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The Dude

"Play your natural game"

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I'd like to see a feature in tactics where you can set player tactical roles and duties to "play your natural game, son."  The current instructions can be really restrictive. 

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6 minutes ago, The Dude said:

I'd like to see a feature in tactics where you can set player tactical roles and duties to "play your natural game, son."  The current instructions can be really restrictive. 

Can you at least expand on this? You want to send a player to just "go run about for a bit", without any instructions at all?

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All players have one or more preferred positions within a formation.  Some also have a number of preferred moves.  Occasionally, I might want a player to do just what it says on his own tin, regardless of any other instructions within my overall tactical plan.  For example an inside forward, who naturally has preferred moves like 'cuts inside from both wings', and 'shoots with power'.  Say he's got huge flair, teamwork and workrate.  That's all I want from him, thank you.  Play your natural game, son.  I don't feel the need to give him any instructions about tackling, where to cross from, etc.  Also, from a point of view of being 'immersed' in the game, this is occasionally an instruction managers will give to players in real life.  I seem to remember either Terry Venables or Bobby Robson (not sure which) discussing his approach to Paul Gascoigne being like that.  Basically, it's a really simple idea that would add a nice little tweak to the game.  

Edited by The Dude

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So in essence, for any given match (or series of matches) be able to tell any player(s) to ignore their PPMs and give them a completely neutral role that has no Player Instructions (for example the Wide Midfielder role)?

In other words, "I don't have any specific tactical instructions for you, just go out there and do your thing".

I would mention though that in FM terms, Gazza (to carry on the example given) would have had some PPMs and being told to go out and play his natural game would include using those PPMs.  So perhaps rather than ignoring PPMs, just using neutral roles without any PIs would be closer to your suggestion?

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I think I've come to the wrong forum. Bye. 

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Well this is a discussion forum where we can discuss ideas.  The aim of this being to either help flesh out ideas which SI can then look at to code into the game; discuss alternatives and other options which may or may not be better; or, in the case of your other topic, let you know the feature being requested is already part of the game - unless it's been misunderstood in which case lets discuss some more.

Nobody is dismissing your idea, we're asking questions.  This shows we're trying to understand more, not challenge you.

If you want to discuss more, you know where we are.

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I think I know where The Dude's coming from.

I often play the Fifa football video game wii console version All Play mode with the nintendo wand... because I'm clumsy with the joystick control and feel the joystick control don't allow players to play their natural game.

You can place players in any position and they retain their character.

If there were a few simple instructions available the wii console version would have been more immersive... unfortunately there were none.

I've often played with ten wide backs in a 442 because their stats were well rounded and performed good in all positions.

I even managed to beat the Classic and World teams on the highest difficulty.

Edited by theopert

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On 29 August 2016 at 15:59, herne79 said:

"Nobody is dismissing your idea, we're asking questions.  This shows we're trying to understand more, not challenge you."  

Well, I'm new to these forums, having only made two posts, and I have to say I'm disappointed with the tone and quality of responses.  I accept that on this occasion the responses may have been simply to understand me, but it's difficult to take the questions seriously when they are written in that tone, and the suggestion itself was so blindingly simple.  However, I also accept that not everyone can accurately represent the tone they wanted to with the typed word, and misunderstandings are common on forums.  Anyway.  The whole point is that for an immersive experience in a game, you want the array of decisions you can make on the interface to resemble as closely as possible the way you would behave in 'real life'.  And in real life, there are of course many players who need lots of direct instruction.  And there are others that football managers frequently tell (if you believe the many autobiographies etc) to just go and play their natural game.  Often (but not always), these are talented players who are given a free role.  And of course, these players might not get that instruction in every match.  I don't want to sound sarcastic, but I really am struggling to understand why anyone would find this a difficult concept to grasp, and also how in any way the addition of such an element would be detrimental, or even superfluous to the game.  Clearly, as a reflection of real life football, it could only add something positive to the playing experience.       

 

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I apologise if you have taken my tone to be anything other than the neutral way in which it was intended.

I'd also like to see some additional neutral roles, especially around the AML/R and ST positions.  Roles with no PIs attached that allows players to just focus on their "attributes" (in FM terms) without other tactical instructions.

PPMs on the other hand is something I'd like to discuss.  PPMs are intended to reflect natural traits and tendencies of how players actually play in real life.  Therefore meaning the intention is for them to be part of their natural game.  So, wouldn't having the ability to turn off (or ignore) PPMs actually be the opposite of what you are suggesting?  "Go out and play your natural game son" to me at least means use your natural abilities and traits, which would therefore include their PPMs as PPMs are meant to reflect their natural game?

Of course if that's not how you see things and just want the ability to turn off PPMs and give a player a neutral role, fair enough and I'll stop trying to discuss, no problem.

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On 30/08/2016 at 00:28, theopert said:

I think I know where The Dude's coming from.

I often play the Fifa football video game wii console version All Play mode with the nintendo wand... because I'm clumsy with the joystick control and feel the joystick control don't allow players to play their natural game.

You can place players in any position and they retain their character.

How is that different to FM?

Can you play players in any position in FM? - Yes

Do they retain their character? - Yes

Character in FM is defined by their attributes, both visible & hidden + PPMs.

What The Dude is essentially wanting is a neutral role for each position and these are mostly covered already.  As herne has pointed out above a neutral role for AML, AMR & ST would be a welcome addition otherwise I think we are mostly covered.

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7 hours ago, herne79 said:

I apologise if you have taken my tone to be anything other than the neutral way in which it was intended.

I'd also like to see some additional neutral roles, especially around the AML/R and ST positions.  Roles with no PIs attached that allows players to just focus on their "attributes" (in FM terms) without other tactical instructions.

PPMs on the other hand is something I'd like to discuss.  PPMs are intended to reflect natural traits and tendencies of how players actually play in real life.  Therefore meaning the intention is for them to be part of their natural game.  So, wouldn't having the ability to turn off (or ignore) PPMs actually be the opposite of what you are suggesting?  "Go out and play your natural game son" to me at least means use your natural abilities and traits, which would therefore include their PPMs as PPMs are meant to reflect their natural game?

Of course if that's not how you see things and just want the ability to turn off PPMs and give a player a neutral role, fair enough and I'll stop trying to discuss, no problem.

I didn't read The Dude's proposal as ignoring PPM's at all - not sure where you're getting that from.

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26 minutes ago, alinp said:

I didn't read The Dude's proposal as ignoring PPM's at all - not sure where you're getting that from.

His second post.

Even if I've misread it and The Dude's suggestion means keeping PPMs in place, then we're talking about the same thing aren't we.  Unfortunately he hasn't provided an answer, so we don't know.

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18 minutes ago, herne79 said:

His second post.

Even if I've misread it and The Dude's suggestion means keeping PPMs in place, then we're talking about the same thing aren't we.  Unfortunately he hasn't provided an answer, so we don't know.

I think he means allowing the player to use his PPM's but basically ignoring any other team or role instructions, but hopefully he'll confirm this.

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11 hours ago, Cougar2010 said:

How is that different to FM?

Can you play players in any position in FM? - Yes

Do they retain their character? - Yes

Character in FM is defined by their attributes, both visible & hidden + PPMs.

What The Dude is essentially wanting is a neutral role for each position and these are mostly covered already.  As herne has pointed out above a neutral role for AML, AMR & ST would be a welcome addition otherwise I think we are mostly covered.

I'm not debating the strengths and weaknesses of the games, all I'm saying is if I place, example, a Centre Midfielder at Wide Back the CM is sill a CM because his colour button don't change, and his in game performance don't change and there are no PPMs. In FM if you put a player in different positions they perform different because each position has different expectations and predefined instructions.

I understand what your saying though and unless you've played or seen Fifa wii console version in action the meaning of my post may be lost in the translation, the description, etc.

There are better writers.

I along with others have previously posted wishes to have all positions neutral and have a player instruction board that states how well the player can play the instruction on the player instruction button.

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12 hours ago, theopert said:

I'm not debating the strengths and weaknesses of the games, all I'm saying is if I place, example, a Centre Midfielder at Wide Back the CM is sill a CM because his colour button don't change, and his in game performance don't change and there are no PPMs. In FM if you put a player in different positions they perform different because each position has different expectations and predefined instructions.

I understand what your saying though and unless you've played or seen Fifa wii console version in action the meaning of my post may be lost in the translation, the description, etc.

There are better writers.

I along with others have previously posted wishes to have all positions neutral and have a player instruction board that states how well the player can play the instruction on the player instruction button.

Maybe I'm missing something but if you stick a MC at full back he will still play to his attributes and if his attributes suit that position he will do fairly well even if he doesn't have familiarity with the position.

I just don't understand your point tbh, each player has individual characteristics in FM which are the result of his attributes & PPMs.  These aren't overridden by the instructions you give him they just define how he follows those instructions.

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12 hours ago, Cougar2010 said:

Maybe I'm missing something but if you stick a MC at full back he will still play to his attributes and if his attributes suit that position he will do fairly well even if he doesn't have familiarity with the position.

I just don't understand your point tbh, each player has individual characteristics in FM which are the result of his attributes & PPMs.  These aren't overridden by the instructions you give him they just define how he follows those instructions.

Maybe I see FM as an entertainment video game that can be educational as well but somehow someway there's a lot of people like myself who get blinded by glitz and unnecessary depth for our own good.

That's why there's a feature request section to include features that are presented in a way that helps those that feel their experience can be improved.

 

 

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