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If at first you don't succeed, blame the game and try again - A San Marino Youth Challenge 2.0

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We've made more (and better) transfers than the AI managed San Giovanni did, and now we've done better in Europe than them, too. If there's no Youth Recruitment upgrade available in a couple years, that'll be pretty damning evidence.

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1 hour ago, Jupjamie said:

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This lark is much easier when you can buy players ;) 

Gone to the dark side. :eek:

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Just now, Keano16 said:

Gone to the dark side. :eek:

It hurts, but it's purely for research purposes ;) 

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Not only did we make it to the Europa Groups, but we won a f***ing game, away in Germany. Still no option to upgrade Youth Recruitment. I'll carry out the last two years of this just for consistency, but it's pretty obvious to me now what the findings are going to be.

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21 hours ago, Ceching You Out said:

Like cutting open a cadaver of a loved one. For science!

I appreciate the implicit suggestion that there just might not be another valid reason to do this. :lol:

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3 players bought in who instantly become some of the best at the club (including a youth player who left us a couple months prior), and a second appearance in a row in the Europa Groups. Is there the option to upgrade Youth Recruitment? What do you think :rolleyes:

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1 hour ago, ManUtd1 said:

I appreciate the implicit suggestion that there just might not be another valid reason to do this. :lol:

Never know how many budding psychopaths may be reading; this is the internet after all!

 

5 minutes ago, Jupjamie said:

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3 players bought in who instantly become some of the best at the club (including a youth player who left us a couple months prior), and a second appearance in a row in the Europa Groups. Is there the option to upgrade Youth Recruitment? What do you think :rolleyes:

I wouldn't call it quits quite yet, but the evidence is certainly mounting. I've been trying to think of ways the AI's behavior may differ once they take control; FM isn't known to penalize the human player to maintain parity. What could it be though?

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Just now, Ceching You Out said:

Never know how many budding psychopaths may be reading; this is the internet after all!

 

I wouldn't call it quits quite yet, but the evidence is certainly mounting. I've been trying to think of ways the AI's behavior may differ once they take control; FM isn't known to penalize the human player to maintain parity. What could it be though?

Even though I'm insanely bored by this point, I'm going up to the same point that I simmed to in the AI managed save just so time can be ruled out as a factor. I'm also trying to think of things that the AI do differently, but no dice so far.

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Have you spoken to the board about making bring youth through as a Philosophy? 

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23 minutes ago, Pompeyboyz said:

Have you spoken to the board about making bring youth through as a Philosophy? 

I have, it's actually been a philosophy throughout the entire save. Hasn't seemed to change anything :( 

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10 minutes ago, Jupjamie said:

I have, it's actually been a philosophy throughout the entire save. Hasn't seemed to change anything :( 

Bugger :(

 

Just as a thought....probably more for your testing rather than here, what about the buy youth for the team philosophy rather than bring youth through??

 

If you are buying young players from other teams/nations, the board might want to invest in their own youth more??

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Do you have any scouts? It's a long shot, but maybe you need them to expand the youth recruitment network - after all, somebody needs to watch all those players from other youth setups.

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19 minutes ago, Pompeyboyz said:

Bugger :(

 

Just as a thought....probably more for your testing rather than here, what about the buy youth for the team philosophy rather than bring youth through??

 

If you are buying young players from other teams/nations, the board might want to invest in their own youth more??

If the bring youth through philosophy - which youth recruitment directly impacts - doesn't change anything, I'm sceptical that buying youth players will change anything :( 

11 minutes ago, endtime said:

Do you have any scouts? It's a long shot, but maybe you need them to expand the youth recruitment network - after all, somebody needs to watch all those players from other youth setups.

Good idea, but I actually have four of them. I wonder whether the AI managed teams set up their staff differently? It's worth a look, thank you for the idea! :) 

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28 minutes ago, Jupjamie said:

If the bring youth through philosophy - which youth recruitment directly impacts - doesn't change anything, I'm sceptical that buying youth players will change anything :( 

To quote Sherlock Holmes, once you have removed all that is possible, what ever is left...no matter how improbable, must be the answer ;)

 

But to be fair, with what you have tested so far.....the most probable thing is AI having some sort of hard coding advantage..... 

Which brings my next question...have you raised a bug thread for this, or plan to once you have done your research??

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11 minutes ago, Pompeyboyz said:

To quote Sherlock Holmes, once you have removed all that is possible, what ever is left...no matter how improbable, must be the answer ;)

 

But to be fair, with what you have tested so far.....the most probable thing is AI having some sort of hard coding advantage..... 

Which brings my next question...have you raised a bug thread for this, or plan to once you have done your research??

I haven't yet, no, but it's a good idea. I'll start one once I've wrapped up every possible thing to test. I love that Sherlock Holmes quote :D 

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Human Controlled San Giovanni:

In Europe: Lost in the Europa League 3rd round once, lost in the Europa League playoff once, made the Europa League groups three times (3 points, 1 point, 1 point).

We also signed a lot of players, all foreign, most of whom became some of the best players at the club.

Finances by 2105: 4.5m

Youth Recruitment: No option to upgrade.

 

AI Controlled San Giovanni:

In Europe: Lost in the CL Second Qualifying Round twice, lost in the Europa League Playoff three times - never made the groups.

Signed less players than we did, and not quite as good as our ones, either.

Finances by 2105: -269k.

Youth Recruitment: Upgraded from Limited to Basic.

 

So: When I was managing San Giovanni from 2100-2105, they did unquestionably far better in Europe, had far better finances and made more - and better - signings than the AI. Despite performing far worse on every level, the AI San Giovanni were ones who were able to upgrade Youth Recruitment.

 

That's pretty damning evidence that the AI have a hardcoded advantage in terms of Youth Recruitment.

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Think it is defo calling for a bug raised....

once you eliminate the impossible ;)

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Was there a single manager at San Giovanni when you simmed? Did you receive any interview/job offers when you played it through?

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20 minutes ago, Ceching You Out said:

Was there a single manager at San Giovanni when you simmed? Did you receive any interview/job offers when you played it through?

Just one manager, a Mr Giovanni Foderaro:

 

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I didn't receive any job interviews/offers that I know of, although that's probably because A: I deactivated the Italian Leagues to make things run faster, meaning the only league active was the San Marino League with just 15 teams, and B: I was on holiday for pretty much the entire time, so that may interfere with getting any offers.

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Could it be linked to how extensive a scouting range you have? That's the only thing I can think of

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5 minutes ago, tomas1 said:

Could it be linked to how extensive a scouting range you have? That's the only thing I can think of

It's a good suggestion, but we were able to scout the entire world at San Giovanni, and nothing :( 

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I've been reading this epic adventure over last few days, it's been some read.  Gentile turned into a beast.  Amazed you stuck it at so long through all the ups and downs.  As I was reading I was sure you'd make it into the main draw of the Champions League.  The way the leagues reputation bounced away must have been incredibly frustrating nearly as much as those long waits for a CB.

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1 hour ago, argento said:

I've been reading this epic adventure over last few days, it's been some read.  Gentile turned into a beast.  Amazed you stuck it at so long through all the ups and downs.  As I was reading I was sure you'd make it into the main draw of the Champions League.  The way the leagues reputation bounced away must have been incredibly frustrating nearly as much as those long waits for a CB.

Thanks, Argento! Playing it back, I really can't remember why I carried on for so long :lol: 

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16 hours ago, Jupjamie said:

Just one manager, a Mr Giovanni Foderaro:

 

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I didn't receive any job interviews/offers that I know of, although that's probably because A: I deactivated the Italian Leagues to make things run faster, meaning the only league active was the San Marino League with just 15 teams, and B: I was on holiday for pretty much the entire time, so that may interfere with getting any offers.

Ahh, well that may nip my budding idea. I was speculating that managerial "ambition" had an impact -- I always turn down job interviews while the AI manager likely wouldn't. Still trying to think of human manager behaviors that would deviate from our AI counterparts.

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51 minutes ago, Ceching You Out said:

Ahh, well that may nip my budding idea. I was speculating that managerial "ambition" had an impact -- I always turn down job interviews while the AI manager likely wouldn't. Still trying to think of human manager behaviors that would deviate from our AI counterparts.

I'm trying to think of anything too, but so far nothing's coming to mind :seagull:

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