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Neil Brock

Football Manager 2017 Release Date and Pre Purchase Details Announced

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It's another kind of (graphically) complexity and there are two different teams working on it. The priority is for the engine. (That's my guess)

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49 minutes ago, DP said:

I'm not having this discussion again. There are plenty of threads - with SI acknowledgement - about the fact that there are too many crosses (and goals relating from those chances) as well as the fact that full backs on attacking mentality are too powerful. 

It needs balancing and I'm sure it will be. 

I think you've taken the SI acknowledgement out of context a little tbh 

 

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57 minutes ago, QWERTYOP said:

Very sad if true. It'll just further S.I's belief that they can do whatever the Hell they like and still sell shedloads of copies anyway. They badly need competition. Maybe then they'd stop treating paying customers like an inconvenient, necessary evil.

This really makes no sense at all, as the loyalty scheme and the main build up aren't linked to each other (nor is the pre order even new this year) At the end of the it's the call of the individual customer to spend their money as they see fit, not anyone else's to say it's good or bad. Whether you like it or not is wholly irrelevant to the person spending, or not spending their money, and I don't think anyone gets to pass judgement on how people do or don't spend their cash.

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4 minutes ago, themadsheep2001 said:

I think you've taken the SI acknowledgement out of context a little tbh 

 

There were one or two other snippets I read where it was acknowledged there were some balancing issues with crossed goals/wide play. 

Edited by DP

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4 minutes ago, DP said:

There were one or two other snippets I read where it was acknowledged there were some balancing issues with crossed goals/wide play. 

All summed up in that post. Think it was Mingay who pointed out it was numbers were very slightly higher, but that accuracy was slightly lower, which mean numbers were right. But irrelevant now since we are looking at ME changes anyway, and whatever they might bring

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Maybe we should divide the impressions, as their are improvements made for both, the ME and the 3D animation, which are not the same.

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Really not impressed with the behind the goal cam, in fact I think I hate it but it won't matter as I'll never use it.

 

Couldn't tell much with that cam for the 2nd half but tried to look at the first half action again. 

It didn't seem massively different from FM16 gameplay if I'm honest but it was just one match and we didn't see the tactics used.

+ New kickoffs.

+ Liked the ref using the spray at freekicks.

+/- Fullbacks still seemed narrow in general but a couple of highlights they seemed wider.

- GKs still didn't seem to come for crosses enough.

- FM15 still seemed more varied in play but thats maybe a side effect of the defending getting stronger.

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Not sure if it's possible, but I would have shown a livestream game in Comprehensive, rather than Extended. Think you get a much better feel for general build up play,

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1 hour ago, themadsheep2001 said:

SI can do both. Nothing was taken out of context. It's possible to aim for improved graphics without aiming for FIFA like looks. Hope that clears everything up.

TL;DR: 1st part of his post is the important part. 2nd part not the important part. It's just stating a point by painting a picture of his thought process, possibly because of what's been chosen to reveal to the public.

It was very clear what he meant but nobody commented on that. The comments towards his post were focused on completely other things.

Where does "I would prefer Sigames and Sega to concentrate on the manager part of the game" turn into a later reply as "FIFA is a manual control game. They are quite frankly worlds apart",
in a thread about release date and pre-purchase details about FM17?
Was it just because he mentioned FIFA at the end; for then some other(-s) to reply on that unimportant part?
He pretty much said the same thing as you did in a completely different way. They are worlds apart and that's why he's expressing a worrying thought and feeling,
about the game not focusing on the manager part but the visual part. That's possibly the impression he's left with after choosing to reveal a 9 minute video of the 3D visual representation of the ME.

Surely people can post their concerns about a game they want to play, especially if they're not happy with what they've chosen to reveal?

Anyhoo. I've contributed way more than i should have into derailing this thread myself, so i won't say much more apart from one thing.
I just wish that there were at least an attempt to try to comment on the obvious parts in relevant threads, instead of commenting on what they're not saying.
It would be a much better discussion if that happened :)

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43 minutes ago, roykela said:

TL;DR: 1st part of his post is the important part. 2nd part not the important part. It's just stating a point by painting a picture of his thought process, possibly because of what's been chosen to reveal to the public.

It was very clear what he meant but nobody commented on that. The comments towards his post were focused on completely other things.

Where does "I would prefer Sigames and Sega to concentrate on the manager part of the game" turn into a later reply as "FIFA is a manual control game. They are quite frankly worlds apart",
in a thread about release date and pre-purchase details about FM17?
Was it just because he mentioned FIFA at the end; for then some other(-s) to reply on that unimportant part?
He pretty much said the same thing as you did in a completely different way. They are worlds apart and that's why he's expressing a worrying thought and feeling,
about the game not focusing on the manager part but the visual part. That's possibly the impression he's left with after choosing to reveal a 9 minute video of the 3D visual representation of the ME.

Surely people can post their concerns about a game they want to play, especially if they're not happy with what they've chosen to reveal?

Anyhoo. I've contributed way more than i should have into derailing this thread myself, so i won't say much more apart from one thing.
I just wish that there were at least an attempt to try to comment on the obvious parts in relevant threads, instead of commenting on what they're not saying.
It would be a much better discussion if that happened :)

The point where he compares it to FIFA. I'm sure Ronaldo Beckham can take it up with me if he think's I've misunderstood him, or if he needs to explain his point to me further, thanks :)

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Am I the only one that gets irritated at how big the subs benches are? Looks so silly!

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Finally we are getting closer cameras. The behind goal camera is very nice, and it also seems to automatically change sides which makes it usable. But we could have more angles, like behind the sub bench or maybe on the corner. Its like it takes a new game to have just one new camera angle. Even better, make more customizable camera angles, or ones that follow the player close for a more action view.

We need a behind the bench camera so we at least can see our manager, we can create him at the start of the game but can barely see him. Even better a first person camera from his view.

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anyone notices from the new video, 0:55 to 1:00, the passing in the middle is super weird?

 

When the midfielder pass the ball, why many players choose to header it? it's pretty weird, not just 1, but 2-3 players at the same time.

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2 hours ago, rooneyviet said:

anyone notices from the new video, 0:55 to 1:00, the passing in the middle is super weird?

 

When the midfielder pass the ball, why many players choose to header it? it's pretty weird, not just 1, but 2-3 players at the same time.

this was the old problem since fm13.

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I'm not going to comment on graphics because they don't interest me that much, but sliding is clearly still visible, and thats a little bit of problem for last few versions of the game. I like seeing some headers by players, hope that wouldn't be a problem as we had so much cross goals last year. Colors are more sharp. I liked the first touch in the Lukaku goal, although there are some weird passing examples. I don't think much will change 'till beta comes out, but I will not make my review untill I play it by myself. As for the discussion before, AI has been upgraded heavily for last few versions, but ME has failed to follow. Hope we will get more information about the game in the next few days.

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11 hours ago, Cougar2010 said:

You tube link:

 

I dropped a like on the video because seeing the amount of dislikes was shocking. 

Edited by fabioke

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What i hope this beta doesn't have having in mind the last betas. No over the top goals scored from rebounds , too many shots that hit the bar and no overpowered play from the wings and fullbacks.

Edited by andu1

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I would want a "manager's camera angle". From the actual sideline!

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On a third more detailed look, this looks pretty good. At first I didn't spot that hugely much difference in total. However the mo-cap animations look much more fluid and natural in large parts. What seems to be a problem is adjusting it all to when players pick up or slow down speeds, I think that's where the "floating/gliding" effect some mention is coming from -- maybe there's frames or specific sets of animations missing for the gradually shifts in tempo, also players turning on occasion. There's not hugely much more to say, naturally, it's a highlights reel and even if you wanted to comment on build-up much, you wouldn't know what tactics were actually applied. No doubt it'll get the remarks how this would look like a 2000 or 1990s Fifa or PES on social media, as you're just not going to compete in scope and detail with teams that dedicate an entire team to just recreating Messi's hairdo as big as what any management game has ever sported in total. But I think it's fair to respond by now they'd need to have their head (and goggles) reality-checked. Any clip to the tube should do, man these games haven't aged well, the incredibly low-poly player models being more edgy than your average Radiohead song past The BEnds, the textures that were meant to be squeezed into as much video ram as any modern mobile phone trumps, the flat lighting, even the animations, which were top of the drawer stuff back then. Would love to see what stuff look likes when the sun casts more starkly shadows and make the pitches look all juicy green.


1:16 Really nice animation of the guy/model turning/swinging all out for the cross

1:38 is that the default defensive attacking free kick instruction? Looks like just one guy covering who's immediately forced into going 1 v 2 on the Everton forward/s. Nothing comes off it, but phew (1:48!!!).

4:17 Nice floodlights

5:17 Is that Milessi sitting just behind the corner?

Generally: Is that a match played between the Collyers of Everton and Miles of Watford FC? Upload their tacticz, please!

Generally (2): No much goals off crosses???? ;-)

Not sure where to put else: Are you still recording the mo-caps at Creative Assembly's studios? Can you tell them to do an Alien: Isolation 2, please?

Edited by Svenc

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I just saw the video.

Positives:

I like the new camera angle behind the goal and you can see that the animations have been improved. The players move more realistic and the 3D rendering is much better.

Negatives:

I love seeing such content to see what is coming out. Please, consider posting this officially on this forum, so when people come over here to see what's new, we can see there is a new video released. Why do we have to hunt this down? Thank you for Cougar2010 for linking the video here. I would have missed it otherwise. Why make it so difficult for people to find stuff? Maybe it is just me but I would have missed it otherwise. If I am not the only one, isn't this a shame? You must also be proud of what you are making. Show it, and let people know when you show it.

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Looks nice enough, although I concur with the people worried that SI/SEGA are focussing on visuals too much after seeing this 3D ME-video. It is definately an improvement, but I'm not sure if this is the improvement most players are eager for. The rest of the game is ingnored for now, so what the changes in there are like is still a guessing game.

Looking at this ME I noticed some features somewhat surplus to requirements. Het refs spray foam for example seems time spent that could better be invested in other parts of the game. Led-boarding, same story (and I surely do not hope my bottom division club turns out to have that type of advertisement boarding around the pitch of its 500 capacity ground). Speaking of which. It would have been nice to show some ME in other types of stadiums. Say Swedish 2nd Division South Gotaland, Belgian 3rd League or Colombian 2nd tier. Those could use an overhaul compared to previous versions IMO. The visual part of the game is of far lesser importance than the manager-part is, but as we are investing in fluff like spray-foam and led-boarding, we might aswell invest in more realistic lower league stadiums (less British in non-British leagues to start with, and that also goes for the surroundings).

Edited by ommerson

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The match engine seems to have an improvement of graphics. They are more bright which is the plus. The are more animations, but it lacks smoothness in some parts, specially the goalkeepers. Maybe it is my eyes, but it seems to be standing in one frame and the next they flying to the side the next.

What seems to persist is the 3D is the player having the ball at their feet and they are moving in circles with the ball seemed glued to their feet. To be fair that animation exists since the first version so many years ago. It needs to be dropped URGENTLY, since it is the most unrealistic animation ever. Not even Sensible Soccer the ball wasn't that glued to the players feet.

The new camera angle is nice, but for me I would only use it for replays.

However it continues to feel underwhelming. From the beginning the graphics feel dated, the animations have been improved, but in some cases the players feel too robotic.

As for FIFA comments, I would say, please don't copy FIFA or PES, but make the animations as good as FIFA or PES, where the players move more natural and realistic. At this point in some cases Sensible Soccer animations are smoother and realistic then the current version. Specially the goalkeepers. I think SI first mistake was not to use motion capture from the beginning and now the 3D is trying to catch up.

Overall I see improvements, but It still a long way from me to abandon 2D. Probably only use 3D for the goal replays.

 

For me what would make a good promotion for the ME and it s graphics is more information. A behind the scenes with interviews with the staff and the players users to make the motion capture. Say what as improved and what is not. Say you took the opinion of costumers into consideration and try to improve the animations. Something like it was done when documentary was released. That is what other gaming companies are doing and SI should do the same. Make an actual promotion video and please no Miles in it (if we wants to be part of it, making the one who makes the questions, the interviewer. Interview the Art directors (if it has any), interview the heads of department of the teams pushing the game. Make it a youtube series. Instead of this last video, have interview with art director and have him talk the improvements of 3D animation. With a few images of actual gameplay. Something like this would be far better then what was released.

 

Now that we had the Match preview, can we, please, have the new features announcements of FM17?

Edited by grade

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Just to clarify, we've already said there will be further announcements in regards to everything else mid-October. Thanks. 

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1-2s, pull backs, arcing jumps for headers, defenders attacking balls into the box etc seems to be getting overlooked here. Even the animations are clearly better than we had in FM16.

Edited by HUNT3R
Cleared up jumps

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5 minutes ago, HUNT3R said:

1-2s, pull backs, arcing headers, defenders attacking balls into the box etc seems to be getting overlooked here. Even the animations are clearly better than we had in FM16.

Surprised the bold hasn't been mentioned much,

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Watched the video and what can I say.. hmm  

many pinballs, one example 0:36-39, then 0:54 and 0:57 why header the ball? not to mention attacking player not running 1:49 and defenders just walking around 2:07 and lastly 3:58 is a goal from cross the same way like FM 16 - 60-70% percent goals are scored.

Conclusion, I don't see many improvements in the ME apart from some animations and new camera, so bit disappointed that some unrealistic moves are not still fixed since FM 13. 

Edited by Wells

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TBH I see a decent amount of pull backs & square balls in FM16.  Will take a few matches on FM17 to notice if its changed much.

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5 minutes ago, Wells said:

Watched the video and what can I say.. hmm  

many pinballs, one example 0:36, then 0:54 and 0:57 why header the ball? not to mention attacking player not running 1:47 and defenders just walking around 2:07 and lastly 3:58 is a goal from cross the same way like FM 16 - 60-70% percent goals are scored.

Conclusion, I don't see many improvements in the ME apart from some animations and new camera, so bit disappointed that some unrealistic moves are not still fixed since FM 13. 

If you are seeing two thirds of your goals scored like that, and you don't want them to be, I really would recommend you head over to the Tactics forum to get some advice on how to change your tactical system to reduce that.

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20 minutes ago, herne79 said:

If you are seeing two thirds of your goals scored like that, and you don't want them to be, I really would recommend you head over to the Tactics forum to get some advice on how to change your tactical system to reduce that.

I wouldn't as it's not a goal, it's the defenders leaving the guy in acress of space as they're putting him succesfully off-side, not sure if that's what he complains about. :D The cam is a bit unfortunate, but actually watching that it's one of the sequences I liked too, even though on the first casual look I too was tempted to post a crosses remark (maybe that's  why I like it even more now, as if they put it deliberately in). I think that Sensible Soccer comment above, takes some pish now though. I'm a huge fan of the game to this day, it remains one of the most playable arcade games due to its brilliant simplicity, and in parts the fun of it is that you actually have to somewhat trap the ball yourself and have more immediate control over shots (albeit less so than in Kick Off), rather than just pushing a button and magically turning into Messi as in Fifa or Pes, which really are a lot more alike than their fan bases having a go at each other would ever care to admit -- but one thing I would never attribute to it was it's superior [player] animations of any kind, and that has nought to it with it being oldschool pixel 2d. :D To be honest, they were pretty basic/simplistic even when the game was released, in parts on purpose (the bright and simplistic pixel comic art style), in parts it's just 1992 tech (the few frames of hand-crafted 2d sprite animation for everything). But opinions are opinions, and the more Sensible Soccer, the better.





 

Edited by Svenc

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Checkout the YouTube likes. 186 likes and 208 dislikes. Pretty much sums it up for me. Very disappointed to say the least. Graphics look pretty much the same and animations do not seem much changed. Yep I'm well aware it is a 9 minute video, but I doubt SI will patch in hundreds more animations over the next couple weeks. Very underwhelming indeed. However, if the engine itself is patched and is a huge improvement on FM16 and FM15, I will be content. 

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Lighting still doesn't look right to me. The way players stop and trap the ball look the same. Sigh

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50 minutes ago, Preveza said:

Checkout the YouTube likes. 186 likes and 208 dislikes. 

Despite that, here is the result - record pre-sales for FM17:

 

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8 minutes ago, talhak said:

Despite that, here is the result - record pre-sales for FM17:

 

Record high or record low? ;)

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Yep, Im happy the game is selling, don't get me wrong. However, my point was that the video that was released simply was underwhelming. 

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Had a good look at the latest video.

Overall, been impressive with the 3D match engine animation.  Love to see the field being sprayed for free-kicks but why is it that on certain instances, it's not there..?  

Happy too to see the big screen at the stadium. 

However, not too impressed with how Stekelenburg parry the ball at 3:28.  To me, it does not look like a Premiership standard goalkeeping.

On top of that, i'd realise that there are too many cameraman at the back of the post.  They are immobile and have a small head. :D  If i remember correctly, there was animation for cameraman in FM2015 but not in FM2016.  Now in FM2017, it's also immobile.  Can we have mobility, please... 

 

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31 minutes ago, Allan385 said:

277766Capture.png

"Yet again". Being somewhat presumptuous there ;)

I do wonder what it would be like if there were any semblance of competition. But there isn't, so I'll be buying regardless.

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6 minutes ago, martplfc1 said:

"Yet again". Being somewhat presumptuous there ;)

I do wonder what it would be like if there were any semblance of competition. But there isn't, so I'll be buying regardless.

We've seen what happens with competition. The competition give up. The comparisons have already stood up. 

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1 hour ago, talhak said:

Despite that, here is the result - record pre-sales for FM17:

 

 

They are very lucky there is no competition in the market... Zero marketing is 1. a bad strategy 2. disrespectful for consumers 

 

Very disappointed about the video, i disliked it (one of the first time i do this on youtube). The graphics haven't changed since FM11 for FM12.

I'm not pre ordering before i know what the improvements are.

Edited by ClemB

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1 minute ago, ClemB said:

 

They are very lucky there is no competition in the market... Zero marketing is 1. a bad strategy 2. disrespectful for consumers 

 

Very disappointed about the video, i disliked it (one of the first time i do this on youtube). The graphics haven't changed since FM11 for FM12.

I'm not pre ordering before i know what the improvements are.

Zero marketing :lol: Just because you disagree and don't like how they're doing it, doesn't mean they aren't doing anything.  They clearly are.

Graphics haven't changed since FM11 or FM12 :lol: Deary me...I mean this is just absolutely and categorically incorrect, can't even hide behind the porous shield of opinion here

Disrespectful to customers :lol: I know, how dare they offer a discount they haven't ever offered before at a time where there is absolutely no obligation or reason to pre-order at all.

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10 minutes ago, themadsheep2001 said:

We've seen what happens with competition. The competition give up. The comparisons have already stood up. 

Still don't like the cockiness. SI didn't deliver greatly with FM16, given it went backwards compared to 15 imo and in many others'.

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5 minutes ago, martplfc1 said:

Still don't like the cockiness. SI didn't deliver greatly with FM16, given it went backwards compared to 15 imo and in many others'.

According to you, not everyone will feel the same way. They can only really go on sales and overall points of feedback social media wise, and sales are breaking records (FM16 still charting well). 

If it's charting better each year, hard to argue with his point. If it charts better than FM16, then he will be very much vindicated.

 

 

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Did you really delete my post? 

You could just delete the f word, or you didn't like my point of view.

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Its good that it's selling as a world without a decent management game would be less enjoyable. Still think it would be better were there some decent competition.

 

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I liked the video.

Don't think we can take many (if any) conclusions about the improvements in the ME, because it's just one video and we don't even know how both teams set up the instructions.

So, in truth, we can only talk about some new animations and improvements in the graphics.

Some good details, like the big replay screen, the spray in the free kicks and the new camera angle.

Anyway, always good to see new stuff! :)

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I'm not too fussed about the graphics. Provided the problems with the match engine have been addressed, in addition to (hopefully) some proper new features, then it will be a good game.

Lets also hope it doesn't need much tinkering from day one.

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34 minutes ago, martplfc1 said:

Still don't like the cockiness. SI didn't deliver greatly with FM16, given it went backwards compared to 15 imo and in many others'.

Who are the many others? Overall, I personally thought it was a step forward from 15, as do most the people I've spoken to (friends, family who bought the game). Its easy to get wrapped up in the general negativity of a forum.

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