Building a League's Reputation

[harryjam]

Just a quick few questions before I sign up to throw away my summer and much of my life.

What are the key points to building a League's reputation? What actually WORKS?

What Leagues (Europe) would people recommend to take on this challenge?

How long has it taken people to fulfil any kind of similar challenge?

Does anyone have any general pointers on how to succeed at this challenge?

Cheers

[forameuss]

- Winning.

- Any small league

- Ages

- Win

Might be flippant answers, but there's more than a grain of truth in them. The base for building a reputation is to get better at either one club (takes longer) or across multiple clubs. Winning gets you more money, which gets you better players...self-fulfilling prophecy. The only tip I'd give is have a whole load of patience. I've seen people complain when they haven't gotten several things after a couple of seasons.

[Plachy]

European success is the main thing, getting into that main draw for the CL is huge, it's a guaranteed 8-9m and can effectively fund a good 2-3 years of free transfers from top clubs. Which is pretty much the early game, building a team worth of frees capable of getting into the group stages at least every other season (with some Europa League seasons thrown in for good measure). Then the game becomes about incremental gains, progressively buying the balance of youth, free transfers and occasionally an established cast-off from a massive team (French/German sides are your hunting ground here).

On top of winning I think having higher profile players is a big factor - sure you could argue having a high ranked team means you can buy these but in my case I have a massive scouting network and buy players who I feel are going to be massive international stars but are playing outside the big leagues or have circumstances you can exploit (I have four World class players - one was poached from Mexico, one from Serbia, one was in Brazil with a release clause and the other French at PSG but angry at not playing at 19).

I'm doing Wales at present and I would possibly recommend avoiding this as I think it's 'broken' (the league has grown to top 15 but revenue simply has not meaning clubs are very strong but unable to make any money) - but if you want what I would regard as the hardest of hard leagues that's the one. Scandinavia is always fun for something that's accessible for someone who's never done a massive challenge like this (I've done 30 seasons now in Wales, forameuss did around 40 in the Gibraltar add-on which is an excellent read).

Also - forget about keeping good players in the early game, the board can and will sell them at a moments notice. Don't assume anyone will be there at the end of the window, but also ensure you have those contracts locked down. Keep scouting, keep a shortlist and have an idea how you will plan for life after each player. You might get lucky and keep your best players for 10 years, but don't expect it.

There's conflicting information about whether prize money/TV money scales at all in the smaller leagues - so this is something to be aware of, you might end up hitting a ceiling if you pick something really low down on the food chain.

Regardless of Wales/Scandinavia above, my real recommendation is this table https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UEFA_coefficient#Current_ranking - look down the list, find a nation you want to manage in and have fun. That's how I decided to play FM this year and I've had a blast. Goes without saying that for the most part the lower the nation, the harder the challenge.

[JWVG]

Just a quick few questions before I sign up to throw away my summer and much of my life.

What are the key points to building a League's reputation? What actually WORKS?

What Leagues (Europe) would people recommend to take on this challenge?

How long has it taken people to fulfil any kind of similar challenge?

Does anyone have any general pointers on how to succeed at this challenge?

Cheers

I think I will do something similar in the near future (again).

My thinking:

- Don't go too low or you will get demotivated quickly.

- Pick a league that is near an automatic CL group stage place.

- Pick a league that has a standard league format like from July/August to May.

- Pick a league without strict foreigner rules.

My favourites are: Austria, Switzerland, Czech, Denmark, Poland, Scotland.

Patience is key!

[Guest]

Picking a nation that has two or three clubs with the potential to be big sides is important, no point starting in a league where you'll be a clear dominant force because you pick the only club with the infrastructure & potential fanbase to compete in Europe.

[forameuss]

I think I will do something similar in the near future (again).

My thinking:

- Don't go too low or you will get demotivated quickly.

- Pick a league that is near an automatic CL group stage place.

- Pick a league that has a standard league format like from July/August to May.

- Pick a league without strict foreigner rules.

My favourites are: Austria, Switzerland, Czech, Denmark, Poland, Scotland.

Patience is key!

The only one of your bullet points I really agree with is the third. Demotivation is a very personal thing - I've seen people do saves where they spend forty seasons doing absolutely nothing without getting demotivated. It all depends on how you approach it. I'd also strongly disagree that you should pick a league near an automatic place. If you're doing that, then you're building a nation that is already pretty built. A lot of these kinds of challenges are done in places like Gibraltar, Wales, San Marino etc, where there's barely anything to start with. I don't think it takes a massive rebuilding to get any of the nations you mention to Champions League winners. A few

Number three, fair enough. It will help with the Champions League (although depends if you're definitely managing in Europe). Basically just manage a calendar which matches the calendar the Champions League has. Number four, I would probably disagree with too. If you really want to build towards the Champions League, you're going to need to start building your domestic players anyway. More foreigners might help in the short-term early on, but it causes big problems in Europe later on.

Picking a nation that has two or three clubs with the potential to be big sides is important, no point starting in a league where you'll be a clear dominant force because you pick the only club with the infrastructure & potential fanbase to compete in Europe.

Again, see where you're coming from, but I disagree about it being important. When I managed at Gibraltar I was Lincoln, who are already at a massive advantage. That let me build a side that could effectively dominate domestically (with a few slips) while concentrating on building the side that could do well in Europe. After a couple of decades, the other clubs also improved in line with them to the point where they started competing in the Europa League. I wouldn't say it's important to have direct competition initially, think it just shifts the challenge around.

[Guest]

As mentioned in another thread Gibraltar is an odd case due to what I see as fundamental issues with the data & testing that allow clubs to far exceed their logical limits due to the population & infrastructure, neither of which appear to be the limiting factor that they should be.

[forameuss]

As mentioned in another thread Gibraltar is an odd case due to what I see as fundamental issues with the data & testing that allow clubs to far exceed their logical limits due to the population & infrastructure neither of which appear to be the limited factor that they should be.

Oh yeah, there's definitely something there that seems to hit when you get towards the latter stages of the game. You mention population and infrastructure...is there something in place in the game that should stop these kinds of things happening? I remember in my previous Gibraltar save when I hit the stadium gold-rush that there was a discussion around where exactly they would build these stadiums. We eventually came up with either the sky or the sea, but is there something in FM that says "nation = small, no stadium"? Or are we purely going on the "it shouldn't happen"?

I don't think it changes the early stages though, and I was seeing clubs growing organically through the success I was having way before the TV deal and prize money situation went to pot. Early days it was mostly getting players that I had gotten in, gotten the use of, and then let go. And products of my youth academy that I was too stupid to tie down for longer. Of course, then the money went mental, and they started going similarly mental. I wasn't saying that what you were saying was incorrect, just that it's not necessarily the most important thing. It depends where you want your challenge to lie - do you want to fight hard early on domestically, or be able to set yourself up well on one front while chasing the other?

[Guest]

I don't think there is a data point that refers to the land mass of a nation which in the case of Gibraltar should act as a severe handbrake on any growth of the domestic clubs.

[hehehemann]

I started the same challenge in Belarus. Its pretty good to do, but does takes ages. After 10 seasons with Dinamo Minsk I am constantly the best in Belarus and qualify out of the group stages of the champ league each season. Made it to the semi's once but usually go out in the quarter finals.

I am about to leave Dinamo Minsk to improve another team in the league. I think thats the key, the more successful you can make the teams in your league the quicker the league rep grows as more teams do better in the euro comps. I would routinely sell my good players to other teams in the league just to get some competition.

The league is now rated 6th in the table by reputation and equal to the Russian league.

[Plachy]

What's your domestic league and FA cup prize money pot like? And has the TV money improved?

Belarus sounds like a really fun one to do. I always bottle taking over another side in the league though, get too attached.

[hehehemann]

Plachy - I cant remember off hand what the money is but I do know its been steadily climbing. I see the values of players climb too, first few seasons I was buying for cheap, players could be as little as 50k but now they are usually selling around 250k.

I know what you mean by getting attached, I was only going to stay at Dinamo for 4 seasons before taking another club up the ladder but I became attached to the youth coming through

[Plachy]

Wait, your league is ranked 6th in Europe and you can only sell players for 250k? Is that a typo?

[hehehemann]

Yes sorry, 2.5mil It should have been. Its still low compared to other leagues but it does rise gradually.

[GamingwithRobyt]

I'm currently doing a youth challenge/building a league challenge on youtube, I'm Lillestrom from Norway and its been great fun and a very rewarding challenge.

A few pointers, patience is the key, you're going to get beat, especially in Europe. I've had 3 seasons in the champions league, managed to get into the group stage, but I'm yet to win a group game!

The season runs from April to November, I've not found it to be a issue (yet)

I'm interested to see if the TV money improves, its not moved from 40k per game and 4 seasons in.

[Plachy]

It does seem to be an area they need to develop for dynamic league reputation to really make sense. I've been to the knockout stages of the CL and reached the Europa League semi and I get 400k a season from the league with the 'you're on tele' money usually at 4k

I think reiterating you will get mullered for a lot of seasons in the CL is important though, you're there to try and sneak a couple of points for coefficient reasons, but not much else for quite a number of years.

[James_Fraser]

Tv money will improve as the league improves. Example being Gibraltar. Jack's (workthesapce) save on YouTube, the Gibraltar first division has just hit 30th in Europe and all the clubs have just received £74 million in tv deals. The prize money from cups and the league will also improve as rep does.

[forameuss]

Tv money will improve as the league improves. Example being Gibraltar. Jack's (workthesapce) save on YouTube, the Gibraltar first division has just hit 30th in Europe and all the clubs have just received £74 million in tv deals. The prize money from cups and the league will also improve as rep does.

Which is the "bug" that was being talked about. I've benefited from it on a couple of occasions, but there is no way a TV deal worth £74 million should sprout out of nowhere. In FM14, I received mine suddenly in 2066, and got £78.4 million. Two years later it was £100 million. Now bear in mind this is exclusively for the Premier Division. At the time of creation, you play 14 games there (it's 21 now), meaning you're essentially getting about £7.14 million a game.

In FM15, it was 2042 when it jumped, going from nothing to £64.8 million. Then the next season up to £78.4 million. The next, £87.52 million (think I worked it out at around £24,000 a goal. Bargain.). It levelled out the next season, once again hitting £100 million.

Competition prize money also went a bit ridiculous in FM15. The Rock Cup - four games - netted us £8 million for winning it. Without pouring through the career thread in any more detail, can't quite remember how much league prize money you had at the end, but I believe it was around the 120 million mark.

Using Gibraltar as a way of saying that TV money does improve isn't the best example.

EDIT: Actually, I was wrong saying you got £8 million for the Rock Cup. That was just for starters. It then rose to £81 million (touch over 20m a game) and levelled out at - you guessed it - £100 million. For four games. Four.

[James_Fraser]

Well jacks just finished season 17 when the bug hit. If it is a bug

[forameuss]

Well jacks just finished season 17 when the bug hit. If it is a bug

It's either a bug, or it's considered totally sensible that a country like Gibraltar can have no TV deal (and I mean none, we were receiving zero TV money) one day, and then have one worth over 70 million a club the next. The Kings of throwing TV money around like it's going out of fashion, the EPL, according to one site got around £55 million from their collective deals per season per club, and could stand to earn as much as £80 million under the new deals.

I feel pretty confident that you can say it's a bug that Gibraltar should grow a similar deal to the Premier League overnight from nowhere, whilst at the same time playing almost half the number of games that they do in England.

Plus, the earlier it happens, the worse it seems. Like I said, happened after about 50 season in FM14, and in that case you could argue that there's been big changes in World football that can justify it. FM15, happened after about 30, so perhaps stretching realism, although I was more successful. After 17 seasons? Nah. Something is clearly wrong.

[Plachy]

It's a bug one way or t'other. Watched some of the WTS videos back yesterday and he's made database changes on top of installing the add-on, things like improving facilities and reputation which makes the early game a tonne easier (this should not be underestimated, by upgrading your facilities to his level you give yourself a 20-30m headstart on the rest of GIB), and the first pro-seasons even easier. So I would discount his save from forameuss whose is actually the real deal with the unedited add-on. I'm never too comfortable complaining about a database that was edited.

The Gibraltar league (as played by forameuss) has the hardest early game of any challenge of the official databases, no doubt, no question. The default league settings just make forameuss' achievements in the early game remarkable. The end game however gets so much easier because TV deals are received which you would not receive in any of the weakest default leagues.

Either the bug is that Wales, N. Ireland et al should receive these TV deals as well after 30 seasons or Gibraltar shouldn't. The additional argument is that Gibraltar's should be even lower than the others but I'm not 100% sure that's fair given the lack of precedent for all of our remarkable FM achievements. Some clarity is required though.

[JWVG]

Regarding Gibraltar and league reputation:

-I'm approaching my 6th season and there has been no improvement, I play with the original SI database (club is Man 62) and the league rep in 2015 was 216th, now in 2020 it is 283rd!

-I won the league now 3 times in a row but failed to qualify even for the second round of the CL-Quali, last season it was close.

-I have now over 1M € at the bank but all of my players are on non-contract. When I started in 2015 pretty much all players had part-time contracts which led to a big depth in my finances.

-My players in the sixth season are probably worse than they are in the first, I can only sign weaker players and most players want to stay at their clubs anyway. My better players are getting old and I can't replace them.

-I was able to upgrade the training facilities one time, from poor to basic. I could afford another upgrade but the board won't let me.

-I don't know if I should carry on to be honest...

[forameuss]

Regarding Gibraltar and league reputation:

-I'm approaching my 6th season and there has been no improvement, I play with the original SI database (club is Man 62) and the league rep in 2015 was 216th, now in 2020 it is 283rd!

-I won the league now 3 times in a row but failed to qualify even for the second round of the CL-Quali, last season it was close.

-I have now over 1M € at the bank but all of my players are on non-contract. When I started in 2015 pretty much all players had part-time contracts which led to a big depth in my finances.

-My players in the sixth season are probably worse than they are in the first, I can only sign weaker players and most players want to stay at their clubs anyway. My better players are getting old and I can't replace them.

-I was able to upgrade the training facilities one time, from poor to basic. I could afford another upgrade but the board won't let me.

-I don't know if I should carry on to be honest...

If you're wanting to give up after just 6 seasons then you probably won't get on very well with Gibraltar. It's a very long term save, and it'll take 20 or so seasons before you're even competing.