England vs Iceland - 8pm ITV

[Heartwork]

It doesn't, it just means France (plus whoever it would be in the semis) have just been embarrassed too.

Even if Iceland pulled off a Leicester and won the thing? Man the whole of Europe would be embarrassed at that (heck the whole of world football seeing as the World Champions are European).

[scott MUFC]

would be less embarrassing if Portugal won it via extra times and penos the entire way bh

[Boltman]

Make a change from a dull as ditchwater Spain side one-nilling everything into oblivion.

[scott MUFC]

Spain are just Man Utd last season now...

[Heartwork]

Would be hilarious to see a Wales-Iceland final. Kinda want it to happen for the sheer insanity of it all. Most of the other "smaller" nations have fallen at the Last 16 so it's down to them to represent the little guys.

[scott MUFC]

Rather not see Wales in the Final.. it will be like Scotland gloatfest.

[Boltman]

Yeah, Walesshire can gtf.

[TM]

don't really understand why Iceland winning the title would be "embarassing" considering they are more likely all full time footballers, they have great cohesive as a team and we've had shocks before with the Euros (92 Denmark, 04 Greece). If you work as a team, like those two mentioned above did, anything can happen and it doesn't matter what talent you face

the hyperbole earlier with classing the 2-1 defeat alongside the USA 1-0 defeat of England in 1950 was just stupid by the media

[scott MUFC]

92 Denmark had a Decent keeper tbh.

[VamPook]

don't really understand why Iceland winning the title would be "embarassing" considering they are more likely all full time footballers, they have great cohesive as a team and we've had shocks before with the Euros (92 Denmark, 04 Greece). If you work as a team, like those two mentioned above did, anything can happen and it doesn't matter what talent you face

the hyperbole earlier with classing the 2-1 defeat alongside the USA 1-0 defeat of England in 1950 was just stupid by the media

Full time footballers but playing for what clubs

[Heartwork]

Well they have players in the Russian Premier League, Serie A, the Premier League, Ligue 1 and the Bundesliga.

[Heartwork]

92 Denmark had a Decent keeper tbh.

Who was that again? The current Leicester lad's dad right?

[scott MUFC]

yes the Great Dane himself

[Heartwork]

Wonder what happened to him after that. Hear he moved to some backwater league in north-west Europe and won a few trophies there.

[Razzler]

I kind of get fed up with how bitter these ex-England players are, Shearer, Cole, etc. I mean, I get it, this is how we all feel but we felt this about YOU lot as well! They speak as though they presided over some great era of England successes, ffs

I mentioned to a friend as the tournament started and it happens every tournament, I don't know why every country's players can really really play above themselves, exceed expectations for performances but we can't even reach a level close to week to week league displays

Countries like Turkey, not the best but semi finals here and there and they freaking give it everything. You look through their team and there's no 'he was rubbish', 'he was terrible' they all pretty much played as well as they can. Northern Ireland, ffs, absolutely gave it their all, Republic of Ireland, made up of middling clubs and gave it everything, gave fans some joy and performed above their level, were in with a chance of pulling it off. Iceland too, to a man giving it 101%, no need to say 'we want to win it' or 'we have learned from our mistakes' in interviews like our guys, just simply go out and player football as well as they can

All through the tournament players are doing this. Time after time after time after time our players can't do it. They may not be absolute world beaters but these players perform for top clubs in the league and Europe, they not bad players but absolutely no one, manager after manager cannot get a tune out of this lot. The most coddled, fragile losers in history, it's transcending generations and they will not learn a single lesson and soon we will be hearing 'we won't make the mistakes' or 'we won't underestimate anyone' all over again

[Rob1981]

So do we drop Joe Hart for the quarters?

[/pougatch]

**** me.

[Barry Cartman]

Disgusting performance from every single one of them, especially the coaching staff who have at least at the decency to just quit after the game. How Gary Neville could ever go back to being a pundit after that 1st goal I don't know, for him to sit there each week and slate teams set plays only for us to concede that 1st goal and continue to defend like that for the rest of game is incredible.

Hodgson must go down as one of the worst England managers theres ever been, his decision making during before and after this tournament has been pathetic. From picking a squad few agreed with, to not having a system that suits the players so he can shoehorn a very much declined Wayne Rooney, then just baffling choices on the pitch like Harry Kane taking set pieces.

People were going crazy about Rooney's 'performances' in the first few games, when we did absolutely nothing and were bailed out by a piece of magic from Sturridge. His performance last night was ****ing dreadful and this is the guy we've messed our whole formation around just so he can play. Same **** happened in the World Cup with Gerrard, who at least retired after that one whereas i'm sad to see Rooney has said he won't be, so we can only rely on the next manager just not having him around anymore.

For me Hart is done now with England, completely bottled the tournament and we have nowhere to go now with him in goal now as he can't been relied upon. That 2nd goal was just pathetic, the defending leading up to it was bad but Hart 100% has to save that.

The whole irony of last night was the only player who was actually playing well was Sterling, why he came off when he did when it was clear Rooney or Kane should be off just shows what a terrible coaching staff we had watching the game. From Sterling going off to Rashford finally coming on, we had absolutely nothing going forward other than Vardy trying to get behind a tight backline

Embarrassing

[ajw10]

Oh there's a definite lack of creativity. Sterling is the epitome of this. One of the most one-dimensional and predictable players I've seen. Youth coaches are so obsessed with drilling in technique and physicality that they don't allow for creative freedom - there's also the attitude in England of any kid that gets a bit creative and tries using tricks and stills during games is "showing off" and it's quickly knocked out of them by other players/coaches/parents.

I agree with the coaching point, but you are picking on the wrong player. Sterling is fine, Sterling IS creative, but you can't create if the movement is terrible.

[Astafjevs]

I can see a Hart benching being one of the first things the new coach does, to put 'his stamp' on the team. Only for him to be recalled to the XI six months later

[Cedrik]

From a foreigner point of view, I think English NT players are top top class technically and physically.

But there's such a lack of creativity. Never risk the unexpected, never try anything extraordinary, just mechanized thoughtless play. Iceland knew exactly what they would do almost every time. This also happened in the previous games.

Either the players lack imagination or they were brainwashed into playing like that during their younger years, making them afraid to try (and possibly fail) something different an thus waste their abilities.

I actually don't agree. I think some English players are good, but not top class and definitely not on a technical/tactical level. I heard Hamann give some harsh critics about the Premier League and I agree with it to be honest. I love watching English football, don't get me wrong, but I don't think it is the strongest league in the world and players easily get overrated when performing good for a few matches, especially English players. And that is all okay, but it does give a slightly distorted image of the reality.

Now of course there have been made some ridiculous decions in management, but I don't believe that is the only problem. We have seen it with English national teams over the past years, with many managers, in the end it doesn't work out. Manager gets kicked out and the whole cycle starts again ending in disappointment.

And I think the problem will only get worse as English clubs will keep buying more and more foreigners. Also the smaller clubs have incredible amounts of money now to spend, and the majority will go into contracting foreign players, foreign managers and foreign youngsters. This will make it all even more difficult to get a decent national team imo. I am definitely hoping for a change soon because I really would like to England to do good at a EC/WC but I don't see it happening in the near future to be honest.

[Astafjevs]

There's something Haka-esque about that Iceland clap chant thing. Particularly when Gunnarsson leads the other players to do it in front of the fans. Need to make this a pre-match ritual.

[Wiggins Top Boys]

I actually don't agree. I think some English players are good, but not top class and definitely not on a technical/tactical level. I heard Hamann give some harsh critics about the Premier League and I agree with it to be honest. I love watching English football, don't get me wrong, but I don't think it is the strongest league in the world and players easily get overrated when performing good for a few matches, especially English players. And that is all okay, but it does give a slightly distorted image of the reality.

Now of course there have been made some ridiculous decions in management, but I don't believe that is the only problem. We have seen it with English national teams over the past years, with many managers, in the end it doesn't work out. Manager gets kicked out and the whole cycle starts again ending in disappointment.

And I think the problem will only get worse as English clubs will keep buying more and more foreigners. Also the smaller clubs have incredible amounts of money now to spend, and the majority will go into contracting foreign players, foreign managers and foreign youngsters. This will make it all even more difficult to get a decent national team imo. I am definitely hoping for a change soon because I really would like to England to do good at a EC/WC but I don't see it happening in the near future to be honest.

well said.

tactically and mentally our players are very weak.

we need a manager who can make a team a proper team, tactically sound, wants to play for each other and all those other cliches. Wales and Iceland are perfect examples. they are completely solid in every aspect but they don't stifle the talented players/attacking quality in doing so.

Just because we have players earning 100k a week to finish 8th in the premier league doesn't mean we are too 'big' to do this. the FA and the Premier League need a reality check, we are good but not as good as the brand image that they would like to project.

[Wigmore]

That really was something last night. I've never seen a team crumble like that in the second half. We're talking world class players unable to string two passes together for a prolonged period of time, incredible.

Good job I've got Iceland in the work sweepstake, there is yet hope

[Baptista_8]

@Wigmore - We don't have one world class player. I'd have said Kane was the closest, but what a shocker he had.

[Baptista_8]

I can see a Hart benching being one of the first things the new coach does, to put 'his stamp' on the team. Only for him to be recalled to the XI six months later

Butland will overtake him anyway. He's a better keeper.

[Icelander83]

That really was something last night. I've never seen a team crumble like that in the second half. We're talking world class players unable to string two passes together for a prolonged period of time, incredible.

Good job I've got Iceland in the work sweepstake, there is yet hope

Was the exact same when we dismantled the Netherlands at home. Second half they just seemed to have left their brains in the dressing room and played right into us for 45 minutes

[Federico]

When I watch Iceland, it came in my mind Denmark '92, with right proportions.

Them and Leicester shown us why football is such a beautiful game.

I think the most of us underestimated icelanders. But they won they regroupment after all, kicking the dutch out of the tournament. That meant something I guess. Congratulations guys, at the moment your team counts far more than 300,000 fans

[Smiley Dan]

I think some English players are good, but not top class and definitely not on a technical/tactical level. I heard Hamann give some harsh critics about the Premier League and I agree with it to be honest. I love watching English football, don't get me wrong, but I don't think it is the strongest league in the world and players easily get overrated when performing good for a few matches, especially English players. And that is all okay, but it does give a slightly distorted image of the reality.

Agree. Particularly as the defences are typically clown college. It's not hard to create chances when the game is played at such a high pace with disorganised and stretched defences.

It'd probably take us about five games to score against Italy.

[sc91]

As I said though, it was hardly surprising I thought.

[Smiley Dan]

tactically and mentally our players are very weak.

we need a manager who can make a team a proper team' date=' tactically sound[...']

The trouble is that if it's the players that are tactically weak, how ingrained is that from playing in a tactically brain-dead league?

More of our players need to play in Italy, Germany or Spain.

[Eleanor_Rigby]

I'd be interested to know what world-class players Wigmore is talking about. I can't think of a single world class player in the England team. Yes, there's some very good players, but they're not world class. That's half the problem with English football, people rubbish the media for over blowing their players, yet in the same breath do it themselves. Wales have a world class player, England do not.

It will be interesting to see how Kane, Alli etc perform in the CL next season when they come up against the very top clubs and players.

[Federico]

Ranieri shown how a british team can perform a good defence if well instructed and coached. I'm not surprised the most of italian coaches did well in England (Ancelotti, Vialli, Ranieri..), so in my opinion probably the problem is that english football is never really evolved until today.

But the next year with Guardiola and Conte things might change.

[Wigmore]

I'd be interested to know what world-class players Wigmore is talking about. I can't think of a single world class player in the England team. Yes, there's some very good players, but they're not world class. That's half the problem with English football, people rubbish the media for over blowing their players, yet in the same breath do it themselves. Wales have a world class player, England do not.

It will be interesting to see how Kane, Alli etc perform in the CL next season when they come up against the very top clubs and players.

Perhaps world class is an overstatement. My meaning is, top level professional footballers who simply don't make the sort of mistakes we were seeing last night.

[PaulHartman71]

I don't get all this "we need to completely overhaul our league system, youth setup etc" stuff I'm seeing on social media. We lost to ****ing Iceland We lost primarily because of an outdated manager who ****ed up his squad selection by not knowing or even caring what system he used - the bloke even said in an interview before the tournament "systems don't win you tournaments, players do". He wasn't helped by **** poor performances from loads of the players, especially from guys like Joe Hart and Harry Kane, as well as coaching staff like Gary Neville who somehow allowed our defensive setup to be amateur hour. That and the absolutely stupid decisions to have Harry Kane on all set pieces despite everyone in the country realising it was absolute stupidity.

[Wigmore]

I don't get all this "we need to completely overhaul our league system, youth setup etc" stuff I'm seeing on social media. We lost to ****ing Iceland We lost primarily because of an outdated manager who ****ed up his squad selection by not knowing or even caring what system he used - the bloke even said in an interview before the tournament "systems don't win you tournaments, players do". He wasn't helped by **** poor performances from loads of the players, especially from guys like Joe Hart and Harry Kane, as well as coaching staff like Gary Neville who somehow allowed our defensive setup to be amateur hour. That and the absolutely stupid decisions to have Harry Kane on all set pieces despite everyone in the country realising it was absolute stupidity.

Agreed, there isn't a wider problem with grassroots football in England - just go to any park on a Sunday morning and you'll see we don't really have an issue there. This was simply a group of otherwise very good footballers completely forgetting how to play for 80 minutes, no more than that.

The issue is than England play so infrequently so individual results are magnified massively in the media and in people's minds. When Liverpool drew to Exeter this season, the world didn't end.

[Wiggins Top Boys]

The trouble is that if it's the players that are tactically weak, how ingrained is that from playing in a tactically brain-dead league?

More of our players need to play in Italy, Germany or Spain.

it all stems from that. the bubble that has been created by the Premier League does nothing to help our players stay grounded. it's all cliches but they (generalising) are overpaid, over-protected, immature people that earn far too much money far too young. We overhype any good young English player because of how infrequently they come through the system.

the fans are in just as much of a daze, do you think they will remember any of this when sturridge scores a brace against burnley does a silly dance?

[Icelander83]

When I watch Iceland, it came in my mind Denmark '92, with right proportions.

Them and Leicester shown us why football is such a beautiful game.

I think the most of us underestimated icelanders. But they won they regroupment after all, kicking the dutch out of the tournament. That meant something I guess. Congratulations guys, at the moment your team counts far more than 300,000 fans

Second in our group, actually. The Czechs ended top. We did however kick the Dutch out, beating them home and away

[pearcey_90]

I agree with the coaching point, but you are picking on the wrong player. Sterling is fine, Sterling IS creative, but you can't create if the movement is terrible.

Annoyed me so much yesterday watching the lack of movement from the midfielders when Sterling had the ball. They just stopped and expected him to get past two players. For Man City you'd have Silva/Yaya/Aguero all come give angles and quick passes to open up a side, we just stand still and hope for individual magic.

The last 15 minutes of that game was just tragic how much we missed controlled the ball and bottled tackles. Remember one on edge of our own area when Wilshere lost the ball then Rooney of all people bottled the 50/50 tackle after and Iceland had the ball. In the past he would have smashed that ball and man.

[Federico]

Second in our group, actually. The Czechs ended top. We did however kick the Dutch out, beating them home and away

Ooops you have my respect nonetheless

[Razzler]

@Wigmore - We don't have one world class player. I'd have said Kane was the closest, but what a shocker he had.

Forget 'World Class Player' I will settle for some 'very good' players playing really well for starters

[Smiley Dan]

As I'm sure we all agree "world class" is bandied about way too much. To me, it's a player who can get in a "world squad" of 24.

Only "world class" player we have had in 18 years is Ashley Cole, imo. Before that we had more, and that's why we did better in tournaments then.

[Icelander83]

I'm fairly sure Scholes didn't retire more than 18 years ago :confused:

[Anti Spiral]

He said his opinion. I also wouldn't have Scholes there.

[Icelander83]

We don't have a :confused: any more?

And not having Scholes as world class is just wrong, no matter if you hide behind "my obviously wrong opinion"

[TM]

Icelandic commentator at it again

[Smiley Dan]

Scholes was our best midfielder during his time, but he wasn't world class. As I said, I have a tighter definition than most.

[brett.spurs]

All of this is beside the point, we lost to Iceland ffs.

[Smiley Dan]

Good point.

[Pangaea]

Scholes was our best midfielder during his time, but he wasn't world class. As I said, I have a tighter definition than most.

May as well not use the expression at all if Scholes wasn't a world class midfielder.

As usual I think England fans are overreacting. England played some pretty darn good stuff in the group stage, and could quite easily have won all 3 games. They had the play and chances. The team has taken steps forward this tournament, even if a loss to Iceland of course is a huge disappointment.

Maybe they were shell-shocked, but it was embarrassing to watch the England fans in the stands just stand there, not making a darn sound for most of the match.

[GunmaN1905]

May as well not use the expression at all if Scholes wasn't a world class midfielder.

As usual I think England fans are overreacting. England played some pretty darn good stuff in the group stage, and could quite easily have won all 3 games. They had the play and chances. The team has taken steps forward this tournament, even if a loss to Iceland of course is a huge disappointment.

Maybe they were shell-shocked, but it was embarrassing to watch the England fans in the stands just stand there, not making a darn sound for most of the match.

I don't think they're overreacting.

Their performance was complete garbage.

As I've said after the second game, as soon as England comes across decent opposition, Hodgson's atrocious midfield setup will look terrible.