Jump to content
Sports Interactive Community
Vladel

Sacked after board takeover

Recommended Posts

Ok i've gone through 3/4 of my first season with villa because that's the team i wanted to play and it has been damn hard and all of a sudden after a takeover i'm sacked??? So i just spent three days for what? just so you can excercise a sily mechanism which in this case makes no bloody sense? I'm bloody furious!!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Add new manager to Aston Villa and retire your old one if you're that bothered. It happens in real life so it's right that it's in the game

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Ok i've gone through 3/4 of my first season with villa because that's the team i wanted to play and it has been damn hard and all of a sudden after a takeover i'm sacked??? So i just spent three days for what? just so you can excercise a sily mechanism which in this case makes no bloody sense? I'm bloody furious!!

There are plenty of takeovers in real life that result in a new manager being bought in. This is especially true if you are inexperienced, poorly qualified and/or not performing particularly well. I don't see how it's silly - it happens.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Ok i've gone through 3/4 of my first season with villa because that's the team i wanted to play and it has been damn hard and all of a sudden after a takeover i'm sacked??? So i just spent three days for what? just so you can excercise a sily mechanism which in this case makes no bloody sense? I'm bloody furious!!

These are often because the new board wants a more experienced/successful/higher rep manager. It's (sacking the existing manager) also something that very rarely happens. What rep did you start with out of interest?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Check this link mate towards the bottom. I like you started a Villa save, finished 6th first season, untouchable job status etc..... two failed takeovers. I ended up quitting the save couldnt get into it or be bothered wasting my time rebuilding the squad for the 2nd season in case this happened like it did with the guy in the thread below. I always start my saves with Sunday league experience so im pretty sure the inevitable would of happened. Now i look to manage clubs with Chairman status ''Will never leave club of his own volition'' gives you some time without the added interference of possibly getting the sack for achieving/over achieving.

http://community.sigames.com/showthread.php/439310-FM16-Aston-Villa-F-C-Rear-garde-action-and-scoring-goals-Nothing-major-then/page2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Check this link mate towards the bottom. I like you started a Villa save, finished 6th first season, untouchable job status etc..... two failed takeovers. I ended up quitting the save couldnt get into it or be bothered wasting my time rebuilding the squad for the 2nd season in case this happened like it did with the guy in the thread below. I always start my saves with Sunday league experience so im pretty sure the inevitable would of happened. Now i look to manage clubs with Chairman status ''Will never leave club of his own volition'' gives you some time without the added interference of possibly getting the sack for achieving/over achieving.

http://community.sigames.com/showthread.php/439310-FM16-Aston-Villa-F-C-Rear-garde-action-and-scoring-goals-Nothing-major-then/page2

Or you could just not start with such a low experience at one of the top 30 richest clubs in world football? FM is a simulation - if you give it a ridiculous input, you're a lot more likely to get an output that seldom happens in real life. It's not at all surprising that upon a business being taken over, especially if it's underperforming, the first way the new owners might look for improvement is by changing the extraordinarily underqualified senior manager who inexplicably got given the job by the last chairman.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Or you could just not start with such a low experience at one of the top 30 richest clubs in world football? FM is a simulation - if you give it a ridiculous output, you're a lot more likely to get an output that seldom happens in real life. It's not at all surprisingly that upon a business being taken over, especially if it's underperforming, the first way the new owners might look for improvement is by changing the extraordinarily underqualified senior manager who inexplicably got given the job by the last chairman.

This. Well put. By all means; If you want to play the game this way, then go for it - just don't be too surprised if you're then quicker to getting the sack if things go sour, or like in this case, when you get a new owner/board.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Good two posts above i hear what your saying. I have never had this problem in previous FM games, I have always started with no coaching badges and sunday league experience and have never been sacked after a takeover managing a big club. I am seeing it more and more on this version though, so has something changed in the game dynamics for low reputation managers managing big clubs getting the sack after a takeover despite achieving.

OP what was your manager experience and coaching badges? position in the league of sacking? squad harmony? finances?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest

They made it an achievement on steam, surviving a board takeover, so maybe thats why.

I had a board takeover I survived early in my save, I was worried especially cos my form went downhill a bit while they decided my future, 2 or 3 year save potentially ruined because of this, but I survived it. Luckily I was over achieving which I think is why I kept my job. I'd have been fuming if I had lost 3 season the time it took to do it.

It is realistic, but this is a game and it is gamebreaking to be thrown out of your save by this if its not at all in your control. I would say if it doesnt, it might do, but you should be given a little time to prove you are the right man. People want to manage their favourite clubs, they want to start of at the bottom, and build a reputation, and that is what this game is suppose to allow you to do.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Ok i've gone through 3/4 of my first season with villa because that's the team i wanted to play and it has been damn hard and all of a sudden after a takeover i'm sacked??? So i just spent three days for what? just so you can excercise a sily mechanism which in this case makes no bloody sense? I'm bloody furious!!

You'll have to bite your tongue and get over it, you could use it as a motive in your save to show them what your really made of. Let's say a personal vendetta....

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Board takeovers are bit of a lottery though. I won the title with West Ham first season with an automatic reputation and saved the game at the end of that first season. Have played a second season a few times buying different players etc and every time at the end of the first season David Gold retires, which I find a tad odd considering West Ham go to the Olympic Stadium after a game year. Anyway on one save David Sullivan stayed on so I was fine. Another save I just had a change of Chairman because both Gold and Sullivan left. The next save both G and S went again and I had a board takeover and was sacked because the new Chairman wanted to bring his own man in, despite obviously me winning the title and qualifying for the Champions League. I certainly would have hoped for a player and fan revolt but instead just threw a hissy fit and reloaded the save at the end of the first season and again had a board takeover but this time kept my job. So as I say a bit of a lottery and the same thing doesn't happen every time.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Board takeovers are bit of a lottery though. I won the title with West Ham first season with an automatic reputation and saved the game at the end of that first season. Have played a second season a few times buying different players etc and every time at the end of the first season David Gold retires, which I find a tad odd considering West Ham go to the Olympic Stadium after a game year. Anyway on one save David Sullivan stayed on so I was fine. Another save I just had a change of Chairman because both Gold and Sullivan left. The next save both G and S went again and I had a board takeover and was sacked because the new Chairman wanted to bring his own man in, despite obviously me winning the title and qualifying for the Champions League. I certainly would have hoped for a player and fan revolt but instead just threw a hissy fit and reloaded the save at the end of the first season and again had a board takeover but this time kept my job. So as I say a bit of a lottery and the same thing doesn't happen every time.

Ummmm....interesting so even reputation doesnt count for much. Lottery as you say

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
They made it an achievement on steam, surviving a board takeover, so maybe thats why.

I had a board takeover I survived early in my save, I was worried especially cos my form went downhill a bit while they decided my future, 2 or 3 year save potentially ruined because of this, but I survived it. Luckily I was over achieving which I think is why I kept my job. I'd have been fuming if I had lost 3 season the time it took to do it.

It is realistic, but this is a game and it is gamebreaking to be thrown out of your save by this if its not at all in your control. I would say if it doesnt, it might do, but you should be given a little time to prove you are the right man. People want to manage their favourite clubs, they want to start of at the bottom, and build a reputation, and that is what this game is suppose to allow you to do.

This bang on

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
It is realistic, but this is a game and it is gamebreaking to be thrown out of your save by this if its not at all in your control. I would say if it doesnt, it might do, but you should be given a little time to prove you are the right man. People want to manage their favourite clubs, they want to start of at the bottom, and build a reputation, and that is what this game is suppose to allow you to do.
Ideally SI should make the unsackable option available on both game modes (it's can be added to FMT) & without the need to unlock it, it's an option on EHM so hopefully it will make its way over to FM.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The game allows you to do that. But if you could do that sort of unrealistic stuff totally unpunished, the game would lose it's unique credibility quickly. And a very large portion of FM gamers would be seriously put off. You are allowed to do some silly and unrealistic stuff - but often not unpunished. That is the compromise.

Btw; there is a "unsackable" option in the IGE. (In Game Editor).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Never noticed that there was an unsackable option as part of the IGE, still think it would be better to have it as a game start option for folk who hate being sacked to the point that they don't carry on that save with another club & tbh it's probably so low down on the list a reasons to buy the IGE that I can't see it impacting sales of that add-on.

Gets a little trickier as it's also a purchasable for FMT but I'm sure there are enough good ideas at SI Towers that it could be replaced without a loss of income on that side.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hey, I'm all for letting people play the game as they want - as long as it does not impact on my wish to play it as realistic as possible. But if too much silliness is allowed I would lose some of my ... how should I put it, respect for the game, for lack of a better word? This game encourages realistic play in it's current state, and that is good in my opinion, and if it messes around with that too much I would probably not bother with it any more.

So I'm all for letting people start a game in "arcade" mode if they so wish. As long as me choosing "realistic" mode is still available and not diminished in any way.

2 different modes of playing this game is a good idea - and one that has been around for years. That way both ends of the FM gamer spectrum could continue playing this game series in the future more like they want to play it. I can see the point that some FM'ers make, that this game has become too ... "serious", and not enough of a game. I don't agree, but I acknowledge that sentiment and can see why they feel that way.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

We agree & disagree, I only play FM in an LLM zealot way which has become more challenging & rewarding over recent years as SI have tightened up much of the code that made it too easy to climb up the leagues & added new features but I also accept that there will be a group who are just after the fantasy football approach & as an unsackable option (single player/hotseat games only) would not impact on the game code it cannot impact on my enjoyment & certainly not my respect for the game or SI. A user who would normally be sacked will still have to deal with low board confidence scores which would limit their ability to get requests approved & to sign new players so it won't make for a demonstrably easier FM experience, just one that isn't brought to an end because that user cannot bring themselves to managing another team.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Alright, but do you think "unsackable mode" is enough for the group that wants the game to be more "gamey"? I doubt that it will, I think many of them would like the game to be much simplified in many more areas. In a way that is not fulfilled with todays FM Classic/FMT separation.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm sure there are people who want to associate themselves with the FM brand (I hate myself for typing that) because it's rightly seen as the most realistic football game out there but do not want the hassle of a challenging game that gives you more as you put more into it. I also think an unsackable option would keep enough people happy to not need to go any further with gamer aids on Sim mode while FMT & FMH provide alternatives for those who want a less complex version of FM, the difficult marketing exercise is to promote those options in a way that does not make them appear to be the less intelligent siblings of FM which is how I think too many people currently view them. Finding a way to use the FM skin for FMT (PC) might help correct that perception as it is a common reason given for people not wanting to play FMT when it is often the clear best option based on what they want from their FM playing time.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm on shaky ground discussing FM Touch because I haven't ... ehm ... touched it. But it is my understanding from reading the forums that FMT does not go far enough in the "gamey" direction for many, particularly when it comes to the tactical aspects of the game. I did touch FM Classic, and if I had been in the "gamey" crowd, FMC would probably not have satisfied me. Not simplifying things enough. Look, I am happy with the full fat FM as it is pretty much, so I don't really care much for the gamey crowd per se, but I'm sure SI does and are keen on keeping that group of customers. There are several options available for SI to try to acheive this, and as long as they don't fall into the trap of dumbing down FM Proper, as I like to call it, then I'm fine. My concern is only that SI keep the full fat FM as realistic and satisfying as possible for the realism group of FM gamers, and don't touch it to cater for the other group of FM gamers in a way that makes it less attractive for me/us. Unsackable mode as a switch in FM - fine. In the meanwhile, the IGE is there, and not expensive at all.

In fact, being able to switch off parts of FM that you don't like is not a bad idea either - but it is my understanding that it's rather difficult to separate the different game modules/areas in FM and still have a working game, so I guess that isn't an option. It would be good if it were. I for one would like to be able to switch off the "talks", as I feel that particular aspect of the game does not add realism, but quite the contrary, because of the mechanical way these talks are implemented, it feels phoney and dare i say it - gamey - as soon as you encounter it for the second time, if not earlier.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Just thought I would add my "sacking experience" was in FMT and I must say I did find it extremely harsh considering I had won the League first season. I mean what more could I do?! I have also been sacked in an old save after coming 3rd and then starting a tad slow. I was 10th in November and got the boot which again I thought was a bit harsh all things considered, however I accepted that one a bit more because it was at least form related. When you get sacked just because an incoming owner fancies his own manager no matter what you have done I definitely thinks that's a bit off. Especially if you aren't bothered with managing a career mode from scratch or managing other clubs. In the history of FM I have only been interested in managing West Ham so if I get sacked and reload doesn't help then I will just start a new game with West Ham again which kind of wastes the original save.

I don't really think a total un-sackable option is needed, just maybe an un-sackable option for board takeovers. Being sacked for poor form is fair game I guess.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Without the need of clicking an unsackable option. The more simpler and easier method of doing things would be. If you are matching all board objectives, good squad harmony, good wage budget etc....at the time of a takeover then it should be built into the game that you most certainly will not get sacked after a takeover. Clearly if job security is below stable then it is squeaky bum time.

As the chap above said ''People want to manage their favourite clubs, they want to start off at the bottom, and build a reputation, and that is what this game is suppose to allow you to do''

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Starting at a smaller top division doesn't qualify as the bottom, Spurs08 was spot on that you need to match your starting rep to the level you start at & if it's too low then the risk of being replaced by a more reputable name will be ever present until you start bringing success to the club & as a result get the appropriate rep boost.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Starting at a smaller top division doesn't qualify as the bottom, Spurs08 was spot on that you need to match your starting rep to the level you start at & if it's too low then the risk of being replaced by a more reputable name will be ever present until you start bringing success to the club & as a result get the appropriate rep boost.

Yes, but where is the fun in that starting with a rep level that matches the club. Much more fun and more of a challenge building up your low reputation with a big club (Andre Villas-Boas springs to mind). This didnt seem to be an issue in past FM games, well it wasnt for me anyway. If you matched board objectives at the time of takeover you kept your job, FM16 is too unpredictable with these takeovers like a lottery. Clearly we are talking about moving forward here for future FM games.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest

Unsackable isnt really whats required, just not being sacked for nothing, or out of your hands, or for no fault of your own. Talking realistic? ok, should it be impossible to get top jobs, should SI make it impossible to start with Man city and Man U in 2017, cos its not realistic they would sack there managers to swap them, or any of the top clubs really that are happy with their managers, no, because that is the whole point of the game. If he didnt have the right rep the board shouldnt of hired him in the first place. But SI know that wouldnt be in the best interests of the game, kind of like this really but it still made its way in.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Talking realistic? ok, should it be impossible to get top jobs, should SI make it impossible to start with Man city and Man U in 2017
This is always a poor angle to take when discussing how the game handles certain events that it is attempting to simulate, mainly because in a true gaming sense you are not managing the team, it is your manager creation who is rightly in their position because that's how you started the game.

Using the same logic there should be no simulation or historical RPG/RTS games on the market because in each case the user will fail to meet the starting criteria of really being a pilot, military commander or mystical being.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest
This is always a poor angle to take when discussing how the game handles certain events that it is attempting to simulate, mainly because in a true gaming sense you are not managing the team, it is your manager creation who is rightly in their position because that's how you started the game.

Using the same logic there should be no simulation or historical RPG/RTS games on the market because in each case the user will fail to meet the starting criteria of really being a pilot, military commander or mystical being.

No, its nothing like it. You are replacing someone, not taking its place as that person. Man U will not sack Mourino and man city will not sack Pep to swap them for another manager in reality, so if SI are going realistic these 2 clubs and many others should not be possible to manage when 2017 comes out, cos theres no way in the world these boards would get rid of these managers when theyve just hired them, no matter what starting rep you give yourself.

But obviously for the sake of the game it is made possible. Cos that is the whole point of the game.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Yes, but where is the fun in that starting with a rep level that matches the club. Much more fun and more of a challenge building up your low reputation with a big club (Andre Villas-Boas springs to mind). This didnt seem to be an issue in past FM games, well it wasnt for me anyway. If you matched board objectives at the time of takeover you kept your job, FM16 is too unpredictable with these takeovers like a lottery. Clearly we are talking about moving forward here for future FM games.

It's been in the game for years and years - I seem to recall it happening in FM07 but could be wrong on the exact version. Anyway, the problem with giving yourself a big challenge is that it's far more likely you'll be screwed over by bad luck, that's just how it works. Perhaps you'll underperform due to a spate of injuries and be out of a job, or the players will turn on you, or there'll be a board takeover who don't see why you're there in the first place and get rid of you. I agree starting with a low reputation is fun, but it's certainly not the best option if you only want to manage one, big club (noting Villa are very far from the bottom: in terms of reputation, they are 183rd out of 39,387 active clubs in the database, or in the top 0.5%, and really need a top reputation and coaching badges),

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Perhaps you'll underperform due to a spate of injuries and be out of a job, or the players will turn on you, or there'll be a board takeover who don't see why you're there in the first place and get rid of you.

The difference is that tactical and squad building skills can overcome to the two first problems. You can't do anything do avoid being sacked during a takeover. It's a dice roll, nothing else. It may happen in real life, but in my opionion it translates very poorly into gameplay.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

For me, there are 2 reasons that someone would pick a Premier League club and then pick the lowest available badges and reputation.

1) Realism. In football terms, you're a nobody in real life and you don't have any coaching badges. Do you know what else is realistic? The unknown manager, who has inexplicably been given a high profile job, being given the boot when a new board comes in. I'm all for people playing their own game in their own way, but surely we can't start picking and choosing which parts of the game should remain realistic and which should not?

2) To make it harder. Success! You've made it harder - the new board are now willing to sack you.

Either way, you're starting a game up in way that makes a certain outcome possible (and, you could argue, desirable - if the intention is added challenge), then complaining when that outcome actually happens.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Someone said it above. The simple solution is to have an option That stops a sack due to board takeover. That's all.

The game is meant to be an accurate simulation of real life football management.. sackings of all types included.

If users really want to, they can use the in game editor and make themselves unsackable..

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
The game is meant to be an accurate simulation of real life football management.. sackings of all types included.

If users really want to, they can use the in game editor and make themselves unsackable..

The point is that making yourself 'unsackable' using the editor ain't the same as making yourself 'unsackable' when/if there's a takeover. One removes all sorts of reasons for a sack, the other removes only one reason.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You can turn sackable on/off as and when you please. You'll get a message if the new board is thinking things over and considering to sack you. Use the IGE, make yourself unsackable - when the board messages you with the good news that they are keeping you, use the IGE and make yourself sackable again. Problem solved.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Just to weigh in

Mark Hughes - Man City - admittedly not sacked straightaway, but was because of takeover

Sean Dyche - Watford - the new Italian owners wanted an Italian in charge, Gianfranco Zola

Sam Alardyce - Blackburn - sacked when Venkys tookover

Greg Megson - Shefield Wednesday - Milan Mandarić tookover

Neil Warnock - QPR - sacked by new owners Tony Fernandes

I know it's tough to take in the game, but it does happen and it's just part of football.

As others have noted, you can make yourself unsackable in the editor - although I agree an option to trigger this in game would be nice.

It's happened me before, and I got another job and travelled a few continents racking up titles and medals, and eventually worked my way back to my beloved Leeds.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I do not see anyone questioning the realism of a new board looking to bring in their own man, the general line in this thread is whether SI should introduce an option to stop this from happening without having to pay extra for the sake of the gameplay experience & on that you do seem to be in agreement.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Post 26... why am I being asked to justify my posts?

Anyway, if it was an option in the game, then who in their right mind would opt to be available for a sacking during a takeover?

I don't think anyone would. This would detract from the realism, if that's what people are after.

If not, the option is available in the IGE.

Case closed.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I certainly didn't ask you to justify your post & as an LLM zealot I would not use an unsackable option, I'm sure there are many others who would take that same view & leave the option unused.

The case also isn't closed as there are people asking for the option & I understand why they might not be willing to pay more for the game than I would have to to get that option as is currently the case, it's something that I believe SI should & I expect will think about, especially as the option is included in Eastside Hockey Manager.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I carried out a little experiment on this last night. Started a career with Norwich, no badges, sunday league experience. Aston Villa as one of my favoured clubs.

Anyway get to November i get a news update that a consortium is interested in buying Aston Villa. So i create a new manager again with no badges and sunday league experience and manage Aston Villa, Aston Villa sitting in 19th, I play 4 games holidayed/simulated, Won 1 game out of the 4 sitting in 19th still. Takeover goes through Graham Taylor the new owner lets me keep my job because of something to do with good support from the previous board. What after 4 games and 1 win sitting in 19th.

Goes to show that takeovers are a lottery and it doesnt take into consideration your reputation etc.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Being a recently installed manager will have added an unusual variable to the mix, as Villa pretty much always get a new owner early in a save any test should start with the user as Villa manager.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I carried out a little experiment on this last night. Started a career with Norwich, no badges, sunday league experience. Aston Villa as one of my favoured clubs.

Anyway get to November i get a news update that a consortium is interested in buying Aston Villa. So i create a new manager again with no badges and sunday league experience and manage Aston Villa, Aston Villa sitting in 19th, I play 4 games holidayed/simulated, Won 1 game out of the 4 sitting in 19th still. Takeover goes through Graham Taylor the new owner lets me keep my job because of something to do with good support from the previous board. What after 4 games and 1 win sitting in 19th.

Goes to show that takeovers are a lottery and it doesnt take into consideration your reputation etc.

Your job status would still have been stable, as it was early days still.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just to weigh in

Mark Hughes - Man City - admittedly not sacked straightaway, but was because of takeover

Sean Dyche - Watford - the new Italian owners wanted an Italian in charge, Gianfranco Zola

Sam Alardyce - Blackburn - sacked when Venkys tookover

Greg Megson - Shefield Wednesday - Milan Mandarić tookover

Neil Warnock - QPR - sacked by new owners Tony Fernandes

I know it's tough to take in the game, but it does happen and it's just part of football.

As others have noted, you can make yourself unsackable in the editor - although I agree an option to trigger this in game would be nice.

It's happened me before, and I got another job and travelled a few continents racking up titles and medals, and eventually worked my way back to my beloved Leeds.

None of them won the Premier League though. I did first season and still got sacked in one save as per post 11 which as I said I found extremely harsh. As for the editor, there isn't one in FMT, unless I have missed something.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×
×
  • Create New...