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Neil Brock

Football Manager 2017 Release Date and Pre Purchase Details Announced

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2 minutes ago, forameuss said:

It'll be top trolling if they released the video minutes after the loyalty bonus expired.

That would be amazing. Tears and snotters EVERYWHERE. 

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6 minutes ago, KingBuzzo15 said:

Beta release date usually gets announced in the features vid as well doesn't it?

It's already been announced.  Only thing that hasn't is when it will be.  Which never gets announced.  It just appears.

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56 minutes ago, forameuss said:

It'll be top trolling if they released the video minutes after the loyalty bonus expired.

I don't want to be trolled :(.

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18 hours ago, themadsheep2001 said:

That ME definitely isn't perfect, but the idea that there shouldn't be bad football is crazy.

Considering how much football people watch, I'm suprised people don't see just how much football is actually really average.

That's why amateur leagues are so much more fun to watch. It gives you the idea 'Well, I could do this better' :D

Definitely with you on the point of software always having bugs. That's why I am making such good money as a software tester!

Only thing I am hoping for at the moment is that the concept of mid-oktober is stretched forward a bit ;)

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57 minutes ago, fabioke said:

I don't want to be trolled :(.

So buy the game and relax. You'll be able to get money back if you don't like it.

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Am I the only one who feels like there won't be any feature release video, statement etc., but the beta will be release much earlier than the expected?

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2 hours ago, KUBI said:

 

 

1 minute ago, shogoki said:

Am I the only one who feels like there won't be any feature release video, statement etc., but the beta will be release much earlier than the expected?

This is the answer...

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I gave in and bought it. 35 quid for 100+ hours of game seems fair to me.

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35 minutes ago, KUBI said:

 

This is the answer...

I am really surprised to see that so many FM-gamers are a bit pessimistic about the expected FM 17 features that will be revealed.
The lack of early hyped information about the new features of FM 17 just makes me more curious and hopeful about it: we are being summoned to buying the game without knowing it's new features. I think that SI would never opt for that kind of marketing when there won't be a very decent new game, including great new features. 

I'm just really looking forward to the new game and am expecting some major improvements, just by the fact that it would be fantastic marketing for the game. It's like SI is telling me: you don't have to worry about it, just buy it. The new features will be great. 

Edited by VV Bal op de Lat

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Ridiculously excited for the data analyst role.

Should help out decoding the analysis tab

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47 minutes ago, KUBI said:

 

This is the answer...

Should add that they are currently not looking to shorten the video, but change couple of shots, according to Miles' twitter

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9 hours ago, Dagenham_Dave said:

Have you never watched a game in real life and thought a player had a poor game, only for the media to give him an excellent match rating the next day? And by 'real life', I don't mean five minutes on Match of the Day. 

In any case, to even think that there isn't any alignment between the game's visual representation and the engine itself is just hyperbolic nonsense. 

Yes, but that's normally because it's clear the journalist didn't pay much attention to the match.  And the proof in that pudding is usually their entire match report.

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I have just a slight sneaky feeling that the BETA is going to come 3 weeks before rather 2 weeks. The pre-order offer ends next week (14th) and the middle of October was apparently the reveal of features etc...but I think they just release the BETA next Friday and give us 3 weeks to find all the bugs

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9 hours ago, Cougar2010 said:

I'm sorry but quite simply you are wrong.

I've explained why and Sven has also added his own explanations above but we can't force you to recognise that, its something you have to do yourself. 

Moving back to your original point though.

The stats between the 3d & the ME are always correct but there are areas that are affected by opinion.   CCCs are one where different people have different opinions as to what constitutes a CCC (As you have shown above), the ME is coded to recognise what it thinks it a CCC but like any opinion users can have a different idea.  Ratings are another that is subjective but the factual ones such as shots, passing %, fouls, cards etc do match up, if they don't its a rather bad bug.

Well all of the licenced coaches I know and a Manager of a League Two team I personally know disagree with you and agree with me.  I suppose if I really wanted to my own validation I could ask a mate of mine to ask his father in law, a current Premier League Manager, what their view is but I have a feeling I already know what they'd say.  But as Sven agrees with you I guess we must all be wrong.  I mean I am sure a player of an FM game knows more than people in the actual game.....

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3 minutes ago, Chris21 said:

I have just a slight sneaky feeling that the BETA is going to come 3 weeks before rather 2 weeks. The pre-order offer ends next week (14th) and the middle of October was apparently the reveal of features etc...but I think they just release the BETA next Friday and give us 3 weeks to find all the bugs

I'm still going to hold out.  I don't really care about the loyalty discount because if SI don't grant it to loyal customers who hold out?  Well I am sure their loyalty won't last so it benefits no one.  Besides, the Beta lasts a few months anyway.

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2 hours ago, VV Bal op de Lat said:

I am really surprised to see that so many FM-gamers are a bit pessimistic about the expected FM 17 features that will be revealed.
The lack of early hyped information about the new features of FM 17 just makes me more curious and hopeful about it: we are being summoned to buying the game without knowing it's new features. I think that SI would never opt for that kind of marketing when there won't be a very decent new game, including great new features. 

I'm just really looking forward to the new game and am expecting some major improvements, just by the fact that it would be fantastic marketing for the game. It's like SI is telling me: you don't have to worry about it, just buy it. The new features will be great. 

Fatigue effect.  The last two versions have been somewhat disappointing.  Especially as both were still poor post final patch.  I think it's natural time around that a few people are going to be more cautious this time around.

I really hope the game is a considerable improvement as it would be a great one for me to get being a Spurs fan (starting off in the Champion's League).  But as I stated elsewhere I care little about new features and I am more interested on the improvement and fixing of existing ones.  The game doesn't need anymore clumsy implemented gimmicks, e.g. Director of Football role, to create the illusion of reality.  It needs basic issues resolved and then it would be a great game rather than just an OK one.

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9 minutes ago, GSevensM75 said:

Well all of the licenced coaches I know and a Manager of a League Two team I personally know disagree with you and agree with me.  I suppose if I really wanted to my own validation I could ask a mate of mine to ask his father in law, a current Premier League Manager, what their view is but I have a feeling I already know what they'd say.  But as Sven agrees with you I guess we must all be wrong.  I mean I am sure a player of an FM game knows more than people in the actual game.....

Pretty sure you didn't explain the question to them correctly tbh.

As I said though its clear you have your idea fixed in your mind and aren't prepared to consider anything else so we'll just leave it there.

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13 minutes ago, Cougar2010 said:

Pretty sure you didn't explain the question to them correctly tbh.

As I said though its clear you have your idea fixed in your mind and aren't prepared to consider anything else so we'll just leave it there.

I explained it to them as such.  A player is free of the defence, bearing down on goal.  He is running directly towards the centre of the goal.  The keeper is coming out to narrow the angle.  Should the striker score?  Is there any occasion where the striker shouldn't be favourite to score?  Their answer was when a striker fails to tuck that away it's regarded as a very bad miss.  The only time it's not regarded as a bad miss is if you are clear through on goal at a very tight angle.  Otherwise the striker is always favourite and the more central he is to goal the greater the favourite he is.  Because a striker can also take a touch before shooting/rounding the keeper bearing down on goal one on one is regarded as a clearer scoring opportunity than a penalty kick.

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31 minutes ago, Chris21 said:

I have just a slight sneaky feeling that the BETA is going to come 3 weeks before rather 2 weeks. The pre-order offer ends next week (14th) and the middle of October was apparently the reveal of features etc...but I think they just release the BETA next Friday and give us 3 weeks to find all the bugs

I agree with you since Miles have always said features will be announced in the days leading up to the beta release.

 

p.s. The biggest 'loyalty' offer is for me releasing the Beta as soon as possible :thup: I can find out the features myself :D

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26 minutes ago, GSevensM75 said:

I explained it to them as such.  A player is free of the defence, bearing down on goal.  He is running directly towards the centre of the goal.  The keeper is coming out to narrow the angle.  Should the striker score?  Is there any occasion where the striker shouldn't be favourite to score?  Their answer was when a striker fails to tuck that away it's regarded as a very bad miss.  The only time it's not regarded as a bad miss is if you are clear through on goal at a very tight angle.  Otherwise the striker is always favourite and the more central he is to goal the greater the favourite he is.  Because a striker can also take a touch before shooting/rounding the keeper bearing down on goal one on one is regarded as a clearer scoring opportunity than a penalty kick.

Yes you asked a fairly generic question and got a fairly generic answer without going into the detail of the discussion.

I think Sven said that RL stats show that GKs save more than 50% in that type of circumstance while I would speak generally that while it would be seen as a bad miss GKs do stand a good chance of stopping a goal in that situation.  RL stats also show that PKs are scored more often than one on ones.

However the important part is that of direction and change of direction.  For a GK if a player is running directly towards him with the ball in front of him then it is relatively simple to close down the single angle which leaves the striker either with a small target if anything to aim at or faced with changing the direction of the ball to step away from the keeper and create a different angle.  From a GK perspective his target is to estimate how many steps/touches before the striker shoots/changes the angle and the point on the pitch that will happen.  This is much easier to do if there is a straight line running in front of you to the ball & striker.  Once identified the GK aims to reach that point slightly ahead of the striker resulting in at best claiming possession of the ball and at worse getting a touch when the striker shoots or tries to alter the angle.  Of course while the ball is inbetween the striker & the GK both players are making mental calculations & adapting to the changing split second situation while.  Good strikers can also get the better of good GKs in that situation by altering the point of impact in their favour which then allows them the touch to go past the keeper and tap in.  You also have to consider that there are other players on the pitch as well which can alter the situation.

Moving on from that the second point was that a striker stands a much higher % chance of scoring when a GK has two angles to mentally calculate rather than one.  If the ball is travelling in one direction (left to right/right to left) while the striker is moving in a different direction (towards goal for example) its much harder for the GK to calculate the point of impact and reach it (He then has to move in two directions not just forward or back) which increases the chance for the striker to reach the point first and often opens up more of an angle leaving the striker with a bigger target to aim for and therefore the general conversion rate is higher.  

 

EDIT

There is another element to the second part that I've missed which is very common.  That is when the striker doesn't run directly towards goal but runs across or at more of an angle to the goal this creates the same situation where the keeper has to calculate two angles and move left/right as well as forward & back.  Creating the second angle is what increases the conversion rate.

 

Edited by Cougar2010

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I personally think spending so long on the 3D engine is a waste of time since it is going to always be limited and look unrealistic barring some great technological leap with quantum computing. Just keep it how it is and STOP.. it is a time wasting exercise because the developments aren't that great with it year on yea - for one the animations still look terrible, but the graphics themselves look a bit better. You should spend longer making the core of the game realistic, and much less time on interface.

Edited by mfprez

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1 hour ago, VV Bal op de Lat said:

I am really surprised to see that so many FM-gamers are a bit pessimistic about the expected FM 17 features that will be revealed.
The lack of early hyped information about the new features of FM 17 just makes me more curious and hopeful about it: we are being summoned to buying the game without knowing it's new features. I think that SI would never opt for that kind of marketing when there won't be a very decent new game, including great new features. 

I'm just really looking forward to the new game and am expecting some major improvements, just by the fact that it would be fantastic marketing for the game. It's like SI is telling me: you don't have to worry about it, just buy it. The new features will be great. 

Doesn't make much sense though, if you have great new features wouldn't you just market them?

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29 minutes ago, Cougar2010 said:

Yes you asked a fairly generic question and got a fairly generic answer without going into the detail of the discussion.

I think Sven said that RL stats show that GKs save more than 50% in that type of circumstance while I would speak generally that while it would be seen as a bad miss GKs do stand a good chance of stopping a goal in that situation.  RL stats also show that PKs are scored more often than one on ones.

However the important part is that of direction and change of direction.  For a GK if a player is running directly towards him with the ball in front of him then it is relatively simple to close down the single angle which leaves the striker either with a small target if anything to aim at or faced with changing the direction of the ball to step away from the keeper and create a different angle.  From a GK perspective his target is to estimate how many steps/touches before the striker shoots/changes the angle and the point on the pitch that will happen.  This is much easier to do if there is a straight line running in front of you to the ball & striker.  Once identified the GK aims to reach that point slightly ahead of the striker resulting in at best claiming possession of the ball and at worse getting a touch when the striker shoots or tries to alter the angle.  Of course while the ball is inbetween the striker & the GK both players are making mental calculations & adapting to the changing split second situation while.  Good strikers can also get the better of good GKs in that situation by altering the point of impact in their favour which then allows them the touch to go past the keeper and tap in.  You also have to consider that there are other players on the pitch as well which can alter the situation.

Moving on from that the second point was that a striker stands a much higher % chance of scoring when a GK has two angles to mentally calculate rather than one.  If the ball is travelling in one direction (left to right/right to left) while the striker is moving in a different direction (towards goal for example) its much harder for the GK to calculate the point of impact and reach it (He then has to move in two directions not just forward or back) which increases the chance for the striker to reach the point first and often opens up more of an angle leaving the striker with a bigger target to aim for and therefore the general conversion rate is higher.  

 

EDIT

There is another element to the second part that I've missed which is very common.  That is when the striker doesn't run directly towards goal but runs across or at more of an angle to the goal this creates the same situation where the keeper has to calculate two angles and move left/right as well as forward & back.  Creating the second angle is what increases the conversion rate.

 

Spoke to Michael Owen about this. The idea is to approach at a slight angle to open your body up as you shoot, gives you maximum flexibility in shot options and technique, while still making the goal as big as possible for the keeper.

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56 minutes ago, GSevensM75 said:

I explained it to them as such.  A player is free of the defence, bearing down on goal.  He is running directly towards the centre of the goal.  The keeper is coming out to narrow the angle.  Should the striker score?  Is there any occasion where the striker shouldn't be favourite to score?  Their answer was when a striker fails to tuck that away it's regarded as a very bad miss.  The only time it's not regarded as a bad miss is if you are clear through on goal at a very tight angle.  Otherwise the striker is always favourite and the more central he is to goal the greater the favourite he is.  Because a striker can also take a touch before shooting/rounding the keeper bearing down on goal one on one is regarded as a clearer scoring opportunity than a penalty kick.

Lots, CCC conversion rates, let alone shot on target rates, are not anywhere near as high as people think they are.

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50 minutes ago, themadsheep2001 said:

Lots, CCC conversion rates, let alone shot on target rates, are not anywhere near as high as people think they are.

I'm under no illusion of that.  But that doesn't mean they shouldn't be stuck away.  It is usually the failing of the forward, rather than the brilliance of the keeper, that is the reason the ball doesn't hit the back of the net.  Many players screw up when given too much time to think.  A great example of this was Robbie Keane.

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54 minutes ago, themadsheep2001 said:

Spoke to Michael Owen about this. The idea is to approach at a slight angle to open your body up as you shoot, gives you maximum flexibility in shot options and technique, while still making the goal as big as possible for the keeper.

Indeed.  Also allows the attacker the feign and gives them time to see what the keeper is going to do.  I always coach my lads to run at an angle when one on one because the keeper has to readjust and that increases the chances of them getting their angles wrong.  But ultimately it's coaching them to suck eggs.  It usually comes down to composure and not allowing nerves to make you overthink.

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10 minutes ago, martplfc1 said:

I'm not sure TMS knows Michael Owen to talk to...

Because you know both Michael Owen and TMS intimately, to the extent that you can compare their social engagements and appraise the relative likelihood of them having a chat?

Or perhaps TMS was at a function where Michael Owen was, and took the opportunity to ask a question or two?

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2 hours ago, mfprez said:

I personally think spending so long on the 3D engine is a waste of time since it is going to always be limited and look unrealistic barring some great technological leap with quantum computing. Just keep it how it is and STOP.. it is a time wasting exercise because the developments aren't that great with it year on yea - for one the animations still look terrible, but the graphics themselves look a bit better. You should spend longer making the core of the game realistic, and much less time on interface.

Well that's a new one...I have good news for you.  A better 3D engine will definitely not need quantum computing.  

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I loved the original commentary-only versions of FM as much as the next man, but I'm pretty sure the match engine is the core of the game, quantum computers or no quantum computers

Judging from the preview video, better player animations to give a clearer indication of players' technical ability and better ball physics so those crosses aren't quite so perfect would be an absolutely massive improvement (and similarly the narrow, bunching defenders and to a lesser extent the poor striker reaction to 2 on 2 situations would be disappointing if they were regular features of the game)

As for one on ones, they're (i) definitely a CCC if the striker has the ball under control and enough space and angle to be able to choose between finishes and keeper-rounding options and (ii) generally converted less than half the time (probably much like relatively straightforward half-volleys with a third of the goal to aim for and the nearby defender struggling to get tight)

Edited by enigmatic

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6 hours ago, themadsheep2001 said:

Lots, CCC conversion rates, let alone shot on target rates, are not anywhere near as high as people think they are.


It depends naturally on the specific situation, but eepers don't need to be brilliant, it's just the entire pressure pretty much is on the forward. Unfortunately, on FM, the nature of motion capturing 3d animations for 3d models this naturally means that say Neuer deflecting a shot looks exactly the same as Sunday League's Keeper Of The Day doing it, but personally growing up on Commodore computers where the only visible difference between players was two possible colours of hair at best, I can make that abstraction -- which might be more difficult for somebody who's grown up in the Fifa / PES age. :-) To end this, this is from years ago, where "one one ones" were as "hot" a topic as is:

 

If you have fundamentally issues with one one one conversion in general, not merely the indeed annoying buggy ones where the wrong foot is taken to shoot, etc. it will likely never fully please you. wwfan used to be involved in research of the thing. This wasn't based on gut feeling, Fifa or TV anecdotes of Messi rounding every keeper with ease on a MOTD highlights reel, but likely actually academical stuff like this https://www.researchgate.net/publication/240641737_Estimating_the_probability_of_a_shot_resulting_in_a_goal_The_effects_of_distance_angle_and_space

It isn't unusual though that "football folk" are under misconceptions, of which you can read some about in Soccernomics et all. Whilst data aren't everything, they can and still do disprove a lot of myths, and they have entered football rather late (there is still many who are opposing it) -- unless we are counting Charles Reep et all but then one probably shouldn't. As said though I'd suspect (and hope) that SI would put their contacts to use, in particular alongside to their Prozone deal. That said, I don't think FM ever will be "fully accurate", in parts as it will never ape the detaills of individual finishing techniques of individual players, for instance. Talking about it it's already justified to be found that the game version of it, for instance the "rounds keeper to score" ppm isn't put much to use in the match action, or ultra rarely for some reason. Just seen Silver Twilight Sparkle brought it up already. :-)

Edited by Svenc

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When I'll get Steam code,? I purchase pre-order of FM 2017 on 22.09.2016 on polish shop - muve.pl. Sorry for my English.

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2 hours ago, Tomekk73 said:

When I'll get Steam code,? I purchase pre-order of FM 2017 on 22.09.2016 on polish shop - muve.pl. Sorry for my English.

Youll have to contact the retailer

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16 hours ago, KUBI said:

 

This is the answer...

I hope those 32 minutes cover features on the editor as well as it might be the decider for me to buy again after skipping 2016.

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17 hours ago, VV Bal op de Lat said:

I am really surprised to see that so many FM-gamers are a bit pessimistic about the expected FM 17 features that will be revealed.
The lack of early hyped information about the new features of FM 17 just makes me more curious and hopeful about it: we are being summoned to buying the game without knowing it's new features. I think that SI would never opt for that kind of marketing when there won't be a very decent new game, including great new features. 

I'm just really looking forward to the new game and am expecting some major improvements, just by the fact that it would be fantastic marketing for the game. It's like SI is telling me: you don't have to worry about it, just buy it. The new features will be great. 

I remember this forum yrs ago and that was pessimistic to put it lightly!  The negativity has decreased dramatically. 

SI always release a top game and no doubt this will be another 500+ rs game for me :) 

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Unless i misunderstand this tweet, the video won't cover features on the editor.

Capture.PNG

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There will be an editor. You can change things. 

There you are, no 'features video' required for that reveal. 

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24 minutes ago, Allan385 said:

Unless i misunderstand this tweet, the video won't cover features on the editor.

Capture.PNG

Too bad. Will keep an eye on the blog though.

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I want  to see new things in FM 17 before I buying. I want to know what buying. It is 8.10. 2016. and only what i saw is a one  short video. :(

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6 hours ago, martplfc1 said:

What do you need the editor to do that it doesn't do already?

Ability to add nation/continents for me definitely.

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26 minutes ago, treble_yell_:-) said:

Apologies if already answered , but are we getting the features video before the discount expires  ?

It wouldn't matter either way, as you can cancel a pre order without any loss at any time before release.

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11 minutes ago, themadsheep2001 said:

It wouldn't matter either way, as you can cancel a pre order without any loss at any time before release.

Steam still take payment at point of sale , so I'll still be out of pocket , at least for a time. I wasn't looking for a defensive answer, a simple yes , no or we don't know would have sufficed.

Edit : How does the Steam refund policy work with FM17's "Beta" phase ? In normal circumstances 2+ hrs of the game excludes you from a refund, for the purpose of the policy , does the beta count as essentially the released game ?

Edited by treble_yell_:-)

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Just now, treble_yell_:-) said:

Steam still take payment at point of sale , so I'll still be out of pocket , at least for a time. I wasn't looking for a defensive answer, a simple yes , no or we don't know would have sufficed.

It wasn't a defensive answer at all, but a factual one, but hey if you want to take that tone, you can check the thread for yourself, as it's only been mentioned half a dozen times.

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Just now, themadsheep2001 said:

It wasn't a defensive answer at all, but a factual one, but hey if you want to take that tone, you can check the thread for yourself, as it's only been mentioned half a dozen times.

Well, it wasn't the answer to the question I asked, but you know , thanks anyway I guess, top moderation  as usual.

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11 hours ago, Wolf_pd said:

Too bad. Will keep an eye on the blog though.

I always feel that the editor should get more love when marketed tbh, but at least the will be a blog, let's hope that blog gives plenty of detail on any new features.

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Just now, treble_yell_:-) said:

Well, it wasn't the answer to the question I asked, but you know , thanks anyway I guess, top moderation  as usual.

You're welcome.

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