FM16 - The community formation experiment

[Major Baws]

Just watched rashidi1's video on this - if there's still space left I'd like to participate if that's ok.

[Rashidi]

One thing I love about this challenge - Hope to God you get a tactic you've never used before or even considered, you will probably learn something new as you try things out.

Granted for some of us it happens after a few games for others it takes entire seasons, yet if you approach it with an open mind you can improve.

The videos I've seen so far show improvements. After what seem to be tough matches, some of you are like rocking.

I want to encourage people to keep sending in those PKMs so I can highlight how these exotic systems play out. If nothing else I will show their vulnerabilities. And if you are doing well, you can incorporate it into your existing long term saves.

Once again thanks to Jean, Valdy and Barside for your PKMs. Barsides tactic is a Box 4222, wow. That's a formation steeped in lore!

[Rashidi]

I reckon the second video will show 2 DM centred systems that provide fantastic passing options.

Both tactics started out wobbly, but you can see that the manager made changes that encouraged greater central movement that led to more passing options.

[kkfootball]

Hey Jambo love the challenge! Can I have a formation?

[dirkTLB]

If theres anything left count me in

[smp20]

Im pretty far into this now (February), had a marathon session yesterday. My key difficulty is holding on to leads with my top heavy formation. Ordinarily I would pull deeper and get men behind the ball, but with this shape theres always going to be 3 left up front and the 2 AMCs arent deep enough a lot of the time. One thing Im going to consider is specific player marking.

[Guest]

I had a similar problem in the last game of my session yesterday, held a 2-0 lead at half-time but that was easily tied up in the second half as I struggled to deal with the opposition going to what was probably an attacking or overload mentality.

[smp20]

I had a similar problem in the last game of my session yesterday, held a 2-0 lead at half-time but that was easily tied up in the second half as I struggled to deal with the opposition going to what was probably an attacking or overload mentality.

Yes its definitely when the opposition go to a more attacking mentality. When the opposition have 3/4 players high ready to receive and play direct it can cause my back 4 huge problems. I am happy with the tracking back of my CWBs, but the lack of any DMs or wide mids/forwards tracking back there can be vast open spaces if they manage to beat our high pressing front 5. In one of my recent games I was 3-0 up against Bordeaux, gave away the lead to 3-3 but managed to win 5-3 in the end. I am loving the possession football though, best possession tactic I've created on FM16.

[Jambo98]

Just watched rashidi1's video on this - if there's still space left I'd like to participate if that's ok.

Major Baws - 352 sweeper

Hey Jambo love the challenge! Can I have a formation?

kkfootball - 433 Narrow

If theres anything left count me in

dirkTLB - 541 diamond WB

[simji13]

Hi Jambo, just seen this thread on rashidi video just wondering if there is space available.

[Jambo98]

meanwhile i am very early into my exploration of the crazy 5212 Sweeper WB and i seem to have spotted a major flaw in the Libero plan.

I have been playing Perrin at Libero(a) to try and get that nice movement from him into the midfield. That part is working somewhat ok early, but the consequence for my backline is severe. Below is an example of where Perin (number 2) has stepped up as we build an attack down the inside right. However what jumps out, and this happened repeatedly, is that when he moves forward, the other 2 DCs stay wide. The result is that the opposing ST is left in a mile of space. Any long / quick clearance looks like we would be screwed.

This pattern happened pretty much every time the Libero went forward. Not sure what to make of it. Thus far, it has not cost us a goal but it just looks wrong? I couldn't think of anything i could do with instructions / roles for the other DC's to have them "cover" as the Libero goes forward? I might have to change back to a sweeper role

[Guest]

DC's not narrowing to double up or at least cover off a lone ST is an issue I have come across, as yet I've not found a solution to the problem.

Yes its definitely when the opposition go to a more attacking mentality. When the opposition have 3/4 players high ready to receive and play direct it can cause my back 4 huge problems. I am happy with the tracking back of my CWBs, but the lack of any DMs or wide mids/forwards tracking back there can be vast open spaces if they manage to beat our high pressing front 5. In one of my recent games I was 3-0 up against Bordeaux, gave away the lead to 3-3 but managed to win 5-3 in the end. I am loving the possession football though, best possession tactic I've created on FM16.

My problem is that we get pinned back & struggle to find a pass out that relieves the pressure, the obvious solution plays directly into an ME flaw/exploit which I'm doing my best not to take advantage of so I shall continue to plug away & find a way to deal with sides chasing to get back into a match.

[Jambo98]

Hi Jambo, just seen this thread on rashidi video just wondering if there is space available.

simji13 - 523 Narrow

[Erneliad]

Long time lurker, first time poster, feel it is time to get a bit more active outside of Twitter if there is anything left, feel free to put my name through the black box.

[Jambo98]

Long time lurker, first time poster, feel it is time to get a bit more active outside of Twitter if there is anything left, feel free to put my name through the black box.

Erneliad - 442 Sweeper

[triplem89]

Iv been in this forum for few years. Never posted anything. Can i participate in this challenge?

[Jambo98]

Iv been in this forum for few years. Never posted anything. Can i participate in this challenge?

triplem89 - 5122 DM WB

[the_gaffa]

If there is any space left, please sign me up Jambo.

I'm still yet to find a preferred formation in FM16 because I'm constantly chopping and changing. This "restriction" will probably actually be beneficial to me in understating the tactical side of things!

[summatsupeer]

31312 DM

I've only looked at the current squad so far, normally I have some inspiration for a style or particular player I want to build around so this is a little different, especially with a midfield setup I would never choose. DMC, MC and AMC in a 1-1-1 layout isn't my style but i've had a think about its weaknesses and strengths.

The obvious weakness is space in front of the DCL/DCR and between the ML/MR and the central line. The only strength I can see is it forces play to go wide, with 3 CB's and the midfield line it cuts the field in half, the two forwards make playing it around the defence to switch play unlikely.

Attacking Plan

I can control what we do offensively through roles, duties and instructions but i'm thinking of a more possession patient style to allow the wide players to get forward and to rest from having to press. One of our best players is a DLP so I want him getting the ball and looking to create something or use the DCs to recycle the ball.

Control + Flexible

TI: Retain Possession

I may add or switch to a lower tempo but I have two forwards if the ball does go forward quickly due to control mentality.

If the ball isn't rotated enough with too much focus on forward play I may drop to Standard Mentality.

Defensive Plan

Defensively with play more likely to be on the open flanks i'm going to press. Hopefully we can pin them against the touchline and only leaving them the option to cross from deep or try a high cross field ball. This doesn't need to be too far up the field as we don't have a solid line in midfield, we're using the touch lines. I want to limit the options and force the player on the ball into a rushed decision or get tackled.

TI: Close Down More, Tighter Marking, Tackle Harder

Roles, Duties and PI's

GK: SK-D (Pass to Defenders, Less Risky Passes)

DCR: DC-Stopper

DC: DC-Cover

DCL: DC-Stopper

DMC: DLP-D

MR: DW-S (Cross From Byline, Run Wider)

MC: MC-S

ML: DW-S (Cross From Byline, Run Wider)

AMC: AM-S (Roam From Position)

STR: DLF-A

STL: F9-S

I want the Defensive Wingers to press with two forwards and AMC it could force the opponents fullbacks into mistakes. I want the outside Centre Backs to defend the space in front of them hence Stoppers. When the ball is in our defensive third on the wings I am hoping the opposite DW drops back to make more of a back 4 shape. I will put my best header in the cover position, I don't want him stepping up or running wide to close down, I want him in the middle dominating the area. The goalkeeper is decent at coming out so should be able to sweep up a bit.

To fit my possession style, i've gone for mostly support roles. The only attack role is a DLF-A who should still help with possession holding up the ball for support, offering a bit of width with movement into channels but offering some forward runs. I don't want to crowd the AM area too much with both forwards dropping deep with a AM already there. With a F9-S dropping deep and then running with the ball it could open space for the DLF-A runs. I am looking for my AM-S to roam and link play, hopefully with the front two movement it causes defenders to get dragged out of position.

Players

Need to sell a lot of wide players and maybe one of the central midfielders. This should provide some decent funds to upgrade my starting lineup.

I'm cancelling all existing loans which frees up wages.

Transfer 1: A starting DC is a priority. We have a good aerial CB for the central position and a good ball player. I'm thinking Balanta who can play on the left and isn't bad on the ball.

Loan 1: We lack a true AMC so like many others have done i'm looking at loaning Correa.

Transfer 2: ??? I'm not sure. If this was a long term save i'd be looking at the wings as i'm looking at more FB/WB style players and mine are getting on.

[Guest]

Glad I'm not alone in struggling with a 4222 DM system although Blanc at least has ML/MR instead of MCL/MCR which I'm sure I could do a better job with than he did against Man City.

[video=youtube_share;hb0PlWXutcc]

[herne79]

Have to say I'm pretty impressed with the amount of interest generated in this thread.

Thanks for taking the time to organise it Jambo .

[Guest]

Got an interesting match coming up against Besiktas as they're using the 4123 DM Asymmetric formation.

[Jambo98]

The sign up rate for this has been off the charts! I am guessing in large part due to rashidi's excellent first youtube video of this series - An enjoyable watch, great dissecting of the tactics used by jean and waldy (who contributed the pkm). Look forward to seeing some more about your own tactic rash :-) You will learn to love the defensive formation in time........

Meanwhile we have, i think, only 3 tactics left unassigned (sadly the 253 is no longer a default in the game so no one will get that!). Maybe in a couple of days i will try and do a sweep of the thread to see if any initial sign ups have fallen by the wayside and not posted, incase we need to free up more tactics.

Got a good bit playing time in this morning on my own tactic, and am ignoring the sweeper / libero issue highlighted above as although it is weird behavior, it is not costing me goals. I have made quite a number of changes since my initial layout, based on performances in the friendlies (which i managed myself for once!). Here is the new write up for my tactic.

The 5-2-1-2 Sweeper WB

First things first, the mentality / team shape / TI:

I have stuck with standard as a base mentality. Last year i was a huge advocate of that approach and believing that the other settings should be used when you need to adapt. I am following that approach. Fluid is chosen as without a DM in the team, i want to bring the lines a little closer together, and i also want to grant a bit of creative freedom to my key players.

In terms of TI:

Play out of defence - mainly to bring the Libero into play and also encourage balls which give the CWB time to fly up the wing. A long lump to the strikers would negate the CWB a bit

Look for the overlap - To encourage the midfielders to slow things just enough to get the wingbacks into the attack

Push Higher Up - From initial friendlies, my team were sitting too deep overall. Perhaps to do with the sweeper based shape, so used this to get us further up the pitch as a starting point

Close down more - With how we are set up from middle to front, i feel that we can close down high. Between my strikers, my AM and my CM's i feel we can squeeze teams in. The CWB can also squeeze onto opponents wide men effectively

On to the roles and duties:

GK (d) - Basic at the moment, with the Libero i am unsure i would have much need for a sweeper keeper, but i will keep an eye on whether balls over the top are an issue

L (a) - I have to give this a try, even though everyone would caution that a libero will only be effective with a very good quality, well suited player. I dont have the perfect solution, but seeing what i can make of it. The idea is he steps into midfield when we have possession, and provides some additional thrust from deep. Perrin is the man entrusted with this job, although i have an eye towards using Cubas as well

DC (d) x 2 - Standard centre backs here to flank the Libero. Rhodolfo and Sall will be the first choices, Perrin might move in if Cubas gets a start at Libero

CWB (a) x 2 - I started with support duty here, but moved to attack after watching some pre-season and noting they were far too cautious. I chose CWB over WB as by default they "stay wider" and the "roam" can add an extra dangerous element in my experience

CM (s) x 2 - Bog standard starting point for my middle pair. My initial combo did not look good so for now have just sat with 2 basic support midfielders. I will want to change these as i get more of a handle on the situation, including deciding whether with a back 3, i still need a further defend duty in my CM strata - The answer is probably. But for now 2 standard chaps are doing ok

AM (a) - Started as a support duty but was being drawn too deep and not linking to the attack. In attack duty he still drops deep enough to be a passing outlet, and this way he provides a thrust into the box. Been probably one of my best roles so far.

DF (s) - Changed from a DLF, partly when i moved to a pressing game. He should drop off and press onto DM type players. So far this has worked really well. Nolan Roux got a hatrick from here in my last friendly against a good AZ side.

AF (a) - The spearhead of the team, he will also press onto DC's and will provide an outlet via through balls and early crosses from the CWB.

The only PI's in place are still keeper distribution.

Transfers

This is the aspect i am probably least happy with. I have shot my bolt here, and perhaps not done a great job:

Transfer 1 - Rhodolfo - A solid DC who is a beast in the air, and has decent mentals. I did not get sucked into the Alvarez Balanta trap (his mentals will kill you) but i did want Mammana, however he went to Man U. Rhodolfo is strong and big and pretty good mental stats. Cost me £5.5m

Transfer 2 - Andres Cubas - This is perhaps a bit of a speculative one. He came up on a scout report as being available relatively cheap and has huge potential. I had in mind that he can develop into a Libero, who could also play in my MC slots as needed. He needs PPMs trained, and to develop, and most glaring of all......is 5ft 4 and one of the weakest players in the game aerially Is that an issue for a Libero........ Cost me £4.5m

Loan 1 - Andre Silva - I went for Correa but Lyon nabbed him, so i took this guy from Porto. I have seen how he develops over a season or two, but the risk is i have him too early and he is still a bit raw. Has good physical attributes and i know can be developed into a great AF, but on loan for only one season might be a waste here . He is also injured for 5 weeks after just 3 games for us

So far i cruised the Europa first round, had a wild 3 v 3 draw with Toulouse where i led 2 v 0, trailed 3 v 2 and ultimately took a point. Some more tweaking needed but we are starting to see it come together....

[the_gaffa]

Meanwhile we have, i think, only 3 tactics left unassigned

I'll take one of those please Jambo! Cheers.

[Jambo98]

I'll take one of those please Jambo! Cheers.

the_gaffa - 424 DM wide

[Rashidi]

Meantime in the halls of FM....'

Don't forget to email me your pkms, let me know your twitter handle and I will include highlights of your matches so we can all see how these exotic systems play. You can send the pkms to me bustthenet@gmail.com

Thanks

The next show has Barside's 4222 box system

[Guest]

I'll get another batch over to you, a few interesting matches in there.

[Wellmade]

Been landed with the 4231 dm narrow.

In all honesty, could've had worse.

So the basic formation looks like this

Looking at the squad, unfortunately I have a lot of AMRL\ST but lack AMC's. I have a couple of young AMC's that I will use during the pre-season games and see how they take to the formation, otherwise I'll need to try and bring one in and use the AMRL\ST's as best I can.

Defence doesn't look to bad at the minute, I'll let pre-season dictate if I need to get cover.

I have a few tweaks in mind and for my first game against the reserves I will try this out and see what changes I need to make. I have deliberately went for clear ball to flanks, to see if I can use this to pull the oppositions defence out of position and help create space.

I'll update again at the end of preseason and we'll see how this differs to what I actually go with.

[Repsalty]

Well I tried (not that hard to be quite honest, but still) and got sacked on December 19.

Played the 4321 Narrow (TIs) and failed miserably.

The friendlies and early Euro cup qualification rounds gave me quite some hope ahead of the season but the start of the season was crazy bad with a 4-0 whipping by Toulouse. After that it went pretty well but after a visit to Paris to meet PSG, it pretty much went all down hill. The Euro Cup pretty much was a rollercoaster ride with really inconsistent results.

What I noticed early on is that our defenders were getting pulled out of position for no apparent reason. Central defenders chasing down wingers when my back is already on it or closing down upcoming midfielders when already covered by a midfielder. Since I have no (extra) closing down anywhere it seemed to me that this was due to player incompetence and there for I decided to get in some defenders (Ahamada was someone my youth guy got and didn't play for me so not breaking the rules), though that did not seem to help much as first they were injured a lot and second when they were playing just getting low ratings (6.4 and lower) anyway.

So that's my (sad) story.

As some last note I just want to highlight some of the players that were exceptional even though I suck.

• Benjamin Corgnet; This guy was creating and scoring the most amazing goals all over the place.
  
• Nolan Roux; Was my main striker and he was great, even managed to get a hattrick in one of the games.
  
• Kevin Malcuit; I ignored him at the start of the game but after he came to me asking for more game time, he impressed a lot with his amazing ratings.
  
• Neal Maupay; I believe this guy is a future legend, he is in the reserves but I feel he's better than some of the other strikers in the first team.
  
• Kevin Monnet-Paquet; Does surprisingly well in the AMC position.
  

I never quite expected my run to last very long, since even my try hard games haven't been the greatest but still had fun with this. I wish everyone else better luck!

[Rashidi]

My initial reaction was literally unprintable, censor worthy and definitely a good example of bad language.

So off I went, first time out, and I was playing it like a defensive system cos you gotta admit when you see 3421, with one striker, you will naturally think its defensive.

And then we started experimenting in preseason, what would happen. And lo and behold after a nervy start, we are now the topscoring team in the league and joint best defensive record.

I reckon I should stop now before the losing streak begins. :-)

It aint defensive, yeah it doesn't really provide a heckuva lot of ccc's but I would hate to face this system in an online game.

[Guest]

I would hate to face this system in an online game.

That's a brilliant idea, online custom league using the same team (names changed for clarity) in a 20 club league & see how human tacticians cope when competing against each other with their assigned formation.

[legskeattch]

Yes please if there is still space!

[Guest]

Having a player sent off after 56 seconds against PSG is not great when you cannot change the formation other than subbing an ST for an MC, ripped apart doesn't even begin to describe it.

[Abaddon879]

Having a player sent off after 56 seconds against PSG is not great when you cannot change the formation other than subbing an ST for an MC, ripped apart doesn't even begin to describe it.

You held together better in the second half, or did they just decide to have a rest?

[Guest]

You held together better in the second half, or did they just decide to have a rest?

It felt like they were just toying with us.

4222 DM Narrow

With 11 league games done I'm pretty much settled on my core starting system, I do make changes for each match & will start documenting those as I go from here on out. For now I'll just deal with the core system.

GK - Sweeper Keeper (D) - My go to, a sold role to provide additional cover against punts over the top with the Defend duty selected to stop the keeper from getting too adventurous with his passing or running with the ball at his feet.

DR/L - Full Back (S) - More keep it simple stuff with a role/duty that will make use of space ahead of them but not be too crazy & get caught way out of position when transitioning from attack to defence. Depending on whether there is space to operate I do look to get my DR on the IWB role to encourage them to cut into the space left by my advancing MCR

DCR - Ball Playing Defender (D) - I'm not a fan of this role as I'd rather they played more like a Libero but having a defender look for a longer range pass is a handy option to have

DCL - Central Defender (D) - Bread & butter role, will occasionally switch to a cover or stopper role as the need arises

DMCR - Ball Winning Midfielder (D) - I look for this guy & his left side partner to provide lateral cover for the full backs , kept to the defend duty as in support they get drawn too far forward & I need them to be much more defensively focused

DMCL - Deep Lying Playmaker (D) - Selnæs' ability to pick out a pass is invaluable, as with the right side the defend duty is to discourage him from venturing too far forward & allows him to provide better cover for the DL. If Salnæs isn't available then the role is changed to another BMW or a defensive midfielder.

MCR - Central Midfielder (A) - My primary attacking threat, much of what I create in attack is aimed through this guy as they get into very advanced positions, ideally I look to use someone who is highly rated as a playmaker but stop short of setting them in a playmaker role as I'd rather not have players look for them as the first passing option. Once they get on the ball I'm really hoping they can use their skill much as they would if set as a AP or RMP.

Have active PIs of Roam from Position, Move into Channels & more risky passes to help them be more creative & allusive.

MCL - Box to Box Midfielder - There to be a jack of all trades & cause the opposition problems with their movement, the idea being that they act as the foil for the MCR

Active PI of Roam from Position, again this is for them to be tough to pick up & in the hope that the will push a little wider when needed.

STCR - Deep Lying Forward (S) - Initially I had this position as a DF put they were staying too high up the pitch & weren't that useful in terms of harassing the opposition when they had possession in their half, this player is also the go to guy for marking any DM that the opposition might use & in attack they are there to do what the role says, link up the play & bring others into attack.

STCL - Complete Forward (S) - No real expectation of this guy other than to be involved as much as possible & score.

Active PI of Close down more, if only so he's not standing around doing nothing.

Mentality: Control - The formation is naturally too deep therefore this is an attempt to push the early defensive stages into the opposition half., the downside of this is if the opposition go to an attacking or overload mentality we do not have much in the way of a response as dropping mentality just invites pressure & this cost us against Troyes as they netted late in the first half to take the score to 3-2 which gave them encouragement to go über attacking in the second half which had us pinned back.

Shape: Highly Structured - Tried fluid & the lack of width just didn't work & the cover in defence was poor which the more stringent shape does seem to have improve

Team Instruction

Lower Tempo, Shorter Passing & Work Ball into Box; selected because a more direct approach just resulted in my midfield box getting in each others way, this was worse with a higher tempo & I just had players blocking off their teammates runs so I've opted from a more patience in our approach & this has resulted in much less wasted possession.

Higher Defensive Line; links in with the control mentality to push the play away from our goal, downside is the central defence does lack pace so balls over the top or into the channels can be an issue if the keeper is not alert.

Play much wider; Went for this to try & force width from a system that is very much lacking in that regard.

Transfers were trickier as I follow an LLM path which means no going out & buying a player I know will be cheap & better but it was clear that I needed another central defender & ideally a playmaker for the MCR slot. The scouts were not great at finding me a new defender but they did excel with the midfielder.

IN

Transfers;

Hilton - €1.9m from Montpellier, a lot for an almost 38 year old but he's proven solid enough & it's only for a season

Jonas Martin - €5.5m from Montpellier (need to check the scouts travel expenses claim), could be an inspired buy with 3 goals, 3 assists & 3 POM performances from his 5 starts & 1 sub appearance so far, unfortunately he has recently picked up a minor injury

Loans:

Keeping this iron in the fire for January

OUT

Transfers:

François Clerc - €750K to QPR - Needless extra wide player

Romain Hamouma - €5m to Villerreal - another unwanted wide player

Loans:

Cancelled all exiting loans as I didn't see any value in keeping them on the wageroll, also loaned out Monnet-Paquet for a €250K monthly fee & all his wage cost as I couldn't find a place for him in the system.

What really matters are performances & wins, aside from rout in Paris & the collapse against Troyes I'm very happy with where we're at.

[Craigus89]

Formation 3-5-2

Update - Late August 2015

I’ve not progressed as far as some of you have, but thought this would be a good time to have an update.

I’ve been tweaking this system somewhat as I’m going as my experience with 3 defender systems is limited. At first I was hoping to have some fast paced attacking football. This slowly evolved into what I was hoping would be a slow paced possession system, but I found I was getting exposed on counters. So I decided to ‘strip it back’ and give the players a more aggressive mentality and more creative freedom.

Current Tactic:

Recent results:

That thumping of Slovan Bratislava was a fantastic performance after making a few additional tweaks. A hat-trick or both of my strikers is a nice boost to morale too hopefully. Turns out an Advanced Forward with decent pace is pretty devastating from balls over the top.

[Guest]

Disaster!

Had a hard lock when attempting to create a highlight package & had to crash out, somewhat stupidly I did not save beforehand & have lost the 8-1 loss to PSG. I'm going to give the match a couple of goes but unless I get a similar hammering I shall be calling an end to this save as such a crucial event cannot be wiped from history without killing any sense of enjoyment from this point.

Edit: Using ultra quick key highlights I've had a pair of 2-2 results so far, at least it shows how important it is to keep a full compliment of players on the pitch for my system to work.

[herne79]

Disaster!

Had a hard lock when attempting to create a highlight package & had to crash out out, somewhat stupidly I did not save beforehand & have lost the 8-1 loss to PSG. I'm going to give the match a couple of goes but unless I get a similar hammering I shall be calling an end to this save as such a crucial event cannot be wiped from history without killing any sense of enjoyment from this point.

Damn .

Fingers crossed you lose heavily again, which is kind of a weird thing to say...

[Guest]

Can't buy a loss at the moment, that 1st minute Red appears to have been crucial.

Edit: I'm calling it, even with everyone told to get stuck in, a midfield 4 of BWM's & every PSG player targeted for hard tackling I still haven't had a player sent off & the worst defeat I've managed is 3-1.

[Jambo98]

Yes please if there is still space!

legskeattch - 532 Sweeper WB

[Rashidi]

@Barside

Have you tried not using look for overlap, use counter mentality vs equal sides, control vs weaker and higher D line. Let me know how that does

[Jambo98]

Gah, game management is killing me so far. After throwing away a 2 nil lead in the first league game to draw, i just threw away a 3 nil lead against Montpellier to draw 3 all

I have to think that the Libero is causing me issues defensively. His positioning in the defensive phase can be rather wierd at times. he acts more like a stopper than a sweeper when defending. I need to look at that more, but if anyone has any wisdom about Libero defending, please feel free to share!

Shall send across a pkm or 2 this morning rashidi if its not to late

[Guest]

@Barside

Have you tried not using look for overlap, use counter mentality vs equal sides, control vs weaker and higher D line. Let me know how that does

You've lost me there, I don't even have the look for overlap TI active.

[Rashidi]

You've lost me there, I don't even have the look for overlap TI active.

Havent seen your shouts, but whats your defensive line set at?

@Jambo no worries I am editing episode 2 and 3 now, if it doesnt get into either one it will go in episode 48

[Craigus89]

Gah, game management is killing me so far. After throwing away a 2 nil lead in the first league game to draw, i just threw away a 3 nil lead against Montpellier to draw 3 all

I have to think that the Libero is causing me issues defensively. His positioning in the defensive phase can be rather wierd at times. he acts more like a stopper than a sweeper when defending. I need to look at that more, but if anyone has any wisdom about Libero defending, please feel free to share!

What are Perrins PPM's? I'm at work and can't check them.

[Jambo98]

Perrin only has 1 PPM - "Gets forward whenever possible". That should not impact how he acts out of possession i believe?

I will do a bit of a careful look at his defending behaviour shortly. The lack of impact in an attacking sense i can sort of live with, as he is not perfect for an attacking libero, but i cant shake the feeling that the presence of the libero is messing up the way the back 3 behave. I think i have a couple of examples.

Meanwhile, yet another defensive meltdown when 2 goals ahead, in a game we totally dominated I need to make changes. The obvious glaring thing is the 2 support duties in CM, with no DM. I will need to change at least one to a defend duty i believe.

[herne79]

What are Perrins PPM's? I'm at work and can't check them.

Gets Forward Whenever Possible.

Edit - Jambo beat me to it.

[Guest]

Havent seen your shouts, but whats your defensive line set at?

Higher D-Line, at the moment I'm looking to tank the PSG so I can happily pick up following the crash, other than that I'm generally happy with my system & game management.

[Jambo98]

Noticing some quiet strange behaviour issues, which doesnt feel like it is about the formation as such. One feels Libero / sweeper related, and the other......not sure, something in the way my CWB defend is wrong.

First up, the issue with Libero. He should act like a sweeper in defence, i would think we all agree? His average positions, without the ball only, for 3 recent games are shown below:

Next up a little clip of Perrin, my Sweeper, charging out past his Dline to close the ball down - Aware that this issue can occur with DC's where you dont have an appropriate "screen" in front of the back 4, but i would expect it to be coded in that a sweeper does not do this? He should remain behind the dline, well, sweeping?

On to the CWBs. I have noted they seem to end up way narrow when defending, often almost on top of the outer DC's. With the roles and duties i have, i expect that now and then i could be exposed in wide areas when the opposition break and get in behind my wingbacks - that is going to happen. What i dont expect, is that they opposition have loads of space out wide, when my wingbacks are goal side of the attack.

Here are a couple of screenshots showing what i mean, with them defending incredibly narrow, despite there being threats from wide. There seems to be no need for them to be this narrow when we have 3 DCs?

Then there is this somewhat bizzare bit of action. It might just be one of those quirky bits of ME behaviour that i captured the exact moment, but look at what my 2 WBs (names highlighted in the clip) do as we lose the ball? They go charging back to exactly where the outer DC's are???

Wondering if anyone else has any experience or thoughts around these issues?

[Craigus89]

Jambo, Perrin's positioning without the ball looks spot on to me. I've always understood that a sweeper in a back three is a central defender who holds the line but focuses on 'sweeping up', intercepting balls over the top, making last man tackles etc rather than charging out to attempt tackles, marking forwards and doing other things that Centre Backs might do. I wouldn't want him sitting deep behind my line, can you imagine the mayhem that would be caused if he was playing everyone onside, especially with the way crosses can be in this ME.

As for the case of him charging out, it looks as if your DM or CM has been dragged out of position closing down the ball carrier. Whilst it isn't ideal for a sweeper to do this, if he hadn't the amount of space that player would have had in that position may well have led to a goal. If it is rarely that he is doing this I wouldn't worry.