TM and Poacher combo - Do they still work?

[permanentquandary]

The classic big man little man partnership, typically in a 4-4-2 system, is something I have struggled to get to work. Do they still work, and how do you get them to work?

I personally think that TM's are bugged right now because of how many CCC's they miss with their head (ball usually goes right over the bar) but I am willing to be proven wrong.

Here is a setup I am contemplating for the new season.

This tactic is being designed to be used situationally when I need to grab a goal, usually against a weaker team that is parking the bus when my other two approaches have failed to get anything from the game. The basic idea is to play long balls to the target man and hopefully break down a stubborn defence using his aerial and physical presence. He will play with back to goal and hopefully create some chances with the ball on the deck as well. I decided to go with a wide diamond so that he has extra close-by support from an AMC. I also expect the Poacher will play off the TM and grab goals. The ball carriers will be the wide wingers on support. The DMC will keep it simple and mop up and help defend. The FB's will give simple deep support to the wingers and not overlap to keep some defensive balance.

But this thread is not so much about my own tactic but also about yours. Share any success stories you have had and give your own suggestions on how you can get the TM to score/assist a lot of goals in a long ball system
 

[jeid2000]

TM's are not bugged. I had great success using a TM and he did everything I thought he would do based on the role description.

I know you've got the AM/S there, but if the defence are hoofing a ball forward to a Target Man, there's a good chance that as the AM is on a support duty, he'll be too deep to latch on to any knock downs.

I used a 442, TM/S with P/A and had both my wide men going forward with attack duties. Worked very well and it was super exciting to watch. I wrote an article on it but I don't think I'm allowed to link off to posts about tactical stuff without posting the full thing here.

 

 

[Guest]

31 minutes ago, jeid2000 said:

TM's are not bugged. I had great success using a TM and he did everything I thought he would do based on the role description.

I know you've got the AM/S there, but if the defence are hoofing a ball forward to a Target Man, there's a good chance that as the AM is on a support duty, he'll be too deep to latch on to any knock downs.

I used a 442, TM/S with P/A and had both my wide men going forward with attack duties. Worked very well and it was super exciting to watch. I wrote an article on it but I don't think I'm allowed to link off to posts about tactical stuff without posting the full thing here.

 

 

give us links, I'm very interested in this

[herne79]

1 hour ago, jeid2000 said:

I wrote an article on it but I don't think I'm allowed to link off to posts about tactical stuff without posting the full thing here.

Correct.  I'm afraid we're obliged to ask for the article to be posted, along with a link to the original.

[permanentquandary]

3 hours ago, jeid2000 said:

TM's are not bugged. I had great success using a TM and he did everything I thought he would do based on the role description.

I know you've got the AM/S there, but if the defence are hoofing a ball forward to a Target Man, there's a good chance that as the AM is on a support duty, he'll be too deep to latch on to any knock downs.

I used a 442, TM/S with P/A and had both my wide men going forward with attack duties. Worked very well and it was super exciting to watch. I wrote an article on it but I don't think I'm allowed to link off to posts about tactical stuff without posting the full thing here.

 

 

My concern with the AM being on the attack duty is that he won't sufficiently track back to help cover the acres of space in central midfield. I will have to see how he links with the TM. I am hoping it will be a case of TM gets ball with back to goal, opponent defender closes down, TM lays off to AM/S who plays it to poacher behind defender, which I am quite sure is a combination of play that teams train for IRL.

As for attack duty wingers, my experience with them is they get into the box and I'm not sure I want that because it's already crowded by my two strikers. Also they cross from the byline, which means they cross once the opposition defence is best in a position to defend against the cross. On a support duty, the winger will cross in from a deeper position, giving a chance that the ball will be played behind the opposition defensive line.

I would like to know what the tactical advantage is of playing a ball in from the byline though.

As for the not bugged thing, there is actually a thread I will grab where others have the same experience as me, even when they are sure they TM is getting all the supply and support he needs.

[permanentquandary]

 

[jeid2000]

A bit late back to the party, but I finally got round to posting about the TM here 

 

[mrlimbo]

To me , its Not just the TM's that are bugged , but all forwards !

The better the team gets , the better forwards you have , the more chances you make , the forwards just start missing absolutely tons of chances , I dont know if this is down to the match engine coming into play , to keep the scores more realistic or what ?

But its got to the point of being ridiculous , where you have won the league & European cup etc multiple times in a row and your100 mIllion forward cant hit a barn door more often than not !

[HUNT3R]

Just now, mrlimbo said:

To me , its Not just the TM's that are bugged , but all forwards !

The better the team gets , the better forwards you have , the more chances you make , the forwards just start missing absolutely tons of chances , I dont know if this is down to the match engine coming into play , to keep the scores more realistic or what ?

But its got to the point of being ridiculous , where you have won the league & European cup etc multiple times in a row and your100 mIllion forward cant hit a barn door more often than not !

Don't make up things. At some point you need to get to the stage where you realise all forwards aren't bugged, but rather their manager blaming everything but himself. The AI forwards are fine. I know my own definitely are. Why aren't yours?

 

To answer the OP... of course it can work. It's just as much about the rest of the setup and the tactic as a whole though.

[mrlimbo]

Not making anything up , just my observation of the game , once a team reaches a certain level , it has only happened to the forwards , every other position performs to the expected level , I've now gone through all the known "Great" strikers and its the same with all of them , yes they score , but the chances to goal ratio is now massively on the miss side of the ratio ? This was not the case the whole way through my career from non league onwards , until now ? Yes I expect the opposition to be harder , park the bus etc and that has happened , but I didn't expect the forwards to get worse at scoring clear cut chances for no apparent reason , it is Very noticeable !

[HUNT3R]

5 minutes ago, mrlimbo said:

Not making anything up , just my observation of the game , once a team reaches a certain level , it has only happened to the forwards , every other position performs to the expected level , I've now gone through all the known "Great" strikers and its the same with all of them , yes they score , but the chances to goal ratio is now massively on the miss side of the ratio ? This was not the case the whole way through my career from non league onwards , until now ? Yes I expect the opposition to be harder , park the bus etc and that has happened , but I didn't expect the forwards to get worse at scoring clear cut chances for no apparent reason , it is Very noticeable !

Saying all forwards are bugged is just straight up wrong. If you need help, start a thread with the info required.

[mrlimbo]

2 hours ago, HUNT3R said:

Saying all forwards are bugged is just straight up wrong. If you need help, start a thread with the info required.

Thanks , but no i don't need help , as there is none to be had , i only mentioned it because its been bugging me the last few weeks and its something that is just not natural or right within the game , yes maybe saying all forwards are bugged was slightly tongue in cheek ... but is it the game engine kicking in to keep results realistic ? its the only thing i can think of , as there is no other reason !

[HUNT3R]

4 hours ago, mrlimbo said:

but is it the game engine kicking in to keep results realistic ?

It doesn't do that either.

[herne79]

9 hours ago, mrlimbo said:

Thanks , but no i don't need help , as there is none to be had , i only mentioned it because its been bugging me the last few weeks and its something that is just not natural or right within the game , yes maybe saying all forwards are bugged was slightly tongue in cheek ... but is it the game engine kicking in to keep results realistic ? its the only thing i can think of , as there is no other reason !

There is another reason.

If forwards aren't bugged, or the ME doesn't kick in to artificially alter results, that pretty much leaves only one thing.

If you want to start a new thread and post your detailed tactical set up I'm sure someone will be able to help.  Although if you are being so successful, do your forwards missing chances actually matter?

[HUNT3R]

On 10/15/2016 at 22:31, mrlimbo said:

yes they score , but the chances to goal ratio is now massively on the miss side of the ratio ?

Was thinking more about this. What are their shots to goals ratio? Maybe it's a matter of perspective. The best strikers in the Premier League (and I'm sure it's the same in the other leagues) average a goal for every 4th or 5th shot. So if you look at it, conversion rate of 20-25% is also on the miss side of the ratio.