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ThunderChief 16.3 - Lower League Special. Back to Back promotions with Academy Team


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Greetings all,

Not posted for a while, got into something else as I found FM16 disappointing however I’m doing a Youth Academy Challenge and have the old enthusiasm for the game again despite its obvious flaws. I’ve played over 1000 games across Conference North/South and National with various teams of relative strength from absolute no hopers to mid level and stronger teams.

I’ve tried all the usual suspects in terms of formations, 41212, 4132, 442, 4312, 41221, 4231 seeking the formation which will give the right ‘shape’ and pitch coverage in both offensive and defensive phases.

All the while tweaking team and player instructions, trying to get exactly the right balance.

It can be pretty difficult to assess a tactic when you are outclassed by just about every team in the division, however having just achieved back to back promotions with a team of my own academy players, getting out of League 2 at the first time of asking with a team of 18 year olds rated as decent for Conference South/North, i'm happy the tactic is punching well above its weight.

Doing an Academy challenge means i can't sign any players and can only develop and use my own youth prospects, in other words you lean very heavily on a solid tactic as you cannot simply just sign better players.

7PoHEBt.jpg

DOWNLOAD - https://www.mediafire.com/?3u73s23c48br54f

So we've ended up with a 41221, although we have 5 Attack duties, we have fairly neutral team mentalities, a dedicated holding midfielder and team instructions which help with our defensive solidity. We get a lot of clean sheets actually which has helped us massively nick narrow wins.

To all intents and purposes you have a front 3 with the inside forwards running beyond our DLF much of the time. Support is provided by over lapping Full Backs and runners from midfield.

The goal scoring & creating burden is well spread across the team.

We dominate possession in all games, impose ourselves physically, disrupt opponents attacks by constant fouling, create more, higher quality chances and come out on top more often than not.

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Back to back promotions, predicted to finish last on both occasions.

Although i've only used it in the lower leagues so far normally tactics that work down there are just as effective in top leagues.

I use it as a plug and play, Home & Away without changing it.

I use subs liberally, after about 65/70 minutes, replacing those players tiring or playing poorly, all 3 subs nearly every match.

PLAYER TYPES

As I’m doing an academy challenge I have to utilise whatever I can get so I can’t experiment here.

However on this match engine physical/mental attributes seem to be dominant, your Striker doesn’t need to be a great finisher if he is quick enough to be first to a cross at the back post to tap into an empty net, its far easier to anticipate and intercept a pass than make a successful tackle, players who can find space are absolutely golden, either via player instructions or inherent ability….. or ideally both.

Anyway, it’s still 6 months until FM17, the ME is not gonna change so I hope this brings you some success.

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Good to see you back, Rosler. Fix your screenshots, btw. :)

It's interesting to see you've stumbled upon a tactic which works well with youths only, certainly sounds impressive. Since you have attacking fullbacks, how does the team cope with crosses to the far post? Is it more of "we'll score more than you tactic" or "create just enough to win by one or two"?

Most of the tactics out there have been gung-go this year.

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Hi Shirajzl,

Full Backs even with attack duty are more conservative than wingbacks.

Check the defensive record in my promotion season from the conference, best in division, less than a goal a game.

This is with a poor team.

Even with Fullbacks on defend you'd concede from crosses, every full back, even non league can cross like David Beckham. That's just the game this year and you cannot reliably defend the far post.

You can restrict those chances though.

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Massive fan of your tactics as you know Mr U Rosler. So I shall have a play with this later with my Mansfield team in the PL.

Currently using Frankys Stealth Bomber, so should have the correct players hopefully.

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I actually gave it a go with a Spurs games i'd started.

I was already 8 Games in and unbeaten. Played 5 or 6 matches with this tactic. Just plugged it in as was, don't think they even had chance to train with it before my first game. Where I scored after 15 seconds. I was 5-0 up at half time, finished 6-1. Still unbeaten. Had a couple of 0-0's despite total domination, both keepers got MoM.

Haven't played a big time with it yet, I think the next match I had was Man Utd, so will see how it goes :)

Pretty solid tactic though from what I can see. Another masterpiece from your collection :)

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I've been using this in Hungarian first division. *Initially* it was awesome. It took approximately 4 or 5 games before opponents starting throwing a 4-4-2 against me. Every. Single. Game. My last couple of games, I started man marking the two forwards and playing the DM as a halfback, and completely blew the 4-4-2 away. We'll see what they start doing now.

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Quick update for you and its a good one.

I went 20 Games unbeaten in the league before finally losing to Man City. Won the league in the end by 9 points along with the FA Cup and the Europa League, this was pretty much with the starting squad.

This tactic is once again a masterpiece :)

I had a few wobbles losing 4-1 to West Brom and a few ****** draws, but mostly I battered the big teams.

Beat Liverpool 4-0 in the Europa League final and Chelsea 4-1 in the FA Cup Final.

I spent the last month without Eriksen and Dembele due to injury.

Son was my top scored from the AMR position with 29 Goals and Kane in second with 26 goals.

Walker was tipped to get player of the season but missed out. Son won Young Player of the season and I won Manager of the year.

Interesting to see how I can strengthen and build on this.

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For choose the players can I follow the suggestions from TESTUDO?

I think it is more closely related to the attributes mentioned in TIANXIA : http://community.sigames.com/showthread.php/447837-Tianxia-All-Under-Heaven-for-16-2

With the only difference to look more into physical attributes especially quickness for DLF & IF's and centre backs too I guess (still biggest threat being balls over the top?).

Mr. Rosler, correct me if I'm wrong.

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I think it is more closely related to the attributes mentioned in TIANXIA : http://community.sigames.com/showthread.php/447837-Tianxia-All-Under-Heaven-for-16-2

With the only difference to look more into physical attributes especially quickness for DLF & IF's and centre backs too I guess (still biggest threat being balls over the top?).

Mr. Rosler, correct me if I'm wrong.

Pretty much bang on :thup:

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Played 16 league games & 5 friendlies on a Barnsley save with this formation and won 20 lost 1. Very good formation plug and play as described.

Going to start a new Leeds United save trying to spend as little as possible / money generated from sales only and see how I get on.

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Rosler, What do you do with Individual training? Any particular preferences IE training for the position they are playing or leave to Assistant?

I don't do a lot of individual training, they always seem to moan about there work load when I try that.

I retrain to different positions a fair bit as required and that works well, as i'm doing an academy save anyone with any potential gets a lot of game time anyway and that will improve players faster than anything else anyway.

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Thanks Rosler. Just another thing, I read on your Nemesis thread for FM 15.3 that when you started in the Lower Leagues, looking at the four main areas you need to focus on for each position, that you would only consider two of each for that far down. Is that the same principle here? Struggling so far to try and get anyone near good enough using those filters at the minute as I have just started the Dafuge Challenge (without posting updates as simply don't have the time these days).

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Thanks Rosler. Just another thing, I read on your Nemesis thread for FM 15.3 that when you started in the Lower Leagues, looking at the four main areas you need to focus on for each position, that you would only consider two of each for that far down. Is that the same principle here? Struggling so far to try and get anyone near good enough using those filters at the minute as I have just started the Dafuge Challenge (without posting updates as simply don't have the time these days).

Yeah, the lower down you are the less choosy you can be.

It might be a case of simply identifying someone better than you currently have regardless of attributes.

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i give this a go and it isnt working for me at BVB, the amount of yellow cards i have received is unreal, got 13 in 3 games and 2 reds. any suggestions mate? tactic is fully fluid, not dominating anywhere on the field, got outplayed by Frankfurt at home, they had more shots more possession.

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i give this a go and it isnt working for me at BVB, the amount of yellow cards i have received is unreal, got 13 in 3 games and 2 reds. any suggestions mate? tactic is fully fluid, not dominating anywhere on the field, got outplayed by Frankfurt at home, they had more shots more possession.

Form fluctuates throughout the season, need to run a full season to see if it works for you.

Red Cards should stop, i normally get 3 or 4 a season tops, again for some reason they come in batches. You'll always get a lot of yellow though.

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Form fluctuates throughout the season, need to run a full season to see if it works for you.

Red Cards should stop, i normally get 3 or 4 a season tops, again for some reason they come in batches. You'll always get a lot of yellow though.

no worries cheers mate, what is your pre season training and match prep etc.. i normally put it all the way to the left until fluid and have it on tactical and match tactics? is that right? sorry mate like i said before i need spoon feeding this stuff, but i only use your tactics i refuse to use any others

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If I'm getting called for a lot of fouls I'll call off the (fouling) dogs. If a player gets a yellow I will pay very close attention and tweak his instructions or sub him. If I'm the dominant team I'll play wider or faster or more fluid. This is not necessarily a play it and forget it tactic. It could be. But I have found it's a great base that works well with subtle tweaks.

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okey.. thanks mate.. =) is this tactic just for small teams or can it work with good teams to??

Should work with a good team, any tactic is likely to benefit from higher player quality.

I've got a reworked version which is performing better, i'll just finish my current season and put it up.

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Should work with a good team, any tactic is likely to benefit from higher player quality.

I've got a reworked version which is performing better, i'll just finish my current season and put it up.

Looking forward to it...

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do u change to attack or counter sometimes?? o just go with normal all time??

If I am losing possession higher up the pitch (attackers being careless or reckless) I have had luck switching to counter, but I always accompany with pushing the line higher.

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this is pretty good for the lower leagues, at least for me. Took over Tonbridge in 2016 , picked to finish dead last and 20 matches in i am currently sitting 10th. only lost twice but have a crap load of draws. around 12 but thats most likely due to my lack of quality players.

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V.2 is here.

https://www.mediafire.com/?dbcd02ownohgzm0

Player roles are the same, its a change in emphasis on the team instructions, I was getting bored with dominating possession but constantly having to break down massed defences + getting countered so I've upped the tempo, made it a bit more direct and stopped forcing play up the flanks.

I think there is point where you can have too much possession, the best chances come when you win the ball and you can catch your opponent before they can get back in their defensive shape, happy to give up a bit of the ball to allow these situations to occur more often. Against an equal team I would expect 55/45 possession in your favour which to my mind is about the right balance.

20 years into an academy save so my achievements wont mean much to anyone else but was 12th in the Championship when I switched halfway through the season, we made a run and got automatic promotion to the Premier League, we then got related from the Premier League in the last 10 minutes of the last game, before comfortably winning the Championship the next season and now consolidating in mid table in the Premier League.

Like I say, I'm only using my own academy players, I have 4 or 5 rated as good premier league players but my central defensive pair are rated as decent for League 2.

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Hi, have been following this with interest and as a long time lurker decided to sign up :)

Doing a similar thing with Maidenhead United, taking them into League 1 from the VNS, but finding it very tough (on FM touch on an iPad) love to try your tactic, could you do a screenshot of the tactical options page? Download for fm touch does not work.

cheers!

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Excellent. I have read many of your threads over the years and you have come up with a lot of very interesting and successful tactics.

After promotion to the EPL in my first season, we were doing ok against these top flight teams but not great.

We then went on a horrendous run and slipped down the table.

My tactic wasn't the best but seemed solid enough but I need to change something.

So will give this one a go and hopefully results will improve.

Thanks

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Mr Rosler. I would like to make your 4-1-2-2-1 into a 4-2-3-1 by moving the DMC up to the AMC position. This brings up the following questions.

1. How would this effect the original tactic?

2. What role/duties would be the best for the AMC?

Thank you.

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Mr Rosler. I would like to make your 4-1-2-2-1 into a 4-2-3-1 by moving the DMC up to the AMC position. This brings up the following questions.

1. How would this effect the original tactic?

2. What role/duties would be the best for the AMC?

Thank you.

First off you'd need to drop the 2 central midfielders down a duty so CM/D & CM/S.

The AMC needs to be on Support duty as the Inside Forwards are on attack. I'd suggest just bog standard AMC/Support or Advanced Play Maker/Support.

You will likely score more and concede more, stronger teams may well benefit from this set up, weaker teams will not.

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First off you'd need to drop the 2 central midfielders down a duty so CM/D & CM/S.

The AMC needs to be on Support duty as the Inside Forwards are on attack. I'd suggest just bog standard AMC/Support or Advanced Play Maker/Support.

You will likely score more and concede more, stronger teams may well benefit from this set up, weaker teams will not.[/quote

Many thanks Mr Rosler.

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19 yellow cards in 12 games. Is this a bit excessive? Should I 'hold back' the main offenders with the hardness of their tackles?

19 yellows in 12 games is fine, bit on the low side if anything.

Suspensions gives you a chance to rest players and give others game time. I wouldn't worry about it.

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I won the championship with Leeds United at the first attempt and finished 4th in the first season of the Premiership again solely using this tactic. 3rd seasons seems to have gone downhill slightly, have improved the team massively but not getting the results it was.

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I won the championship with Leeds United at the first attempt and finished 4th in the first season of the Premiership again solely using this tactic. 3rd seasons seems to have gone downhill slightly, have improved the team massively but not getting the results it was.

You improved the team massively --> this might mean that the team needs time to "gel" ?

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I think part of it was due to one particular player with high aggression, low decisions, and terribly low tackling in the DM position.

Is there anything in particular I need to be look for with the ST? Every striker I have is struggling to score, IF's are all good though!!

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I think part of it was due to one particular player with high aggression, low decisions, and terribly low tackling in the DM position.

Is there anything in particular I need to be look for with the ST? Every striker I have is struggling to score, IF's are all good though!!

You have a front 3, the central striker is often the deeper of the 3 with the IF's in advanced positions so in this set up i wouldn't expect him to be the leading scorer although he should get his share.

I would favour a creative player here, passing, visions, flair and look at his assists, key passes etc to judge performance as well as goals.

Anyone noted as a 'consistent performer' in his report would be very useful here.

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Greetings,

I am finding V.2 a very good tactic but I was wondering

With a narrow lead in the second half would it be beneficial to switch back to the more possession based V.1?

Also, having never posted before, may I say 14.3's Doom of Men was outstanding with Newcastle winning all competitions most seasons :)

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