JobyKing Posted July 25, 2016 Share Posted July 25, 2016 Hello all, I've spent more time than I care to admit over the decade playing every incarnation of Football Manager since 2007. In that time I've sacrificed good grades, money and a proper social life in order to pursue virtual glory. Don't get me wrong, I don't regret a single moment of it, I still dream at night about my Cystal Palace team of '09, 3-time Champions League winners. It's quite simply the best sports simulation series out there. However this year is by far the most frustrating experience I've had with the game, 99% of it is great still, but I can't get over the lack of realism in tactics and player ratings this year. All it takes to dominate is a decent right back, that's literally it, there's only so much I can take of Hector Bellerin winning 20 man of the match awards a season. I've simulated 20 Premier League seasons in full detail just to make sure I wasn't going mad(der) and that this was actually a big problem. In EVERY single season, at least 2 of the 3 players with the highest ratings were right-backs. For a game where so much of the enjoyment derived from it, at least for me, comes from the sheer realism, this is enough of a detachment from reality to prevent me from fully immersing myself into a save this year, try as I might. With every update, I prayed that it would be fixed, and that I could finally get into it, but alas, Bellerin and Zabaleta are still the love children of Maradona and Pele respectively and the majority of goals are still scored from crosses originating on the right wing. I really wish it didn't ruin the whole experience for me as much as it did, because the rest of the game is still so good and so realistic. The transfer system, the improvements to staff movements throughout the game, it's all flawless, and I'm probably being pedantic as hell nit-picking over this minute detail, but please SI, I beg of you, fix this for next year. Deliver Football Manager 2016 with realistic ratings and goal types in November and I will be a happy man. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DP Posted July 25, 2016 Share Posted July 25, 2016 People need to stop saying this. It is nowhere near perfect and there are parts of the game that need constant work/overhauls. Large parts of the match engine not working as they should and your point is a very visual representation of a wider ME issue. I've been playing since CM2 and I think it may be that people's expectations are higher now - but let's not presume it's nearly perfect. Sorry. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TAV2 Posted July 25, 2016 Share Posted July 25, 2016 People need to stop saying this. It is nowhere near perfect and there are parts of the game that need constant work/overhauls. Large parts of the match engine not working as they should and your point is a very visual representation of a wider ME issue. I've been playing since CM2 and I think it may be that people's expectations are higher now - but let's not presume it's nearly perfect. Sorry. You never even read the OP Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DP Posted July 25, 2016 Share Posted July 25, 2016 You never even read the OP Erm, did you even read my post? Note the part about the match engine being an underlying cause of the point he refers to :/ Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TAV2 Posted July 25, 2016 Share Posted July 25, 2016 Erm, did you even read my post? Note the part about the match engine being an underlying cause of the point he refers to :/ Read the OP again mate Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DP Posted July 25, 2016 Share Posted July 25, 2016 Read the OP again mate Yeah and I'm disagreeing with the statement that 99% of the game is great. It isn't, unfortunately. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 25, 2016 Share Posted July 25, 2016 I'm sure SI would love the game to be 99% perfect, I know I would have when I worked there. I'd also say that based in the content the OP was being a little sarcastic with their title. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TAV2 Posted July 25, 2016 Share Posted July 25, 2016 Yeah and I'm disagreeing with the statement that 99% of the game is great. It isn't, unfortunately. Again READ the OP, not just the title Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
forameuss Posted July 26, 2016 Share Posted July 26, 2016 People need to stop saying this. It is nowhere near perfect and there are parts of the game that need constant work/overhauls. Large parts of the match engine not working as they should and your point is a very visual representation of a wider ME issue. I've been playing since CM2 and I think it may be that people's expectations are higher now - but let's not presume it's nearly perfect. Sorry. Yeah, why bother with personal opinions or anything? We should all totally just "stop saying this" and agree with you If in someone's eyes the game is almost perfect, who are you to say that they should stop saying it? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DP Posted July 26, 2016 Share Posted July 26, 2016 Why bother with debate then? The game clearly isn't 99% perfect and SI agree with this. It's constant evolution. It does frustrate me when people genuinely feel there are levels of perfection in systems that still need a lot of rework. Frustratingly, and in my opinion, this years has been the most disappointing in years in terms of the residual issues left after patch 3. Saying it's nearly perfect doesn't help anyone as there's work to do to make it better. I want 17 to be a huge leap forward - not a game where 1% is worked on as that won't cut it for me. Edit: and I've been on these forums long enough to not argue with people like you that offer zero value other than continually praising an already very successful game. You're the most bias poster I've observed here in 15 years. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
forameuss Posted July 26, 2016 Share Posted July 26, 2016 Why bother with debate then? You literally just said that people should stop expressing their opinion on what they think of the game, if they believe it is near perfect. The very definition of stopping debate. The game clearly isn't 99% perfect and SI agree with this. It's constant evolution. It does frustrate me when people genuinely feel there are levels of perfection in systems that still need a lot of rework. Frustratingly, and in my opinion, this years has been the most disappointing in years in terms of the residual issues left after patch 3. Saying it's nearly perfect doesn't help anyone as there's work to do to make it better. I want 17 to be a huge leap forward - not a game where 1% is worked on as that won't cut it for me. From SI's perspective it never will be perfect. They have their own views that will be wildly different to probably every user, and they'll take the game in that direction regardless. If a user gives his feedback, saying that he believes the game to be near perfect apart from a few issues - as the OP did - then what's wrong with that? Do you really think SI are going to see that post and go "Oh brilliant, this guy says it's near perfect...pub?". It's feedback. Feedback that the OP is absolutely allowed to express without someone coming in and telling them that they should stop saying it. For the record, compared to previous versions I'd say FM16 is almost there. I'd even say it was near perfect for me. There are points I hope they develop on, much the same (although different points) as the OP. But I guess I'm just wrong for enjoying a single player game in my own time. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
James_Fraser Posted July 26, 2016 Share Posted July 26, 2016 SI wouldn't release a perfect game even if they knew they could otherwise people wouldn't bother buying the next years edition of the game. Not to mention they're not a large organisation like ea so they don't have the man power to cover every bug or issue people have. The idea is to work on a small segment of the game each year and develop new features. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrPompey Posted July 26, 2016 Share Posted July 26, 2016 There are multiple facets to FM16. Some are good, some are woeful. I think what most people would favour being the nearest to perfect would be the match engine, including match tactics, and graphical representation of the ME on the screen. There are many opportunities for improvements in many areas such as interaction, press conferences etc HOWEVER.....the only way to get improvement is by describing what elements you think are wrong in some detail and what the desired position is. Simply saying something is wrong with no detail helps no-one In terms of player stats how many posts have you made in the appropriate club data thread about specific player ratings? If you want a better game then you have to be part of the solution and contribute to change in a positive way else change will never happen Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DP Posted July 26, 2016 Share Posted July 26, 2016 I think one of the bigger problems is the match engine and i totally get its very, very complex. But then I get frustrated when I see regression. A few things that frustrate me and actually lead to me not playing this years version for the first time since 1993: 1. Too many crossed goals 2. Overpowered full backs 3. Too many similar goals being scored 4. Rare MoM for goalkeepers 5. A feeling that position dictates match ratings more than the ability of the player 6. Impossible to see a goalkeeper get sent off. No goalkeeper collision detection in the code 7. Still too many one on ones missed (though it's improved) 8. Games that feature a large scoreline for the winning team always seems to see an early goal by that side. Rather than what you see at times in real life when teams can struggle to get the initial breakthrough. None of this is new to SI and at various times they've said they are working on improving parts of the above but this years ME just seemed to frustrate me more in terms of the visibility of all this. Another factor was the decision to not change the ME at patch 3 and historically that has always meant for a much more settled game. Again, I'm sure there were valid reasons. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
YKW Posted July 26, 2016 Share Posted July 26, 2016 Yeah, why bother with personal opinions or anything? We should all totally just "stop saying this" and agree with you If in someone's eyes the game is almost perfect, who are you to say that they should stop saying it? I like this attitude, nice one forameuss. I just hope you apply this line of reasoning consistently Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
forameuss Posted July 26, 2016 Share Posted July 26, 2016 I like this attitude, nice one forameuss.I just hope you apply this line of reasoning consistently As I always do. People are perfectly ok to give their opinions, but shouldn't be surprised if people take issue with them. Without being told that they should stop saying said opinions, of course. Debate is gone from this board anyway, unfortunately. How many threads do we get where we take a subject and get to maturely debate its merits without it devolving into farce? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MBarbaric Posted July 26, 2016 Share Posted July 26, 2016 have to say i agree with OP. As i get near 40 i've played this game longer than with myself by now and this year i completely stopped. partly because i've managed a real team in meanwhile and can see all the things game lacks, but for the most part, because the game lost the illusion it had. proper defending simply doesn't exist in the game. i can't even begin to understand how difficult it must be to implement proper defending into a computer game. actually, it might be easy to make a code tell a player where to stand to defend properly, however that would be completely unrealistic. what is really hard is to make it work while not being perfect and still feel realistic. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ceching You Out Posted July 27, 2016 Share Posted July 27, 2016 On 7/26/2016 at 11:05, forameuss said: :thup: I like this attitude, nice one forameuss. I just hope you apply this line of reasoning consistently ;) As I always do. People are perfectly ok to give their opinions, but shouldn't be surprised if people take issue with them. Without being told that they should stop saying said opinions, of course. Debate is gone from this board anyway, unfortunately. How many threads do we get where we take a subject and get to maturely debate its merits without it devolving into farce? All of them, you dummy. Also, stop sharing your opinions if I don't agree with them. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
FrazT Posted July 27, 2016 Share Posted July 27, 2016 Ok- lets stick to the topic and cut out the bickering please Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shenmue-X Posted July 27, 2016 Share Posted July 27, 2016 Can someone confirm the OP's statement? Hard to believe SI didn't spot on if it's true. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
FrazT Posted July 28, 2016 Share Posted July 28, 2016 SI are well aware of the reports about the effectiveness of wingers in certain formations and have said it will be be reviewed for FM 17. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ceching You Out Posted July 28, 2016 Share Posted July 28, 2016 3 hours ago, FrazT said: Ok- lets stick to the topic and cut out the bickering please FWIW, my comment to forameuss is entirely tongue in cheek. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
FrazT Posted July 28, 2016 Share Posted July 28, 2016 My comment was not directed at any one user, but as a general warning Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
fmfan74 Posted July 28, 2016 Share Posted July 28, 2016 The game is great no mistake about that. The problems will always be around and so will fixes. The one most important part of the game where I am not happy with given all other shadow problems is the way the opposition runs back at you when you have a break whilst running to the keeper. It's been accepted as an issue by SI and when the fix will come out I don't know. I'm sure though given the bugs in the current version won't go unnoticed thats for sure and probably will be hopefully fixed come new versions, maybe not next as history dictates. It's fair to say the game has grown and so has the player base. The question is has the support team grown and the coders behind to handle requests. Does the company need to introduce a new patch system to allow fixes being pumped out every week like other games have ? The game is a monster now and the demands and pressure are growing. How will this affect SI no one knows yet and it could if they don't do something about it. Last thing i want to see is the game being given bad ratings because of fixes and bugs not being dealt with like other games and in the end reduces the life span of the product. The developers did say they don't have the budget like other games and it's the best they can do given the budget. Maybe it's time to move on and find a company that does give them a budget and flourish the game even beyond our imagination. This product does need investment into it, it's worth it thats for sure. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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