Chesters86 Posted August 24, 2016 Share Posted August 24, 2016 It would've been nice if they offered a few screenshots along with the announcement of the release date. I've not pre-ordered it myself yet, but it has nothing to with not announcing any features because I know I will get FM 17 anyway! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BoxToBox Posted August 24, 2016 Share Posted August 24, 2016 1 hour ago, dREIS said: I honestly can't believe people are so naive it's Football Manager... What are you expecting? It will be the same as the last few years with a few changes nothing sweeping. Maybe an updated match engine perhaps some increased AI as is natural with progressive iterations of games. Given most games cost around £40-60 on any given console. I think FM is a safe £30 of any ones money for the 000's of hours you will get out of it. Imagine if we all held off buying seasons tickets until they told us where they might finish and who they are signing. More guns and explosions, distinct lack of guns and explosions in FM16. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
2calvin Posted August 24, 2016 Share Posted August 24, 2016 1 hour ago, Cougar2010 said: The offer is there for nearly two months and during that time they'll release details about the game. ????? Miles: as per the initial announcement of the game, features will be revealed a few days before the public beta is released Beta is 2 weeks before release so 21st October. I'll give you a couple of days, earliest when features are released will be 18-19th October Pre discount offer is valid until 14th October So no I can't wait until features are revealed and still take up this offer Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
GriffiN94 Posted August 24, 2016 Share Posted August 24, 2016 Football Manager is the only game I pre-order every year , regardless of any changes to the game. I'll still pre-order like I do every year and even if they change nothing I don't care because I just like playing it with the latest transfer updates. I know you can download updates but it never seems right. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cougar2010 Posted August 24, 2016 Share Posted August 24, 2016 11 minutes ago, 2calvin said: ????? Miles: as per the initial announcement of the game, features will be revealed a few days before the public beta is released Beta is 2 weeks before release so 21st October. I'll give you a couple of days, earliest when features are released will be 18-19th October Pre discount offer is valid until 14th October So no I can't wait until features are revealed and still take up this offer I haven't seen that, is it from twitter? Anyway I would be surprised if we hear nothing between now & the 14th Oct. I suspect features will be drip fed into the community via various methods between now & then. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
forameuss Posted August 24, 2016 Share Posted August 24, 2016 13 minutes ago, 2calvin said: ????? Miles: as per the initial announcement of the game, features will be revealed a few days before the public beta is released Beta is 2 weeks before release so 21st October. I'll give you a couple of days, earliest when features are released will be 18-19th October Pre discount offer is valid until 14th October So no I can't wait until features are revealed and still take up this offer That wasn't exactly what was said though, was it? The wording was that features would be released "in the days leading up to". We're currently leading up to release, so could get features any time between now and then. No way they'll be releasing features two days before the beta arrives. What would be the point in that? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Rowell Posted August 24, 2016 Share Posted August 24, 2016 6 hours ago, Wakers said: Just a question. No new features will be announced until a few days before the pre-order promotion ends. I can imagine what people would be saying about this if EA were doing it. Is this an SI idea, or is it a SEGA one? Is it OK? It's a bit on the side of unethical to me. Personally I think people should have some information about features before a pre-order promotion is launched. I agree with you. I'm re-quoting your post because I think the point you're making is being missed here. Whether people trust SI to produce a product they like, whether they've done it before, whether other studios do it, whether people can make their own minds up, all are moot to the specific point you raise. Is it ethical business to promote & ask people to buy a product that you've not told them fully about? I don't think it is. It is asymmetric information i.e. the seller has more information at the point of purchase than the buyer - that is unethical. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Neil Brock Posted August 24, 2016 Administrators Share Posted August 24, 2016 The most obvious argument against most of the points made above is that even if someone does pre-order there's absolutely nothing to stop someone cancelling the order or getting a refund if they so later choose. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
podunkboy Posted August 24, 2016 Share Posted August 24, 2016 That's why I'll probably pre-order October 13th, take my 20% discount, check out the beta, and if it's an abhorrent mess (unlikely), get a refund. All the people who were disappointed in No Man's Sky had that option, too (at least the PC players.) It's not like I have a choice - either buy FM every year or interact with my wife and family. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Just-Wool Posted August 24, 2016 Share Posted August 24, 2016 Didn't realise Steam does refunds now. Pretty neat. Can even play the game for up to two hours and be eligible for a refund. When did this come in? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevin3 Posted August 24, 2016 Share Posted August 24, 2016 32 minutes ago, forameuss said: That wasn't exactly what was said though, was it? The wording was that features would be released "in the days leading up to". We're currently leading up to release, so could get features any time between now and then. No way they'll be releasing features two days before the beta arrives. What would be the point in that? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
forameuss Posted August 24, 2016 Share Posted August 24, 2016 Twitter comments in a quote appear to be screwing up replying, so leaving out the quote. Fair enough, take back what I said. I was sure I'd seen a tweet where the wording was different, maybe I made it up. A few days is still suitably vague though, particularly coming from Miles. If they release them after the preorder offer is over, then that's a shame, but as others have said you can still get it for cheaper on other sites even without the loyalty bonus. No-one's going to be forced into preordering without hearing about any features. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
imabearlol Posted August 24, 2016 Share Posted August 24, 2016 I usually preoder the FM series every year, but without knowing what possible new features there would be for 2017 I won't be doing it this time around. I just don't like buying things without knowing what they are first. If the new features aren't worthwhile then I will save my money and play 2016 with an updated database, particularly as finances have become tighter over the last few years. Once I know what new features will be in I will be able to make an informed decision on whether to purchase or not. Until then, it would just be guesswork. As far as I remember they have announced the new features at the same time as the preorder, so I don't understand why they needed to change this approach? It turned a perfectly good process into an unknown. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
2calvin Posted August 24, 2016 Share Posted August 24, 2016 2 hours ago, monkeywool said: What would you do that's better? This is important because its easy to criticize, how about 30% discount? So it *isn't* cheaper elsewhere? Wasnt it possible to add FM11 and FM12 to the mix for an extra 5% each off? Extend the discount to a month after release? Until christmas? all year round? So the customers I value so much are truly in control Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
themadsheep2001 Posted August 24, 2016 Share Posted August 24, 2016 2 hours ago, Welshace said: Who's said ' we're not telling you, shut up and give us your money?' ... no-ones asking you for your money, and no-ones saying 'we're not telling you' .. This time last year there wasn't any details released either.... it's just this yearm if you prefer to pre order, theres a lovely bonus for you. If not, feel free to wait.. you have two months of this promotion. People can and will complain about anything. Releasing features is something that should gradually happening leading up to release, and that's something should happen with or without the pre-order. Unless they don't do their one feature a day Twitter feed reveal (or ideally something more meaty), there shouldn't be much issue here. The window closes October 14th, we should be hearing key features before then, irrespective of the game preorder really *looks at marketing* Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
themadsheep2001 Posted August 24, 2016 Share Posted August 24, 2016 9 minutes ago, 2calvin said: This is important because its easy to criticize, how about 30% discount? So it *isn't* cheaper elsewhere? Wasnt it possible to add FM11 and FM12 to the mix for an extra 5% each off? Extend the discount to a month after release? Until christmas? all year round? So the customers I value so much are truly in control You have the option to shop around anyway, so you are in control. Every year there is a thread that has prices from various areas to get the cheapest deals. That was an idea started by a mod. Throughout the year there are deals and price cuts at different points. If the deal isn't enough for you, shop around. What you're asking for already happens. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
themadsheep2001 Posted August 24, 2016 Share Posted August 24, 2016 1 hour ago, monkeywool said: Didn't realise Steam does refunds now. Pretty neat. Can even play the game for up to two hours and be eligible for a refund. When did this come in? A few months ago I believe Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
QWERTYOP Posted August 24, 2016 Share Posted August 24, 2016 3 hours ago, dREIS said: Sigh can't argue with someone that thinks they are the victim. We get folks like you instore can spot em a mile off. People who are loathe to blindly part with cash? Good. You don't sound especially well cut-out for customer service though. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pingdinho Posted August 24, 2016 Share Posted August 24, 2016 20 minutes ago, 2calvin said: 30% discount? So it *isn't* cheaper elsewhere? Wasnt it possible to add FM11 and FM12 to the mix for an extra 5% each off? Extend the discount to a month after release? Until christmas? all year round? So the customers I value so much are truly in control I can do even better – a 40% discount! If you find the game cheaper somewhere else and want to buy from there go ahead. Seriously; some people's diamond shoes are too tight around here. It's a discount offer. A gesture from SI. Yes, meant to generate cash for them, but its hardly a slap in the face. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hilly27 Posted August 24, 2016 Share Posted August 24, 2016 I really don't understand all this fuss. Pre-order or not, personal choice. No-one's arm is up their back. Personally, I pre-ordered once, found that the copyright issues hadn't been resolved, (don't mention the Germans, I did once but I think I got away with it!! ), so waited until the appropriate utilities were available on line, then played the game. I shall do the same this time, meanwhile lurk on the forums to see if the ME is any better. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Rowell Posted August 24, 2016 Share Posted August 24, 2016 52 minutes ago, Hilly27 said: I really don't understand all this fuss. Pre-order or not, personal choice. No-one's arm is up their back. Personally, I pre-ordered once, found that the copyright issues hadn't been resolved, (don't mention the Germans, I did once but I think I got away with it!! ), so waited until the appropriate utilities were available on line, then played the game. I shall do the same this time, meanwhile lurk on the forums to see if the ME is any better. I don't think its a fuss at all and tbh the way you phrase that is quite dismissive of the point that's being raised. The OP raised a legitimate question and it is being discussed. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Rowell Posted August 24, 2016 Share Posted August 24, 2016 1 hour ago, themadsheep2001 said: People can and will complain about anything. Releasing features is something that should gradually happening leading up to release, and that's something should happen with or without the pre-order. Unless they don't do their one feature a day Twitter feed reveal (or ideally something more meaty), there shouldn't be much issue here. The window closes October 14th, we should be hearing key features before then, irrespective of the game preorder really *looks at marketing* I think that's quite dismissive of you to say that. The OP raised a legitimate question for discussion. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
themadsheep2001 Posted August 24, 2016 Share Posted August 24, 2016 1 minute ago, Lord Rowell said: I think that's quite dismissive of you to say that. The OP raised a legitimate question for discussion. Wasn't talking about the OP, thanks Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
talhak Posted August 24, 2016 Share Posted August 24, 2016 9 hours ago, Neil Brock said: We've made a number of different approaches to this over the years and it's difficult to say which ones are strictly 'right' or 'wrong'. I think until we try them we won't know. If say a large number people are put off by pre-ordering prior to any feature announcement then fair enough, if that proves to be the case then we'll realise it wasn't the right strategy. We appreciate people having a discussion about this and can understand the differing opinions. If you've bought FM every year and enjoyed it, then pre-order it early and get the two week beta. If you're in no rush, as Wakers said wait weeks or months after release, hear the reviews, see the new features, play the demo etc. Everyone has a different take on this. So do whatever you want! Fair enough, thanks @Neil Brock for your kind and tolerance - which I always see from you! Well, I think the most annoying thing is the unknown schedule. This is always same, we never have any information about Beta. I understand the business side but I think since the fan-base are pretty loyal, SI do not need to think too much about the business side. FM has the most loyal (long term) customers than any other game I think (me and some of my friends are also one of them). There are really a few core features (such as more realistic match engine, up-to-date database, more accurate tactics & training system, not going to be a game that offers marriage, spending money, etc.) that most (and maybe long term) FM fans demand. So revealing the calendar would make us to be more patient & knowledgeable about the game. For example, the date announcements are going to be started can be revealed. The date Beta will be released can be revealed, as a software engineer I am very well aware of the importance of the planning phase of the software development. Every single software that is developed by a professional dev team has a certain calendar. Unless there are no uncertainties, we always need to check the Twitter profiles of Miles Jacobson & Football Manager to find out what is going on as it is happened last years. It is really frustrating to repeat this process every day as we have some other responsibilities to do. Hope you consider my thought as a long-term FM player. Cheers. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted August 24, 2016 Share Posted August 24, 2016 That pos 25 minutes ago, talhak said: Fair enough, thanks @Neil Brock for your kind and tolerance - which I always see from you! Well, I think the most annoying thing is the unknown schedule. This is always same, we never have any information about Beta. I understand the business side but I think since the fan-base are pretty loyal, SI do not need to think too much about the business side. FM has the most loyal (long term) customers than any other game I think (me and some of my friends are also one of them). There are really a few core features (such as more realistic match engine, up-to-date database, more accurate tactics & training system, not going to be a game that offers marriage, spending money, etc.) that most (and maybe long term) FM fans demand. So revealing the calendar would make us to be more patient & knowledgeable about the game. For example, the date announcements are going to be started can be revealed. The date Beta will be released can be revealed, as a software engineer I am very well aware of the importance of the planning phase of the software development. Every single software that is developed by a professional dev team has a certain calendar. Unless there are no uncertainties, we always need to check the Twitter profiles of Miles Jacobson & Football Manager to find out what is going on as it is happened last years. It is really frustrating to repeat this process every day as we have some other responsibilities to do. Hope you consider my thought as a long-term FM player. Cheers. Things looks a lot like you're accusing SI of not be a professional team, let's not have any more of that shall we. I'm also not too sure whether your first sentence was disingenuous sarcasm, if it is then again no more please. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Just-Wool Posted August 24, 2016 Share Posted August 24, 2016 2 hours ago, 2calvin said: This is important because its easy to criticize, how about 30% discount? So it *isn't* cheaper elsewhere? Wasnt it possible to add FM11 and FM12 to the mix for an extra 5% each off? Extend the discount to a month after release? Until christmas? all year round? So the customers I value so much are truly in control That'd be great for us, maybe Sega or Valve wouldn't be too happy with that though. Keep in mind, for SI to get this discount they'd have had to get it approved by Sega that they can, in principle do it. Then they'd have to talk to Valve and see if it's A: Viable from a technological standpoint (I've not seen a game give an incremental discount based on previous purchases before) and B: Whether or not Valve are happy with the lower revenue they might get from this discount being applied. It may well be that SI pushed to get everything discounted since Steam became compulsory. It may well be that they wanted it to go all the way to release but Sega or Valve pushed back on it. If I was Valve, I'd not be liking a discount going post release like this and then going in to the territory of their Autumn and winter sales. Not when this game is a nice little earner for them as it's exclusively through their own platform. It may well be they just went "The peasants have been unruly, throw them some scraps." The only people who know that are the people involved in the decisions and they would never divulge that info. Steam will be more expensive anyway, you're paying the publisher and the platform, so you'll always get cheaper elsewhere, cheaper, however doesn't necessarily mean ethical though. Grey market sellers operate in a market where no one truly knows where the keys are from after all. I, for one, would rather ensure the publisher that makes the game gets the money for my sale. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
talhak Posted August 24, 2016 Share Posted August 24, 2016 9 minutes ago, Barside said: That pos Things looks a lot like you're accusing SI of not be a professional team, let's not have any more of that shall we. I'm also not too sure whether your first sentence was disingenuous sarcasm, if it is then again no more please. I did not mean SI to be a unprofessional team; opposite of that I mean that every professional dev team has a certain date, so SI too. (so I request dates to be more certain) I never mean anything like you accuse me to @Neil Brock, I always mention him as a kind & helpful one; you can ask him. So now you are unfair to me for both of the sentences with saying unbelievable things that I have never thought. Do not worry, if I mean something, I just say it instead of disingenuous sarcasm. You should apologize for this behaviour. @Barside Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SI Staff Miles Jacobson Posted August 24, 2016 SI Staff Share Posted August 24, 2016 Brocky may well not thank me for posting on this thread, but there are some posts here which I find quite incredible, and depressing, in equal measure. For at least the last couple of years the pre-order for the game has started before we've announced features. Retailers like to start pre-orders as early as possible. We like to announce features and show screenshots when we can guarantee that they will be in the game (unlike some devs) which means announcing things later than most games. But certainly way before other forms of entertainment announce things - you can't hear any tracks of a new album until a few weeks before release when the first single comes out. You can't find out a plot line in a TV show until it comes out. The loyalty scheme is exactly that - it's a loyalty scheme. For our most loyal customers. Those that, pretty much every year, pre-order the game without knowing anything about it because the pre-order opens before we announce game features. We are, literally, giving away money because the vast majority of those that pre-order at that stage would do anyway. Are pre-orders higher because of the loyalty scheme? Yes - they are. Which is awesome. It shows it was a good idea and lots of people want to take advantage of it. And it's awesome even though it's costing us money because those same people who are pre-ordering would likely buy the game anyway because to get the maximum discount, which is by far and away the one being used most, they would have to own the last 4 of our games. And I thank them very much for being loyal. And have wanted to do a loyalty scheme for years. And have spoken to Steam about it for years. And SEGA for years. And this year Steam have provided us the capability, and I thank them nearly as much as I thank those that are pre-ordering. What we are announcing, and when, is a moot point because the loyalty scheme is for loyal customers. Those that were going to buy the game anyway. For the same reason that we don't announce things until we know they are definitely going to be in the game, we don't announce dates of things until we know they are 100% going to be achieved. The official internal beta release date is "when Miles says it's ready" (not talking in the first person, honest - it's just what the date is). Sure, we have target dates, which this year we've announced as "at least 2 weeks before release". Normally that is "around 2 weeks before release" which could mean 2 and a half, could mean 1 and a half. This year it's "at least 2" which means "a minimum of 2 weeks". You want to wait until announcements about the game are made before pre-ordering? That's cool. Absolutely your choice. You want to wait until reviews come out? That's cool too. You want to try the demo first? That's why we still make a demo, when so few other studios do. It's all cool. Or sick. Or whatever the cool word for cool is nowadays. We have target dates for announcements too. But not only will those depend on me being happy with the features we're going to announce, it also depends on legal clearance, licensing clearance, getting the right screenshots, how busy we all are, unexpected opportunities etc etc. Most of those things are unknown known's. We know we need to do them, but they could be affected by lots of things - what if one of our licensing partners are on holiday the day we find the right screenshot? What if someone offers us an amazing opportunity to do something that's never been done before and we decide to change our plans to take advantage of it? We've been doing this for more than 20 years now. We've been through this process lots of times. We've seen how others do it in games, and other industries. We adapt - in the way we develop, the way we announce and the games we make. We're not perfect. No one is, company or person. But we always try our best. And to have people complaining about a loyalty scheme where we're giving money away as thank you to our loyal players who we love to bits is one of those times where I really don't know whether to laugh or cry. Right - I'm back to my monk-like forum existence now. Play nicely. And sorry Neil if you'd rather I hadn't posted this. You can tell me off in the morning Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cris182 Posted August 24, 2016 Share Posted August 24, 2016 It's as simple as 'Option' you have that, You don't have to take it up, But IF you wish then you can Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Rowell Posted August 24, 2016 Share Posted August 24, 2016 @Miles Jacobson Have to say that on the whole that's a very fair response re. the issue of pre-order, reasons why you might need to delay feature release information and so on, so thanks for the contribution. Though you do in that post write an awful lot about the loyalty offer, which isn't at all what the issue at hand here is - I think everyone to a tee appreciates that offer - but to reiterate its not the issue here. You are forever the salesperson Miles but sometimes, just stick with the point. I too am dismayed by some of the responses here, which seem like nothing more than to shout down a perfectly reasonable question and I've seen this too much on these forums over the years. Doesn't reflect well on SI at all. I am also wondering where the person who posted the OP has got to... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ceching You Out Posted August 24, 2016 Share Posted August 24, 2016 7 minutes ago, Lord Rowell said: @Miles Jacobson Have to say that on the whole that's a very fair response re. the issue of pre-order, reasons why you might need to delay feature release information and so on, so thanks for the contribution. Though you do in that post write an awful lot about the loyalty offer, which isn't at all what the issue at hand here is - I think everyone to a tee appreciates that offer - but to reiterate its not the issue here. You are forever the salesperson Miles but sometimes, just stick with the point. I too am dismayed by some of the responses here, which seem like nothing more than to shout down a perfectly reasonable question and I've seen this too much on these forums over the years. Doesn't reflect well on SI at all. I am also wondering where the person who posted the OP has got to... To be fair it is a reasonable question to ponder, but there's also only one reasonable answer. It's hard for a genuine discussion to emerge when one side of the argument consists of complaints that consumers are being provided with an option to purchase earlier while still having the exact same options to purchase later that they always have. Information on the release will continue to be available during the same timeframe it always has been. There is, quite literally, no downside to this offer unless perhaps you make some very esoteric, detailed argument about how this contributes to trends in the gaming industry as a whole, etc. etc. (which no one has) . If you're comfortable purchasing FM based on the limited knowledge you have, you get a discount; if not, wait for the release. Maybe not win-win, but at least win-lose nothing! And this is coming from someone who has no intention to pre-order. I'll wait to purchase like I always do because that option has not changed in the slightest. But why would I be bothered by others using the pre-order loyalty discount? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swell86 Posted August 24, 2016 Share Posted August 24, 2016 I have to say that I'm a big fan of the Steam 20% off deal for loyal customers. I've bought every version back to the CM days & loved playing them. I anticipate that I'll have a great time playing this year's version as well. It's hard to believe that some of you would complain about the offer of a discount seeing that one of the most popular threads, as release day approaches every year, is the "Where's the best deal on FM?" thread. I for one say, thank you SI. I hope you do this every year. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
eriktous Posted August 24, 2016 Share Posted August 24, 2016 8 hours ago, BoxToBox said: More guns and explosions, distinct lack of guns and explosions in FM16. No, no, no; guns and explosions are so last century. The game needs more robots and lasers. More on topic, the answer to the question asked by the OP is "yes and no". There is no 'we'; the forum community is large and diverse and some will be OK with it, some won't, and some don't care either way. People in each camp will disagree with the reasoning of the others. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hilly27 Posted August 24, 2016 Share Posted August 24, 2016 5 hours ago, Lord Rowell said: I don't think its a fuss at all and tbh the way you phrase that is quite dismissive of the point that's being raised. The OP raised a legitimate question and it is being discussed. And this is a discussion. The OP is entitled to his view, as am I. Nobody is shouting him down, many agree with him, which is fine, but as a player since the very first game, I've seen issues like this raised time and again, and in the end the answer always lies with individual choice. As for being dismissive, you could read his question as inferring that in some way this is an underhand way of getting people to purchase a product which may or may not be up too scratch. Personally I don't think that's where he's coming from, but in any event I think the responses have been measured. But my personal view is that he's making a fuss about very little. Each to their own. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
benjawi. Posted August 24, 2016 Share Posted August 24, 2016 FM is one of the few games that I'll pre-order, and do so each year. New features or not, the game is pre-ordered. It's just wrong not to have the latest version. I know I'm going to get it anyway so it's no issue for me at all. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BoxToBox Posted August 24, 2016 Share Posted August 24, 2016 47 minutes ago, eriktous said: No, no, no; guns and explosions are so last century. The game needs more robots and lasers. Maybe we could start with guns and explosions, but after a few years all the regens get robots and lasers. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Rowell Posted August 24, 2016 Share Posted August 24, 2016 1 hour ago, Swell86 said: I have to say that I'm a big fan of the Steam 20% off deal for loyal customers. I've bought every version back to the CM days & loved playing them. I anticipate that I'll have a great time playing this year's version as well. It's hard to believe that some of you would complain about the offer of a discount seeing that one of the most popular threads, as release day approaches every year, is the "Where's the best deal on FM?" thread. I for one say, thank you SI. I hope you do this every year. Except that what you describe above is not the thread is about at all, go back to the OP. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
psucolonel Posted August 25, 2016 Share Posted August 25, 2016 I don't really care, but I will not purchase until I know what the details are. I am not concerned with saving 5 bucks. I am more concerned with quality and realism. My decision would be automatic however if SI would allow for the import of saves from version to version. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonfun1980 Posted August 25, 2016 Share Posted August 25, 2016 Not going to pre order until I see new features Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpitfireRob Posted August 25, 2016 Share Posted August 25, 2016 I'm happy as long as they update the teams and look forward to features when they arrive, would love to hear some features soon, hoping its a few weeks that they start doing features rather than days but it did seem like that from the press release. I got 20% with steam deal, no brainer for me. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sherdil Posted August 25, 2016 Share Posted August 25, 2016 7-8 years of playing every CM/FM game without halt kinda builds that trust level where you know, you will still enjoy the latest version of the game. Sure you have a favorite version/year but the minimum standards of enjoyment are still present in every single year of the game. So I give them that. Now, the moment, I pre-order, and the new game comes out with just a revamped database, then I'll start asking questions. The point is that new features are always available to improve gaming experience and SI have always delivered. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cannes Posted August 25, 2016 Share Posted August 25, 2016 19 hours ago, dREIS said: Who is "we"? I've bought the game without fail since 1999. Why on earth would I not pre-order it? I'm still getting the best football management simulation available. I'm getting 20% off and paying less than a pizza Gold leaf on those pizzas? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
fabioke Posted August 25, 2016 Share Posted August 25, 2016 @Miles Jacobson I don't see any problem with this policy. People have the option to wait as the 20% will still be possible after we know more. Nobody is forcing us to buy it and there are some people (including me since 98/99) that buy the game anyway (even if I have less time for it each year). Thank you for the 20%, it's very appreciated. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
themadsheep2001 Posted August 25, 2016 Share Posted August 25, 2016 9 hours ago, Jonfun1980 said: Not going to pre order until I see new features And the fact that it's open till October 14th will more than likely allow you to do so Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
santy001 Posted August 25, 2016 Share Posted August 25, 2016 It's a shame there's some cynicism attached to a nice gesture, but obviously there is quite a few other game developers in recent times who have let people down. Food for thought for SI more than anything but there's some great people in the SI community on tactics fronts etc that SI could utilise to do some live streams of an early peak at the game but that's SI's right to decide if/when they'll ever pursue anything like that. The lack of polish tends to be fine, and if its with a knowledgeable player they can generally do a decent job of it. It's not hard to get something on the go on twitch these days, I often stream world of warcraft myself and it's a straight forward process. That's a different marketing angle entirely though It's a nice gesture though, you might get bigger discounts elsewhere of course but it's nice for more of the money to funnel back to the developer directly to keep growing and keep having more funds to throw at further development. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
QWERTYOP Posted August 25, 2016 Share Posted August 25, 2016 I don't see ANYONE complaining about the offer of a discount. Let's stop saying that, shall we? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maw74 Posted August 25, 2016 Share Posted August 25, 2016 Quote Are we OK with SI launching a pre-order campaign with absolutely no details on new features? Personally yes I'm ok with it, You have the choice, pre-order now or wait for more info and then you can pre-order. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TQ13PS Posted August 25, 2016 Share Posted August 25, 2016 Why shouldn't we be okay with it, they are offering us upto 20% off for loyalty. I for one will be pre ordering as I do every year, but like it's been said before, it's up to you. FM17 will include A number of new animations for the match engine Lots of Polish An overhaul on a particular feature More media questions There you go, so no you can all go and pre order ? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Rowell Posted August 25, 2016 Share Posted August 25, 2016 I do keep reading - you have the choice. McDonalds, KFC, Wendys etc. all have been saying this as well. Now I actually liked what Miles said in his post. But, re. you have the choice, frankly this is a spurious argument. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ceching You Out Posted August 25, 2016 Share Posted August 25, 2016 45 minutes ago, Lord Rowell said: I do keep reading - you have the choice. McDonalds, KFC, Wendys etc. all have been saying this as well. Now I actually liked what Miles said in his post. But, re. you have the choice, frankly this is a spurious argument. How so? Let's change the product sold. Please point out where there's even a whiff of immorality. I'm now selling houses. In fact, I've been a regular seller to varying degrees of buyer satisfaction for years -- enough so that there's a general idea of the type and quality of house that I sell. This year I decide to offer my houses even earlier than usual. Since the houses are still under construction (and because I appreciate my loyal buyers), I include a discount for purchasing early. The discount expires roughly once the construction finishes, at which point you can buy a house at the normal price. In between I'll release information on the layout, pictures of the fixtures, and what I expect the finished house to look like. Where have I, as the seller, crossed (or even approached) the line here? It's a much different situation if I tell you "buy my now house, sight unseen, or you'll never get the chance" because that removes the choice and amounts to strong arming of sorts. Miles himself points out that they're offering a loyalty discount to early purchasers but, crucially, giving people the choice to wait as well without the slightest penalty. It's baffling to read a thread where a handful of adamant posters assert that it's "immoral" or "complacent" of SI but offer no real explanation of why besides loose concept association that doesn't pass the slightest rational rigor. Is it any wonder then that the discussion, in your opinion, isn't an even one? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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