Problems with goals from crossings and fullback's ratings and assists - influence on your play

[Edgar]

I'm just curious of the size of the problem and want to become convinced if people who cannot play the game because of mentioned problems are really in minority.

[benjawi.]

Not a problem for me, but on all versions of FM I've always played with wingers and overlapping full backs. I see plenty of goals through the middle of the pitch and even a good portion of mine aren't scored through crosses, even though I'm set up to have my wide players smashing the ball into the box from the wing.

[hm86]

I chose the unplayable option, I do still play the game but less and less now as almost all of my goals are from crosses and when you see the opposition making a pass out wide you can almost guarantee you will concede from the resulting cross.

It doesn't matter who or where I manage I notice it and it makes the 'key highlights' a bit boring as soon as you see the ball moving out wide you know there is a goal coming.

[HUNT3R]

I'd advise those struggling tactically, to post in the Tactics forum and provide all the info they require. There's a sticky thread about asking for help.

[stevemc]

I notice there is an issue, but I set my tactics up to accommodate it so its not as much of an issue now.

[Edgar]

I notice there is an issue, but I set my tactics up to accommodate it so its not as much of an issue now.

How did you set up your tactics?

[Ross Ingersoll]

no issue at all. If people wernt going on and on about it i wouldnt even know there was a issue

[Neil Brock]

I'm just curious of the size of the problem and want to become convinced if people who cannot play the game because of mentioned problems are really in minority.

Bear in mind these forums only account for a tiny sample size of the people who play FM. The majority will be silent on this issue as they won't be on these forums.

[Ross Ingersoll]

People rarely post about things that work fine for them. Thats one bad thing about the net... You get 100 people complaining about something and it looks like its a lot. but what you dont see is the other hundreds or thousands of people who have no issue. Not many people will think to themselves ..." gee, this is working great and i really like it so i will post about it".

Bear in mind these forums only account for a tiny sample size of the people who play FM. The majority will be silent on this issue as they won't be on these forums.

[StewG]

My assists across the seasons have been roughly a quarter each from crosses, passes and through balls and the other quarter from set-plays and opposition mistakes. My team are doing all the things I want them to do, no complaints here.

[Edgar]

People rarely post about things that work fine for them. Thats one bad thing about the net... You get 100 people complaining about something and it looks like its a lot. but what you dont see is the other hundreds or thousands of people who have no issue. Not many people will think to themselves ..." gee, this is working great and i really like it so i will post about it".

If 100 people complaining about something it means that some more or less important problem exists. The hundreds or thousands of people who don't have issues is an argument for product seller but not for people that cannot use it.

The more accurate statistics will surely be available after the start of FM17 selling.

[Alexivan]

Spot on Edgar!

[CityAndColour]

Not unplayable, but I think it's pretty clear that standard tactics will cause this in certain situations - ie it's not like you need to set up some funky or illogical tactic to take advantage of crossing.

From my experience, too many full backs get space on the overlap due to non-responsive wide defending, and too many low crosses get through to the back post for a tap-in due to really poor reactions from defenders in the box, and 'keepers sticking on their line. Hitting a deep, low cross to the back post should be a low percentage play because you've got to get it past multiple defenders and ensure the 'keeper can't smother it, but it seems too easy to bypass these obstacles currently.

Plenty of examples of these issues were logged though so hopefully it's a big area of focus for FM16. I still believe the overriding issue is that defenders simply don't react to situations with the same speed and intelligence that attackers do.

[themadsheep2001]

If 100 people complaining about something it means that some more or less important problem exists. The hundreds or thousands of people who don't have issues is an argument for product seller but not for people that cannot use it.

The more accurate statistics will surely be available after the start of FM17 selling.

Not quite true. You cannot please everyone. And it's futile to attempt to do so. SI will have looked into this with far more detail than this poll can provide and will make (and have made) their decision based on that.

People still complain in their masses about AI super finishing - even though it doesn't exist.

[Cougar2010]

If 100 people complaining about something it means that some more or less important problem exists. The hundreds or thousands of people who don't have issues is an argument for product seller but not for people that cannot use it.

The more accurate statistics will surely be available after the start of FM17 selling.

Lets be honest the issue isn't the reason you aren't playing the game, its a choice you've made.

Every game has issues to some degree and to expect any different just shows how out of touch you are with the industry. If those issues stop you from playing the games then you probably have to accept that games aren't for you.

If you consider the basics of football there are three areas of the field that the ball can be played into the area from, centrally, left side or right side. Two out of those three areas are wide which means the bulk of balls from those two areas are crosses therefore it shouldn't be a surprise that a lot of goals are both scored & conceded IRL as a result of crosses.

I also feel that the way you watch matches influences many users. If you play a lot of matches in quick succession using key highlights then it shouldn't be a surprise if some sequences of play stick in your mind and you then start looking for them. The choice of which highlights to show along with perception bias make the issue worse than it really is in the user's mind.

Looking back at my last 50 matches I was actually surprised to see around 45% of my goals had come from crosses. Whilst tactically my team is built around getting the ball wide in a typical 442 formation my perception from watching matches in comprehensive highlights is that crossing is only slightly unbalanced & slightly easier to score from than central passes. This is partly down to the squad & partly down to the tactics making best use of those players (As in I have bigger forwards and quick wingers).

[Ross Ingersoll]

how would i go about in game seeing how my goals are scored, crosses, etc?

[Cougar2010]

Tactics > Analysis

Then there are options for type of goals scored, assist locations etc & at the top you can select how many matches and what type to include.

[Ross Ingersoll]

Found it, thanks. Now that i look there are a good number of crosses but also a good number of through balls and also pass. so not out of whack in my view at all. Honestly i think some put a tactic together for the sole purpose of exploiting any issue and then rant because its there. Not accusing any certain person, just in general

[Abaka]

A lot of people who don't post on the forms are possibly casual gamers or just don't care about the net...I know a lot of my friends who still play it aren't as hardcore into the game as I still am. They play it but don't really pay attention to anything unless its a crash.

Unfortunately for me, the game is unplayable and it seems to be one of the best games in a long time which is even more frustrating for me.

None of the issues make it unplayable by themselves, but all added up. It's not a realistic game for me.

Issues I can't look past:

Crosses, I've adjusted my tactics as best I can, but it's still happening at times for both myself & AI....And then the AI games are crossfests...This I can ignore.

FBs ratings/assists, this is probably hand in hand with the crossing issues. In the PREM league. 4 out of top 10 are full backs, I holidayed for 10 years and a FB has one one of the end of year awards in every situation. As I don't have time to watch matches I usually just stick to key highlights and try my best to follow the commentary but I depend on the ratings for seeing if my players are having a bad day. In one game, Darmian cost my team 3 goals but assisted 1 (dodgy crossing) but still managed a 7.4 rating. I analysed this and the amount of times he was caught out of position, gave away the ball or missed a tackle / interception was incredible. I'd have subbed him out if the rating showed he was struggling as I was narrowly holding a lead....but as his rating looked good I kept him on and in the last 20 minutes he fell apart and cost us 2 goals which cost us the game. Having a broken rating system is a huge issue....but not surprising considering we have a flawed match engine also.

AI lack of Squad Rotation: So many players are playing the full 38 games a season in the league which is not common in this day and age even for smaller clubs (GKS aisde). One or two players at every club might make the full 38 games but most teams are having either half or over half play the full 38 games....This then leads to incredible stats for goals. Jamie Vardy played 38 times and scored 42 goals in the Premier League, Romelu Lukaku played 38 and scored 36, Vardy is having a wonderful season IRL, I looked into the game and he managed to score a few hat tricks /braces but he also went a lot of games without goals. If he didn't play every game his goal tally would have been more realistic and probably more closer to the 30 goal mark. Pretty much the same with Lukaku.

For me, the 1st one is an annoying pain which I shouldn't have to compromise my ideal playing style to address, but it's no big deal. The second two kill realism, having so many players playing full games which affect their goal tallys/development of other squad players as well then impacts on long term games.

For me, it's a sad day that I can't play my favourite game, but I've noticed a growing trend that every year the game has more and more issues which are not being addressed in final patches. I'm done with FM17 though, the whole we'll fix it for 2017 is a joke. I paid for FM16, telling me FM17 will be brilliant is a disgrace. Are you going to give me 17 free based on the fact I can't play 18... Even at that...FM17 is likely to have it's own newn problems that won't be fixed until FM18...

I understand they are complex problems. But perhaps they should have been more focused on improving what they have rather than adding a pointless feature like manager appearance. I long miss the days where all we had was text commentary.

[ac13]

Lets be honest the issue isn't the reason you aren't playing the game, its a choice you've made.

Every game has issues to some degree and to expect any different just shows how out of touch you are with the industry. If those issues stop you from playing the games then you probably have to accept that games aren't for you.

If you consider the basics of football there are three areas of the field that the ball can be played into the area from, centrally, left side or right side. Two out of those three areas are wide which means the bulk of balls from those two areas are crosses therefore it shouldn't be a surprise that a lot of goals are both scored & conceded IRL as a result of crosses.

I also feel that the way you watch matches influences many users. If you play a lot of matches in quick succession using key highlights then it shouldn't be a surprise if some sequences of play stick in your mind and you then start looking for them. The choice of which highlights to show along with perception bias make the issue worse than it really is in the user's mind.

Looking back at my last 50 matches I was actually surprised to see around 45% of my goals had come from crosses. Whilst tactically my team is built around getting the ball wide in a typical 442 formation my perception from watching matches in comprehensive highlights is that crossing is only slightly unbalanced & slightly easier to score from than central passes. This is partly down to the squad & partly down to the tactics making best use of those players (As in I have bigger forwards and quick wingers).

Crossing from open play resulting in 45% of goals is massive. If you add the crosses which are from corners or indirect free kicks it's probably well over 50% of your goals coming from crosses of all types. The average for EPL 2011/12 season was 1 assist from crosses every 4th game. For you to be anywhere near that figure you would have to have scored a minuscule number of goals.

You talk about having big strikers as being a factor, but how many of your goals were from headers? I would bet the vast majority of those crosses were not scored by headers but volleys, so the size of your strikers played very little part in it.

Perception bias shouldn't matter if you are looking at the stats handily provided to you. But you look at the stats, ignore those and decide to stick to your bias and yet accuse others of doing the same. Bizarre.

Anyway I would like a voting option between 2 and 3. I think the problems with finishing and marking from crosses is one of many major issues with the ME. It doesn't quite make it unplayable for me at the moment because I am enjoying the squadbuilding despite the fact that watching the poor representation of football is very frustrating.

Despite not wanting to go as far as calling it unplayable I am extremely disappointed in the lack of improvement in 16.3 and doubt the claim that it's a minority of tactics that cause the obvious issues as I don't base my game around crosses, my fullbacks are defensive and pretty poor at dribbling and crossing and don't even get that many assists. But my wide midfielders get a massive amount, even when one is often playing as an inside forward or playmaker.

[Tony Wright 747]

A lot of people who don't post on the forms are possibly casual gamers or just don't care about the net...I know a lot of my friends who still play it aren't as hardcore into the game as I still am. They play it but don't really pay attention to anything unless its a crash.

Unfortunately for me, the game is unplayable and it seems to be one of the best games in a long time which is even more frustrating for me.

None of the issues make it unplayable by themselves, but all added up. It's not a realistic game for me.

Issues I can't look past:

Crosses, I've adjusted my tactics as best I can, but it's still happening at times for both myself & AI....And then the AI games are crossfests...This I can ignore.

FBs ratings/assists, this is probably hand in hand with the crossing issues. In the PREM league. 4 out of top 10 are full backs, I holidayed for 10 years and a FB has one one of the end of year awards in every situation. As I don't have time to watch matches I usually just stick to key highlights and try my best to follow the commentary but I depend on the ratings for seeing if my players are having a bad day. In one game, Darmian cost my team 3 goals but assisted 1 (dodgy crossing) but still managed a 7.4 rating. I analysed this and the amount of times he was caught out of position, gave away the ball or missed a tackle / interception was incredible. I'd have subbed him out if the rating showed he was struggling as I was narrowly holding a lead....but as his rating looked good I kept him on and in the last 20 minutes he fell apart and cost us 2 goals which cost us the game. Having a broken rating system is a huge issue....but not surprising considering we have a flawed match engine also.

AI lack of Squad Rotation: So many players are playing the full 38 games a season in the league which is not common in this day and age even for smaller clubs (GKS aisde). One or two players at every club might make the full 38 games but most teams are having either half or over half play the full 38 games....This then leads to incredible stats for goals. Jamie Vardy played 38 times and scored 42 goals in the Premier League, Romelu Lukaku played 38 and scored 36, Vardy is having a wonderful season IRL, I looked into the game and he managed to score a few hat tricks /braces but he also went a lot of games without goals. If he didn't play every game his goal tally would have been more realistic and probably more closer to the 30 goal mark. Pretty much the same with Lukaku.

For me, the 1st one is an annoying pain which I shouldn't have to compromise my ideal playing style to address, but it's no big deal. The second two kill realism, having so many players playing full games which affect their goal tallys/development of other squad players as well then impacts on long term games.

For me, it's a sad day that I can't play my favourite game, but I've noticed a growing trend that every year the game has more and more issues which are not being addressed in final patches. I'm done with FM17 though, the whole we'll fix it for 2017 is a joke. I paid for FM16, telling me FM17 will be brilliant is a disgrace. Are you going to give me 17 free based on the fact I can't play 18... Even at that...FM17 is likely to have it's own newn problems that won't be fixed until FM18...

I understand they are complex problems. But perhaps they should have been more focused on improving what they have rather than adding a pointless feature like manager appearance. I long miss the days where all we had was text commentary.

I agree with the first two sentances in the last paragraph but when it was text commentary only we wern't aware of any ME issues, the more animations mean any issues are more easily spotted

[Abaka]

I agree with the first two sentances in the last paragraph but when it was text commentary only we wern't aware of any ME issues, the more animations mean any issues are more easily spotted

I take that on board and point well made. Everything in my previous post still stands. I know my refusing to shell out the £40 next year or any other years won't hurt SI games in the slightest.

[themadsheep2001]

This is becoming another feedback thread, so I'm going to close it and suggest you post your feedback from 16.3 in the main feedback thread

Thanks