fm2017 [WIP] E22 - England to Level 22

[YELLOW CIFC]

Impressed if you got to Leiston on public transport. Have always managed to get on the team/supporters' coach to that one.

[jam jameson]

9 hours ago, Dan BHTFC said:

Still working on new leagues however 3.0 now out with a few Gloucestershire Leagues, also have set contract type in the League section

Hi Dan, with the new settings of the contract type the previous issue is solved? When we get out of the amateur levels, do the contracts set correctly at semipro level?

[Dan BHTFC]

56 minutes ago, jam jameson said:

Hi Dan, with the new settings of the contract type the previous issue is solved? When we get out of the amateur levels, do the contracts set correctly at semipro level?

I haven't hadone a chance to test it yet

[phnompenhandy]

6 hours ago, JordanMillward_1 said:

Also, is there any chance you'd be able to make a copy of the database that has Brexit removed? I've been trying to edit your database with the advanced rules to remove Brexit, but that just results in only the standard leagues (up to National League North/South) being playable, and I can't figure out why.

I badly want this. I've been following the thread where people claim to have sussed it out. When I tried it I got the same problem, but in one post someone claimed that although the menu only goes down to National North/South, in fact all the levels are available if you just keep going.  I'd deleted my file before reading that, so maybe you could check it out.

[jam jameson]

10 hours ago, Dan BHTFC said:

I haven't hadone a chance to test it yet

I've compared the 3.0 release with the previous one. So, If I'm right, you've set a proper type of contract for each level, while in the 2.0 release they weren't set. Thus the League setting should override the club setting, and therefore when an amateur club turns semipro at level 10, the type of contract should fix by default, is it correct?

[Dan BHTFC]

Yes thats how I'm hoping it will work

[jam jameson]

3 minutes ago, Dan BHTFC said:

Yes thats how I'm hoping it will work

thanks, i'll give it a try and report back

[jam jameson]

5 hours ago, jam jameson said:

thanks, i'll give it a try and report back

in the meantime the Holiday Game reaches the right point to check the contract issue, I've wandered through the editor and spotted an odd thing: while up to League 2 the contract type is set at a division level, in League 1, Championship and Premier League it isn't. Why this different setting? It's a default one, since they're the default divisions of the database, so I wonder what does it actually mean when coming to our issue...

[phnompenhandy]

13 minutes ago, jam jameson said:

in the meantime the Holiday Game reaches the right point to check the contract issue, I've wandered through the editor and spotted an odd thing: while up to League 2 the contract type is set at a division level, in League 1, Championship and Premier League it isn't. Why this different setting? It's a default one, since they're the default divisions of the database, so I wonder what does it actually mean when coming to our issue...

Wouldn't all contract be automatically full-time at those levels?

[jam jameson]

4 minutes ago, phnompenhandy said:

Wouldn't all contract be automatically full-time at those levels?

I think so, but 'automatically' implies a rule set somewhere...should my level 12 team reach the heights of the Premiership, would it be still stuck in its 'amateur' contracts since they're set at a club level while nothing is provided for at League level???

[phnompenhandy]

Just now, jam jameson said:

I think so, but 'automatically' implies a rule set somewhere...should my level 12 team reach the heights of the Premiership, would it be still stuck in its 'amateur' contracts since they're set at a club level while nothing is provided for at League level???

My interpretation is that it would automatically be fully pro and all contracts would need to be pro contracts. Presumably there would be a process whereby you go semi-pro and give part-time contracts, but that's the mystery point.

[Dan BHTFC]

I think it's hardcoded in the game that when you reach League Two you automatically become Pro

[Tullem]

Minor thing - I just played what I thought was a Semi final of the Sussex Intermediate Cup and then was a bit bemused to see 4 matches.. Realised that the labels are the wrong way around. The draw for the ''quarter final'' completed fine so looks like its just a case of mixed up terminology.

[clarkehwbu]

12 hours ago, Tullem said:

Minor thing - I just played what I thought was a Semi final of the Sussex Intermediate Cup and then was a bit bemused to see 4 matches.. Realised that the labels are the wrong way around. The draw for the ''quarter final'' completed fine so looks like its just a case of mixed up terminology.

Congratulations on winning your Semi-Final, welcome to the Quarter Final!

[phnompenhandy]

Coming up to pre-season in my 3rd season, ie June 2018 and going through the new reps. 

Every relegated and promoted clubs gets the same rep - 750 (quite a boost from the 50-100 that a lot start with). Also most of them go semi-pro.

This from levels 22 to  about 11, which is when it starts to get sane. So, I have to do a lot of tweaking to restore reps in the lower levels.

[jwchriste]

2 hours ago, phnompenhandy said:

Coming up to pre-season in my 3rd season, ie June 2018 and going through the new reps. 

Every relegated and promoted clubs gets the same rep - 750 (quite a boost from the 50-100 that a lot start with). Also most of them go semi-pro.

This from levels 22 to  about 11, which is when it starts to get sane. So, I have to do a lot of tweaking to restore reps in the lower levels.

Interesting.  I'm not seeing reps jump that high.  I was promoted from L22 and only received 250.  I also ran a holiday test and checked teams promoted from L11 and they were also receiving only 250.  Still a lot when my starting rep was 2.  I didn't check relegated teams.  Have you changed something else in the database that might affect the magnitude of rep increases?

[JordanMilly]

Managed to update the database to force Brexit not to occur, seems to work for me when holidaying it.

Jordan 22 Level Brexit_9E8E6812-C65F-4A58-B25A-65E4BA7E8AE6.fmf

[jam jameson]

4 hours ago, phnompenhandy said:

Coming up to pre-season in my 3rd season, ie June 2018 and going through the new reps. 

Every relegated and promoted clubs gets the same rep - 750 (quite a boost from the 50-100 that a lot start with). Also most of them go semi-pro.

This from levels 22 to  about 11, which is when it starts to get sane. So, I have to do a lot of tweaking to restore reps in the lower levels.

at the end of the day it seems that the rep issue is not so influential as the last year, the worrying issue is when some clubs go semipro at the 'wrong' level...did you spot it even below level 10???

[TacticalGenius]

In my abandoned first career and both my tests the club turned semi pro when promoted to level 10, starting from level 12.

[phnompenhandy]

5 hours ago, JordanMillward_1 said:

Managed to update the database to force Brexit not to occur, seems to work for me when holidaying it.

Jordan 22 Level Brexit_9E8E6812-C65F-4A58-B25A-65E4BA7E8AE6.fmf

That's brilliant news. I haven't had any Brexit news yet (July 2018) but if for any reason i abandon my current save I'll start again incorporating your tweak.

[phnompenhandy]

7 hours ago, jwchriste said:

Interesting.  I'm not seeing reps jump that high.  I was promoted from L22 and only received 250.  I also ran a holiday test and checked teams promoted from L11 and they were also receiving only 250.  Still a lot when my starting rep was 2.  I didn't check relegated teams.  Have you changed something else in the database that might affect the magnitude of rep increases?

After the first season, increases were generally 250 for promoted and relegated teams. After the second season I see this 750 global figure for promoted and relegated teams in the lower levels.

Jam - oh yes, many teams that started amateur turn semi-pro even at the lowest levels - I think there are more semi-pro than amateur teams even at the lowest levels. I switched some back to amateur but there are too many to do it comprehensively. There are a few that go fully pro - I have tweaked those back to semi-pro or amateur.

jw - yes. I have made extensive changes that might be the cause; however, other who haven't are reporting similar phenomena. One odd thing is that the Scottish, Irish, Welsh and other foreign teams I've incorporated aren't affected; it's all English clubs, be they original, added by Dan or by me.

[jwchriste]

Just now, phnompenhandy said:

After the first season, increases were generally 250 for promoted and relegated teams. After the second season I see this 750 global figure for promoted and relegated teams in the lower levels.

That's probably the difference.  I only checked after the first season.

[JordanMilly]

7 minutes ago, phnompenhandy said:

That's brilliant news. I haven't had any Brexit news yet (July 2018) but if for any reason i abandon my current save I'll start again incorporating your tweak.

Glad to help!

[phnompenhandy]

3 minutes ago, JordanMillward_1 said:

Glad to help!

I'm looking at it in the editor, but what did you do? I need to copy your procedure into my version. It's in the advanced editor, 'agreement change', right?

[jwchriste]

I started a new save with the 3.0 database.  Got my season expectations:  "The minimum expectation is that the team finish bottom of the league this season."

Oh, ye of little faith!

[JordanMilly]

37 minutes ago, phnompenhandy said:

I'm looking at it in the editor, but what did you do? I need to copy your procedure into my version. It's in the advanced editor, 'agreement change', right?

Yep, it's the Advanced Rules agreement change. I set Brexit to 100% happen in 2100, which for some reason, causes the game to say that the UK has decided to stay in the EU during 2017/18 in all my tests.

[phnompenhandy]

Just now, JordanMillward_1 said:

Yep, it's the Advanced Rules agreement change. I set Brexit to 100% happen in 2100, which for some reason, causes the game to say that the UK has decided to stay in the EU during 2017/18 in all my tests.

Is that all? 

When you load up the file to start a new save, do you get the option to go down to L22 in the drop-down menu?

[JordanMilly]

1 minute ago, phnompenhandy said:

Is that all? 

When you load up the file to start a new save, do you get the option to go down to L22 in the drop-down menu?

Yep, I'm currently playing in Level 11, but all the way down to level 22 was available, because @Dan BHTFC had already updated England to have all of the different levels included as standard. It was merging the Brexit database and the L22 database that broke things and stopped allowing access to play below National North/South, just directly editing Dan's database, and then clicking on the Rules drop down on the top, then Test Rules, then all leagues, verifies everything and lets it all work as normal. It's the lack of testing the competitions that restricts access.

 

Above: The changes to stop Brexit.

Above: How to test the rules to verify all the leagues, which allows you to access them in-game again.

Note that if you verify the leagues, and then change any rules again, even ones not for Brexit, you need to test them all all over again.

[phnompenhandy]

Cheers. I've spent days customising Dan's file, so I'm sticking with v1. I need to add these changes to that one. So do your pictures apply to the earlier file?

[jam jameson]

As the last year, I've given up on playing at lower levels, too unpredictable to kick off a long term save; I'll stick to level 10, I think it's much more stable and reliable both in the rep issue and in clubs insanely turning semipro or pro. Moreover, playing at level 10 is much harder than at amateur level, where you can hire fantastic players far too easily.

[phnompenhandy]

23 minutes ago, jam jameson said:

As the last year, I've given up on playing at lower levels, too unpredictable to kick off a long term save; I'll stick to level 10, I think it's much more stable and reliable both in the rep issue and in clubs insanely turning semipro or pro. Moreover, playing at level 10 is much harder than at amateur level, where you can hire fantastic players far too easily.

Doesn't bother me so much. Actually I started in level 12 and am now about to start pre-season in level 10; the first two seasons for me are about tweaking tactics, bedding in players and determining your best line-up. I enjoy keeping an eye on what's going on in the leagues below me, so on that basis the reputation issue doesn't adversely affect me.

[jam jameson]

3 hours ago, phnompenhandy said:

Doesn't bother me so much. Actually I started in level 12 and am now about to start pre-season in level 10; the first two seasons for me are about tweaking tactics, bedding in players and determining your best line-up. I enjoy keeping an eye on what's going on in the leagues below me, so on that basis the reputation issue doesn't adversely affect me.

Therefore you're experiencing your club going semipro at level 10, so you might help us to understand this step...how does it fare? is it all ok? are you offering part-time contracts to your personnel? how do they react? which is your wage budget? thanks in advance, it would be helpful to share the experience of other users of this great file

[phnompenhandy]

I'm afraid my experience wouldn't be of any use since I use an in-game editor for such matters 

[jam jameson]

7 minutes ago, phnompenhandy said:

I'm afraid my experience wouldn't be of any use since I use an in-game editor for such matters 

So you're turning the contracts to partime using the in game editor, arent'you? But has the club itself turned to semipro when promoted to level 10?

[phnompenhandy]

Just now, jam jameson said:

So you're turning the contracts to partime using the in game editor, arent'you? But has the club itself turned to semipro when promoted to level 10?

I made the team part-time from the outset so that I could tie the young players to contracts. My focus is on developing the academy kids, which I can't do if the best get cherry-picked every year!

[jam jameson]

11 minutes ago, phnompenhandy said:

I made the team part-time from the outset so that I could tie the young players to contracts. My focus is on developing the academy kids, which I can't do if the best get cherry-picked every year!

You fox...good idea, did it cause any problem over the season and with the different League settings???

[phnompenhandy]

2 minutes ago, jam jameson said:

You fox...good idea, did it cause any problem over the season and with the different League settings???

What do you mean by 'different league settings'?

For the second season I found myself in a division with about half the clubs semi-pro, and I think this season in L10 all of them will be. I gave myself a starting club rep of 2, which jumped to 263 the day I secured 2nd place and promotion. I recalibrated it to 50 to put myself in the lower reaches of the L11 division. Now, as I gain promotion to L10 the rep has leapt to 362, but this time I'm leaving it as it is since it's still one of the lowest in that division.

By giving my initially CA1 kids constant first team playing time, their CAs are now too high for this level (the best are up to 40). Their increases will slow down in the next couple of years, and I'm waiting to see at what level they begin to struggle. So I can say that for my club and my management there are no problems - just constant refusal to spend money we don't have improving training facilities, which is part of the reason I think the players will plateau soon.

The problem is in divisions that I'm not involved in where there are clubs with rep 1 competing with clubs with rep 750 - if I don't change them the competition gets rather silly.

[jam jameson]

19 minutes ago, phnompenhandy said:

What do you mean by 'different league settings'?

For the second season I found myself in a division with about half the clubs semi-pro, and I think this season in L10 all of them will be. I gave myself a starting club rep of 2, which jumped to 263 the day I secured 2nd place and promotion. I recalibrated it to 50 to put myself in the lower reaches of the L11 division. Now, as I gain promotion to L10 the rep has leapt to 362, but this time I'm leaving it as it is since it's still one of the lowest in that division.

By giving my initially CA1 kids constant first team playing time, their CAs are now too high for this level (the best are up to 40). Their increases will slow down in the next couple of years, and I'm waiting to see at what level they begin to struggle. So I can say that for my club and my management there are no problems - just constant refusal to spend money we don't have improving training facilities, which is part of the reason I think the players will plateau soon.

The problem is in divisions that I'm not involved in where there are clubs with rep 1 competing with clubs with rep 750 - if I don't change them the competition gets rather silly.

I was thinking to the clash between the League settings (contract type: amateur) and your own club setting (contract type: part-time). If you haven't had any problem in maintaining your part-time setting, it means it overrides the League one, so we're back at square one for those amateur clubs that stay amateur till level 10, turn semi pro and...what kind of contract will they be allowed to offer???

[phnompenhandy]

I set the club to part-time and contracts fo rplayers to full-time in the pre-game editor. Nothing's been interfered with in the save.

[MrDarrenPerry1]

Evening Dan, we spoke a few weeks back....did you manage to add the Essex & Suffolk Border league? If so, is there a newer version download available somewhere?

[Lazylen]

Hi Dan. I keep getting errors when starting a new game. It keeps stating that numerous cups require teams that aren't there. Any solution for this?

[KUBI]

5 minutes ago, Lazylen said:

Hi Dan. I keep getting errors when starting a new game. It keeps stating that numerous cups require teams that aren't there. Any solution for this?

That's probably because you are loading other custom league files as well.

[Lazylen]

Yeah i Did.

Did not used to be a problem on FM16 with this file?

[Coxbox]

Thanks for the update @Dan BHTFC I am now working on the Stroud and district leagues adding my local team and their staff and players, I can share the work when I am done    

[jam jameson]

17 hours ago, phnompenhandy said:

I set the club to part-time and contracts fo rplayers to full-time in the pre-game editor. Nothing's been interfered with in the save.

I've done the following experiment: picked a club at level 11 and removed the 'type of contract' setting in the pre-game editor. The idea is to leave the matter to the League setting. In the first season as an amateur club I could only offer amateur contracts; then I won the League and was promoted, the club turned semipro in May but till the first season didn't end I could only offer part-time non-contract deals to the players. Than at the end of June, as the season changed and I was actually included in my new level 10 League, I could finally offer proper part-time contracts. Two only minor issues of this pattern: the first wage budget as semipro in quite high (around 67k euro per years, vs the usually 27k at this level), my rep get a superboost...but with regard to the second, I've checked my fellow level 10 clubs and mine isn't so weird, quite all of them are around 300, so the competition should be fair...

[phnompenhandy]

Jam, I suspect you'd have turned semi-pro even if you'd been in a level 15 or 16 league.

About the wage budget - another thing I use the in-game editor for is to substantially reduce the wage budget, and to scratch the transfer budget - whatever the chairman gives me, I reset it to zero. If you don't use an editor you just have to discipline yourself to not spending anything on transfers and keeping to whatever wage budget you think is fair.

[Dan BHTFC]

4.0 just released

[jwchriste]

3 minutes ago, Dan BHTFC said:

4.0 just released

Was anything changed other than the additional leagues?

[Dan BHTFC]

Just the additional leagues, I'm working on the Essex & Suffolk Border Leagues and the Dorset Leagues next

[phnompenhandy]

Mid-way through my 3rd season and have stumbled across a very odd observation, which I can't tell is a consequence of Dan's file or built-in SI coding affecting leagues this low.

I've previously admitted that I use a utility to monitor CA. What's happened is that a glass ceiling has been reached. By the end of season 2, two players had the joint-highest CA, which I will call ZX. This season neither have increased at all, but the players behind them have all caught up and are on ZX. I'm giving the lagging fringe players first team action now and I expect that by the end of the season every single member of my squad (30 players) will be on the same CA of ZX.

The said CA is too good for this level (10) and probably for a couple of seasons yet, but I'll get unstuck around level 8 if they don't rise. The glass ceiling could be a result of the level they are playing at, in which case it should rise next season, or it could quite reasonably be due to my terrible training facilities. After being refused two years running, my chairman has finally agreed to an upgrade after this season finishes. I'll continue to monitor this closely.