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Nearly that time again 2017

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Its that time again when we all start looking forward to the new installment of the best game on the market 

So how has everyone found 2016 in general , how did you cope with the known crossing issue or did you just give up ?

 

Roll on Footy manager 2017 

 

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It was more of an issue with full backs playing like Messi creating lots of chances etc and getting really high ratings every game 

if it was not a problem for you happy days ;) 

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Don't think I'll get FM17 as I'm enjoying my FM16 game too much

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It's been good,

Had some great saves so far...I'm nearly done with it now so bring on 2017!!

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Im still on my first save I started in November last year. My last game spanned 15 game years/4 real years in FM11 which meant I missed 4 versions of the game. Assuming I dont get sacked or bored I might not buy again until FM20......

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1 hour ago, mr arsenal said:

It was more of an issue with full backs playing like Messi creating lots of chances etc and getting really high ratings every game 

if it was not a problem for you happy days ;) 

Well I honestly believe that if people read about an issue that might occur with the game then they tend to fixate on that issue. That is regardless of whether or not it actually effects their game, or not.

That's not to say there isn't an issue, but I'm sure it's never as dramatic as a lot of people believe it to be.

That's why i tend to not let match engine issue possibilities worry me. I used to do that some years back with an issue concerning corner flick ons. Now I just play the game.

I guess what I am saying is don't let it effect any decision you might make on FM17. 

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There is always one position that gets higher ratings than others.  It was wingers in one version years ago, this time it's full-backs (apparently).  I guess it depends on your tactics.  Most goals I concede are from through balls, so crossing is certainly not an issue in my game.

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wasn't there statistics that a good cross is where most of the goals come from IRL.

 

it was only ever 1-2 fullbacks that got bonkers ratings, my Highest rating players were usually Attacking midfielders, due to key passes.

I usually concede to through balls because my defenders are apparently stuck in treacle or have the strength of a baby, I get more annoyed at the silly slide tackles going to opponents and silly penalty concedes from set pieces, or other general match engine visuals that look completely stupid.

 

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Whilst some of the visuals are a little lacking others go underappreciated.

 

Just last night I saw a defender take my strikers standing foot out from under him after he had dragged the ball past him.  Another example from last night was when one of my midfielders was pulled back running onto a long ball.

 

We hear plenty of the odd looking graphics but not enough about the good bits.

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In game ratings are always going to be a bit of a dodgy area in any sports game. They're always trying to impose a subjective, opinionated element of the game through stats and numbers. Just so happens the match engine tends to favour what some fullbacks have been doing this year a little more generously. 

I think I've probably been looking forward to FM17 for quite a while, not due to anything so much wrong with 16 I just haven't had a particularly gripping save this year. 

If last year is anything to go by though, we're still 4-6 weeks away from any announcements. The available researchers thread is still offering free copies of the game to those who do research, always worth mentioning that as an added perk for anyone who might be interested in contributing to the database :p

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Man - I feel bad... I'm still on FM12 and love it!

I'm waiting until I get a new laptop and that won't be until next year. My next adventure for FM will be Fm18...if it's still going.

 

 

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48 minutes ago, anagain said:

Well I honestly believe that if people read about an issue that might occur with the game then they tend to fixate on that issue. That is regardless of whether or not it actually effects their game, or not.

That's not to say there isn't an issue, but I'm sure it's never as dramatic as a lot of people believe it to be.

That's why i tend to not let match engine issue possibilities worry me. I used to do that some years back with an issue concerning corner flick ons. Now I just play the game.

I guess what I am saying is don't let it effect any decision you might make on FM17. 

Me to i am old skool and still play in 2D lol so i would never know, its only reading on here that i discovered a possible fault at all 

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Well as my beloved (!) NUFC got relegated, unless FM17 has some really new dynamic stuff will stick with my winning NUFC on FM16 :)

 

But there again probably not, I nearly always end buying the game!

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I wait till patch 3 now, so still plenty of time left with this one.

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20 minutes ago, Kazza said:

Well as my beloved (!) NUFC got relegated, unless FM17 has some really new dynamic stuff will stick with my winning NUFC on FM16 :)

 

But there again probably not, I nearly always end buying the game!

I am tempted to start a new save and bring you back from the Championship or knowing me you might drop another division :) 

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I wasnt going to buy it but now I think I'll have too just to see how long it takes for rafa the relegater to get sacked :)

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2 hours ago, mr arsenal said:

I am tempted to start a new save and bring you back from the Championship or knowing me you might drop another division :) 

I think it may be one of the best challenges in FM17 apart from how to keep the makems up yet again with whomever oh yes joyless Moyes :)

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12 hours ago, Kazza said:

I think it may be one of the best challenges in FM17 apart from how to keep the makems up yet again with whomever oh yes joyless Moyes :)

You know there are updated data bases out there, i started my Toon career last night in the championship 

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It's been the first of the last few editions to grab back my attention like the glory days of 11/12; 170 odd hours and a couple of saves under the belt. It's hard to put my finger on exactly what's more enjoyable than the previous versions, I think it's a culmination of the thousands of small changes the game has made.  I'm even liking the blocks on the squad tactics screen, which I thought would wind me up when the previews came out.  

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16 minutes ago, Ugeine said:

It's been the first of the last few editions to grab back my attention like the glory days of 11/12; 170 odd hours and a couple of saves under the belt. It's hard to put my finger on exactly what's more enjoyable than the previous versions, I think it's a culmination of the thousands of small changes the game has made.  I'm even liking the blocks on the squad tactics screen, which I thought would wind me up when the previews came out.  

12 has always been my number one but i have to admit this one has been excellent 

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Waiting for FM 2017 but i hope they spent less time on cosmetic addons and more on ME and core gameplay.

 

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3 hours ago, mr arsenal said:

You know there are updated data bases out there, i started my Toon career last night in the championship 

Cheers will look for them and try them out - thanks

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5 hours ago, mr arsenal said:

You know there are updated data bases out there, i started my Toon career last night in the championship 

HI I have downloaded the database. However, unlike FM17where you would expect a tweaking of expectations of certain players to reflect the current situation, I am in the midst of having to deal with multi bids for all my ex-premier players, unlike the current situation. Keep getting offer after offer and the players as you would expect want to go. But will keep trying to see who I can keep before the season starts.

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14 minutes ago, Kazza said:

HI I have downloaded the database. However, unlike FM17where you would expect a tweaking of expectations of certain players to reflect the current situation, I am in the midst of having to deal with multi bids for all my ex-premier players, unlike the current situation. Keep getting offer after offer and the players as you would expect want to go. But will keep trying to see who I can keep before the season starts.

There may be others who have done more work to try and reflect how they feel players should be in light of their full seasons. Official data always gets the added benefit of being a part of the huge testing processes SI employ though, but you might find some who have done a decent job in the interim.

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Haven't poured anywhere near as much time into 16 as i wanted. Will continue to crack on with my saves as much as i can, but will buy 17 pretty early on and plan to crack a lot of time into it.

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3 hours ago, Kazza said:

HI I have downloaded the database. However, unlike FM17where you would expect a tweaking of expectations of certain players to reflect the current situation, I am in the midst of having to deal with multi bids for all my ex-premier players, unlike the current situation. Keep getting offer after offer and the players as you would expect want to go. But will keep trying to see who I can keep before the season starts.

https://www.facebook.com/LFCMarshallTransferUpdate/?fref=ts

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I have no idea why but I got really bored of FM16 really quickly....so looking forward to FM17 a great deal.

FM16 felt pretty good when I first started playing it...not sure why I got bored.

Maybe I'm getting too old? I just turned 39 and I've played every game of the series (including champ man)...have I come to the end this journey?

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16 minutes ago, tlm_77 said:

I have no idea why but I got really bored of FM16 really quickly....so looking forward to FM17 a great deal.

FM16 felt pretty good when I first started playing it...not sure why I got bored.

Maybe I'm getting too old? I just turned 39 and I've played every game of the series (including champ man)...have I come to the end this journey?

I am 64 and still play nearly every iteration of the game. Your never too old!!!

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I would love the rest of South America added to the game 'officially'.

I appreciate it wont because of the editor and I also appreciate all those who edit the game files to give the option to play in those leagues, however I like official stuff... its an OCD :(

So SI, please cater to my OCD :D

 

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Never really got into FM16 (did win the Welsh Cup with Bangor City though after failing miserably in Singapore and Hong Kong,. :thup: ). Partly because my laptop started acting wonky, and partly because I kept getting sucked back into Crusader Kings 2.

Might give it another go and wait to get FM17 until it goes on sale on Steam.

 

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I ditched 16 pretty quickly after learning about the stadium expansion bug. It makes LLM saves unplayable.

 

Went back to 15 and have a decent save going, so I'll wait until April/May to see what the finished product is like. Doubt I'll buy it though. Unless it's a fiver and it actually works.

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Guest

There's a lot of really good stuff in FM2016, the patterns of play, the steps to make the UI more user-friendly and prevent you from picking contrary TIs, etc.  But tactics-wise, the biggest issue I've found is consistency.  I must've played nearly 40 seasons now with several different clubs and the only time I came close to having a consistent tactic was when I'd built up a squad with Liverpool that had amazing players in every position.  Also feels like defensive mentalities are a little too overpowered and the balance across all mentalities could do with some tweaking.  It's so frustrating to watch a team with players a hundred times worse than yours just casually stroking the ball around without a care in the world before finishing chances that their attributes suggest shouldn't be possible.

But the one thing I really want to see in FM2017 is more feedback from the game as to why things are happening.  Why is my goalie kicking it long when every single TI means he shouldn't?  What's actually happening when players just ghost through defenders, what's the ME trying to represent here?  Why are players with low anticipation getting to loose balls quicker than others who are nearer?  Just random stuff like that which happens often but you dunno why.  Is it tactics?  Is it hidden attributes?  Morale?  Condition?  Who knows.

EDIT:  Here's what I'm talking about with consistency.  I started a new save as Maidenhead, got a tactic going that made sense to me and seemed to be working great at the start of the season when suddenly, seemingly out of nowhere, I get absolutely battered by someone.  And nearly every goal was from some sort of defensive catastrophe.  Why did it happen?  No idea, the tactic was going great guns and then all of a sudden everything fell apart.  No info from the game as to why this happened, my players missed easy chances, the opposition scored goals that were making me tear my hair out.  Then the following games the pattern repeated itself with me desperately tweaking the tactic to try and find out what was going wrong.  Then I drew a million games in a row.  I've played every single version of CM/FM since the series started (apart from FM2015), and this is the only one where I just cannot get any sort of consistency going.
 

wat.png

Edited by Guest

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You probably need to adjust your own perceptions a little, a run of 8 competitive matches without defeat is impressive but it's far from an indicator that your in fro a successful season & with constant improvements to how AI managers interact with the tactical interface it will become increasingly more difficult to nail a tactic that works in all situations which based on "with me desperately tweaking the tactic to try and find out what was going wrong"  suggests that you may still have a mindset of finding a perfect FMxx tactic which is a hangover over from the old slider based tactical interface which was scrapped from FM14.

Looking at your results I would guess that you were winning early matches that could have gone the other way or you didn't factor in whether the opposition were match sharp when reflecting on how you won the matches, this short run of positive results built up confidence that resulted in a couple of very convincing wins before losing heavily (something that can easily happen in the lower leagues) which you reacted badly to post match to the extent that you may have cut the players confidence from under them & then you lost confidence in you own tactical system too quickly when the next match didn't go your way.

Out of interest what highlight option do you use when watching matches & how much time do  you spend analysing a match after the final whistle? 

 

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I watch on extended as a default but if the opposition have two chances in a row I switch to full to try and work out what the problem is.  With post-match team talks I very rarely get any red and I'm pretty good at using team meetings to keep confidence up, I don't think morale has been an issue (which I learned from that 3 match losing streak at the start where I picked the wrong team talk response and everyone was devastated).  I make a point of sticking with a tactical system for as long as I possibly can because I'm super wary of falling into the trap of constantly changing formations and mentalities, I'll give the tactic I've chosen every chance to succeed.

I've re-watched the goals from that 5-1 loss to Whitehawk:

1st goal - 2 minute cross to striker who converts despite being surrounded by 3 defenders.
2nd goal - Deep cross to striker, completely unmarked
3rd goal - Defender in acres of space mistimes the ball and jumps too early, striker rounds keeper
4th goal - Deep cross hits defender running the wrong way, keeper saves, other defender gets to ball first, passes it 1 yard square to striker who scores in an open goal
5th goal - Penalty

All 5 goals are basically just absolutely woeful defending (save for the penalty where I probably switched to get stuck in and paid the price).  There was nothing in the 8 matches prior to suggest that this sort of defensive collapse was on its way, hell I had two clean sheets in the previous matches and only gave away 4 shots on target in both.

I've recently given up on the current tactic and have switched to a more basic 442 and first match I was 4-0 up but then for some reason both my centre halves misjudged the flight of the ball to let strikers clean through, which I guess is down to concentration?  I dunno, it's not obvious because the game isn't giving me any feedback.

Second match I wasn't getting anywhere with the tactic so switched from counter to control and then suddenly it all changed and I created loads of chances and went 1-0 up.  Did what makes sense to me football-wise and switched to defensive and retain possession as there was only 15 minutes left and instantly conceded from a cross, at most a minute after my change.  Then let another one in right at the end.  Should I have stuck with control?  Sometimes that works, sometimes that doesn't.  Sometimes being more attacking when you're leading means you'll hold on to that lead, sometimes being defensive works.  But why is that?  Is that your mentality, the opposition mentality, team talks, condition, attributes?  It's not obvious.

Er.. this has turned into a bit of a rant.  Anyway, the crux of the issue for me is that in all my years of playing this game, this is the first version where there seems to be so much... randomness to it.  I switched to work ball into box recently and then scored from a couple of crosses.  I have it on short passing and my defenders just boot it up the pitch.  I find this game really enjoyable when your tactic is doing exactly what you hoped it would and everything makes sense, but then also massively frustrating when it just suddenly doesn't.  And I just dunno why.

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If anything the level of randomness is reducing over time. I do get your point about sometimes not having enough information to make a judgement on what has happened on the pitch when not watching the full match but that's not going to be fixed until FM reaches the point where it can provide visually accurate representation of bodily language & facial expression so all we have are the various match widgets & our own experience to fill in those blanks,  you seem to have a reasonable grasp of the level of considered thought required as you've identified a possible cause of low concentration in your recent match for your defenders messing up & I imagine you just need to broaden that way of thinking to consider why players are playing out your tactical instructions in exactly the manner you've asked which for me is key to the challenge because I do feel that FM is a game which rewards taking the time to think things through & even with all the extra layers that have been added over the years the answers still tend to be simple & obvious, not saying you fall into this group but for those who want the old school style of buy/sell players, find perfect tactic, continue & win then imho FM & to a lesser extent FMT are not the games they want.

The one spanner in the works with FM16 is that the key ME exploit in this version is one that plays almost perfectly into the AI approach to match tactics so whereas in the past we, the user, tended to be the only beneficiary of any ME exploits now we're faced with AI managers who are also in a position to benefit from those flaws/exploits. For some that creates a challenged, for others it can be game-breaking & there will be others who feel it is unfair although personally I'd expect that they could well be the same people who'd mercilessly take advantage of any exploits to beat the game 

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Without tweaking some, defensive mentalities naturally push hugely off (deep line). But I find it reasonably easy with a good side to hold onto leads by keeping players a little deeper going defensive and recycling the ball, you'll see it in the goal spreads what I did do in this save after taking leads. :D This was as basic as they come on full speed never obsessing about a thing, setting up a reasonably attacking setup and one then to hold onto leads, just switching. Naturally with merely average teams every week will and should be a tighter contest. Also on lower leagues you should see much more errors eventually settling ties and worse pitches may make it some harder to retain as well.

 

CmI0CX8.jpg

 

I would never get carried away by a random match, one-off anything freaky could happen, I conceded 3 dfks on another save in a single match which was lower league actually, and how about own goals and actually bugs. Additionally if you have already shipped some, things can totally fall apart as own players mostly react badly outside the super determined (actually had de Jong getting pushed at 1-4), and the opponent growing in confidence. This must have been the only match during that run where at all we conceded late, clearly an AI on the attack, so every time your team drops the ball they'll have a go and stretch you some.

wdX1PPa.jpg

Previously, easy to defend, none of the full backs on aggressive duty to stretch, plus obviously keeping things narrow.

JQtYFtt.jpg

AI play more attackingly or defensively, think of the 4-2-4 in older iterations you can sniff from miles away considered  a "comeback bug" by some. There's not meant to be a right or wrong approach but sitting all deep and dropping off will naturally invite pressure into your half when an opponent is on the attack. On the formation widget we have by now we can see whether things change (attack duty players typically push some up, as the right hand central midfielder in this widgets). Personally actually wish the thing was a tad more sophisticated, as arguably the AI does still weird stuff that was sorted by totally entry level guides years ago such as isolating attacking players sometimes. On topic, FM 2017 should get rid off the assistant in-match advice arguably entirelly, it's all about stats and nothing else. Maybe they can keep that in, but make it apparent that it is just that, such as the guy pointing out stuff that sticks out, i.e. passing percentage drops below x, here, take a look. Whether that is an issue then is for you to decide. If FM's ass men would have assisted Rainieri last season he would have had quite some busy schedule. :D

 

Quote

The one spanner in the works with FM16 is that the key ME exploit in this version is one that plays almost perfectly into the AI approach to match tactics

Wasn't aware of that but suspected this would lead to weird dynamics it as typically you'll have it pushing wide areas late in a match, so hopefully this will get fixed. It isn't set to exploit as such, though, wasn't even back then with the set piece stuff from which you could get centre backs making tons of goals and deciding tons of additionally tight matches in your favor every season. Even if you never carved anybody open, in comes the corner, kaboom.

Edited by Svenc

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By the end of it, I was still enjoying FM15 a lot more at this time last year.  I think the tactical possibilities of the FM16 match engine are more limited than in years past (particularly FM14), and especially so for the AI managers.  It's also always my goal to build the best possible academy that I can with my teams, and I really don't like the squad personality system.  No manager is going to sign crap players just for their personality (I mean actual players, not tutors).  There are far too many balanced and non-professional personalities in the game for the squad personality system to work well.  

Edited by Analog

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I'm certainly looking forward to a match engine that does not overly reward one style of play over every other style. FM14 definitely had that feel so hopefully Paul C & his team have got to grips with the defensive issues that were present in FM15 & 16.

My fingers are also crossed that after two versions worth of feedback & on my part hundreds of example saves the interaction & player happiness module will show a significant level of improvement.

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I am hopeful for FM17. I didn't care for 16 and instead continued to enjoy 15, but I am eager for a data update.

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4 hours ago, Barside said:

I'm certainly looking forward to a match engine that does not overly reward one style of play over every other style. 

This, most definitely.

It's a common chunter on here that the new features are gimmicky froth, more attention should be made to the flaws that remain from previous editions etc etc. There's a lot to like about FM16, but each time I play it I encounter a serious flaw which really frustrates me. I won't list them all because that wouldn't be very helpful at this stage, but not all of them are ME related. If just some of these flaws can be fixed, FM17 won't need any new features. In fact, I'd settle for the same thing, just minus the shooting from the byline.

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I hope that press conferences, the options are expanded. Instead of the usual 5 options to choose from. I hope they add an extra one, that they can call the Trump response. :p 

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I think this is my most disliked version as far as tactics and players complaining about first team football.

There are still ongoing problems which doesn't make it remarkable, just unremarkable. There is still the invisible wall of treakle, players running away from the ball, centre midfield is still irrelevant (all action takes place at either ends of the pitch, there is never a midfield battle), positioning/bpo is terrible, players still chase the ball creating unbalanced and crazy defence.

I am looking forward to 17

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1 hour ago, grade said:

I hope that press conferences, the options are expanded. Instead of the usual 5 options to choose from. I hope they add an extra one, that they can call the Trump response. :p 

I want "Popovich" tone. :D (which I guess would be "sarcastic")

 

"Tortorella" tone would be good too. But I suppose "Aggressive" takes care of that.

 

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22 hours ago, Barside said:

I'm certainly looking forward to a match engine that does not overly reward one style of play over every other style. FM14 definitely had that feel so hopefully Paul C & his team have got to grips with the defensive issues that were present in FM15 & 16.

My fingers are also crossed that after two versions worth of feedback & on my part hundreds of example saves the interaction & player happiness module will show a significant level of improvement.


What was the "big" targeted change in between 14 & 15 anyway? Part of the problem is, first and foremost FM creates a world that is self-sustainable and in which you may participate in if you want to. If you don't fine, it runs on its own and is supposed to operate how football would roughly. So within the parameters of AI teams, lots of stuff just wouldn't crop up. No AI manager would take the worst team in a league and apply a formation that overloads the final third with players and play a high line high risk attacking game 90 minutes. Yet if you did that on 2015, maybe not for all teams on every run, but with a bit of luck and a good run whilst individual results could be all over the shop from heavy beating to great wins (a randomness that could be interpreted as a strength given the scenario mind), you were not totally unlikely to compete for Europe, rather than having a relegation fight if you played what a manager oft may do in real football (or the AI managing instead). On 2016 you're still more likely to get heavily burned for exposing poor defenders. Best addition in recent years, though SI seemed to have forgotten to tell the top dogs that they should watch out for heavy through balls exposure in the process too. This can't be all created around tweaks to the match play, it needs to take into account what managers may be doing too, including AI. Eventually that has a heavy bearing on what is going to transpire, naturally.  If you can convert every 6th overall attempts made for months if given some space, which looks similar to counter attacking sides of past, i.e. Villa a couple of more successfully seasons ago, finishing can't be all that horrible, same as overall decision making, and tweaks on that front would also go two ways.


Arguably there's a couple of formations that AI should react to either way, such as the 4-2-3-1 narrow overloading the centre of the pitch (personal nemesis of mine but also very effective against no DM formations in particular), so things appear tough. If you stay within those parameters, outside of the more obvious bugs everything can be quite fantastic, if you obsess and throw stuff, on occasion it doesn't even have to be wild, it can lead to very odd things, such as the channels a couple years available against like 90% of AI employing four at the back for three central forwards to flourish in. What looked a semi regular attacking formation could not be defended. I think it's quite a way to go though still, technical attributes in particular still don't seem weighted all that heavily in the success of very basic things, such as passes (based on extreme editor experiments). They could really stress test defending, like what happens if you field multiple false 9ish types dragging defenders everywhere or employ formations that inherently overload (yet still are used by AI too). Set up a side with 7 players always making forward runs for 90 minutes of the entire season and see how they cope. Problem is, if it's tweaked on those accounts, most of the AI setups may struggle to score at all anymore, sigh. Maybe they should go the route Total Club Manager did on its first couple iterations, no matter how you set up, both teams would always load up as 4-4-2 into the Fifa engine taken, and similar to PES Management or LMA or whatever was around back in the day nothing you clicked had much bearing on the style of play that would transpire. ;) Balancing problem solved -- game over.

Edited by Svenc

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Tactics which just throw players forward and overload AI have always been a problem for every ME we've had.

Svenc usually refers to download section(s) here and forums like fm-base where people wanting super tactics congregate, but I've seen many people in other places (forums, blogs, YT) making unbalanced, overloading tactics without ever wanting to exploit the ME per se. They think they've just created an attacking tactic which produces expected results, but in fact they only work because mindlessly overload the AI works, too.

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