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Neil Brock

Football Manager 2017 Release Date and Pre Purchase Details Announced

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Been quite some time since I played the game, as time was consumed for other things, but then I realised to myself how polished Football Manager itself is. There are PLENTY of big games out there that have so many huge/big bugs or gameplay elements thats broken and here we are, complaning about the most small detail in a Football Managing game ranging from injuries to ME 'bugs' and arguing if it is realistic enough or not. Let me just give you the example of one of the most played games in the world, counter strike global offensive. Where the developer doesn't care about the game. There was a game breaking bug that wasn't patched for over a year until the community gave the developer the fix. And even yet when they managed to fix it, they introduced some others bugs along with it, which took another few weeks to fix. And then theres still various bugs in it thats not fixed for over 4(!!!!) years and various gameplay issues that although have been complained about for yearssss(4+) is still not fixed as well. 

 

Come on guys, take a minute to appreciate how extremely well this game is made despite all it does is simulate 22 guys on a pitch running and kicking a ball. It does it extremely well and the amount of details the game has is amazing. 


Also about the loyality issue, Im here all ready to try to demo and buy a copy if I like it. Remember, tons of good games dont even have a demo... Just reminds me again how amazing this game is if you look aside all the small issues. 

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My thread about this got locked down, but I do wish they'd give a definite date for the Beta release.  I'd like to plan my work schedule around it, and I need to do that very soon.

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Just now, suncrush said:

My thread about this got locked down, but I do wish they'd give a definite date for the Beta release.  I'd like to plan my work schedule around it, and I need to do that very soon.

They can't give one, because there isn't one. SI will release it when they're ready to, even if it is 'only' Beta.

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3 minutes ago, suncrush said:

My thread about this got locked down, but I do wish they'd give a definite date for the Beta release.  I'd like to plan my work schedule around it, and I need to do that very soon.

No info apart from just after the feature announcements which will be at mid Oct:

 

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3 hours ago, HUNT3R said:

They can't give one, because there isn't one. SI will release it when they're ready to, even if it is 'only' Beta.

Roger

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See you all on here tomorrow for 400 pages of people saying it looks no different, and that we still haven't seen any new features, and that isn't it all just the most terrible thing ever.

Interesting to see what comes out.  Could maybe be a full simulated game streamed over Twitch?  If so, nice little way of doing things.  I presume they'll then be able to show off a number of things - the Match Engine, obviously; the maybe improved twitch integration; any in-game changes to tactics/management; maybe even multiplayer if they're having two people go up against each other.  Of course, it's probably just going to be a simulated match to show off animations, but even that should give a good insight into what kind of changes the ME and 3D will get.

Or it'll be a car crash.  Could go either way.

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Oooh a bold shout diving straight into the ME. I like it though. 

Should be a great chance to see if the annoyingly overpowered wing play has been sorted out. 

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1 hour ago, themadsheep2001 said:

No Monday night football tonight. So going to show our own match instead. 7.30. Here. #FM17

show off of match engine as first announcment for new game is a good news. shows they arent afraid to go live so early. makes me think it will be the best ME in years. am I too optimistic?

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It certainly shows they have confidence in it. Hopefully we'll see other features too (team talk/tactics/OIs etc).

Cue 4 goals from full back assists :D

Edited by martplfc1

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1 hour ago, MBarbaric said:

show off of match engine as first announcment for new game is a good news. shows they arent afraid to go live so early. makes me think it will be the best ME in years. am I too optimistic?

I couldn't say, But it shows that Miles is wanting show people what the game is shaping up to be, and he must feel that its getting there, if not quite there (4 weeks to release means there is still time to work on it, so still work in progress IMO)

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Looks a lot better, but:

Still a bit 'slidy'.

Some bad misses which should result in a 'head in hands' reaction from the players.

Sprinting animations are poor.

Great build-up play for the goal and nice first touch from Lukaku. Excited that there's still 4 weeks before release to sharpen everything up.

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General build-up play doesn't look exactly earth-shatteringly different from 16. Still every pass has to close the distance to the goal. I'll retain my skeptisicm. 

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27 minutes ago, Blarry said:

General build-up play doesn't look exactly earth-shatteringly different from 16. Still every pass has to close the distance to the goal. I'll retain my skeptisicm. 

Yep. Disappointing.

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3 minutes ago, Ronaldo Beckham said:

I would prefer Sigames and Sega to concentrate on the manager part of the game, not the 2nd rate Fifa watching sim.

People ask for ages about a ME update, one comes along, and this ^ ^ is one of the first comments. 

This place :rolleyes:

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I never asked for an ME update, I never play games in 3D, if the majority like it then so be it, but just saying I would rather they be a manager game and not a Fifa sim game, sorry if I offended you.

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The ME is the most fundamental part of the game. It's not 'how it looks' in itself that's particularly important but 'how it plays' is critical. 

If the engine is flawed anything you do in the game world is pretty much flawed. Improvement in the ME should always be the priority and I hope it's been prioritised this year.  

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1 minute ago, DP said:

If the engine is flawed anything you do in the game world is pretty much flawed.

This is not true. As long as the statistical outcome of match results is next to real football stats, the game does still produce a realistic football simulation. The core of the game has two parts, the AI and the ME.

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Hopefully the "we're not telling you anything about the game. Pre-order it now please!" approach has given them enough negative feedback for them to not consider the same path again. Honestly, why is every build up so completely different? Just figure out what works, and stick with it. Hope people aren't giving Miles a hard time about this match clip - he'll probably start blocking people and/or tell them to buy FIFA instead... Again.

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11 minutes ago, Ronaldo Beckham said:

I never asked for an ME update, I never play games in 3D, if the majority like it then so be it, but just saying I would rather they be a manager game and not a Fifa sim game, sorry if I offended you.

This doesnt make sense at all, since FIFA is a manual control game. They are quite frankly worlds apart.

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2 minutes ago, QWERTYOP said:

Hopefully the "we're not telling you anything about the game. Pre-order it now please!" approach has given them enough negative feedback for them to not consider the same path again. Honestly, why is every build up so completely different? Just figure out what works, and stick with it. Hope people aren't giving Miles a hard time about this match clip - he'll probably start blocking people and/or tell them to buy FIFA instead... Again.

Pre orders have actually been much better than anticipated. The build up is actually mostly aimed towards beta and release date

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4 minutes ago, KUBI said:

This is not true. As long as the statistical outcome of match results is next to real football stats, the game does still produce a realistic football simulation. The core of the game has two parts, the AI and the ME.

For the sake of realism it is for me. 

Take FM16 - I know that wing play is over powered. This means it naturally becomes important by default to buy good wingers and full backs and immediately breaks the immersion. 

I get what you're saying, playing it as a game is fine but I want a well balanced ME that is as representative of real football as possible. If I see strikers missing too many one on ones I want to know that I can go out and buy a better striker that will score more one on ones. And not fail to do so just because it's not programmed correctly (or the animations are not there) in the ME. 

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People playing this game in different ways, I think the two major kinds are the ones who are looking for a improved AI and the others who want an improved ME. SI did try to do both with all releases, but there will always be room for improvement. Some people here expecting the perfect ME or AI or both, which is something impossible. Just because you can compare this game always with real life football, as it is a simulation of it, but it will always be an approach to it. I can understand some frustration from people who think it should be possible to make it a lot more realistic, but if you compare it to other simulations you can see how good this game is, even with some flaws and issues.

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9 minutes ago, DP said:

For the sake of realism it is for me. 

Take FM16 - I know that wing play is over powered. This means it naturally becomes important by default to buy good wingers and full backs and immediately breaks the immersion. 

I get what you're saying, playing it as a game is fine but I want a well balanced ME that is as representative of real football as possible. If I see strikers missing too many one on ones I want to know that I can go out and buy a better striker that will score more one on ones. And not fail to do so just because it's not programmed correctly (or the animations are not there) in the ME. 

Just playing devils advocate for a second rather than pushing to get the best out of a ME issue why aren't you buying better DCs to deal with the crosses and better defensive fullbacks?

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So take a player in FM and his conversion rate and compare it to real life conversion rate of a similar player with similar stats under similer circumstances. Then come back and tell me if FM is not realistic enough and the variance is way higher/lower. I hear too much from people claiming stuff without proof. The SI team has tons of stats and years of experience, its not as broken as you think it is Im 100% sure. 

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24 minutes ago, Ronaldo Beckham said:

I would prefer Sigames and Sega to concentrate on the manager part of the game, not the 2nd rate Fifa watching sim.

23 minutes ago, Dagenham_Dave said:

People ask for ages about a ME update, one comes along, and this ^ ^ is one of the first comments. 

This place :rolleyes:

16 minutes ago, Ronaldo Beckham said:

I never asked for an ME update, I never play games in 3D, if the majority like it then so be it, but just saying I would rather they be a manager game and not a Fifa sim game, sorry if I offended you.

4 minutes ago, themadsheep2001 said:

This doesnt make sense at all, since FIFA is a manual control game. They are quite frankly worlds apart.

Do people here intentionally take things out of context, point out everything but the actual point of the post and not addressing what's actually being said?
Ronaldo Beckham's point was that he wants SI and SEGA to concentrate on the manager part, of Football Manager, of the game and not the 3D visuals.
That was it.
When someone pointed out a general thing about something that didn't address Ronaldo Beckham's point at all he basically said was that it's about the manager part.
Then people talk about all the other details but the point he's making? Why?

The footage itself, for me, was extremely underwhelming.
I played FM16 next to the FM17 video (i know it's work in progress) and FM16 looked so much better.
 

GKs still getting a solid boost mid-air when they're throwing themselves when going for a save.
Ridiculous decisions and out-of-this-world passes that are almost physically impossible.
Clear boundary-reaction instead of a smooth transition, still, when going from one area of the pitch to another.

Looking forward to more details to see if that can catch more of my interest. I'm hoping.

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I totally get the fact it will not be perfect. I just want as many known niggles and bugs ironed out as possible. 

The fact it's impossible for a goalkeeper to be sent off, for example, really bothers me. It's something that's a fairly regular part of football that cannot happen in the best manager game around. I know there are reasons why it isn't there but constant focus and improvement is enough for me. Would be nice if things happened faster but you can't have it all I guess. 

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3 minutes ago, Cougar2010 said:

Just playing devils advocate for a second rather than pushing to get the best out of a ME issue why aren't you buying better DCs to deal with the crosses and better defensive fullbacks?

This is exactly the problem :D

I know (and SI know) that there were issues with this aspect of the game. That means - yes I can possibly improve it slightly - the way the engine works means anything I try to do is not really going to solve it. I'm trying to overcompensate and chuck solutions at a problem that is inherently prevalent. 

With balance your suggestion is a sound one but I feel last years ME just wasn't balanced as well as it could be. By patch 3 I'm usually loving the ME but last years was an issue, for whatever reason, and I'm sure it'll be improved in 17. 

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4 minutes ago, roykela said:

The footage itself, for me, was extremely underwhelming.
I played FM16 next to the FM17 video (i know it's work in progress) and FM16 looked so much better.

On a positive note WIP footage from past versions has been significantly polished by release so I'm hopeful we see similar this year.

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One problem with very complex structures is that you can not change something and hope that it does only affect that element. Every change in the code has a side effect on other parts of the code. This could be the reason why some bug or flaw in the game will not be addressed in an update, because it could making things on other parts of the ME worse. So you concentrate on such things for the next release, knowing that it could cause issues that will give you something to work for the next updates. It's not that easy as some people thinking. 

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Just now, Cougar2010 said:

On a positive note WIP footage from past versions has been significantly polished by release so I'm hopeful we see similar this year.

Oh yeah. I do keep that in mind. I hope so too.

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1 minute ago, DP said:

This is exactly the problem :D

I know (and SI know) that there were issues with this aspect of the game. That means - yes I can possibly improve it slightly - the way the engine works means anything I try to do is not really going to solve it. I'm trying to overcompensate and chuck solutions at a problem that is inherently prevalent. 

With balance your suggestion is a sound one but I feel last years ME just wasn't balanced as well as it could be. By patch 3 I'm usually loving the ME but last years was an issue, for whatever reason, and I'm sure it'll be improved in 17. 

I've just looked at my stats from the last 50 matches - I've scored 35% of goals from crosses and conceded 42% which is more or less in line with real life stats and I'm doing nothing special tactics wise.

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I'm not having this discussion again. There are plenty of threads - with SI acknowledgement - about the fact that there are too many crosses (and goals relating from those chances) as well as the fact that full backs on attacking mentality are too powerful. 

It needs balancing and I'm sure it will be. 

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But some teams are conceding less from crosses than others. So what the people are asking for is the possibility to make changes in your tactics to avoid some of those goals. I understand that this could be frustrating, when you realize there is no way to do this. I just concentrate on other parts of the game if something happens, others will quit and start ranting on the forums. For me this game offers that much of joy with every release that I can do a momentary push, at least sometimes. :D

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Animated LED ad board hoardings are a nice addition. Hopefully they can be edited but if not, then the static ones can be reused.

Edited by stevemc

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33 minutes ago, themadsheep2001 said:

Pre orders have actually been much better than anticipated. The build up is actually mostly aimed towards beta and release date

Very sad if true. It'll just further S.I's belief that they can do whatever the Hell they like and still sell shedloads of copies anyway. They badly need competition. Maybe then they'd stop treating paying customers like an inconvenient, necessary evil.

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6 minutes ago, DP said:

I'm not having this discussion again. There are plenty of threads - with SI acknowledgement - about the fact that there are too many crosses (and goals relating from those chances) as well as the fact that full backs on attacking mentality are too powerful. 

It needs balancing and I'm sure it will be. 

Excellent sentiment, it's time for everyone to stop with the back & forth about FM16 issues that SI have acknowlegde, step away from "statistically" accurate point of view & just focus on whether what they saw from the most recent trailer looks closer to a football match than previous versions.

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1 minute ago, QWERTYOP said:

Very sad if true. It'll just further S.I's belief that they can do whatever the Hell they like and still sell shedloads of copies anyway. 

People don't buy a gaming product unless they actually want to play it. It's not a Gucci handbag that people buy to show off to their friends. 

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17 minutes ago, QWERTYOP said:

Very sad if true. It'll just further S.I's belief that they can do whatever the Hell they like and still sell shedloads of copies anyway. They badly need competition. Maybe then they'd stop treating paying customers like an inconvenient, necessary evil.

What utter nonsense

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Reaction is exactly how I thought it would be.  People reading far too much into it, and some pointing to it with gusto hoping it proves everything they've said is totally right you guys.  Like seriously.

When really it's just a bit...

200.gif

It's not bad, but the early footage in it looked very much like FM16.  Not the same, mind, but a slight evolution rather than a revolution.  It showed more later on, and probably did more to people paying closer attention.  

It'll change before release, then probably again before the proper release.  It'll then be better or worse than the current FM16 one.  At the absolute worst, it'll be just about worth the (relatively, in the industry) small price that it charges.  Won't be the end of the world.

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  • I care about match engine (ME) more than 3D view - these are two distinct terms we all should be aware of. The side effect due to the complexity of the code behind 3D & ME is the reason of evaluation instead of revolution.
  • I have been looking forward to see if the sound has been improved in terms of crowd reactions, general match sounds, etc. or not. So a disappointing for me to not be able to hear the sound.
  • Not a big fan of the new camera angle - the behind goal low - since FM means watching the game from TV instead of an action gameplay for me. We should be able to see the pitch as much as possible, the movement from back to forward. So not an ideal camera angle to watch the live highlights, maybe can be used for replays. It is too close, if it will be, then other details such as specific player faces, readable names on kits, hair styles, etc. should be there too. Thankfully, the director camera is still there as Miles Jacobson confirmed before & we saw in the video. At short, FM should have its own, unique 3D view apart from other arcade games. The realism level of animations is the key here I think while kicking the ball, running, dribbling, crossing, overhead kicks, etc.

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Early observations, please take in context as I realise we're not even at beta yet.

- Generally like the graphics / animations, again these have improved

- One section of the "game" showed quite a scruffy battle in midfield with triple closing down, ball in the air lots, no-one able to quite get a foot on it - this is good and more like real football :)

- Seemed to be too many long shots, either players making bad decisions or lack of off-ball movement from other players

- Saw few if any crosses being blocked - worried about defending of FBs & tracking back (lack of) of wide players

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55 minutes ago, roykela said:

Do people here intentionally take things out of context, point out everything but the actual point of the post and not addressing what's actually being said?
Ronaldo Beckham's point was that he wants SI and SEGA to concentrate on the manager part, of Football Manager, of the game and not the 3D visuals.
That was it.
When someone pointed out a general thing about something that didn't address Ronaldo Beckham's point at all he basically said was that it's about the manager part.
Then people talk about all the other details but the point he's making? Why?

The footage itself, for me, was extremely underwhelming.
I played FM16 next to the FM17 video (i know it's work in progress) and FM16 looked so much better.
 

GKs still getting a solid boost mid-air when they're throwing themselves when going for a save.
Ridiculous decisions and out-of-this-world passes that are almost physically impossible.
Clear boundary-reaction instead of a smooth transition, still, when going from one area of the pitch to another.

Looking forward to more details to see if that can catch more of my interest. I'm hoping.

SI can do both. Nothing was taken out of context. It's possible to aim for improved graphics without aiming for FIFA like looks. Hope that clears everything up.

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7 minutes ago, talhak said:

The side effect due to the complexity of the code behind 3D & ME is the reason of evaluation instead of revolution.

No, that's two different things. The complexity is in the ME, 3D are just animations which represent what happens.

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I'm gonna buy it anyway because that's what I do but that throw in thing at 0:34 has been haunting me for years and is still there...

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Hard to judge a livestream on extended, as extended doesn't have much general game play build up. It was a scruffy match that looks like one though, Which I liked. Actually like the choice to live stream a game rather than pick one that had been a really good example, and show the best bits.

 

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1 minute ago, KUBI said:

No, that's two different things. The complexity is in the ME, 3D are just animations which represent what happens.

Isn't the 3D view also complex too? Aren't there too many varients based on player physics and situations. Shooting while running should be a lot different than the set pieces, or first time shoots, etc. That's the idea.

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