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England vs Iceland - 8pm ITV

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Shearer finally saying something i and many have said for years and that is we dont have as good as players as we think we do. We dont have any world class players in the team and even though the Premier League is arguably the best in the world, its the foreign players that make it so

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This is incredible :D. Like a comedy sketch!

Just horrendous from England. Indescribably embarrassing from top to bottom. No wonder English fans are so cynical when this happens every time.

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Shearer finally saying something i and many have said for years and that is we dont have as good as players as we think we do. We dont have any world class players in the team and even though the Premier League is arguably the best in the world, its the foreign players that make it so

Italy don't really have that many world class players, they still play a whole hell of a lot better than England do. That's down to coaching and managing

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Italy's front line play for average or worse clubs.

its all the defenders and the fact they have a working tactic.

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Italy don't really have that many world class players, they still play a whole hell of a lot better than England do. That's down to coaching and managing

Well Leicester City have proven you dont need the best players to win things, as have Iceland tonight so yea agree tactics rule over players. So many pundits though have called England players world class over recent years when none are

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Hi :)

Best part about this is once we went ahead, we never once looked like losing the lead. Phenomenal win

And you said we shouldn't have taken Rashford. :p

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And you said we shouldn't have taken Rashford. :p

I did? :D Either way, happy as heck that Roy is clueless and didn't let him play more than 5 minutes tonight!

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And what is that chanting your fans make? Some voodoo s*** or something? :D Made England choke more than usual.

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For me, the biggest problem with this England squad is that there isn't any natural width apart from the full-backs. I don't think Sterling or Sturridge are proper wingers and they tend to do the same things time after time. So for a well organised defensive team like Iceland, they must be quite easy to defend against, as their players must know what Sterling and Sturridge are going to do. I think Hodgson missed a trick in not taking Andros Townsend as he can provide that width and was hitting form late in the season.

I think this England squad is ok. But the problem is that the team that gets put out on the pitch isn't properly balanced.

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don't really think I've seen Shearer in such a rage after an England game like he was with the Iceland game - strangely he mentioned the EPL which seems to be the thing the media don't mention and the fact that the foreign players light it up rather than the English ones

the FA have managed to get the biggest league in the world but at what cost to the national team? losing to Iceland, drawing with Slovakia and Costa Rica in major tournaments. I reckon Howe would be a good choice, might bring something different to the table rather than somebody like Southgate who is ingrained in a system that obviously isn't working

rep before form players were mentioned as well, wonder how England would have performed if they took players like Drinkwater and Noble who were great performers in the league this year rather than some who did end up on the plane? although in Roy's defence, it was more creation and finishing where the problems were and he had form players there in Kane and Vardy

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Don't even know where to begin. Well done Iceland!

Has Rooney retired yet?

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And what is that chanting your fans make? Some voodoo s*** or something? :D Made England choke more than usual.

Viking ****, actually :cool:

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don't really think I've seen Shearer in such a rage after an England game like he was with the Iceland game - strangely he mentioned the EPL which seems to be the thing the media don't mention and the fact that the foreign players light it up rather than the English ones

the FA have managed to get the biggest league in the world but at what cost to the national team? losing to Iceland, drawing with Slovakia and Costa Rica in major tournaments. I reckon Howe would be a good choice, might bring something different to the table rather than somebody like Southgate who is ingrained in a system that obviously isn't working

rep before form players were mentioned as well, wonder how England would have performed if they took players like Drinkwater and Noble who were great performers in the league this year rather than some who did end up on the plane? although in Roy's defence, it was more creation and finishing where the problems were and he had form players there in Kane and Vardy

Personally I think Shearer should be the next manager. I don't think he'd take it with his media work. But he knows what goes on in International football, and he's been there and done it all before. And I don't think any of the players would dare not give 100% for him. One of the problems with Hodgson is I couldn't imagine him laying the law down when things don't go well. I'm not certain he had the respect of all the players to be honest. That's just a gut feeling though.

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Personally I think Shearer should be the next manager. I don't think he'd take it with his media work. But he knows what goes on in International football, and he's been there and done it all before. And I don't think any of the players would dare not give 100% for him. One of the problems with Hodgson is I couldn't imagine him laying the law down when things don't go well. I'm not certain he had the respect of all the players to be honest. That's just a gut feeling though.

The man spent half time writing his resignation letter. Woy was clueless before the tournament began, this is not a surprise at all.

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Get Shearer and I guarantee you'll never face a humiliating last 16 loss with him as boss :D

(mostly because you'll never get to the last 16)

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he wouldn't take the manager job, although I wonder if he'd go for a striker coaching job

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Shearer just said he'd take it but he would be God awful.

I hope he didn't say that literally lol. I know what you mean though.

To be honest I think he'd be fine. He's got the international experience from his playing days, and should command the respect of the players. It'll be interesting, but I think that the FA will play safe and look to Southgate now.

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Why isn't someone asking Hodgson some damning questions so we can see his owl face shaking trying to think of answer?

Why did you take 4 strikers and 1 winger and then proceed to play strikers on the wings?

Why did you persist with a poor Dele Alli and not give Ross Barkley a single minute?

Why did you wait until the 85th minute to bring Marcus Rashford on tonight?

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The reason why we fail is because people who have achieved absolutely nothing in management like Gary Neville and Alan Shearer are being put forward as possible options. Mental to even consider them. Southgate's done well for the U21, but what's he done in management apart from that really? Weren't people excited about Stuart Pearce due to good performances in the U21's at one point?

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The reason why we fail is because people who have achieved absolutely nothing in management like Gary Neville and Alan Shearer are being put forward as possible options.

Yup, that explains the performance under Hodgson adequately for me :thup:;)

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Shearer finally saying something i and many have said for years and that is we dont have as good as players as we think we do. We dont have any world class players in the team and even though the Premier League is arguably the best in the world, its the foreign players that make it so

Italy haven't got great players either atm but they do bring the best out of them by fitting them into s coherent system which brings out the player's strengths and covers their weaknesses.

We've just won the league with 4 English players (5 if you include one who plays for Jamaica through his grandmother) who were all previously pretty unfancied havjng fantastic seasons because we put them into a system which brought out their strengths and covered their weaknesses.

The "players aren't good enough" excuse is an absolute cop out. We have a huge pool of players. We could have found the players in our potential pool to have played in a system which brought out their strengths and covered their weaknesses to do enough to win the group or beat Iceland tonight with the right manager.

The problem under Hodgson has been exactly the same it has been since Sven - we just picked the big name players and tried to shoehorn them all into the side regardless of how fit they were, how over the hill they were, how out of form they were and completely ignoring whether they suited the system and the players around them.

Everyone knew Wilshere wasn't fit enough to go. Everyone knew Rooney shouldn't have to be shoehorned into the side. Everyone knew Sturridge wasn't a winger. Everyone knew having defenders who need leaders alongside them Cahill and Smalling at the back when you have very attacking full-backs was suicide.

It's the same mistakes over and over again. We pick players on their celebrity and try to shoehorn them in regardless of how unfit or how well they fit in, we don't build a team (like how Italy or Iceland clearly have).

At absolutely no point during that tournament or in the lead up to it did it ever look like Hodgson had any idea what his best side or system were. He just kept throwing mud at the wall and hoping it would stick.

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Worth noting as well whilst a lot of people have been saying this Italy side has no world class players and is all about tactics etc, they've got a defence of Buffon, Chiellini, Barzagli and Bonucci who are all top class players who have been playing together for club and country for years.

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Just came in here to say me, Gregg, Penge etc aren't looking for apologies or anything like that. We aren't going to rub it in your faces or anything. How were you to know we would be right about Wales being a better side? Like I say, no hard feelings from our end lads and hopefully you can enjoy watching us on Friday evening as a bit of familiarity and interest for the 1/4 finals. It'll be a tough game and I think Belgium owe us one after not beating us the past three games but we will endeavour to do our best for you boys as the only home nation remaining in the competition, and the only home nation to win our group. :thup:

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yes that's why Spain were complety stuffed, Italy has a solid defence.

but attacking they have Eder who flopped at Swansea, Pelle of Southampton and a sunderland player

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The Eder who was at Swansea was the Portuguese one you muppet :D

And look how far he's come, quarter finals with Italy! Everything's possible if you just work hard enough

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Italy outplayed Spain for 70+1 minutes, a solid defence is not enough if you want to achieve that.

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Chopra definitely voted leave

I know you must think I'm always on the winning side lately but very much voted remain my friend. Have a nice sleep.

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The Eder who was at Swansea was the Portuguese one you muppet :D

Brilliant!

Second funniest moment of the day. :D

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Worth noting as well whilst a lot of people have been saying this Italy side has no world class players and is all about tactics etc, they've got a defence of Buffon, Chiellini, Barzagli and Bonucci who are all top class players who have been playing together for club and country for years.

Yeh was going to say. The midfield and forwards suck, but Bonucci, Chiellini and Buffon are absolutely world class players.

So is Verratti. But he's injured.

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Italy outplayed Spain for 70+1 minutes, a solid defence is not enough if you want to achieve that.

Not debating that but having one of, if not the, best defensive units in the tournament has and will certainly help Italy.

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Indeed, but I was specifically replying to this quote

yes that's why Spain were complety stuffed, Italy has a solid defence.

which in my opinion is a little bit reductive considering what hell of a match italians played today.

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Squad wise England aren't anywhere near the big boys in terms of quality but they are lights years ahead of the likes of Russia/Wales/Slovakia and Iceland.

It's a mix of poor coaching and zero bottle. I mean look at Harry Kane. He looked like he was about to cry everytime he mucked up. A soft bunch of lads.

Rooney aswell is a complete fraud. Garbage for years. It's laughable how manager after manager for club and country refuse to drop him.

They'll move him to right back next instead of dropping him.

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I don't think playing him as a midfielder was a particularly good idea. I know Man Utd fans were convinced because he played six decent games there at the end of the season against Norwich and other powerhouses, but he's just not got enough to transfer that to a higher standard for England.

Needs to be striker or on the bench.

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Watched the game at a bar full of Icelanders (unplanned, but amazing, if you can call your national side's worst performance in their history amazing). GREAT fans, cheering every tackle like they'd scored. Certainly put what I assumed was England fans booing their team's possession from 4 mins onwards into perspective. As for their actual team, they created more chances with considerably less possession - with structured football rather than lucky counters - and I'd have genuinely been more inclined to apologise than celebrate if we'd equalised. Which would have made it more bearable when they inevitably showed more bottle than we did and beat us on penalties....

Didn't see Shearer's rant (too much Icelandic music!) but if he's complaining about lack of world class players he embodies the problem rather than the solution. Sure, England have perhaps the weakest squad that I can remember them entering an international tournament with (albeit with better than usual variety of forwards on paper) but plenty of teams with worse squads have excelled in international tournaments, never mind not panicked as if they hadn't learned how to pass and trap a football whilst playing a team of well-organised journeymen that were genuinely just happy to be there. Of course, actually looking like they wanted to be there turned out to be a significant advantage.

And when England did have world class players they've tended to lack cohesion and/or bottle as well. Not having world class players is an excuse for getting wiped out in a "group of death", not repeatedly failing to break down rank outsiders who find it remarkably easy to score when they actually need to.

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Don't see many "world class" players in the Iceland squad tbh. I see a lot that are heading for bumper new contracts and/or new moves in the next few weeks, but none that can be considered world class.

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I didn't really interpret what Shearer was saying as implying there's a lack of talent or ability. Personally I've always felt the expectation on the England side is unrealistically high because the squad consists of players from the 'greatest league in the world' despite many of them being the squad players and 'guys' at their respective clubs. The pundits were talking about the players on the pitch tonight all standing around waiting for someone else to do something, and to me that's symptomatic of the fact that in their club sides they have some truly top class foreign players who can be relied upon to produce a moment of genius and turn a match with some regularity. It's not a lack of ability as such, just that they're not really used to being the 'main man' and often get carried a bit despite playing in a top league and against top players in continental competitions.

How many of those players out there tonight would really be considered the top player at their club sides? The first name on the team sheet, the one guy the manager will depend on time after time? I think that was more the point Shearer was trying to get at. The league is a rich league, the big teams attract all the best players, but not many, if any of them, are actually English. It's a problem I think England have suffered from for years and years, not just this squad.

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Thought this has been known for years, the Premier League is carried by the foreign imports. Not going to change any time soon sadly.

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I don't think playing him as a midfielder was a particularly good idea. I know Man Utd fans were convinced because he played six decent games there at the end of the season against Norwich and other powerhouses, but he's just not got enough to transfer that to a higher standard for England.

Needs to be striker or on the bench.

If we'd taken better midfielders that were fully fit, that might have been a consideration, though he did spend 86 minutes playing like an advert for the underrated abilities of James Milner...

Tbh he was playing opposition that were less ambitious and talented than the mediocre Premiership teams he faced in that position for the entire tournament. He was actually good for two games, trying too hard in a sub appearance in a third, and his utter hopelessness today had everything to do with his radar being wonky and touch being heavy even by his inconsistent standards and little to do with not having the positional awareness to play the role. He doesn't need to not play midfield ever again, he just needed to be substituted for someone that could be relied on to look fairly competent at trying to find a way through a defence.

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Indeed, but I was specifically replying to this quote

which in my opinion is a little bit reductive considering what hell of a match italians played today.

it isn't because Spain played to Italy's strengths

underated ability of James milner?

what ability? every time Woy uses him it is instead of a pacy winger.

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it isn't because Spain played to Italy's strengths

I respectfully disagree, but probably I'm too biased to have an opinion about this match. For us, Spain was like mount Everest to climb till the top. We did it with an outstanding performance considering our strenght, and we're proud of that.

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How many of those players out there tonight would really be considered the top player at their club sides? The first name on the team sheet, the one guy the manager will depend on time after time? I think that was more the point Shearer was trying to get at. The league is a rich league, the big teams attract all the best players, but not many, if any of them, are actually English. It's a problem I think England have suffered from for years and years, not just this squad.

I didn't see Shearer's rant, but I'm pretty sure that Rooney, Kane and Vardy have all had successful teams built around them (at two or three stages of his career in Rooney's case). As have the likes of Gerrard, Lampard, Scholes, Terry and Beckham from previous eras, not to mention Shearer himself.

Indeed there aren't many players for genuinely top international sides whose club sides are more dependent on them than Vardy or Kane. Smalling was pretty much the first name on the team sheet for United this season too, although that's not saying much.

Even England's fullbacks, who are very far from world class players, are more integral to their club side's style of play than nearly all international sides' fullbacks.

You can't use league setup as an excuse after being tactically and mentally outclassed by a national side that doesn't even have any domestic based players

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You can't use league setup as an excuse after being tactically and mentally outclassed by a national side that doesn't even have any domestic based players

It's not the sole excuse. Irrespective of what England players are or are not, it's clear that as a nation they should have the depth and quality to see off the likes of Iceland, perform better than they have in the groups stage of this tournament. It's self-evident the manager, and his selections and tactics in this tournament have been found lacking.

Whether or not you think they then underperform once they get into knock-out rounds and meet the likes of Germany, Italy, Argentina and such is a matter of opinion. Frankly, I don't think they do, I think they achieve roughly what I personally would expect them to. Some people think differently, which is fair enough, but the point about truly top players becomes evident when England have historically played these sides. Not every team has a Messi level talent, but these nations still tend to put out players who would frighten me far more than anything England can line up. I totally accept your point about Rooney, Kane, Vardy, but as a non-Englishman there's absolutely nothing that would frighten me about the prospect of facing Jamie Vardy or Harry Kane irrespective of their club success or importance to their respective sides. Aguero, Suarez, yeah, definitely, but not Vardy or Kane. Hell, even Arjen Robben, and his team didn't qualify for this tourney! The English players are still quality players, they're just not on a par with the better players most of the other 'top' nations can turn to.

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From a foreigner point of view, I think English NT players are top top class technically and physically.

But there's such a lack of creativity. Never risk the unexpected, never try anything extraordinary, just mechanized thoughtless play. Iceland knew exactly what they would do almost every time. This also happened in the previous games.

Either the players lack imagination or they were brainwashed into playing like that during their younger years, making them afraid to try (and possibly fail) something different an thus waste their abilities.

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