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Bert44

Gaps and lack of support

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Hello

Playing with Atletico Madrid and having a hard time getting some consistency.

-Struggling to get my midfield to work as i want. I want my wp a Koke to be my main creator, producing the assist and a few goals. I feel he doesnt do that as of now, have my wb a on his side to provide width and options when Koke cuts inside but I feel they get too close to each other resulting in Koke getting isolated. Koke also isnt getting up to support the attack as much as I want. When my forwards get the ball Koke is miles away as is the rest of my midfield.

- Also lacking support from my central midfielders, big gap between my central mids and forwards. Forwards dont get support from my midfield when they get the ball. I know there is rather hard to close the gaps in a 442 but how can I close this gap between my central mids and forwards when in possesion? I feel I have to have atleast one cm on d to help my defense?

Team instructions

Fluid, standard at home and counter away. Close down more, play out of defense, stick to positions.

Player instructions

G, distribute to fbs. Fb a, tackle harder, rwb. Cd d, mark tighter, close down less. Wb a, tackle harder, rwb. W s, close down more, tackle harder. B2b s, none added PI. Dpl d, close down less. Df s, none added PI. Adv f a, roam from posistion.

atletico-formation-tactics.png

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I'm playing with a Leicester style tactic, which isn't far off an Atletico one. One thing that has really revolutionised how it plays and really getting those forwards involved was using 2 defensive forwards. One on defend and one on support. It works really well to get them to close down and they still have plenty of movement and attacking impetus, much more than I expected.

Defensive forwards are also quite flexible and you can add PI's as you wish. My DF/D i add 'hold up ball' and the support one I add ' Move into channels'. This creates more of a target man style attack.

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Before you read any further, I'd like to make it clear that I'm no expert on the tactical mechanics of FM, like most others I like to trial & error as I go along.

Hello

Playing with Atletico Madrid and having a hard time getting some consistency.

-Struggling to get my midfield to work as i want. I want my wp a Koke to be my main creator, producing the assist and a few goals. I feel he doesn't do that as of now, have my wb a on his side to provide width and options when Koke cuts inside but I feel they get too close to each other resulting in Koke getting isolated. Koke also isnt getting up to support the attack as much as I want. When my forwards get the ball Koke is miles away as is the rest of my midfield. - there's another thread in here related to this tactic, try setting Koke as a WP-Su, and the wing back to WB-Su, see if that helps Koke sit inside playing through-balls and using the overlap. I also think you'll be caught on the counter unless you change to Control, as both your FBs are attacking all game. You could try setting them to Automatic? So they only get forward when you are attacking as a team during the matches?

- Also lacking support from my central midfielders, big gap between my central mids and forwards. Forwards don't get support from my midfield when they get the ball. I know there is rather hard to close the gaps in a 442 but how can I close this gap between my central mids and forwards when in possession? I feel I have to have at least one cm on d to help my defense? - You could try changing the role of your DLP-De to a BWM-De, you'll lose some of the creativity of the DLP, but then you have your WP tucking in anyway.

Team instructions

Fluid, standard at home and counter away. Close down more, play out of defense, stick to positions. - Looks ok to me

Player instructions

G, distribute to fbs. Fb a, tackle harder, rwb. Cd d, mark tighter, close down less. Wb a, tackle harder, rwb. W s, close down more, tackle harder. B2b s, none added PI. Dpl d, close down less. Df s, none added PI. Adv f a, roam from position.

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Just a couple of observations - I'd add the 'Get Further Forward' instruction to your BBM to encourage more support for your attackers. I'd remove 'Stick to Positions' from your team instructions as this in theory is making your team static and (obviously) encouraging players to stick to their position. Therefore your midfielders won't break from their strata to support an attack etc.

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I think you are dealing with two problems here. First is the ME issue and I dont think you're going to fix it. Simply put the playmaker roles are not as effective as some other roles in current ME like wingers or FBs. Not only for human players but AI also. World class playmakers, IFs don't produce enough assists during the season. Generally their play looks solid and improved but the current ME is more biased towards crossing. If this goal scoring diversity was improved for FM17 it could be a outstanding ME. This is probably the reason why Koke is underperforming.

The second thing is the 442 formation and how you set it. The problem might be the Pass from defence TI. Biggest advantage in 442 are two forwards and double threat on flanks and Quick transition it can produce. I think Pass out of defense is a veryposessional shout which slows things down in start. Good for holding posession when in lead. I think what you want is to be quick in transition but not to hoof balls. Try the combination of short passing, pass into space and clear ball to flanks. I think the AI uses this the CBtF shout a lot. It creates the quick transition you want without unnescesary hoofing and you defenetly have the quality to be effective with this combo. Change the tempo depending on situation, lower it if you want to control whats happening or higher tempo in counter tactics if you want to unsettle. Try things out, I would remove Stick to position TI..

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I think you are dealing with two problems here. First is the ME issue and I dont think you're going to fix it. Simply put the playmaker roles are not as effective as some other roles in current ME like wingers or FBs. Not only for human players but AI also. World class playmakers, IFs don't produce enough assists during the season

Please stop spreading misinformation. This is not true or accurate and is just your opinion, not a fact. Just because you can't achieve something doesn't mean it isn't possible.

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Compare player stats to real life most of top assists are from fullbacks or wingers. Also av. Ratings. These are facts. And I'm not in crossing bug is making this game unpayable camp. Imo this ME is miles better than any before. Is it perfect? No. Can it improve? Yes. Cheers.

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-Struggling to get my midfield to work as i want. I want my wp a Koke to be my main creator, producing the assist and a few goals. I feel he doesnt do that as of now, have my wb a on his side to provide width and options when Koke cuts inside but I feel they get too close to each other resulting in Koke getting isolated. Koke also isnt getting up to support the attack as much as I want. When my forwards get the ball Koke is miles away as is the rest of my midfield.

I'd reverse the striker roles and have them on the other side. Koke will play better and be a better creator with someone dropping off the front and coming deep to help him out. It also means he has options. At the minute I can see why he's a bit isolated because he has no options around him or any real support.

- Also lacking support from my central midfielders, big gap between my central mids and forwards. Forwards dont get support from my midfield when they get the ball. I know there is rather hard to close the gaps in a 442 but how can I close this gap between my central mids and forwards when in possesion? I feel I have to have atleast one cm on d to help my defense?

In a 442 the support mainly comes from the wingers and maybe 1 central midfielder. You want Koke to be the main playmaker yet use a DLP along side him, I'm not sure this helps. The midfield and forwards will see a gap because look at the roles you use. You use one really advanced striker and one slightly more deeper. Then in midfield you use a DLP who hands back nearly all the time and a box to box midfielder who can get caught in his own half an awful lot. If you want more midfield support then you want a role what is more attacking oreinetated rather than being a dual role like a box to box midfielder. A better midfield pairing for what you want to achieve would actually be a CM defend and a CM support/attack

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Compare player stats to real life most of top assists are from fullbacks or wingers. Also av. Ratings. These are facts. And I'm not in crossing bug is making this game unpayable camp. Imo this ME is miles better than any before. Is it perfect? No. Can it improve? Yes. Cheers.

That's down to systems people use. But again, what you are saying is not a FACT it's just an opinion. If it was a fact then you'd not be able to get other roles to get lots of assists. It's all about the set up and how it works. It's quite possible and easy to have central players get lots of assists and high ratings. It all comes back to the system.

You're spreading misinformation please stop, this isn't the first time you've been told about this either in recent months. No role is more effective than any other role. It's all down to how you set up and utilise the roles.

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Thanks for the help, really great advices

What do you think of my fullbacks, wb a and fb a? The reason for setting them to attack is that they are very gifted offensive(Luis, Juanfran). My striker pairing is built from the "real life" atletico where they expect both strikers to work hard and put pressure on the opponents, still cant fully get the most out of them. Adv f (griezmann) and Martinez(df s) what do you think of this?

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What misinformation? It's been officially acknowldged by SI they are awere of crossing/FB/assists/av. Rating issues. I am fine with the fact it wasn't an easy fix. And if the scorelines are ok and they are and if the FBs are leading the assists charts and they are then it also means they get a share of someones's alse assists.

It doesn't mean that maybe you or me can't make better decisions than AI to a degree. But in AI vs AI world that's what's happening anyway. I'm hardly spreading any misinfo if I'm saying you can expect more chances from crossing than from your playmakers I would say. Everybody knows that.

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What misinformation? It's been officially acknowldged by SI they are awere of crossing/FB/assists/av. Rating issues. I am fine with the fact it wasn't an easy fix. And if the scorelines are ok and they are and if the FBs are leading the assists charts and they are then it also means they get a share of someones's alse assists.

It doesn't mean that maybe you or me can't make better decisions than AI to a degree. But in AI vs AI world that's what's happening anyway. I'm hardly spreading any misinfo if I'm saying you can expect more chances from crossing than from your playmakers I would say. Everybody knows that.

This is the misinformation;

Simply put the playmaker roles are not as effective as some other roles in current ME like wingers or FBs

This is simply not true. I'm fully aware (probably more than most) what the bugs are and what SI have and haven't acknowledged but that does not change the fact that a playmaker CAN be as effective as the wingers, wingbacks, fullbacks etc. Again it comes back to how you set up. I've posted about playmakers and roles that don't rely on crosses that are the heartbeat of a team and get just as many assists, goals and high ratings as those who take advantage of the crossing. In your post you are saying this isn't possible at all, hence the spreading of misinformation because myself and other have shown it can be achieved.

What do you think of my fullbacks, wb a and fb a? The reason for setting them to attack is that they are very gifted offensive(Luis, Juanfran). My striker pairing is built from the "real life" atletico where they expect both strikers to work hard and put pressure on the opponents, still cant fully get the most out of them. Adv f (griezmann) and Martinez(df s) what do you think of this?

Why don't you observe games and see how they are all linking up and focus on what the player does both with and without the ball. You should be able to tell in seconds if the roles/duty are the correct ones with how involved in play they are and based on what they're actually doing. That's the best way of finding out if they do or don't work.

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I always watch my games. The reason for asking about my fbs is that my wp a and w s has ppm cut inside, so therefore I set my fbs to attack to provide some width in attack. So to recap where I stand now: switch my central mids to cm d and cm s, switch side of my strikers so df s is on Kokes side (wp a). Still have some doubts over the other striker role (adv f a), I want him to put pressure on the opponent but still be my main goalscorer. Any ideas?

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Yeah BBM seems to rely a lot on their ppm and attributes as to whether they will support attacks enough. Obviously gets forward whenever possible would be great. Then there's potentially work rate, off the ball, anticipation and vision that may all help. Not too sure.

If your side players tuck in a lot the central midfielders won't see much open space in front of them so wouldn't get forward as much as they otherwise would (although you said you don't see them tucking in as much as expected- as previously mentioned the stick to positions instruction might be the issue).

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You want the WP to be the main creative man, yet you've stuck him next to a DLP... Id suggest changing the DLP to a CM and see if that helps. Also, exploit Left Flank may encourage more passing down that side.

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I would be scared of using two attacking wing/fullbacks with no DMC. I don't think you need your right fullback to be on attack duty.

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Well I changed my team, cm d and cm s and switched side of the strikers. Night and day now very happy with the changes, thank you very much!

Have some questions regarding when my team is losing and chasing goals, what do you do? I often start with standard strategy, but what to do when go offensive without changing strategy and chasing goals? Push d line up or some other things. The leading team will I suppose drop deeper and pushing my dline will invite to counterattacks so that maybe isnt so wise. Give me some advices please

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If I'm chasing the game I assume the other team will start sitting in defending deep. I might move some players higher up in the formation but the mentality will decrease to become more cautious and patient.

Gung ho attacking play only works well when there are gaps to exploit.

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Into my second season after winning the league. Now the fun starts, teams will probably be more defensive against my team. So whats the best options to avoid the second season slump? without changing my formation and tactic to much. Made one change so far going from counter to standard with closing down sometimes, but this could possibly mean that I invite my opponent to counter on me if Im to high up the pitch. So stay with counter or go with standard? When I was chasing goals in the first season I often added pass into space and sometimes removed be more disciplined and set close down more in the TI. And even sometimes added run at defence.

So now what changes would you do to make my tactic working and avoiding the second season slump?

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