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FM17 Player Profiles: Let's discuss player attributes


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I'd like to discuss the attributes of players who are expected to upgraded/downgraded dramatically.

Let's start with Kelechi Iheanacho.

FM16 profile:

1hCR8aWH.png

I think his finishing, technique and flair will be increased dramatically in the next game.

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Another one is Alex Iwobi.

His profile in FM16:

1mCEPr5r.png

His overall CA is in need of upgrade, especially off the ball, acceleration & pace, anticipation, decisions, composure.

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Ousmane Dembele had an amazing season, scored 12 goals, made 5 assists in 26 appearances.

FM16 profile:

1mDTKOk5.png

Attributes need to be upgraded: finishing, teamwork, work rate, anticipation, composure, decisions, determination, passing

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I am very well aware of the forum you mentioned but since there are not bugs, I created the topic here. The idea is to speak the attributes of players in the next version of FM. So the target is not FM16. If a moderator still believes that here is not the right place for this topic, they can move the topic to another forum, it is okay.

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Being perfectly honest it doesn't appear that anyone else cares as there are plenty who have viewed this thread without reply & as you're not qualifying your reasoning of selecting attributes for an increase it's not worth bothering the research team.

It's also very easy to pick out former youth players who've broken into the senior ranks as players who might need a CA increase.

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What is the problem of sharing opinions even no one replies!? Is there a rule that every topic needs to be replied? Whether the research team care or not, their loss. We will see whether these guys will be upgraded as I mentioned above or not. It is very clear that these players need to be upgraded in the next version of the game. Who can disagree? Just take a look to Kelechi Iheanacho. His finishing, decisions, flair, teamwork are too low for a player who scored 8 goals in 26 apps with only 7 starts. Isn't that a proof?

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What is the problem of sharing opinions even no one replies!? Is there a rule that every topic needs to be replied? Whether the research team care or not, their loss. We will see whether these guys will be upgraded as I mentioned above or not. It is very clear that these players need to be upgraded in the next version of the game. Who can disagree? Just take a look to Kelechi Iheanacho. His finishing, decisions, flair, teamwork are too low for a player who scored 8 goals in 26 apps with only 7 starts. Isn't that a proof?

It's not proof for those stats. Why those stats? Why not his off the ball, anticipation, work rate and his consistency? Bear in mind this is a very lazy, at-a-glance, thought on what could help shape him better as an impact sub just to encourage the debate.

There's more than one way to get a desired outcome. Iheanacho might well just be benefiting from some good instincts coupled with being fresher when he comes on. That doesn't necessarily mean he's a great, leading the line, week-in, week-out kind of player which the attribute suggestions you make could push him more towards being. Make use of the huge array of attributes to try visualise how envisage a player doing what they do on the pitch. I can't speak for all researchers, but the discussion about player attributes is one of the more enjoyable areas for me. The issue is more often than not people tend to look at the same few attributes to improve players.

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I agree with the attributes that need a buff for Iwobi. I guess you'd want a bit first team football from him before committing to huge increases, but certainly his composure is the stand-out quality of his game by my reckoning. He's as cool as ice in a way that completely belies his youth and inexperience. Has great instincts in the final third and almost never makes rash decisions.

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It's not proof for those stats. Why those stats? Why not his off the ball, anticipation, work rate and his consistency? Bear in mind this is a very lazy, at-a-glance, thought on what could help shape him better as an impact sub just to encourage the debate.

There's more than one way to get a desired outcome. Iheanacho might well just be benefiting from some good instincts coupled with being fresher when he comes on. That doesn't necessarily mean he's a great, leading the line, week-in, week-out kind of player which the attribute suggestions you make could push him more towards being. Make use of the huge array of attributes to try visualise how envisage a player doing what they do on the pitch. I can't speak for all researchers, but the discussion about player attributes is one of the more enjoyable areas for me. The issue is more often than not people tend to look at the same few attributes to improve players.

I have watched almost all matches of Iheneacho during this season, so I have made a conclusion like above. I think Manchester City researches will do the similar changes in the next game. Anyway, we will see in the next game whether I am right or not. Same for the others.

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So this will just be a list of kids under 21 who had a decent season?

no, the player can be older than 21 and also had a disappointing season. "The list of players who are in need of major upgrade or downgrade."

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Threads based on opinions about attributes rarely end well. If you have issues with specific players/stats then take it up with the relevant researcher.

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How do the researchers differentiate between a player "being in form", "Being over/under rated by the SI team" or just being "utilized perfectly or not". ie Leicester.

Say for example,

Depay, is he now vastly reduced in attributes or will this drop be considered down to new team/town/life/manager over a drop in talent?

Or say Ashley Young, now considered a less likely winger as he's been played more often than not at FB by LVG?

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How do the researchers differentiate between a player "being in form", "Being over/under rated by the SI team" or just being "utilized perfectly or not". ie Leicester.

Say for example,

Depay, is he now vastly reduced in attributes or will this drop be considered down to new team/town/life/manager over a drop in talent?

Or say Ashley Young, now considered a less likely winger as he's been played more often than not at FB by LVG?

It's a good question, but hard to answer.

Obviously we're encouraged to not have big knee-jerk reactions.

Depay could have his adaptability & consistency reduced and that alone could have a desirable outcome. It can reflect a player struggling with a big change and not being consistent. It's not a particularly obvious solution and most people won't notice it immediately in the sense that he can still have good games but if you're watching the games you'd notice he's not quite as effective as perhaps you'd be expecting. Sometimes this goes massively unnoticed in FM.

For a player becoming more used in another position, that's quite an easy one to do as we can change positions of players and add more to their sphere of familiarity. Aside from common sense, there's nothing to stop a player being considered a natural in every position in FM that I'm aware of. There are knock-on effects further down the line, but researchers are well aware of those and what needs checking afterwards.

Don't take any of this as what will happen though, it's merely me offering up some suggestions as to how researchers can deal with the things you've raised away from the rising/decreasing player attributes.

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Depay is a classic case of it being a bit of lack of adaptability and consistency (and poor tactical setup) and a bit of skills being overrated in a couple of areas: he was able to stylishly beat poor fullbacks but was easily and frequently dispossessed by anyone half decent at positioning and tackling, which looks like a classic case of someone whose dribbling isn't actually that good (yet) that was made to look better in the Eredivisie by his pace, flair and poorer defenders. No coincidence his best performances for United were against Club Brugge and Midtjylland. On the other hand, there's no need to do anything drastic with his freekicks just because he didn't hit the target with relatively few opportunities whilst frustrated and in poor form.

In keeping with the spirit of this thread for pointing out the glaringly obvious, I'd like to nominate Marcus Rashford as someone whose finishing and composure will be markedly increased, will probably see improvements to anticipation and decisions and vision and will be given a high figure for important matches and decent figures for consistency and determination, probably without anyone even needing to ask the Man Utd researcher.

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It's a good question, but hard to answer.

Obviously we're encouraged to not have big knee-jerk reactions.

Depay could have his adaptability & consistency reduced and that alone could have a desirable outcome. It can reflect a player struggling with a big change and not being consistent. It's not a particularly obvious solution and most people won't notice it immediately in the sense that he can still have good games but if you're watching the games you'd notice he's not quite as effective as perhaps you'd be expecting. Sometimes this goes massively unnoticed in FM.

For a player becoming more used in another position, that's quite an easy one to do as we can change positions of players and add more to their sphere of familiarity. Aside from common sense, there's nothing to stop a player being considered a natural in every position in FM that I'm aware of. There are knock-on effects further down the line, but researchers are well aware of those and what needs checking afterwards.

Don't take any of this as what will happen though, it's merely me offering up some suggestions as to how researchers can deal with the things you've raised away from the rising/decreasing player attributes.

Depay is a classic case of it being a bit of lack of adaptability and consistency (and poor tactical setup) and a bit of skills being overrated in a couple of areas: he was able to stylishly beat poor fullbacks but was easily and frequently dispossessed by anyone half decent at positioning and tackling, which looks like a classic case of someone whose dribbling isn't actually that good (yet) that was made to look better in the Eredivisie by his pace, flair and poorer defenders. No coincidence his best performances for United were against Club Brugge and Midtjylland. On the other hand, there's no need to do anything drastic with his freekicks just because he didn't hit the target with relatively few opportunities whilst frustrated and in poor form.

In keeping with the spirit of this thread for pointing out the glaringly obvious, I'd like to nominate Marcus Rashford as someone whose finishing and composure will be markedly increased, will probably see improvements to anticipation and decisions and vision and will be given a high figure for important matches and decent figures for consistency and determination, probably without anyone even needing to ask the Man Utd researcher.

Cheers boys, i always wondered.

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  • 4 months later...
On 6/2/2016 at 23:03, dREIS said:

Threads based on opinions about attributes rarely end well. If you have issues with specific players/stats then take it up with the relevant researcher.

Open and honest discussion of player attributes is a good thing (subjective opinions included). I wish it happened more around here.

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There are a 100000 thousand players in the database.  They update these every year and they seem to reflect quite well on reality... I'm sure they accomplish this by having an extensive network of researchers and I'm sure they will not pass this particular batch of players by in their update for fm17. This seems like a pointless waste of time, sorry.

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1 hour ago, swansongs said:

Open and honest discussion of player attributes is a good thing (subjective opinions included). I wish it happened more around here.

bit of a delayed response no? I posted that in February.

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Too be honest if I was you I would get in touch directly with the relevant clubs researcher else wait for the Beta version out hopefully some time toward the end of the month and then review

Any changes you propose to the club AR / SI will need to be evidenced in some way. You will also need to compare them with other similar players

Just like investments, stats can go down as well as up :D

 

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31 minutes ago, MrPompey said:

Too be honest if I was you I would get in touch directly with the relevant clubs researcher else wait for the Beta version out hopefully some time toward the end of the month and then review

Any changes you propose to the club AR / SI will need to be evidenced in some way. You will also need to compare them with other similar players

Just like investments, stats can go down as well as up :D

 

Would like to do - if they are open to discussion or ideas. :thup: (And in this case, we also need a list of researchers by the club - maybe I am not aware)

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On 6/2/2016 at 14:09, Barside said:

Being perfectly honest it doesn't appear that anyone else cares as there are plenty who have viewed this thread without reply & as you're not qualifying your reasoning of selecting attributes for an increase it's not worth bothering the research team.

It's also very easy to pick out former youth players who've broken into the senior ranks as players who might need a CA increase.

Ouch!

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1 hour ago, talhak said:

Would like to do - if they are open to discussion or ideas. :thup: (And in this case, we also need a list of researchers by the club - maybe I am not aware)

when FM2017 beta starts a few weeks before FM2017 is available there will be Club Data thread where you can post comments and hopefully engage with the Clubs researcher.  It may mean data changes if agreed etc  are too late for Nov full release but could make one of the updates traditionally in December and mid February

Not sure if FM2016 Data threads are still open but you may see posts from the Clubs Reseracher and could then PM him direct

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On 6/2/2016 at 07:09, Barside said:

Being perfectly honest it doesn't appear that anyone else cares as there are plenty who have viewed this thread without reply & as you're not qualifying your reasoning of selecting attributes for an increase it's not worth bothering the research team.

It's also very easy to pick out former youth players who've broken into the senior ranks as players who might need a CA increase.

I think people do care but yes the approach needs some reflection in terms of qualifying the reasoning of any attribute changes and comparison with existing similar established players rather than arbitrary changes

I think we should help educate people how the process is normally performed as there may be some valid points and potential changes else we risk also losing someone who could contribute to the desired process of getting the data up to date and accurate. Much the same ways as people say too many cards / too many free kick goals etc you need need to build up supporting evidence as change wont happen by itself

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Everyone is welcome to come throw wild, unqualified opinions about Swansea players my way once the game is out. You won't need to have written a thesis on Kyle Naughton's forward passing accuracy percentage first (though brownie points if you do).

 

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2 hours ago, Preveza said:

HAHA gold reply. You joined in 2008 :D

Here is another gold reply! Why do people like personnel discussions instead of focusing the game - really do not understand.

On 6/2/2016 at 08:32, talhak said:

I am very well aware of the forum you mentioned but since there are not bugs, I created the topic here. The idea is to speak the attributes of players in the next version of FM. So the target is not FM16. If a moderator still believes that here is not the right place for this topic, they can move the topic to another forum, it is okay.

 

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Since the forum migration the data section has been separated from the bugs section once more. It was only there for the sake of tidiness in the first place I believe. 

Researchers cannot explicitly discuss upcoming data changes however. They can read your points, they can take them on board, they can discuss their merits. It means to an extent you do have to wait and see what comes in the next patch or in the next release. The discussion is always valid, its just not something that can be especially fulfilling for those who aim to be told they're potentially right and what the new figure for an attribute will be. 

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