basis.

 

16 minutes ago, Georgik said:

I think that the best solution in making a better 3d experience for us would be to make a partnership with a company that focuses only on the 3d aspect ... hard but it would be a dream come true to see such physics ... for the time being i will remain at 2d. As long as the ME is good, i really don't care too much about the 3d (in its current state).

Isn't that what they already have to some extent?

They are using motion capture animations created by a partner company which are then adapted to the 3d to show what the ME calculates.

[russianorphan7]

On 10/13/2016 at 12:37, Dagenham_Dave said:

I'll never use that either, or the fantasy draft, or any kind of network play. I'll probably look at the social media stuff at the start as its a novelty, but I can't see myself using that a lot. 

The improvements in the AI on the ME is the BIG change for me, as is the hinted improvement in the AI's transfer dealings. Get those two spot on, and you've got a helluva game without the rest of it. 

Looks like the social media feature is a way to separate the info directly related to the club and the other football news. When both were in the inbox, it got very cluttered and required you to fiddle with subscriptions, which was a pain. 

I agree, a lot of the features that added give some nice depth, but at the end of the day the ability for the AI to compete in the long run through intelligent transfers, team selection, and youth development is the most crucial thing for them to get right. If it is still sub par, the game will have limited playability for me. I like playing with big clubs like Arsenal (lifelong fan), Barca, etc., and the top AI clubs just aren't intelligent enough to compete despite having the resources, especially after a few seasons when I have a youth pipeline in full throttle and have snapped up the best young players.

In reality, the top clubs should do the same as me (as they do in real-life) by competing for the top players, young & exciting talent, and best youth players that they can nurture. In previous games, they could do none of these things adequately. Youth development was non-existent, they wouldn't nurture young talent at all, and too often they would buy top players in positions that were already occupied with top players. Far too frequently, they would just run out the same team of players (despite being jaded) and wouldn't rotate enough to give their best prospects a chance to develop.

[russianorphan7]

On 10/13/2016 at 12:33, Nikopol said:

Solid improvements but nonetheless underwhelming. No major revamp visible. Match Engine looks good though

They added some cool peripheral features that will give some depth. At the end of the day, I think the most important thing they need to do is fix the previously broken, invisible aspects of the game, such as the club management AI e.g. team selection, transfers, youth development, etc. If they can fix those things to create an adequate challenge, then the game's replayability instantly shoots through the roof. For me, the biggest issue was the lack of challenge the deeper I got into saves. It's too easy to create a powerhouse youth academy, snap up the best young and/or world class players, and ultimately develop a team of world beaters (regardless of initial club status) after a few years. The AI club's should be able to have a better long-term view of club development, which mostly means being more aggressive in competing with me for the best players, both first team quality and at the youth level, as well as rotating properly to develop those players while still winning games.

[qwerty22]

I dream about a 3d/2d engine where you can  scout a game and check which players are having a good game or not, who's pacey, great in passing or has a powerful shot.

In the older versions (fm05-06) I used to be able to distinguish a player's style. For example you could sense a pacey winger, A player with great vision or an aggressive terrier!

Right now it all seems identical and the goals are mostly the same sequence which is disappointing.

[Guest]

26 minutes ago, noikeee said:

FM13 had a completely new match engine from scratch.

Adding/removing leagues mid-save. The ability to create new leagues with the editor. Dynamic league reputation. Those were some pretty groundbreaking features that seemed impossible prior to their introduction.

Maybe this year's equivalent is 64bit. I shouldn't be saying this because I work in the software industry and I should know these things, but I'm not entirely sure how big the impact of that will be. Maybe it'll make the game much quicker.

It wasn't a new ME built from the ground up, it just took an extra cycle to get all the new code that was added to work so it was safer to use the FM11 ME code in FM12 instead of using a very unbalanced build which allowed for an extra year of coding & testing.

[PhilT]

Are streakers on the pitch going to be introduced? I reckon on average, every 100th game should involve watching a streaker running round the pitch, with half a dozen cops chasing them. The streaker dodges the cops for half a minute or so, before being rugby tackled to the ground, then led off the pitch in a half-nelson,  to applause from the crowd.

 

[mjk46]

Obviously Kosovo is now in the game so this might be a stupid question as most likely it will be in. Will their league(s) be in the game and am I able to them get them involved in Champions League/Europa or would i have to rebuild the tournaments in the editor to allow that?? Thanks!!!

[HUNT3R]

43 minutes ago, PhilT said:

Are streakers on the pitch going to be introduced?

I hope it was some sort of joke question, but to answer, I'm very confident that it won't be in the game, ever.

[daylight]

2 hours ago, Lord Rowell said:

Yes re. your later question.

CM2 - use of real players (as opposed to fictional players in CM1 IIRC)

Not sure if I am missing something here but they were using real players long before CM2.

[Lord Rowell]

1 hour ago, noikeee said:

FM13 had a completely new match engine from scratch.

Adding/removing leagues mid-save. The ability to create new leagues with the editor. Dynamic league reputation. Those were some pretty groundbreaking features that seemed impossible prior to their introduction.

Maybe this year's equivalent is 64bit. I shouldn't be saying this because I work in the software industry and I should know these things, but I'm not entirely sure how big the impact of that will be. Maybe it'll make the game much quicker.

I don't think it was a new engine, though there was a significant change re. collision detection. I almost included this in my list (in reply to @Welshace ) but I personally felt it was step change rather than sea change.

You may be right re. the 64 bit engine. Also, I read an interview with @Miles Jacobson and, while it is the journalist rather than Miles that says this, there is a comment about the introduction of social media as something the manager has to deal with as being sea change. I will certainly be interested to see how this plays out in the game. Link below for those who are interested.

http://www.watfordobserver.co.uk/sport/14803365.Football_Manager_boss_calls_Watford_association__closest_in_any_game_in_the_world__and_talks_new_features/

As for me, I just want to scan my face into the game #fortysomethinggoingonfouryearsold

[daylight]

It was a new engine I believe, they changed everything that year, including the tactics changing from the sliders.

The fallout was huge.

 

[Whatawaster95]

I've always wanted better graphics in the match engine, FIFA graphics are unrealistic but why can't we get graphics similar to the ones on say for example the old Total Club Manager games?!

[tarzanofmars]

On 10/13/2016 at 13:10, Neil Brock said:

I'd agree that we perhaps need a bit more clarify and feedback in regards to how tactics work in the game, but don't really think there's much need for further roles - I'd certainly struggle to think of a widespread role which isn't in the game, not to mention those that are can generally be tweaked in such a way via the player instructions to make them different.

In regards to how AI handles tactics, there have been 'under the hood' type changes here and I do feel the way teams setup and play are more realistic in FM17 than they ever have been, likewise in terms of team selection. But the proof as they say is in the pudding, so find out for yourself in the pre-release beta or full game. 

Totally agree, the roles are more than enough. The subtle change I made to a really good 4-1-1-3-1 system I use, by changing the deepest midfielder from a halfback to a regista increased my goal output significantly.

Now, has pressing been worked on? Is there anything new to help us replicate Simeone's high press, Guardiola's '6 second rule' or Klopps gegenavalanche? Anything at all? Even PES this year has this area covered quite well.

[Davey Boy]

the best thing SI ever did was remove the sliders it just made the game more realistic tactics wise.

[Sheriff7]

1 hour ago, mjk46 said:

Obviously Kosovo is now in the game so this might be a stupid question as most likely it will be in. Will their league(s) be in the game and am I able to them get them involved in Champions League/Europa or would i have to rebuild the tournaments in the editor to allow that?? Thanks!!!

I think Kosovo is far from have a league to fm my friend..Cyprus have so many years (official national team and league)and still hasen't league in the game..

[The Silence Of The Allams]

2 hours ago, Double0Seven said:

There is no maybe, it WILL make the game quicker. Confirmed by Miles and its obvious that 64 bit will bring much more for a game like SI where lots of loading and processing is needed. As long as SI didnt screw up majorly when coding we can assume that FM will run quicker. 

Can anybody give me a sensible estimate as to what sort of speed increase I can expect with the 64bit version?

 

 I have 4gb of RAM for my aging MacBook Core 2Duo.

[mjk46]

6 minutes ago, Sheriff7 said:

I think Kosovo is far from have a league to fm my friend..Cyprus have so many years (official national team and league)and still hasen't league in the game..

Well as long as the clubs are in the database I will be happy and would create the league from scratch

[KUBI]

2 minutes ago, The Silence Of The Allams said:

Can anybody give me a sensible estimate as to what sort of speed increase I can expect with the 64bit version?

 

 I have 4gb of RAM for my aging MacBook Core 2Duo.

As you can see in that table, some of the older Core2Duo can not use the 64 bit architecture.

http://www.everymac.com/mac-answers/snow-leopard-mac-os-x-faq/mac-os-x-snow-leopard-64-bit-macs-64-bit-efi-boot-in-64-bit-mode.html

[gavo01]

On 14/10/2016 at 15:47, Mith' said:

edition

They only mentioned the Kosovo NT in the video but I would assume that SI have added the correct league teams and players, where possible, so editing their leagues should prove an easier task than of recent years, at least I hope so. 

[daylight]

12 minutes ago, KUBI said:

As you can see in that table, some of the older Core2Duo can not use the 64 bit architecture.

http://www.everymac.com/mac-answers/snow-leopard-mac-os-x-faq/mac-os-x-snow-leopard-64-bit-macs-64-bit-efi-boot-in-64-bit-mode.html

Given he has only 4gb RAM even if it does support 64 bit I doubt he will see any real change if any, 32 bit used up to 4gb I believe.

[KUBI]

32bit did used 2 GB at maximum. So it could make a (small) difference in performance.

[daylight]

But doesn't the 32 bit use around 1 gb for windows alone?

[KUBI]

The minimum specs was always 2GB RAM, so the memory management on a 4GB RAM computer and 64 bit should handle the game a bit faster. The problem with the Mac that he is using is the graphic card and the slow processor. With that setup he can only run a few leagues, so I guess that it makes no difference between 32/64, as the computer itself can not handle bigger saved games.

[GSevensM75]

1 hour ago, daylight said:

Not sure if I am missing something here but they were using real players long before CM2.

You're correct.

I never played the very first Championship Manager game, but that didn't feature real players.  The first one I played was Championship Manager 93 and that definitely did feature real life players.  Championship Manager 2 came out two or three years after that IIRC.

[Dagenham_Dave]

The original CM (red box) was the only one not to feature real player names. 

[Double0Seven]

For those asking about 64 bit, https://www.reddit.com/r/explainlikeimfive/comments/rhe85/eli5_the_difference_between_32bit_and_64bit/ 

 

A great answer on it that also is valid on a programm. 

 

But to clarify a bit more, if your cpu and windows are 64 bit and you have 8gb ram you WILL benefit from it. Otherwise, the improvements are close to 0. 

[daylight]

2 minutes ago, Double0Seven said:

 

But to clarify a bit more, if your cpu and windows are 64 bit and you have 8gb ram you WILL benefit from it. Otherwise, the improvements are close to 0. 

Pretty much what I thought, on 4gb ram there is going to be no improvement, I pretty much think that is what an acceptable level has been even on 32 bit.
Of course it is said you need 2gb but I think that is basically to get the game to actually run.

The 64 bit is certainly more for people with 8gb and above.

[Sheriff7]

52 minutes ago, mjk46 said:

Well as long as the clubs are in the database I will be happy and would create the league    Ofcourse you have this option who is very easy to make...

[eriktous]

2 hours ago, The Silence Of The Allams said:

Can anybody give me a sensible estimate as to what sort of speed increase I can expect with the 64bit version?

To be honest, I don't think anybody can. Not even SI's developers would have been able to give anything more than a very crude estimation of possible performance enhancements before actually testing a 64-bit version of their application. There are just so many variables that enter the equation with such a complex piece of software as I believe FM to be.

The obvious thing, which has been mentioned in this thread, is the increased address space - a larger amount of memory can be used directly by the application. Other things that I haven't seen mentioned are the increased size of the registers and the increased number of registers, which is something that I think can have a significant impact on the speed of applications that handle large amounts of data, like FM does, simply because it allows more data to be kept 'on chip', instead of having to move it between chip and memory.

I'm not completely sure, but I think 64-bit CPUs also have an expanded instruction set in comparison to 32-bit ones, especially instructions aimed at operating on large data structures (SSE, AVX, things like that).

Another thing to consider is the tool chain SI are using to turn their code into the final executable. Simply because 64-bit processors are the most important market segment (that's a guess from my part; I have no sources to back it up), it's to be expected that the compiler vendors direct most of their effort at improving the performance of their 64-bit products.

Now, as I said above, I believe it's impossible to state anything authoritative on possible speed gains coming from the switch to 64-bit, but I'm still excited about its promise, especially since Miles stated that he had been surprised by the improvement it gave when he first got to experience it.

tl;dr: impossible to predict, still excited about the prospect

[yonko]

7 hours ago, KUBI said:

The overhaul of the tactical part and removing wiblewoble (with ball, without ball), was also a important move. 

That and the removal of the sliders were the biggest changes for me.

[Earnie is God!]

On 14/10/2016 at 12:39, themadsheep2001 said:

Everton publicly claimed they wanted 50m for him in 2015, before their new owner and the mega TV deal. 31m wouldn't actually be a bad price relatively speaking. 

Maybe so but an up and coming player whose supposed value is £31m will rarely be available at that price, if at all. I think £31m is far too high for someone like him.
But hey, it's all relative and will only become clearer when we see what the values of others are in comparison.

[Tomekk73]

Have Yoy got Steam code?

[The Silence Of The Allams]

Thanks for all of the help with my question. I only run two or three countries but was hoping for a slight speed boost processing results.

[themadsheep2001]

5 hours ago, Earnie is God! said:

Maybe so but an up and coming player whose supposed value is £31m will rarely be available at that price, if at all. I think £31m is far too high for someone like him.
But hey, it's all relative and will only become clearer when we see what the values of others are in comparison.

Barkley's more than up and coming. He's at a club who are very rich and don't want to sell him. He's been quoted at £50m real life, and that was BEFORE the takeover and TV money increase. So £31m in game isn't really an issue. That was the specific example used, and it's actually lower than real life. 

[Fritz13]

Probably a VERY stupid question but how will the 32-bit and 64-bit options work?

will you get an option to download the game for either 32-bit or 64-bit?

or will you have one version and your system will then automatically offer improved performance if you have 64-bit already?

[Welshace]

If you have a 64bit OS.. Steam will automatically download the correct version.

[PhilT]

13 hours ago, HUNT3R said:

I hope it was some sort of joke question, but to answer, I'm very confident that it won't be in the game, ever.

:-) It certainly was a joke. Maybe Chelsea players retrieving balls from ball boys might be an idea though :-)

[fabioke]

I have pulled the trigger and bought the game through gamesplanet. There isn't any feature I particularly like, but I really dislike FM 2016 due to the crossing issue. It's my own fault, I should stay away from the forums (I won't).

64-bit sealed the deal for me. Really hope that it's going to be quicker.