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herne79

Back to Basics - A Complete Club Strategy

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Id go for Player A if i hes a youngster and i could tutor him up. That clears up all of his cons. I understand the risk of tutoring failing but his attributes are really excellent. Player B is more complete though.

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I agree age is a factor here, but from those numbers I would probably go for player B even without knowing all the cons of player A. Sure player A might have more flair and fuss but I value Teamwork, Workrate, Off the Ball and Pace over everything else - and player B has tons of those. However the full scouting knowledge of both players make it an absolute no brainer. Unless player A is some off the charts regen player B will be the better option.

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Both players are to old to be tutored.

If they weren't then Player A could be a good option with proper tutoring. I'll amend my post to make note of that, I should have mentioned it :).

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Herne79 - brilliant thread, you've mentioned a couple of times during your posts about working hard during games, i would love if you could do a section on how you play an actual game?? I find I end up just watching the game and don't really know what I'm looking for in a tactical sense, or what tweaks I would make to solve problems if I did notice them. If possible I would really appreciate it

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Herne79 - brilliant thread, you've mentioned a couple of times during your posts about working hard during games, i would love if you could do a section on how you play an actual game?? I find I end up just watching the game and don't really know what I'm looking for in a tactical sense, or what tweaks I would make to solve problems if I did notice them. If possible I would really appreciate it

Pretty much anything by Rashidi or Cleon tells you this. Alternatively try my 4-4-2 thread which has quite a lot of detail on watching matches as well http://community.sigames.com/showthread.php/447398-Developing-my-4-4-2.

See if that helps :).

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Herne79 - I still having trouble to know what are the right type of player. What attributes to search for with mid-table league. I'm searching the internet for a good guide for explaining this. So i want to play attacking football. What are the attributes for the defenders, fullbacks, midfielders etc...

Please help me!

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Herne79 - I still having trouble to know what are the right type of player. What attributes to search for with mid-table league. I'm searching the internet for a good guide for explaining this. So i want to play attacking football. What are the attributes for the defenders, fullbacks, midfielders etc...

Please help me!

Just have a think about what you want your players to do.

For example, perhaps you want your fullbacks getting forward regularly in support of attacks, overlapping other players and putting crosses into the box. In which case crossing ability will help, but they'll also need to the physical and mental ability to determine when to get forward and to keep doing it for 90 minutes.

On the other hand, perhaps you don't want your fullbacks getting forward quite so often and you'd rather they prioritise defending - in which case more defensive attributes may be your priority.

Or perhaps you just want an "all rounder", someone who can do a bit of everything.

You can also look at a player's PPMs. For example, perhaps a player has the PPM to "knock ball past opponent", in which case he may benefit from acceleration, but not dribbling (knocking the ball past someone isn't dribbling).

This makes it pretty impossible to write a guide for every scenario simply because there are so many scenarios. The only answer I can give is to just think about what you want each player to do and therefore which attributes would help them do that. Also have a think about PIs, as default PIs can give you a basic idea of what players may do on the pitch. eg., a "Winger's" default PIs include cross more and dribble more, so a player who has the ability to dribble and cross could be a good idea.

Don't over think it, try and keep it simple. The more attributes you allocate to the type of player you want, the more limited your market becomes.

I will be doing a post on this soon, but remember it'll only be targeted at my system and what I want my players to do, although like everything else here, the principles involved are the key points. In a nutshell, I look for everyone to cover my team's overall DNA attributes, plus about 3 or so additional attributes for each position.

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Herne one question about Assist. Manager. What does man management really is for or how important it is? Is it important for those who let him do the team talks and conferences?

Because i'm divided between one with 19 for man management, 19 for CA and 15 for PA and the other with 14 for man management, 18 for both CA and PA.

Great thread.

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Great thread.

Really helpful

I am planning to manage Swansea and my final goal is that all first team are Welsh and my academy products.

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Herne one question about Assist. Manager. What does man management really is for or how important it is? Is it important for those who let him do the team talks and conferences?

Because i'm divided between one with 19 for man management, 19 for CA and 15 for PA and the other with 14 for man management, 18 for both CA and PA.

Great thread.

Think of "Man Management" for your senior squad as "Working with Youngsters" is for your youth teams. It helps with training.

Either of those two choices for AM would be great, assuming the rest of their attributes and personalities are ok.

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Hello from Ecuador! This is an excellent thread :thup: I've not yet had chance to read the entire thing but I'm enjoying what I have read. Very busy with work right now but it's got me pining to get back to it.

In terms of a pressing recruitment need, my only real concern is my Head of Youth Development. Not only do I want him to be a decent coach, but his personality can directly influence the personality of newgen players. This is West Ham's HOYD, and his Balanced personality is just not good enough:

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I want somebody with high levels of Professionalism, as Professionalism has a direct impact on how well players train and develop. Youth Recruitment day isn't for a few months yet, but I'm afraid Terry's days are numbered. We are supposed to be the "Academy of Football" after all.

THIS is a very important insight. I didn't actually realize this until after a season or two with Ajax and establishing an academy structure there. Getting this right made a huge difference to the quality of player I was bringing through. I was lucky that Drogba became a very prominent youth coach after a couple of seasons playing for me as a tutor so I had him in my Head of Youth Development role and his Perfectionist personality spread throughout the club resulting in numerous Champions League titles in the coming years and even a World Cup win for Holland.

A quick word on the DoF - I never use them simply because I like to take control of most aspects of the club. So to me they are just an expensive and unnecessary overhead. However, if you like to relinquish some aspects of control, then employ a DoF.

Just to add my two-pence on the subject of a Director of Football - I use a Director of Football and benefit from it.

I see the Director of Football as a link between myself, and the scouting team and responsible for overseeing the off-the-field matters so allowing me to maintain my focus on the field and the results. I maintain control over the key decisions but it's helpful to be able to delegate and have the extra support.

In terms of attributes, almost the same as a Head Scout so we're looking for:

  • Scouting Current Ability
  • Scouting Potential Ability
  • Perhaps more emphasis on a Professional personality
  • Good scouting knowledge

My Director of Football is responsible for:

  • Hiring and firing Coaching / non-Coaching staff
  • Finds and Makes offers for players for First Team / Youth Team (I still do most of the transfer work but it's helpful to have the extra support to avoid missing anyone)
  • Offers out players I have transfer listed
  • Handles staff contracts
  • Possibly sets assignments for Scouting Team

It's important to note, that if at any time I am unhappy with any of this I can override any decision - renegotiating an offer, not confirming a transfer, hiring my own coach, setting my own scout assignment etc. It never takes anything away from the manager, it just helps out.

I think of the Director of Football as a second assistant, for off the field matters.

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Second Season - July 2016

Plenty of issues to take care of during the close season.

Having qualified for the Champions' League, not only do I need to continue developing my squad along my Club DNA lines, I have to try to get them ready for top European competition.

Outstanding issues I'll be covering here:

- Role & Position DNA;

- Transfer dealings;

- Staff changes;

- Joe Powell update;

- Future tactical developments.

Positional DNA

I'll cover this first as it leads into my Transfer dealings.

Any attributes I mention here for Role & Position DNA are over and above Club DNA. Club DNA is the common theme running through all of my players, whereas Role & Position DNA is specific in relation to the player's role.

Note - the attributes I mention here are only what I value for this particular save and for what I want from my players. In different saves I could quite easily look at different DNA (both Club and Role DNA), so don't read any of this as what will always be useful.

Club DNA - Aggression; Work Rate; Stamina; Decisions; First Touch.

NOTE - Club DNA only covers 5 attributes. However, I also value a highly professional and determined squad, to encourage better training and match performance. I should perhaps update the Club DNA section to reflect this.

1) Goalkeeper - One v Ones; Reflexes; Handling. Decisions and (to a lesser extent) First Touch are the only Club DNA I pay attention to.

2) Fullbacks / Wingbacks (support) - Pace; Passing; Teamwork, Tackling.

3) Fullbacks / Wingbacks (attack) - Crossing; Off the Ball; Pace; Decisions.

(Note - Fullbacks slightly re-assessed from post #81).

4) Central Defenders - Pace, Anticipation, Positioning, Tackling, Marking, Strength. Bravery should also be high so that the defender won't shy away from challenges. I also want at least one central defender with decent Passing ability and (ideally) Vision in case I choose to play with a Ball Playing Defender at some point.

5) Anchor Man / CM(D) - Marking, Tackling, Positioning, Strength, Bravery.

6) AP(S) - Passing; Vision; Team Work; Composure. I also require this player to be able to play as an industrious all-round midfielder so Club DNA is extremely important to me here. Think Box to Box Midfielder / Advanced Playmaker rolled into one (not a Roaming Playmaker).

7) CM(A) / AM(S) - Flair; Passing; Vision; Off the Ball; Composure; Technique.

8) Raumdeuter - Finishing; Composure; Anticipation; Off the Ball; Technique. This player will also play as an Inside Forward, so Dribbling ability is required.

9) Winger (Support) / WM(S) - Team Work; Passing; Technique; Off the Ball; Crossing. Dribbling will also be useful if I persist with the "Winger" role, however future tactical developments may see me use a WM(S) instead.

10) Striker - Off the Ball, Anticipation, Composure, Passing, Dribbling, Finishing. I want well-rounded strikers, not just a False 9 so that I can change roles if needed.

Transfers

Transfers Out:

vyb71h.png

Dmitri Payet was disappointing for me last season, probably because the roles and positions I've chosen don't really suit him. On the odd occasion I used a Trequartista at AMC he shone, and he did ok as an Inside Forward, but he doesn't fit into my DNA requirements either. Man Utd came in with a decent offer for him, which I negotiated up to £40m including add ons. He was valued at £27.5m so decent enough.

Andy Carroll fits neither my chosen style of play nor my role requirements. He is also difficult to manage (he spent half the season upset with me because I sold Winston Reid and didn't consider my signings good enough) and is injury prone. I transfer listed him to drum up business with a value above what the game was applying (£20m vs £15m) and Leicester, who qualified for the Europa League, are welcome to him.

Sam Byram performed really well for me last season as a Winger (AMR), and I'm sorry to see him go. However his Aggression isn't up to standard, and he asked to leave once Man City came in for him with a low bid that unsettled him. I negotiated City up to about £20m with add ons, which isn't at all bad for someone valued at just £7.5m.

Adrian I fully expected to become more difficult to manage with the arrival of Rulli, as he'd expect plenty of game time. He'd never be happy as a back up 'keeper, so he was transfer listed and sold to Roma. £5m is probably on the low side, but Roma aren't overly rich and nobody else was interested. I took what I could, happy that I have avoided a management issue.

I wanted to sell Stephen Hendrie, as I don't rate his potential, but only loan offers materialised following his transfer listing. Perhaps he'll come back worth more at the end of the season and I'll sell him for more then :p.

Transfers In:

23jo07s.png

Rico Henry is a great prospect for left back. I'll keep him in the senior squad where he'll get the odd game, although he'll mainly play in the Reserves for now. Needs Tutoring, great potential and adds to my Home Grown requirements. Bought him for £2m and he's already valued at £3m. He'll develop into my DNA.

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Andrija Zivkovic will slot straight into the first team as my replacement for Lanzini. Superstar in the making and can play in a variety of positions and roles. An absolute bargain of a free signing and £12.5k a week is nothing. He doesn't need Tutoring and fully matches up to my DNA needs.

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Rulli I've already detailed above in post #91.

Vincent Aboubakar is someone I've long admired in the game, but never had at my club. My original intention here was to bring in a hot prospect young player who already has decent attributes as backup to Klaassen, but either clubs wanted huge transfer fees or players would fail work permits. My only "Key Player" by squad status (Payet) had left, so I decided to splash out for a marquee signing. This may give me management issues down the road with Klaassen and game time, but so long as I am aware of that possibility and am prepared to deal with it (one way or another), I'll manage that down the road. Aboubakar wasn't cheap (£15m to Porto plus the same again to buy out the third party ownership) and at £90k a week stays just within my wage structure. He can also be used as a Tutor straight away, and play a number of different striker roles.

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Julian Brandt is a little bit of a punt. I was in need of a couple of wide men and he was transfer listed by Leverkusen for £15m (I paid £10m up front + £5m over 12 months). He needs a lot of work, but has bags of potential. His personality is letting him down a bit so needs immediate Tutoring (Aboubakar ftw) but if we can get over that hurdle he'll develop into a world class IF / Raumdeuter. I also like his PPMs.

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And finally, my right wing solution, Petar Stojanovic. (And no he isn't one of the two nameless wingers I detailed in post #136, when looking at scout reports ;)). Another raw talent that I'll need to shape, but his starting attributes are already well developed and a good match up to DNA requirements. He needs Tutoring, but will slot straight into the first team. You'll probably notice he's actually a natural fullback, but I'll be playing him at MR / AMR as a Winger or Wide Midfielder. Fullbacks can make great wingers.

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Hopefully you can see that I've primarily targeted younger players who can slot straight into the first team; are DNA inclusive; can be tutored (if needed); and fit well within my wage structure. With luck I can enhance my club's reputation over the next couple of seasons sufficiently to be able to fend off attraction from other clubs, but even if their heads do get turned, I should be able to realise a healthy profit.

Staff Changes

I've brought in a few new faces so that all coaching areas for all squads are now covered by at least 4 star coaches, which is fine. I'll be adding a few more scouts soon as well as apparently I am now allowed up to 20(!).

I'll only mention 2 staff signings for now, as one is very important while the other shows a little creativity:

New Assistant Manager - Giuseppe Baresi. I had to change my AM as he just wasn't up to scratch. Baresi has everything I look for in an AM - great coaching skills, good judgement of ability & potential and a fantastic personality.

azfok.png

I was in need of an Attacking Coach for both my U18s and my Senior Squad. I had originally planned to sign Peter Beardsley for my Seniors, but when I started negotiating with him, his initial offer was for U21s coach. As my U21s staff will coach both my seniors and U18s (and U21s of course), I signed him as an U21s coach, thus saving me the bother of finding 2 new coaches. Two coaches for the price of one :). A great personality as well.

fy1v75.png

Joe Powell

Joe is coming along ok. His second bout of Tutoring is finally paying off and he's developed a Professional personality.

He's stil developing a bit slowly for my liking, but he's spent most of the first year with low professionalism, being coached in decent (but not great) facilities by decent (but not great) coaches and without any first team experience.

He now has high professionalism, facilities are being improved, better coaches have been employed and I plan to give him a few games in the senior team this season. I'm hoping his development will start to take off, although his Aggression remains stubbornly low - and I'm concerned it won't see sufficient improvement to my standards. We'll see.

e64yva.png

Future Tactical Development

I've started thinking about how I can evolve my tactical style now that I am improving my squad.

Here's the thing - I don't like the 4-2-3-1 formation. There's nothing wrong with it, and it's giving me decent results when I use it, I'm just not a fan of that particular chalkboard formation. Personal preference, that's all.

I like the 4-1-2-3DM, so I'm thinking about changing the 4-2-3-1. If/when I do, it won't be to anything radically different, perhaps a simple change to a 4-4-1-1 which is essentially still a 4-2-3-1 with the two wingers slightly repositioned. Tactical settings will be changed as well - my wife likes Borussia Dortmund (as do I) so I quite like the idea of not exactly recreating their style, but at least taking some inspiration from it.

I don't have anything to show just yet, but will update when I'm happy with it.

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This is top stuff, herne. I already play FM in a very (scarily!) similar way to you, but I've still picked up a few ideas and things to try. For example, the thought never crossed my mind to check and see what personality my Head of Youth Development had, and how it might reflect on the youngsters we bring through. What do you reckon of this guy:

iAb4rQUl.png

His personality type is determined.

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@ Kevin -he's ok. Great judging attributes and decent coaching skills.

Personally I wouldn't employ him as he'll have questionable professionalism and quite low "Working with Youngsters". How have your newgens' personalities been?

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@ Kevin -he's ok. Great judging attributes and decent coaching skills.

Personally I wouldn't employ him as he'll have questionable professionalism and quite low "Working with Youngsters". How have your newgens' personalities been?

A bit of a mixed bag. a few Balanced, lots of Fairly this and Fairly that. A bit meh really.

Probably time for him to go. Luckily this chap is available:

Hs5gtj1l.png

It's a no-brainer.

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Think of "Man Management" for your senior squad as "Working with Youngsters" is for your youth teams. It helps with training.

Either of those two choices for AM would be great, assuming the rest of their attributes and personalities are ok.

Thank you. I'll pick the one with better motivation and determination for the team talks.

And some great signings you've made there. I remember a save i had in Porto FM15 where i trained Aboubakar to be a Raumdeuter on the left side. It was the best decision i made, he ripped teams apart with his pace, movement and agility and was easily the best scorer.

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herne79, what can you say regarding the use of 4132/4312 Narrow formations in a similar manner or are they suitable only for more cautious game?

I see no reason why either formation couldn't form the basis of an effective aggressive system, although as I'm sure you're aware you'll have to make certain the flanks are looked after. Rashidi has covered those formations extensively - check his Bust the Net FM tactics link in the How to Build a New Tactic sticky at the top of the forum. He isn't exactly shy when it comes to attacking ;).

Thank you. I'll pick the one with better motivation and determination for the team talks.

And some great signings you've made there. I remember a save i had in Porto FM15 where i trained Aboubakar to be a Raumdeuter on the left side. It was the best decision i made, he ripped teams apart with his pace, movement and agility and was easily the best scorer.

Interesting thought about Aboubakar :).

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Great thread! I'm currently in the middle of a save with Swansea trying to develop a club DNA after I was inspired by Cleons thread using Swansea. Its always helpful to continue to get inspiration from other threads. You gave me some more things to think about. Two questions for you:

1) One of the first youth intakes I had I noticed that a few of the players had an unfavorable personality, so I looked through my staff to find the weak link. It turned out the matching personality was my own! Is this a possibility that we pass our own possibility to the regens? It would make sense since the other coaches, etc do. Along with that, have you thought or done anything to improve your personality/ratings to positively impact the youth prospects?

2) I understand the importance of personality of coaches. Does that include senior coaches as well? Is it important for the senior coaches to have a good personality AND be a 4/5 star coach?

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I know I mentioned HOYD personality above, and having a decent personality for each member of staff isn't a bad idea, but try not to get too caught up in it all.

There are no guarantees that any newgen will get a good starting personality no matter what personalities your staff have, it just makes it a bit more likely. Aim for good personalities of course, just don't worry if you can't find any.

You can always Tutor newgens to get them a decent personality after all.

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Plus, if im not mistaken, if you have professional senior players, this can alter the personality of young (under the age of 23) without direct tutoring. Not sure of the extent of this but still worth bearing in mind.

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Very nice written, not too over-complicated which simplifies the reading. I was approaching my long-term saves in a similar fashion and I took one or two of your advice on board. Thanks.

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herne I love how you have decided on the Club DNA and then players have to fit that mould and have additional DNA stats for each player. Something I've always thought about but never really gone for it.

I just wonder, how did you decide on what Club DNA attributes would be required or did you just know?

The reason I ask is that I'm very different to you, I don't like to be too aggressive, I've always like my team to defend as an organised unit and difficult to break down, rather keeping their shape and protecting their zones as such. So I'd wonder how would you choose the best Club DNA attributes for that?

I'm trying to think of it and the attributes that probably stand out could be Positioning (don't want them to lose their shape), Concentration (again probably ties into keeping organised), Decisions (again for the previous two) and Stamina (I don't want tired legs causing the organisation to crumble). I would also add passing into my DNA for how I like the team to play with the ball, I like to keep the ball when we have it and would much rather see them pass the ball around than go gung ho as such and I guess first touch could also come into play with this style of play.

Would you say I'm thinking along the right lines on how to approach this? Or could I be very wrong?

Then I could use this with certain TI's which would complete the DNA on the Team as a whole (I haven't even thought about how to approach them yet or the formation and players, although I feel I could use the DNA style with most formations)

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herne I love how you have decided on the Club DNA and then players have to fit that mould and have additional DNA stats for each player. Something I've always thought about but never really gone for it.

I just wonder, how did you decide on what Club DNA attributes would be required or did you just know?

The reason I ask is that I'm very different to you, I don't like to be too aggressive, I've always like my team to defend as an organised unit and difficult to break down, rather keeping their shape and protecting their zones as such. So I'd wonder how would you choose the best Club DNA attributes for that?

I'm trying to think of it and the attributes that probably stand out could be Positioning (don't want them to lose their shape), Concentration (again probably ties into keeping organised), Decisions (again for the previous two) and Stamina (I don't want tired legs causing the organisation to crumble). I would also add passing into my DNA for how I like the team to play with the ball, I like to keep the ball when we have it and would much rather see them pass the ball around than go gung ho as such and I guess first touch could also come into play with this style of play.

Would you say I'm thinking along the right lines on how to approach this? Or could I be very wrong?

Then I could use this with certain TI's which would complete the DNA on the Team as a whole (I haven't even thought about how to approach them yet or the formation and players, although I feel I could use the DNA style with most formations)

No, I didn't "just know". I sat down and thought about what I want from my team and took it from there. For different saves I'll think differently.

I'd add though that if looking at overall Club DNA, pick attributes that will be useful for all players. For example, there's not much point having Finishing as part of Club DNA as not everyone will have use for that. Similarly, strikers aren't going get much use out of defensive attributes such as Tackling or Marking.

Have a think about what style of football you want to play, both in defence and in possession. It sounds like you want to be fairly passive in defence without much pressing, preferring to keep a structured shape, and cool & calm in possession, knocking the ball about almost tiki taka style. You're certainly thinking along the right lines, mental attributes can be very important :).

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No, I didn't "just know". I sat down and thought about what I want from my team and took it from there. For different saves I'll think differently.

I'd add though that if looking at overall Club DNA, pick attributes that will be useful for all players. For example, there's not much point having Finishing as part of Club DNA as not everyone will have use for that. Similarly, strikers aren't going get much use out of defensive attributes such as Tackling or Marking.

Have a think about what style of football you want to play, both in defence and in possession. It sounds like you want to be fairly passive in defence without much pressing, preferring to keep a structured shape, and cool & calm in possession, knocking the ball about almost tiki taka style. You're certainly thinking along the right lines, mental attributes can be very important :).

Thanks herne!

I will probably have a proper sit down at the weekend and think about it. You did pretty much describe how I want to set up the side pretty well in both defence and possession, I see it as very similar to how I remember almost Italy defending as a structured unit that was impossible to break down, while with the ball a bit more like Spain to a certain extent during their successful years. Whether it will work is another question though, but I can only find out if I try it I guess!

I'll have to admit I've never thought about the attributes in quite so much detail before or the players personalities and I think that is something that could help me improve.

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I can recommend writing it Down on a piece of paper.... Whether it's tactical or team DNA or player attributes..... Write it or Draw it so you understand the meaning and then all the great guides from Rashidi, Cleon and Herne will begin to make sense :)

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Well herne, I've stuck to the save I have and taken the approach by assessing the players I have, it means come the end of the season I could see quite a few changes as a fair few positions don't quite fulfill everything I need in the players and it has already seen me scrap my 442. I need my players to be more disciplined and I feel in a 442 it isn't going to quite satisfy my defensive requirements as I feel it's much easier to see players pulled out of position.

Now I've changed to a 41221 (or 433 with a DM) I don't have a suitable runner from CM at the moment which is something I see as a priority but this is how we are currently lined up

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I see the back four and the Anchor as the perfect roles to help defend sensibly although I felt it would be good to have the right back overlapping the IF on the right to provide some width. The CM at the moment is on Support, I honestly don't have anyone suitable to play as CM/A or B2B which is one player I would like to bring in just to give someone to Overlap the F9, however if I have to use another player in the ST position the role will probably change to a DLF as no one else can really play that role quite well.

Thanks herne for this article, as I feel a little more like I know what to look like and hopefully, this could see a change in my consistency!

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Good luck :).

Just remember to be patient. Sometimes your players aren't suitable for the tactical system you ultimately want, so adapt certain aspects for the short term. Then change and grow your playing staff over time so that you become capable of using your chosen playing style.

It's taken me the best part of two seasons, and I still have one or two players I'm looking to change.

If I get time over the weekend I'll be doing another update.

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Good luck :).

Just remember to be patient. Sometimes your players aren't suitable for the tactical system you ultimately want, so adapt certain aspects for the short term. Then change and grow your playing staff over time so that you become capable of using your chosen playing style.

It's taken me the best part of two seasons, and I still have one or two players I'm looking to change.

If I get time over the weekend I'll be doing another update.

Thanks, yeah I don't expect to have everything I need, like a backup or first team F9 to push McGoldrick, also I feel a CB, LB and CM especially jump out as posisitions to gradually improve although I have players fairly comfortable. Most adapting I seem to need to do is change the CM to support although I would prefer attack and also changing F9 to DLF depending who plays, also I imagine if Skuse can't play I wouldn't be able to use an Anchor. But it's definitely a start!

I look forward to the next update!

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Excellent thread Herne :thup:

One question post no5

If you assistant coach in the first day of pre-season tells you that your current players have forged an extremely strong understanding , what you would do ?

Tactical (for general training ) immediately ?

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Excellent thread Herne :thup:

One question post no5

If you assistant coach in the first day of pre-season tells you that your current players have forged an extremely strong understanding , what you would do ?

Tactical (for general training ) immediately ?

Yeh, there's not much benefit in defining Team Cohesion for general training if your team already have a strong understanding. Good point.

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Great thread! I really like how you are argumenting your choices and decisions. Looking forward to the next bit!

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I'll be doing a proper update soon (snowed under atm), but thought the following two messages from the Board were quite amusing.

For context, we're about to relocate to Wembley while we increase capacity at the Olympic Stadium and the Board decided to ask me if I thought it a good idea to buy the place (which I do):

30u3cw4.png

jgmpo7.png

So apparently we're buying Wembley. :eek:

Interested to see which stadium we actually buy (must be a glitch, although fun if real !).

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That's some exciting news!!

I'm looking forward to read your next update. It's an awesome thread and i've been learning a lot from it.

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Really Back to Basics

Haven't updated for a little while (sorry!), so lots to get through.

Joe Powell

As a reminder, here's Joe at the start of the game:

2d0gy6w.png

And here he is after two full seasons of development and tutoring:

2czpjs.png

Coming along pretty nicely, and he made his first team debut last season. However, Aggression hasn't budged an inch and I'm not convinced it'll ever move sufficiently. I'll keep plugging away with him, giving him some first team matches and U21 matches when he isn't involved with the first team, so we'll see.

You'll also notice some PPMs. I'll cover this for all positions next, as PPMs are now forming a very important part of where I am heading tactically (which I'll cover after PPMs).

Player Preferred Moves (PPMs)

PPMs are player traits or "tendencies". They are not a stone cold guarantee of how a player will always behave, but rather how a player may decide to act given a certain set of circumstances. So for example, a player with the PPM "Cuts Inside" may decide to make that move slightly more frequently than a similar player who doesn't have that PPM. Equally, setting a role with a similar set PI (such as an Inside Forward) that instructs the player to "Cut Inside", the player with the PPM may again make that move on a more regular basis than the player without the PPM.

PPMs can therefore be quite a powerful tool in a player's armoury. However PPMs, especially when combined with both your team tactical settings and your set player roles, duties and PIs, can lead to unwanted player actions. The Inside Forward above is probably ok to have the PPM as that's what you want an IF to be doing, especially if you have taken the time to set the rest of your team up to give him the space to exploit.

But how about (for example) a Fullback (or Wingback) with the PPM "Gets Forward Whenever Possible" in combination with a high risk mentality, an attack duty and the default set PI of "Get Further Forward"? That's going to give you a very forward thinking fullback which could leave your flank dangerously exposed, especially to quick counter attacks (which the AI can be very good at).

When setting up a tactical system, it's very important to read through and understand these player traits and default set PIs for positional roles / duties, and how they'll combine with your other tactical settings.

Now, before I get onto the PPMs I've chosen for my players, it's important to understand where I am headed with my tactical system. In a nutshell, and as an experiment, I've decided to ditch (as far as possible) tactical settings and rely instead on my players' own intelligence to decide when to do things. I'll go into this in detail below, but essentially I'm looking to set up my team with neutral tactical settings and so let my players take the lead in deciding how to play without me telling them what to do.

Obviously I have to pick mentality, team shape, roles and duties, but that's pretty much all I'm doing - and keeping those settings I have to pick as neutral as possible. To my mind, I've spent an awful lot of time, effort and (virtual) money developing my squad into my chosen DNA, so lets see how that DNA can perform.

As I said, it's an experiment. I've never played this way before, so I'm interested to see how it goes (I started towards the end of the second season).

Anyway, PPMs:

Goalkeeper - Very limited options here, and not something I've yet bothered with. There is one interesting PPM - "Uses Long Throw to Start Counter Attacks" which I'll start Rulli training on once he's finished his current Tutoring session (you can't tutor and learn a PPM at the same time). Interestingly I can only find one other Goalie in my database with this PPM, which is Manuel Neuer. So if it's good enough for him...

Note - always make sure the player you train a PPM into actually has relevant attributes in order to successfully use the PPM. It's pretty pointless asking some to "Dribble More" (for example) if their Dribbling attribute is poor or (as in this PPM) my GK has low Throwing ability (Rulli has 15 so he's fine).

Central Defenders - Nothing. All I want from my CDs are to do a basic job and not just hoof the ball long all the time. If I wanted one to try some longer passes, I could set him as a Ball Playing Defender or, perhaps use the PPM to Try Long Range Passes which is actually an interesting thought as one of my players (Mammana) is capable of this. Perhaps one for the future. IN terms of defensive PPMs such as Mark Tighter or Tackle harder, I 'd rather my player decides when to do this rather than me telling him to.

Fullbacks - I'm using the generic term here to cover any player in the "fullback" position, not just the role. "Gets Forward Whenever Possible" is the PPM I want here, as I may not use a role with that trait as a set PI. To illustrate - the Wingback (support) role/duty does have that as a set PI, whereas the Fullback (support) role does not.

Defending Midfielder - This is a midfield destroyer, not a playmaker. I prioritise defensive attributes here so the PPM "Plays Short Simple Passes" ties in nicely. ie., I want him to win the ball and lay it off to someone close by. His attributes will take care of his defensive work, so no need to overload him with more defensive PPMs.

Supporting Midfielder - I want this player fulfilling multiple roles. At times he'll be a playmaker, other times he'll get forward to support the attack, others he'll be back helping out with defensive duties. So I'm not going to give him a PPM to help him get forward more often as he needs to balance defending, supporting and attacking. But I will give him some traits to help with his playmaking "role". I could simply define him as a Playmaker (perhaps a DLP) but this goes against my neutral role selection. "Dictates Tempo", "Comes Deep to Get Ball", "Looks for Pass Rather than Attempting to Score" can all be useful here.

Attacking Midfielder - This player needs to get forward to directly influence the attack, both in terms of a goal threat and as a technical passer. Zivkovic is my main man here, so I'll just link his current PPMs:

30j4dup.png

6 is quite a lot, and he came with 4 when I signed him. I've added "Gets Forward" and "Plays One-Twos". "Cuts Inside" is now largely irrelevant as I don't play him on the wing.

That leaves three positions to account for (AML/R and Striker) which is where things get a little more complex, as none of those positions come with "neutral" player roles. All roles have several default PIs, so I either need to move players back to the ML/R positions (which I don't want to do) to take advantage of the neutral Wide Midfielder role, or carefully balance role selection with PPMs.

Thus:

AML: Inside Forward / Raumdeuter - Very different roles and I want my player here (Julian Brandt) to be able to play both. Brandt arrived with Cuts Inside and Plays One-Twos which is fine. Adding in additional PPMs such as Dribble More or Move Into Channels may cause conflicting traits in either role, so default PIs can take the lead.

AMR: Winger - Again, default PIs can take the lead and no need for additional PPMs. "Switch Ball to Opposite Flank" could be an interesting one.

Striker - "Moves Into Channels" is good to help create space. "Plays One-Twos" can also help the interaction with the AML and Attacking Midfielder. Again, there is no "neutral" role for this position, so everything needs to be carefully balanced with the defined role.

Tactical System - Really Back to Basics

I'm using a play on the thread title here just to show what I'm up to. As I said above, this is something I am experimenting with (so far successfully) to see how far I can push my Club (and Positional) DNA.

This is where I'm currently at:

xnbsrd.png

2evqofp.png

As far as possible, I've aimed for "neutral" tactical settings and so rely on (or put more emphasis on) my player's own intelligence to decide when to do things. This is why I say I'm really back to basics as I'm trying to use as few tactical settings as possible.

So:

Standard Mentality - "Carefully balances risk and reward". Good, I'm not forcing my players to make risky decisions. They can decide for themselves if they want to make fast or slow passes, or press more, or spread the play wider etc rather than me telling them to. Of course as Manager I can always influence this if I feel I need to as matches unfold, but that's an exception, not the rule. All I'll do is manage the risk during matches.

Flexible Team Shape -

xda3ol.png

"The team will aim to find a balance" pretty much says it all for what I am trying to achieve.

Team Instructions - Just the one: "Be More Expressive". This is my "pizazz" as I put it earlier. Helps my players use their intelligence and adds some creative freedom.

Player Roles and Duties

Remember to read these in conjunction with PPMs.

GK / Central Defenders - Not much to say.

Fullback (support) - If i notice my crossing is particularly poor, I'll tell these players to cross less.

Defensive Midfielder (defend) - Nothing fancy, just provides a shield in front of the defence and Aggression helps close down the opposition.

Central Midfielder (support) - No set PIs for this position, so total reliance on player intelligence and PPMs. I could have used a playmaker role here, but that would force players to look to pass to him and that isn't what I'm after here. So with his PPMs and attributes, he becomes a pseudo-playmaker as well as helping out defensively and offensively. A real jack of all trades.

Central Midfielder (attack) - A creative goal threat and runner from deep. Placed on the same side as the Winger (support) to take advantage of the stretched play (and thus space) created by the Winger when in possession.

Winger (support) - Stretches play on his side of the pitch and provides a different attacking option.

Inside Forward (support) / Raumdeuter - Both roles work well and offer different options. The IF role tends to be my starting option, but I'll change this if I think I need either a more potent goal threat and/or dribbling isn't working.

Complete Forward (support) - Again a kind of jack of all trades role. He'll drop deep, run with the ball, hold the ball up, make passes and of course score.

That's it. I'm pleased with how this has been playing (I'm current European and Premier League champion) and just beat Barcelona 3-1 in the Super Cup.

The only tactical tweaks I make during matches tend to be the occasional mentality change to manage risk, the odd defensive line move or the IF to Raumdeuter switch.

Oh and Cresswell at left back doesn't have the PPM to get forward often, so when I play him I change to the wingback (support) role to take advantage of the similar set PI.

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The tactical part is very interesting, and in my opinion, more useful to average readers than your old attempts with defensive mentality etc. because it shows that even the simplest approach can work (with proper squad development), paired with very few tweaks during a match. That's something many people easily forget.

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Standard/Flexible?? Interesting choices on formation, mate. With the defense and the pace you have up top, I would've played a Counterattacking game and pushed the wingers back to the MLR strata. Hope for the best...

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A single TI .... You have my attention :)

Would you ever elect to have no PIs as well as no TIs (or minimal) ...or at least no additional PIs to the roles selected.

.... Therefore relying solely on PPMs?

I feel an FMT save coming on ;)

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I play this way with Ajax. 4-1-4-1, and the only TI I use is Low Crosses. I make adjustments during the match, but usually only defensive line or mentality. Late in the game do the usual Defensive/Waste Time/Retain Possession stuff.

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Herne79, you said you were going to rely on players' decision and wanted more creativity. Why didn't you choose (Very) Fluid Shape?

He said he wanted a neutral, balanced starting point and then leave to players to decide when to get more expressive and when more conservative.

Playing with very fluid would be far from neutral, which is the point of his experiment if I understood correctly.

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He said he wanted a neutral, balanced starting point and then leave to players to decide when to get more expressive and when more conservative.

Playing with very fluid would be far from neutral, which is the point of his experiment if I understood correctly.

Thank you. I think there is a certain amount of sense.

Also interested in how tactics adapts to stronger opponents and what alterations help to break the intense defense.

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herne thanks for this update! I've never thought about that but it makes perfect sense and it's a very good idea to use more generic roles and give them PPM so they can decide when it's best to use them.

I like the idea of maybe giving some playmaking PPM's to Mammana, he is capable of that and since Sven Bender it's no good for that, it could be a nice option.

Did Powell only played in your youth team during that development period? He developed quite nicely! Unfortunately he doesnt fit your DNA, his aggression didn't raise a bit and i doubt it will raise, i think it's a tough attribute to improve.

I like your team and congrats for the Premier League tittle! Wil be waiting for more updates :)

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herne thanks for this update! I've never thought about that but it makes perfect sense and it's a very good idea to use more generic roles and give them PPM so they can decide when it's best to use them.

I like the idea of maybe giving some playmaking PPM's to Mammana, he is capable of that and since Sven Bender it's no good for that, it could be a nice option.

Did Powell only played in your youth team during that development period? He develop quite nicely! Unfortunately he doesnt fit your DNA, his aggression didn't raise a bit and i doubt it will raise, i think it's a tough attribute to improve.

I like your team and congrats for the Premier League tittle! Wil be waiting for more updates :)

I think aggression and bravery as well as team work can hardly improve. :(

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Did Powell only played in your youth team during that development period? He developed quite nicely! Unfortunately he doesnt fit your DNA, his aggression didn't raise a bit and i doubt it will raise, i think it's a tough attribute to improve.

He had a few games in the senior team (not many), so mainly played in the U18s and U21s.

In terms of his Aggression attribute, I'm really now running his training as almost a test bed just to see if anything will change. After 2 years of 6 month rotational training between 2 roles that specifically targets Aggression, it hasn't budged. I'm sure it will never get to the level I want for my Club DNA, so now I just want to see if it will improve at all. I doubt it.

When i suggest my coach to train players' ppm ,they usually they cant do that blah blah blah.....

Is it best to ignore those advice?

I ignore coaches. For some of my PPM training I was told the coach didn't think the player was capable and yet the player successfully trained the PPM.

I think aggression and bravery as well as team work can hardly improve. :(

Bravery can be slow - it's "only" improved from 10 to 11 in my case study in 2 years. Team Work can improve faster through a combination of General Training and Personal Training.

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I ignore coaches. For some of my PPM training I was told the coach didn't think the player was capable and yet the player successfully trained the PPM.

Bravery can be slow - it's "only" improved from 10 to 11 in my case study in 2 years. Team Work can improve faster through a combination of General Training and Personal Training.

Useless coaches :mad: lol

Do coaches' attributes affect PPM training?

And is it better to train PPM before 23-years old? after 23, it would be harder to train?

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