Jump to content
Sports Interactive Community
Jambo98

FM16 - The community formation experiment

Recommended Posts

Cregan - 3412

Interesting. I've never had much luck with 3-man defences before.

I've also never seen so many defenders with "gets forward whenever possible" before either, so I don't think I'm going to be sitting tight and aiming for a counter game.

So far, I'm thinking something like:

U1AthTd.jpg

Fluid, Standard, probably short passing since the team's hardly a bunch of giants, maybe park a little high up the pitch, though that's risky with such slow DCs. Selnaes in the DLP slot since he's good for it, Perrin at BPD, Corgnet running from AM to join the attack. I'm not too sure about the striker set up, though, so that might change. Roux I like, but I don't know about big ol' Soderlund in this set up. Maybe at DLF with Roux at AF? Or maybe I'll try Maupay in from reserves. Hmm...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Forza Doria! - 424 Wide

Poobington - 4132 DM Narrow

We did say in previous years to use the full game to make it a fair comparison, since FM Touch does not contain any elements of tactical familiarity penalty (and with the likely hood of several sets of tweaks as we all get used to a different formation than we are accustomed to, it could make a difference).

That said, its not a contest as such, no points etc so these things are pretty loose - If you want to go FM Touch then nothing to stop you :)

When you posted in the morning there was 5-3-2 wb so I've made a tactic with that which seems to be working quite well, but I will have a stab at this new one.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Formation: 343

Ok pre-season out of the way and I'm starting to get a feel for the players & the shape. The club had four friendlies booked, one got cancelled while I added three more to get the squad fit and try things out.

Not a shape I've ever used in FM but I have used three defender formations before so had a bit of an idea what I wanted from the defence while further forward I've found it to be quite versatile.

GK - Sweeper Keeper (Attack)

I don't really think the keeper role matters that much but Ruffier is good at coming off his line and with space left at the back it makes sense to encourage him to do so. Ruffier is the clear first choice while Moulin is a solid backup who is happy with his role.

Defence - CD (Cover) CD (Stopper) CD (Cover)

Basically one goes to attack the ball while the other two sweep up behind. Works really well against lone forwards while against two men front lines I'll consider two stoppers as markers with one cover to sweep up but it does leave more space behind. We'll obviously struggle more against top heavy formations, particularly against good teams who come to attack. Against weaker teams though signs are we cope fairly well aside from the odd pacy counter attack. I'm all for giving players a chance and I've got six (Perrin, Pogba, Sall, Karamoko, Theophile-Catherine & Pajot) which should be enough. Pajot is being retrained to DC and has the ability to do well in a cover role while Karamoko has looked good enough for a backup stopper role which makes the most of his abilities.

Midfield - DW(s) CM(d) DLP(s) DW(s)

The centre is straight forward given the number of more defensive midfielders Saint-Etienne have. Both sit more to shield the defence and to pick up the loose balls as we play forwards. Wider I wasn't sure and still aren't aside from the decision to use more defensive minded players. I've tried WM & DW roles both in defence & support during the friendlies and will probably still tweak during the season depending on the strength & shape of the opposition. The aim is to have them giving a wide option when we go forwards as well as getting back to help out in defence (Almost like a wingback role). As for players Clement & Lemoine have been sharing the CM(d) while Selnaes & Cohade the DLP(s). On the right Clerc is retraining to be my preferred option at MR with Corgnet & Malcuit more attacking options. The left is better balanced where Tabanou, Assou-Ekotto & Brison are all capable defenders so get back well.

Forwards - ? ? ?

Lots of options here which I'll be tweaking on a game by game basis dependent on the opposition formation & strength. The idea is generally to either play a central supporting striker with two attacking wider forwards or a central attacking forward with two wider supporting players. Roles will depend on the player chosen in that position but generally Soderlund makes a good target man, Beric seems to be a good creator so likely a DLF(s), Roux I'm still working out and the wider wingers (Tannane, Hamouma & Monnet-Paquet) seem comfortable in a DLF(s) or a AF(a) role.

Overall

Pre-season has been fairly good, we've looked strong & creative against smaller defensive sides while we do get stretched at the back by better teams or the quick counter attack. The formation can be tweaked to be either a defensive counter attacking style to the three forwards, a possession based shape where we camp around the opposition box or a direct style to get behind the opposition.

Squad

Its a big squad with eight new signings & several decent backup options in the reserves/U19s. I didn't see any point of bringing anyone else in, especially given the lack of wage budget while I terminated the loans of both Eysseric & Bahebeck as we simply had too many front players & I won't be able to keep them all happy.

Friendlies

In defence Karamoko looked capable as a stopper but Pogba looked a little shaky while Theophile-Catherine looked like a full back playing at DC. Midfield was solid while up front Hamouma missed out through injury while Tannane probably benefited the most from the formation. Beric & Roux both missed several chances and I hope its only temp but the others didn't seem to have the same issue.

SE%202%20Friendlies.png

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Formation: 4132 DM Narrow

Ok up until the Hull game I was playing with a 5-3-2 WB formation which was working quite nicely. Unashamedly I am taking a lot of inspiration from Ozil's 3-4-3 thread and am using a Very Fluid shape with a standard mentality. With the quality of the squad it may initially seem like no the best idea but with 5-3-2 it worked very well and so far for the 4132 its working okay as well.

MeHWE9a.jpg

Player Instructions (PIs)

GK - Distribute to Playmaker

CD - none

WB - Stay Wider

DM - Close Down Much Less

CM - Support - One of the CMs is usually a holder and is told to Hold Position, Play Shorter Passes, and Fewer Risky Passes. The other has no instructions is more of a water carrier.

CM - Attack - No instructions so far but may add dribble more and more direct passes depending on the payer

DLF - none

CF - Move into Channels

Matches so far

[APY98Ak.jpg

Full of injuries probably down to my aggressive pre season training but they're all coming back soon. Started to use the tactic in the Olympiakos game but with a few tweaks did well against Red Star in the first leg of the Europa League Qualifier. The second leg was pretty good. Took a one nil lead going into half time and put Angle Correa, who is with us on loan, into the CMa slot and he played very well scoring a goal and laying on two assists. What we gained in attacking movement going forward, however, we lost in defensive stability and conceded two goals. With a more complete player in this position defensively that will shore up that problem. Going forward I see Correa playing in the DLF slot .

Squad

Signings were tough to make. I sold Florentin Pogba and brought in Jonathan Cristaldo for 1.5m. Nolan Roux was wasting an incredible number of chances due to his low compsure. We were getting around 10-15 shots a game but many of them were off target from inside the box. Correa has come in on loan, as well as Emanuel Mammana who has future fee of £5m.

In terms of tactical innovation the 5-3-2 was looking exciting as I was trying to retrain Assou-Ekkoto into a left sided centre back in a similar mould to the position that Alaba plays in Guardiola's back three at Bayern, but alas he will have to stick to a WB role in the new system.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The 4-2-4-0 DM Narrow

Interesting formation this one, that presents a few challenges for me as I've never done a strikerless formation before. However, the nature of the formation leads me to a few decisions straight away:

  • By default gap between defence and attack, so want to minimise it: Very Fluid, Much Higher Defensive Line
  • Line of 4 high up the pitch lends itself to a pressing game: Close Down Much More, Mugh Higher Defensive Line, Use Tigher Marking, Prevent Short Gk Distribution
  • Need a link between the defense and attack, ideally from one of the DMs: Roaming Playmaker in the DM slots

Now, a lot of this matches up with tactics that O-zil to the Arsenal! has been discussing recently. See Arrigo Sacchi 4-4-2 (Very Fluid) and Johan Cruyff's 3-4-3 (Very Fluid). So their work is a definite inspiration.

As far as the roles for the shape, I had a look round Zonal Marking to see if there were teams with a similar shape I could imitate, and it turns out there is one in particular: France, Euro 2004. Not a complete match, but it gives me ideas.

  • A Winger (S) on the right can help link defense and attack
  • On the left an Inside Forward (A) and a Wing Back (S) provide width without the ball and attacking movement with it

So that leaves me the rest of the roles and they're fairly straight forward. Standard GK (D), two CD (D), FB (S) on the right. One DM (S) with an RPM (S) alongside. Two central AM's are an AM (S) to help link up and an SS (A) to provide goal scoring threat. The SS (A) also presses lots which is great for this.

The end result is this:

Line Up

0yWx9Kr.jpg

Team Instructions

nbawnsA.jpg

Average Positions

oCbbuUC.jpg

And I do have to say I've been pleased with the results so far in the friendlies I've played, especially this result against Lazio:

OmTWZY0.jpg

Not bought any players, though if I do it's gonna be focused on CD's as there's not much depth there. Plenty of players for the other positions, especially with the promising youngsters the club has.

Only player instruction is Distribute to Playmaker for the GK, may tweak some others as the season goes on.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Assuming you are using a Windows PC, the only way I know of doing this is to resize the image using Paint before uploading it to the hosting site.

Right click the image, select Open With > Paint. Once open in Paint, select the Resize tool (top left), make sure "Percentage" is selected and adjust the numbers in the boxes - they'll be 100 to begin with, change to 50 or 75 or whatever. When done, save it and upload this newly resized image instead.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

As I'm not a fan of the formation I received I thought it wise to spend much more time using the analysis function to understand how a system I never use is working but I'm left a little confused by the average position & heat map overlays as they do not seem to match with each other.

What am I missing in how to interpret what I'm seeing in the linked image? To me most of out play is taking place in a narrow area 18-25 from the opposition goal line yet the with ball data has my wing backs in a very withdrawn position.10C54A50ECD598A5650D1A2E624ECCCD1F83E305

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I virtually never look at the analysis so I could easily be missing something but for me it looks like the No 2 & 32 are your fullbacks which average position shows are well up the pitch as you would expect with that formation as they provide the width but it looks like you spent a lot of time defending in that match with the opposition playing balls behind the fullbacks.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
As I'm not a fan of the formation I received I thought it wise to spend much more time using the analysis function to understand how a system I never use is working but I'm left a little confused by the average position & heat map overlays as they do not seem to match with each other.

What am I missing in how to interpret what I'm seeing in the linked image? To me most of out play is taking place in a narrow area 18-25 from the opposition goal line yet the with ball data has my wing backs in a very withdrawn position.

It'll just give you a basic overview.

The heat map will show you where the hot spots are for your team's activity - both in and out of possession. So in your case it looks good as most activity is nicely within the opposition half. What it doesn't show is who is active in those areas (although you can make pretty good assumptions). Take a look at the Player analysis individual heat maps for that. It's also worth mentioning that you can select multiple players there, so you can overlay player activity. Some of those green areas far out on the wings probably relate to players moving for throw ins and corners.

It can also be interesting to select a player's heat map and overlay categories such as passes made.

Average positions are slightly different as it pinpoints a single overall position for each player, which can be useful to check things like a striker who is supposed to be dropping deep (due to your tactical instructions) actually is dropping deep. Obviously you can see that by watching a match, it just gives an overall perception to relate back to your system.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I virtually never look at the analysis so I could easily be missing something but for me it looks like the No 2 & 32 are your fullbacks which average position shows are well up the pitch as you would expect with that formation as they provide the width but it looks like you spent a lot of time defending in that match with the opposition playing balls behind the fullbacks.

Doh, I'm looking at it backwards ignore the above herne is right, your fullbacks are getting forwards and you are the one getting possession out wide in the opposition half.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
As I'm not a fan of the formation I received I thought it wise to spend much more time using the analysis function to understand how a system I never use is working but I'm left a little confused by the average position & heat map overlays as they do not seem to match with each other.

What am I missing in how to interpret what I'm seeing in the linked image? To me most of out play is taking place in a narrow area 18-25 from the opposition goal line yet the with ball data has my wing backs in a very withdrawn position.10C54A50ECD598A5650D1A2E624ECCCD1F83E305

Use heatmaps by isolating the timeframe. Thats how I do it. If you select the entire match, you get average positions which in itself doesnt help. I use it for specific transitions or points in a game to see how deep or how far the gap is between my defense/midfield

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thought it might have something to do with who I was using it, annoyingly I just had a UI crash the day before the first save interval but at least it's only 2 weeks of pre-season that I need to redo.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I wish i had the 424 or 4312 narrow...I have some weird system that has an isolated dude upfront this should be fun. Me the guy who hates making defensive systems, has to make one now/

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This is superb, I would like to give it a go also :)

Edit: are there any particular rules that are in place other than you must use St Etienne and the set formation?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
This is superb, I would like to give it a go also :)

Edit: are there any particular rules that are in place other than you must use St Etienne and the set formation?

All rules are detailed in the OP.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
All rules are detailed in the OP.

Don't know how I missed that ;) thanks!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I really want to instruct my MC's to go wide when in possession as I'm struggling to come up with a way to not have such a congested centre, hopefully I'll manage to come up with a solution before the start of the season.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

343 DM Wide

A bit of a delayed start from me as I have been out of the running this weekend with kidney stones.

I consider myself a fairly attacking manager so the 343 DM Wide was a nice change of pace form the fairly top heavy formations I usually use.

dGFu5ni.png

So when starting out I was thinking that if we do have 8 men behind the ball most of the time, defending would have to be our bread and butter. So out went a bunch of dead wood to raise some very necessary cash which was immediately converted in two very solid South American center backs. Correa came in on loan to add some much needed technique and speed up front.

The roles haven't changed from the start so I'll begin with that.

Mammana and Alvarez form the defense with the experienced captain Perrin in cover slightly behind them. On the wings I like to play both an attacking and a support player. An IFS and WBA on one side which creates some much needed linkup play and a Raumdeuter on the other side to support (and hopefully bomb past) the CFS up front. Behind him a WB on support to compensate for the very attacking role in front of him. In center midfield a DM support to enforce the "weak" side of the defense on the WB attack side and a Roaming playmaker to exploit the massive gap between the front three and the rest of the pack.

jPq3xZX.png

Initially the idea was to keep things as simple as possible. Tactical instructions were kept at a minimum: look for overlap and play fairly wide since if we were going to attack and create superior numbers going forward it would have to be over the wings due to the lack of offensive central players. I am usually apprehensive to increase width, but with three at the back and 4 in front of them I figured I could get away with it. Lastly I added play out of defense because we lack aerial presence up front, so playing it long would most likely lead nowhere. I thought about pushing up further, but having some of the worst decision making in the league I didn't feel comfortable playing with large amounts of space in our backs. Besides, the general idea was to let the opposition run into an impenetrable wall and react from there. Instead I switched to very fluid to decrease space between attack and defense. Mentality at standard, I can always go more attacking in match when behind.

After a couple of friendlies I realized that while I was okay with having less possession and shots than my opponents we just weren't winning enough balls back. So I added closing down more and use tighter marking (yes, I too have been reading Ö-zil to the Arsenal!'s excellent thread), and things started to click. The closing down forced opponents to play the forward ball quicker and my tight marking superior numbers in the back mob it up.

Essentially my formation is a 343 with ball and a 523 without it:

FzjRKWV.png

0NH9l70.png

So how does it all work out? Pretty damn well!

1lVE3Nc.png

It was almost September before we conceded out first goal. But when it rains it pours, more on that a bit later. In general there are not a lot of shots on either side. The Toulouse match is a pretty good example:

4SWEp3T.png

Like most matches everything seems pretty equal. The one thing that differs almost always between me and my opponents is the amount of shots on target. The sheer amounts of bodies between the ball and the goal, combined with the closing down and tight marking make sure my opponents rarely hit the target. Which is very pleasing indeed. Going forward on the other hand we look great on occasion, stretching the play with the wing backs and creating some good chances.

Lastly the 0-3 Lorient loss:

6rSVmUx.png

As you can see things are not as bad as the scoreline suggests. We created enough but struggled with their 442. Their 2 strikers seemed to be able to find space in between the back three and I didn't have a direct answer for that without changing formation. 3 at the back is something I haven't done in years so any pointers are welcome!

Anyway these are my early findings. I am having much more fun than I thought I would have with such a defensive formation, and things are looking good, especially considering tactical familiarity is still not 100%. I'll wait for that to happen and then maybe tweak some more and start adding some individual TI's.

As I am writing this I occasionally drop to the floor screaming in agony because of these damn kidney stones, so if everything seems a bit incoherent I apologize.

Lastly, this save brought me my quickest hattrick ever, so please indulge me while I gloat a bit...

SvXb3Lb.png

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I am doing the first video now...so if anyone wants their pkms in PLEASE EMAIL THEM TO ME ASAP!!! bustthenet@gmail.com

It would be so cool to see how these exotic systems play out.

Sent.

Hopefully in time...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I really want to instruct my MC's to go wide when in possession as I'm struggling to come up with a way to not have such a congested centre, hopefully I'll manage to come up with a solution before the start of the season.

Move into Channels + Roam From Position PIs??

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Assuming you are using a Windows PC, the only way I know of doing this is to resize the image using Paint before uploading it to the hosting site.

Right click the image, select Open With > Paint. Once open in Paint, select the Resize tool (top left), make sure "Percentage" is selected and adjust the numbers in the boxes - they'll be 100 to begin with, change to 50 or 75 or whatever. When done, save it and upload this newly resized image instead.

Thanks, I'm using a macbook. If resizing is the only way, I know what to do. I thought there it is possible to do it with "width=XXX".

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I participated last year but never finished as I had a hard time getting into Villareal. Hopefully I will have an easier time with St Etienne! Sign me up!

And congrats Jambo :)

Lippen - 442 Diamond Wide

Jambo, you can give my formation to someone else, right now really hard to motivate myself to play the game. Sorry, man.

No problem man.

I wish i had the 424 or 4312 narrow...I have some weird system that has an isolated dude upfront this should be fun. Me the guy who hates making defensive systems, has to make one now/

Well, i suppose thats part of the idea / fun of this. It takes us out of our tactical comfort zones and makes us try something different :)

This is superb, I would like to give it a go also :)

Edit: are there any particular rules that are in place other than you must use St Etienne and the set formation?

smp20 - 4123 Narrow

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Lippen - 442 Diamond Wide

No problem man.

Well, i suppose thats part of the idea / fun of this. It takes us out of our tactical comfort zones and makes us try something different :)

smp20 - 4123 Narrow

Brilliant thank you!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I want to get me facts right...we all have to take the same team? St Etienne right?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks for the pkms...just to make things easier, let me let you know how these will be featured. We will have a few shows where i will talk about my save, and then cover those who submitted pkms as highlights. That way we can "see" how these systems play. It would be helpful if you guys include:

Forum Name:

Twitter handle:

That way I can do a proper intro to the tactic quickly. Once again, thanks to those who submitted, the first show should be up tonight, and the next show will be up next Monday as well. So I will need pkms latest by Saturday.

Thank you

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This is going to be tough, my shape is a back 4, 1 MC, 2 AMC and 3 ST!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Just an update, the first show will be up shortly tonight, it has 3 tactics inside:

I do an explanation of what I am using ...3421 DM, we have jean's tactic, i think its the 4231 NarrowDM and Waldy's 343DM Wide.

What I do in the show is a detailed explanation of my tactic and then show one game, and the tactical changes i made. Then we show highlights of the other 2 systems. What is interesting is how they all play out, it does leave food for thought for making other tactics. I will update this post with a link to the video when its up

First video should be up shortly at close to noon which is in 30 mins from now. APOLOGIES I rushed this and had to annotate after uploading the video, will make the next one shorter and clearer

[video=youtube_share;SkI3Tl9UA2U]

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Lippen - 442 Diamond Wide

I think you might want to update your list with formations, Jambo. Can't find 442 Diamond Wide as a default one :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

OK. So is there a ridiculous formation that hasn't been used by anyone because it is so rubbish?

If so, what is it and can I have it please? :lol:

I will have a go using St Etienne and will play full-fat with my not so trusty IR button. (Should give you all a laugh at least).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I think you might want to update your list with formations, Jambo. Can't find 442 Diamond Wide as a default one :)

Ah sorry mate. I would love to know the reasoning behind some of the changes to the default formations (which never get mentioned in any change log!)

I will allocate you again - apologies.

Lippen - 451

OK. So is there a ridiculous formation that hasn't been used by anyone because it is so rubbish?

If so, what is it and can I have it please? :lol:

I will have a go using St Etienne and will play full-fat with my not so trusty IR button. (Should give you all a laugh at least).

Worth having a read of the OP mate, its not about getting allocated a formation, its a random choice. Your welcome if you want to get one randomly chosen.

That said, using instant result would pretty much make it pointless to be a part of this. The idea is to look at these unusual formations / shapes and see how they play out, how you can shape them into something. With IR.....well not really sure why you would be doing it?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Worth having a read of the OP mate, its not about getting allocated a formation, its a random choice. Your welcome if you want to get one randomly chosen.

That said, using instant result would pretty much make it pointless to be a part of this. The idea is to look at these unusual formations / shapes and see how they play out, how you can shape them into something. With IR.....well not really sure why you would be doing it?

Because I don't have the time I once had to play, I have had to resort to either FMC or IR for my FM fix. Tactical tweaking is much much much harder using IR, (and not possible during a game), but you can still set it up as best you can ahead of each fixture. Not everyone plays the game the same way nowadays.

Why would I want to? Well I guess to show that you either can, (or quite possibly can't in this case), get decent results without watching the game itself live. It's a challenge. It's meant to be hard isn't it? :lol:

As for being allocated a formation, I have just watched Rashidi1's video and he talked of being allocated one so apologies. I will go and re-read the OP now.

[Edit]

Nobody has gone for the 4-4-2 Sweeper formation, (for obvious reasons), so that seems just about ridiculous enough for me.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Right, finally after a crazy busy weekend of wedding and birthday shenanigans, i am getting some time to look at this.

First things first, off to watch the first part of rashidi's videos series. Think that is so awesome that your taking the time to do it Rash, cant wait to keep watching :)

Then i gotta start with the formation i got. 5212 Sweeper WB. Yikes a sweeper......been years since i even tried to make one of those work. With the shape having no DM, it feels like it is ripe for a Libero attempt. Really hard thing to get working, and im fairly sure i am not the man to do it, but i gotta give it a try!

Here is my opening salvo, based just on ideas and not even played one friendly yet:

OsLt0JO.jpg

Sticking to "standard" initially, i see no reason to deviate from that as a starting point as it only messes with other settings. Going with "fluid" but i am open to changing that once i see how the shape plays out, where the spaces are and how creative we look.

The roles start fairly vanilla. I want to try the Libero attack. Perrin has a PPM which will help ("gets forward whenever possible") and i have tried to set the midfield roles to allow him space to move into. The defend duty is a BWM, who should press rather than dropping back into the libero space. The AM i am going with support initially to give a bit more numbers in the middle when we need it. Up front just starting with a basic DLF / AF combo and tweak from there. I have also avoided the use of any other playmaker role,to help draw the ball towards the Libero.

Only 2 TI - "play out of defence", because i want to encourage the ball to end up with the Libero, rather than be lumped long. "Close down more" because with the shape between middle and front, i feel like i have the bodies to do a bit of pressing. I have not moved the dline up in parallel, because the pressing TI auto moves it a bit. Will see how the pressing looks.

So far the only PI are keeper distribution.

Lets see how this goes. Got bids in for both Correa on loan and Mammana (My advice is to avoid Alvarez Balanta....you get sucked in by his technical ability, but his mentals are too poor to be a good DC).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Hoping to get a formation if there are any free?

Yup sorry fella, i did see your reply but totally forgot!

jimmeth1985 - 4132 DM

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi Jambo,

Can I please sign up to this? A great idea mate :)

Please let me know what formation & team I can take

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Using 4222 DM Narrow is constantly seeing a fundamental behaviour issue that is doing my nut in & this is made worse by the fact that in the first few competitive matches I've come up against a 442 narrow diamond which only makes the problem worse & is resulting in some terrible passages of play.

Not sure I have the will to carry this on.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

So we're using a 3421 DM, not exactly my favourite system. I just lost two players to long term injury, just when I make a seemingly defensive looking system look attacking

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Using 4222 DM Narrow is constantly seeing a fundamental behaviour issue that is doing my nut in & this is made worse by the fact that in the first few competitive matches I've come up against a 442 narrow diamond which only makes the problem worse & is resulting in some terrible passages of play.

Not sure I have the will to carry this on.

Cleon wrote a series of articles (4 or 5 iirc) on his blog about the 4-2-2-2 starting here http://sisportscentre.com/the-santos-experience-so-it-begins-again/.

Hopefully that will help :).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Hi Jambo,

Can I please sign up to this? A great idea mate :)

Please let me know what formation & team I can take

Leemod - 4222 DM

Re team, please read the OP :)

Using 4222 DM Narrow is constantly seeing a fundamental behaviour issue that is doing my nut in & this is made worse by the fact that in the first few competitive matches I've come up against a 442 narrow diamond which only makes the problem worse & is resulting in some terrible passages of play.

Not sure I have the will to carry this on.

It might be useful if you are able to post up some details of the issue. If nothing else, we could get it detailed to one of the SI team as feedback (assuming it is an ME behavior issue?) once it is detailed?

Also if you want to start again with another tactic, if that one really is "bugged" then i see no issue, we still have a handfull of formations for the black box to pick from.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

SMP20's Update - August 2015



Ok so I've managed to get stuck into this and I have got through the first two months of the save. This is my top heavy formation:

91f9b87cf33a7914789fd5449615116f.png

And the team instructions to go with it:

d0618e8b5003197230703edc6e7caa49.png

For the first time in my FM playing history my default playing mentality will be defensive! The aim for this is simple, to draw back the AMCs to helping out in defence (ideally I want them to behave like box-to-box type players) and to ensure that we have a more cautious approach in possession. I've also opted for a 'Fluid' team shape as I want my playing lines to be close together, but I don't want my defensive trio (cb's and mc) to be too creative or get too far forward and I want my poacher to stay forward at all times. With a top heavy formation we are set up to win the ball high, so I've introduced a high d-line, much more closing down. I don't want my team to be wasteful in possession, in fact I want to go for a keep ball approach, because if we constantly lose the ball we are going to be very vulnerable to the counter. So I've gone for play out of defence, shorter passing and work ball into the box. However, I want to make use of the pace in the side and marauding wing backs by playing the ball into space and I've gone for higher tempo and dribble more to help us break down teams in a variety of ways.

Onto the player roles, I've opted for a sweeper keeper as we are using a high line but on defence duty as I don't want him to be too risky. I've gone for standard centre backs on defence duty. The key players in this system will be the CWBs, who will create the width in the team and help create space for the front 3 in the final third or provide crosses to them if they are left unmarked. With no DM cover, our MC is the water-carrier of the team and looks to switch play from a deep-lying role and pretty much stays back at all times. Our AMCs have very simple Attacking Mid Support roles and as mentioned before I want them to act as box-to-box players. Our front three is where I can see the most likeliness of role changes. At the moment I have two deep lying forwards either side of a Poacher.

Results

be150da5ce2ce36b4a584518e3c7f056.png

a9ff4cc6408e83cf22350a4e40fb23e8.png

4dd8e5d7ffc861aeb7e8e4883ebfc703.png

4dce70faa16a8ec6edf197af96a7b436.png

702c71c5b6b3101f3b52477d7e2d1f2c.png

An excellent start so far. The tactic is doing everything I wanted to; we are playing nice possession-based football, relatively solid at the back and we are creating chances. We were close to a 100% record but were held to a draw against Bastia in a game where we bizarrely missed two penalties and hit the woodwork twice. I've posted a few samples of our match stats. We are yet to face any real quality sides, the best being Bordeaux, so it will be interesting to see how this aggressive formation fares against the likes of PSG and rivals Lyon.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi,

This experiment looks very interesting, I'd love to join too. Lots of weird tactics left, I hope I won't get that 2-5-3 :D

Nice video by the way Rashidi, really useful as usual !

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Formation: 343

I wasn't planning on doing an update so soon after pre-season but its been an interesting start to the season.

As often happens friendly matches aren't a good reflection of how tactics work once in competitive games. Having been able to control possession in the friendlies I was initially expecting for this to follow on against smaller opposition but that simply didn't happen, maybe partly due to the formations we faced.

The two formations I initially encountered that caused problems were a 442 narrow diamond & a 41221 which both caused me problems in two main areas.

The biggest issue was the opposition fullbacks getting forwards into the natural space left at the back in the 343 where a DL/DR would be. Against the 442 narrow diamond my ML/MR were getting sucked too far infield to help out the MCs leaving space for the fullbacks to bomb into the space while against the 41221 the ML/MR would initially pick up the opposition AML/AMR but again follow them narrow leaving space outside for the fullbacks. Once the fullbacks overlapped the ML/MR or the DCL/DCR were slow to react to close them down leaving them free crosses into the box.

I tried a few ways to deal with it:

A) Role & duty of the ML/MR (Tried WM(d), WM(s), DW(d) & DW(s)).

B) ML/MR set to man mark the opposition fullbacks - Obviously caused more issues than it solved.

C) Using the stick to positions TI to try to encourage the ML/MR to stay wider.

D) Using the OIs to encourage more closing down/tighter marking on the opposition fullbacks.

Overall I've found the best way to deal with it at the moment to make us solid defensively is to use DW(d)s out wide along with adding close down more if the opposition fullbacks cause us a problem during a match. This has made us much more solid defensively but at the expense of some attacking threat.

The second issue was a mix of being able to keep the ball along with being able to transition it effectively to the front three without giving it away too much. This improved by using two support & one attacking striker up front to give the defence & midfield options but in truth I've had more success by playing the Leicester way not worrying about keeping the ball and simply playing more direct.

This has led to my formation looking like this mostly although I do tweak the striker roles depending on who is on the field (No TIs or PIs but I do tweak the TIs a little depending on what is happening during a match).

SE%203%20343%20formation.png

As I stated in my previous update I didn't make any signing and had no squad issues until Spurs made a bid for Perrin on deadline day. I didn't want to lose arguably my best DC and after falling out with him a little I ended up having to promise to sell him in the January window. This at least leaves me a few months to scout possible replacements. I did make a bid for a 20yo French DC to supplement the defence on deadline day but his agent was an arse and wanted £50k a month wages for him so the deal fell through.

Overall results went well and the team is settling into a rhythm:

SE%204%20August%20results.png

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Hi,

This experiment looks very interesting, I'd love to join too. Lots of weird tactics left, I hope I won't get that 2-5-3 :D

Nice video by the way Rashidi, really useful as usual !

Swissknife - 4141 DM Asymetric AM (CL)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Formation - 4222 DM Narrow

You've all seen my moans & for me the random selector could not have been any less kind as I do prefer an approach that stretches the width of the pitch before exploiting any gaps that have been created in the centre & this formation really does take me out of my comfort zone.

My initial attempt at putting together a system that I felt confident with were a bust, pre-season fixtures were poor & we limped into the Europa League playoff.

The initial thinking was that with some good wing backs the obvious choice was to use them to create my attacking width however I was unable to find a combination for the midfield 4 that prevented them bunching up in attack which blunted any threat in front of goal & in defence there was no cohesive approach so when possession was lost the wing backs would charge back rather than engage to win the ball back in the attacking third while receiving little in the way of support from midfield.

74DA0D1124DC85202E802EE5F54402F3C0FBC7D1

After a late defeat against Toulouse (Ref screwed us, 3.0 rating) I switch to a more defence first system, the wing backs were changed to limited full backs & flanked a pair of limited defenders, the plan being that if the opposition were going to score they'd have to work damn hard to create good scoring chances. Not much changed in midfield other than making much more use of specific man-marking instructions, I'll often have my MC's mark their opposite numbers or in some cases I'll have my strikers mark them or any DM's that are on the pitch, the addition of this man-marking approach means that my DM's tend to be free & are able to support by full-backs out wide.

One area that I am still struggling on a bit is in getting the right combination up front, I was hopeful that the DF(D) would naturally drop a lot deeper than they are currently doing but it's still early days.

49A128723711DF9FE2E0BB9D161A9F5819AAAF2C

Results so far

83663B97E3DD87AA4CEDBF090ACDB193BA60044A

For anyone who thinks that it is only human controlled clubs that can get done on the counter after having umpteen attempts at goal the next one is for you guys, we are giving up a lot of shots but since changing approach we have only given up 2 CCC's & 4 HC's.

C638E6EE9C4307EA856CB35DBEAD5BDED0D99C98

I did change things up a little in attack & that may have helped us net the 3 goals in the space of 4 minutes.

B357731D404DA78304CAE8302278E9A2500066CA

I then switched to my contain system for the final stages of the match.

8A503AD622569643BCA98C9447BC15AB713CB1F6

I also can't forget good fortune & that the football Gods are more than willing to redress the balance.

[video=youtube_share;EoYy1ESD9cM]

[video=youtube_share;eRrnPqDa6X8]

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Lateral movement from central areas is horribly frustrating, no end of times my wing backs have the ball and don't have any passing options because the central midfielders don't show for the ball

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×