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Neil Brock

Football Manager 2016 16.3.0 Feedback Thread

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According to changelist nothing changed about crosses and offsides. There is a lot of threads about these problems at bugs forum. But SI didn't care.

We waited for months and got nothing. Mods saying it's not possible to make major changes on ME. Actually it means wait a few months more and buy FM 17. This is not fair.

I won't buy FM anymore. That's it.

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This version isn't the first to have squad numbers, why did it break?

Stop ridiculing people, realism is important for some users

I was explaining the SI process for assessing which bugs get priority, there was no ridiculing of anyone & you will noticed that I used 'us' to include me in that group.

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Additionally weird squad numbers in the Football League (loan players being assigned 50 something etc) has not been addressed. This patch is <deleted> absolutely blimming dreadful. Is there genuinely any point in reporting problems?

It has been fixed but given it's a competitions and rule group fix you would need to start a new save for it to take effect. Thanks. </deleted>

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As much as I love Paradox Interactive and their games TIR669, to get the full CK2 experience now it costs around £150. CK2 actually has a very good AI on the whole, but you can find brutal weaknesses in it and push them to your own advantage in a very similar way to how you can operate with the FM match engine too.

The only suggestion for things happening in the ME which you feel shouldn't be is to keep uploading examples. As daft as it sounds, SI will generally say if they ever reach that point of there being too many examples for them to find useful.

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thanks for clearing up things francism89 as i am unable to play the game until tonight. in fact, i probably wont even bother now.

confused/unsure as to why mods on here who have no link to si other than their responsibility for ensuring people are behaving themselves see the need to comment telling us to play the game before commenting on what has/hasn't been done etc, despite the changelist showing what has been altered in .3.

so, now we know for certain, there is still an issue with wide play. i fully appreciate how tweaking such a fundamental aspect of the game could result in problems skewing results in other areas, however what is SIs response as to why time is spent on guff like players growing moustaches in november when such a huge part of the game is not working as it should? i can't help but feel you are so disconnected with the people that actually play the game, despite all of the dedicated web sites etc out there.

i hope this post isn't seen as not being constructive, so just to make sure it isn't... really pleased players spend more time celebrating on the pitch after winning a trophy. maybe this could be added to more in the future, sliding on bellies, players holding hands waving to the crowd etc??

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I expect a playable game that is actually worth €50, in which, should I decide to play with WB and W roles, with TI's overlap&exploit the flanks, that not all goals (or 80% of them) will be scored from a cross made by my wingback. Which is exactly what's happening on 16.3. as well.

Take a look at Paradox Interactive, the company SI can relate to, considering those two make the most complex simulations today. Paradox throws out patches quite often with tweaks being done and released on a monthly basis. This year I've seen something alike from you as well, with a lot of small patches coming out. However, their games are mostly flawless, whilst FM in almost every major update gets something done incorrectly, whether its the crossing issue some of you choose not to acknowledge while some are defending SI's decision to ignore it (thus acknowledging it), the injuries problem, the corners problem, the "GK catching a ball outside the box and getting a red card problem", and many many (MANY!) others that have occurred through the years/releases and remained there until a few months later when the patch would solve it. This year that wasn't the case and you are seeing two types of goals if you're not Cleon and watching preseason games on full isn't your thing (I've nothing personal, just saying):

1) two defenders vs opposing CM/AM/ST where the player with the ball dwells on it or runs with it until one of the defenders decides to break away and close him down, leaving a player unmarked. The ball is passed to the unmarked player and a goal is scored. D-line, formation, shape, TI/PI, roles/duties, OI, attributes, nothing makes a difference because it happens to everyone

2) random cross goal, and by random - I mean random. Whether it's the goal line 180 degree cross to the striker's head, or the fullback byline cross to the far post, where there appears to be almost no collision detection during the jump, results in a goal.

That does not sound nor look playable to me because I'm scoring and conceding the same goal over and over again, regardless whether I'm playing with Barcelona against a non-league team in the Cup, or with a 2nd tier Faroese side, and most important of all - regardless of my tactic.

Regarding this thread (and the previous one 20 pages long), entering a "cross" in the search bar on any page of it results in a 80 or more results. While I completely understand it's not remotely simple to fix it, seeing the same problem active as ever even 5 MONTHS after the release means to me you guys at Sports Interactive simply don't care enough. Meaning that these feedback threads are useless if you decide not to try and fix the issue because you feel you can only make it worse.

And you expect me to give constructive feedback after all this? And for what? What did the last thread bring, with almost 2000 posts of feedback (useful or not), when there are only 5 (FIVE!) ME changes worth noting, two of which are also useless:

(- Give more time at the end of the match when a team wins a competition

- Fixed missing commentary for competition win at the end of a shootout)

I'm utterly disappointed this time and this is the only way to express it, so I do apologize for the occasional off-topic.

I do fully agree and feel the same way, especially because of the rigid patch schedule means this was the last patch for fm16.

Maybe other people don't care but I play fm because of the realism and to try to make real life football concepts work in the game, with the current issues this is not really possible and makes fm16 basically worthless to me now.

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Still no fix for not being able to use Design-a-Son and Son-Generated at same time on FMT? That's disappointing seeing as I paid for both. Want a refund or both to work at same time (as Lucas Weatherby told me they would).

Some time will need to pass before you can apply both in the save game (should be a few years).

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I do fully agree and feel the same way, especially because of the rigid patch schedule means this was the last patch for fm16.

Maybe other people don't care but I play fm because of the realism and to try to make real life football concepts work in the game, with the current issues this is not really possible and makes fm16 basically worthless to me now.

Yes it is. You are stating your opinion as being facts; you rarely get taken seriously with that approach when stating your arguments.

I try to make real life football concepts work in the game too, and I find it very possible, or at least possible to a adequate degree. Which one of us is right?

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I do fully agree and feel the same way, especially because of the rigid patch schedule means this was the last patch for fm16.

Maybe other people don't care but I play fm because of the realism and to try to make real life football concepts work in the game, with the current issues this is not really possible and makes fm16 basically worthless to me now.

Just go around and watch the famous you tubers and see how they score their goals, He sits for 30 mins preparing his tactics but the outcome is always the same sequence. If that's the best these guys who get paid for it can do , Then what hope do we have? Lol

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How does a deeper defensive line reduce the fullback rating or make players defend crosses better? A higher defensive line should make you more vulnerable to balls played in behind the defense and counter attacks.

The crossing issue from my observations seems to have something to do with teams defending and attacking too narrow , crosses being too accurate and defenders not being able to deal with them.

Against it not really my job to find out exactly why this issues occur, just to point them out.

When you consistently see fullbacks with 8+ ratings from ai teams and me teams as well, its pretty obvious that something is not right.

Again I understand that its a balancing issue and difficult to get right, but that this long awaited patch does not even address this issue at all is just baffling.

My fears have been realised, the issues with the ME were too complicated to fix in the update. The ME has been flawed since the re-write for FM13 with the 3rd patch for FM14 the best it's been. When I heard they were going to do a ME re-write for Fm13 I remember saying to a FM playing friend of mine that it will be FM18 before it's right and i dont think I will be far wrong. Of course every new tweak and animation will have a knock on effect, maybe SI need to be a little less ambitious with each release and get the basics right. I know they are oblicated to Sega to release a game every year and economics are involved in this but I can't beleive they are happy about realeasing a geme with the ME in this state.

As I said in an earlier post I have been waiting for the update before I buy the full game, I think my money will be staying in my pocket and I will carry on playing FM12 and FM14 and see what 17 brings

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It has been fixed but given it's a competitions and rule group fix you would need to start a new save for it to take effect. Thanks. </deleted>

I have started a new save. Everything I've done is on a new save with the latest database.

This is in October of season two.

9huhac.png

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thanks for clearing up things francism89 as i am unable to play the game until tonight. in fact, i probably wont even bother now.

confused/unsure as to why mods on here who have no link to si other than their responsibility for ensuring people are behaving themselves see the need to comment telling us to play the game before commenting on what has/hasn't been done etc, despite the changelist showing what has been altered in .3.

so, now we know for certain, there is still an issue with wide play. i fully appreciate how tweaking such a fundamental aspect of the game could result in problems skewing results in other areas, however what is SIs response as to why time is spent on guff like players growing moustaches in november when such a huge part of the game is not working as it should? i can't help but feel you are so disconnected with the people that actually play the game, despite all of the dedicated web sites etc out there.

i hope this post isn't seen as not being constructive, so just to make sure it isn't... really pleased players spend more time celebrating on the pitch after winning a trophy. maybe this could be added to more in the future, sliding on bellies, players holding hands waving to the crowd etc??

The ME has its own team, so they won't be doing anything other than working on the ME. That "guff" is for cancer awareness, by the way.

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qwerty22, please keep your posts to the subject of feedback based on your experience with 16.3, so far none of your posts in the thread have been on-topic.

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Yes it is. You are stating your opinion as being facts; you rarely get taken seriously with that approach when stating your arguments.

No , its not really possible when you see things happening in the game which clearly obviously make that impossible, everyone acknowledges that there are issues with fullback ratings and with crosses or defending crosses, its not really a debate.

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I expect a playable game that is actually worth €50, in which, should I decide to play with WB and W roles, with TI's overlap&exploit the flanks, that not all goals (or 80% of them) will be scored from a cross made by my wingback. Which is exactly what's happening on 16.3. as well.

playing that set up which imo is unrealistic, where would you expect goals to come from?- i'd be amazed that they wouldnt in the main come from those areas......what team in real life plays like that?

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No changes in this regard. Sometimes it is just not possible to efficiently or safely adjust elements of the ME without knackering another aspect of the ME.

The latest issues with Cleon and Sports Interactive now focusing on tablets and mobile devices, it seems like it is the decision from the management to stop developing FM for long term PC users.

Back to good old Championshio Manager days and away from the simumation idea.

I have a feeling the old FM fanbase will soon find other hobbys.

But ok, the Tablet and mobile device market is probably more lucrative business than old nerds :-)

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hi, can someone please inform me if the strikers and keepers lack of red cards bug has been fixed for this version?

Is there a bug thread & have you checked in there?

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The latest issues with Cleon and Sports Interactive now focusing on tablets and mobile devices, it seems like it is the decision from the management to stop developing FM for long term PC users.

Back to good old Championshio Manager days and away from the simumation idea.

I have a feeling the old FM fanbase will soon find other hobbys.

But ok, the Tablet and mobile device market is probably more lucrative business than old nerds :-)

Utter nonsense, SI continue to increase the level of investment in the main game.

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No , its not really possible when you see things happening in the game which clearly obviously make that impossible, everyone acknowledges that there are issues with fullback ratings and with crosses or defending crosses, its not really a debate.

Ah, ok. So you are right then. Not even debateable. My mistake then.

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playing that set up which imo is unrealistic, where would you expect goals to come from?- i'd be amazed that they wouldnt in the main come from those areas......what team in real life plays like that?

It's like people don't even understand the tactics they're playing. What else is the wingback going to do? Go a mad FIFA-style cut inside, run along the byline and slot home? He's going to cross into the box...

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The ME has its own team, so they won't be doing anything other than working on the ME. That "guff" is for cancer awareness, by the way.

very clever, and nothing short of what i have come to expect from this place. your first sentence was enough.

yes, i understand the point of movember, but as i have previously said, i do not understand why there needs to be a team dedicated to working on these sorts of things in the game when wide play is knackered. let's have less people concentrating on less rubbish tacked on to the game and more people working on the important stuff.

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As much as I love Paradox Interactive and their games TIR669, to get the full CK2 experience now it costs around £150. CK2 actually has a very good AI on the whole, but you can find brutal weaknesses in it and push them to your own advantage in a very similar way to how you can operate with the FM match engine too.

The only suggestion for things happening in the ME which you feel shouldn't be is to keep uploading examples. As daft as it sounds, SI will generally say if they ever reach that point of there being too many examples for them to find useful.

While I agree with the bolded part, I would like to add CK2 was released on February 14, 2012, and with all DLC (including the useless ones that don't add any new game mechanics) on Steam it costs 149 euros.

Since Feb 14th, 2012 there have been 4 new FM games - FM13, FM14, FM15 and now FM16, all of which started with €50 day one price. All CK2 games are up-to-date whereas there are no winter data patches for FM13 for example. Just a small digression there regarding the pricing.

playing that set up which imo is unrealistic, where would you expect goals to come from?- i'd be amazed that they wouldnt in the main come from those areas......what team in real life plays like that?

No one in real life tries to score from crosses coming from the sides? I expect to score lots of goals in the start but then I would like to see my opponents marking my full backs and wingers which should stop the high number of goals from crosses. That doesn't happen though, I keep on scoring (and conceding) from crosses until a random 6 match long poor form occurs (the one in which you can't score a goal but your opponents can), after which it's over and I'm scoring again.

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very clever, and nothing short of what i have come to expect from this place. your first sentence was enough.

yes, i understand the point of movember, but as i have previously said, i do not understand why there needs to be a team dedicated to working on these sorts of things in the game when wide play is knackered. let's have less people concentrating on less rubbish tacked on to the game and more people working on the important stuff.

It wasn't clever. I answered your post. There is already a team. Just throwing people at an issue will cause a "too many cooks" problem.

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very clever, and nothing short of what i have come to expect from this place. your first sentence was enough.

yes, i understand the point of movember, but as i have previously said, i do not understand why there needs to be a team dedicated to working on these sorts of things in the game when wide play is knackered. let's have less people concentrating on less rubbish tacked on to the game and more people working on the important stuff.

I am also disappointed with the update , but graphical stuff is done by different people than those who work on the match engine, one does not impede with the other.

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So because of lesser minded beings - people who have half a clue are to be restricted in what they can and cannot do. I mean - it's not difficult to grasp if your using a different version to the latest release your not going to be able to receive support from official channels.

You stand by your point because you are incapable of understanding on how many levels your logic is flawed on - not because it is correct - at least not in anyone capable of a little critical thought.

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very clever, and nothing short of what i have come to expect from this place. your first sentence was enough.

yes, i understand the point of movember, but as i have previously said, i do not understand why there needs to be a team dedicated to working on these sorts of things in the game when wide play is knackered. let's have less people concentrating on less rubbish tacked on to the game and more people working on the important stuff.

iirc movember was handled by the PR team & less than half an hour of a coder's time, it took nothing away from key areas of FM.

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So because of lesser minded beings - people who have half a clue are to be restricted in what they can and cannot do. I mean - it's not difficult to grasp if your using a different version to the latest release your not going to be able to receive support from official channels.

You stand by your point because you are incapable of understanding on how many levels your logic is flawed on - not because it is correct - at least not in anyone capable of a little critical thought.

That's the way it works, decision are made based on the behaviour of the majority & what is best for the producer in terms if their available resources.

You're still not offering any feedback on the 16.3 update so no more about the lack of ability to roll back versions or insulting other users.

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No one in real life tries to score from crosses coming from the sides? I expect to score lots of goals in the start but then I would like to see my opponents marking my full backs and wingers which should stop the high number of goals from crosses. That doesn't happen though, I keep on scoring (and conceding) from crosses until a random 6 match long poor form occurs (the one in which you can't score a goal but your opponents can), after which it's over and I'm scoring again.

You're asking for an adaptive AI that can target specific weakness in different tactical systems, an idea that I'd love to see but we're probably a long way off that level of complexity.

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As much as I love Paradox Interactive and their games TIR669, to get the full CK2 experience now it costs around £150. CK2 actually has a very good AI on the whole, but you can find brutal weaknesses in it and push them to your own advantage in a very similar way to how you can operate with the FM match engine too.

Crusader Kings 2 also goes on sale fairly frequently for up to 85% off.

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I am also disappointed with the update , but graphical stuff is done by different people than those who work on the match engine, one does not impede with the other.

ok, i concede this point.

i look on here less and less these days as i find it's like banging my head against a wall... have si ever come out and said why they still deem it ok to release the game in such a state in the first place let alone not having it fixed 5 months after release? i understand time constraints etc, but why not take a year off? why not make sure the game is in perfect shape straight off the shelf? maybe i'm looking at things too black and white, but i don't see why the me needs changing year on year anyway.

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Nice one SI, ever since the patch I've been getting the runtime error when trying to load up a new game on both the new database and old database. Followed all of SI's instructions as to how to stop this error yet none seem to work. Basically it appears the new patch has buggered my game. Yay!

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Crusader Kings 2 also goes on sale fairly frequently for up to 85% off.

Yes, but never including all expansions. They put the core game on sale at 85% off just as the next expansion is out at full price.

Paradox used to be my favourite developer and I had all of their early titles. I wouldn't touch the new ones given their current business model.

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ok, i concede this point.

i look on here less and less these days as i find it's like banging my head against a wall... have si ever come out and said why they still deem it ok to release the game in such a state in the first place let alone not having it fixed 5 months after release? i understand time constraints etc, but why not take a year off? why not make sure the game is in perfect shape straight off the shelf? maybe i'm looking at things too black and white, but i don't see why the me needs changing year on year anyway.

The ME will never be perfect and so SI will always be striving to improve it. If you're not happy with that, buy the game after 5 months of release. :thup:

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ok, i concede this point.

i look on here less and less these days as i find it's like banging my head against a wall... have si ever come out and said why they still deem it ok to release the game in such a state in the first place let alone not having it fixed 5 months after release? i understand time constraints etc, but why not take a year off? why not make sure the game is in perfect shape straight off the shelf? maybe i'm looking at things too black and white, but i don't see why the me needs changing year on year anyway.

We don't think the game is in 'such a state' when it's released else we wouldn't release it. We always looking to make the game better where we can, but we've never knowingly released the game 'in a state' nor would we ever.

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While I agree with the bolded part, I would like to add CK2 was released on February 14, 2012, and with all DLC (including the useless ones that don't add any new game mechanics) on Steam it costs 149 euros.

Since Feb 14th, 2012 there have been 4 new FM games - FM13, FM14, FM15 and now FM16, all of which started with €50 day one price. All CK2 games are up-to-date whereas there are no winter data patches for FM13 for example. Just a small digression there regarding the pricing.

No one in real life tries to score from crosses coming from the sides? I expect to score lots of goals in the start but then I would like to see my opponents marking my full backs and wingers which should stop the high number of goals from crosses. That doesn't happen though, I keep on scoring (and conceding) from crosses until a random 6 match long poor form occurs (the one in which you can't score a goal but your opponents can), after which it's over and I'm scoring again.

obviously yes - it'd be great to see the AI adapt but maybe this is too complex for now - until then this overloading from the wings will create a higher % of goals from this area which i'd expect to be honest.

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Nice one SI, ever since the patch I've been getting the runtime error when trying to load up a new game on both the new database and old database. Followed all of SI's instructions as to how to stop this error yet none seem to work. Basically it appears the new patch has buggered my game. Yay!

Please report your issue in the Technical Issues section.

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Nice one SI, ever since the patch I've been getting the runtime error when trying to load up a new game on both the new database and old database. Followed all of SI's instructions as to how to stop this error yet none seem to work. Basically it appears the new patch has buggered my game. Yay!

Are you running anything custom such as graphics/logos/editor data etc? Probably best you create a thread here - http://community.sigames.com/forumdisplay.php/520-Crashes-Launch-and-Technical-Issues-on-PC

Thanks.

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Utter nonsense, SI continue to increase the level of investment in the main game.

Yes, of course. Long term users writing long interesting fanbased articles are of no interest for Sports Interactive.

That 60% of all goals come from crosses in the Scottish league are of no interest for Sports Interactive.

Stop calling it a simulation game - the quality of the match engine have nothing to do with simulation. No matter what tactics you play, 60% of the goals in scottish league come from crosses. It doesnt matter if you play wide, narrow, through the middle. It is not simulation. I remember the first Football Manager from Commodore 64 and it is my clear impression, that the current match engine (except the graphics and a lot of thing you can change), are of no better quality in realism than one from the 80s.

The crossing problem have been all over the community since FM16 was realeased and still no one bothered to invest time in doing something about it.

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when i click on show player best position why does it still show me its partial position. why did you change it this year? it was fine before. it is a complete headache to find players who play in a specific postions and its looks confusing

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Yeah I removed all custom graphics, databases other files etc and followed every step linked by Neil. I'm now trying a fresh reinstall of the game to see if that works. I'll report the issues if/when the reinstall fails to change anything. Fingers crossed. Just typical this happens when I'm itching to play the new patch.

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Some time will need to pass before you can apply both in the save game (should be a few years).

Interesting. Previous save game (in 16.2) never opeend that option up, despite running for about 7 years.

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So using an overlapping full back is deemed unrealistic these days? My word...

Adaptive AI sure would be nice, one that knew how to defend a basic overlap would suffice in this instance though.

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Yes, of course. Long term users writing long interesting fanbased articles are of no interest for Sports Interactive.

That 60% of all goals come from crosses in the Scottish league are of no interest for Sports Interactive.

Stop calling it a simulation game - the quality of the match engine have nothing to do with simulation. No matter what tactics you play, 60% of the goals in scottish league come from crosses. It doesnt matter if you play wide, narrow, through the middle. It is not simulation. I remember the first Football Manager from Commodore 64 and it is my clear impression, that the current match engine (except the graphics and a lot of thing you can change), are of no better quality in realism than one from the 80s.

The crossing problem have been all over the community since FM16 was realeased and still no one bothered to invest time in doing something about it.

To be fair nobody cares a jot about anything to do with the Scottish league so I wouldn't get so worked up about it.

It's obviously a simulation. If you don't like it, don't play the game. If you want to feedback, try and do it without coming across like you are, as it's doing no-one any favours.

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Not sure what more can be said.

SI acknowledged an issue

SI spent time attempting to address the issue

SI were unable to code a solution that they were satisfied with

There was no middle ground that mitigated against the issue with causing issues elsewhere

SI made a decision to leave things as are there, I assume because that was better than any of the other changes during testing.

Do you want SI to make changes for the sake of making changes, or worse create some sort of placebo to trick you in to believing changes had been made?

I expect your next post to be providing feedback on the game after spending time playing it, not a review on the changelist & SI's decision.

The goalkeeping is still horrendous (it's not just the crossing which nothing was done about to complain about).

Goalkeepers still save shots going way off target back into play. Also had Butland fumble an extremely tame prod towards goal straight back in front of him. Then a slide tackle from the striker moved the ball an inch or two closer to goal. Then my defender did a slide tackle of his own to slot it into the bottom corner. Total horrow show. That made it 1-1 in a game with 23 shots to 4, 7 shots on target to 1.

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So using an overlapping full back is deemed unrealistic these days? My word...

Adaptive AI sure would be nice, one that knew how to defend a basic overlap would suffice in this instance though.

no its not unrealistic - but a WB(A) plus a winger for 90 minutes surely is, probably with an expolit the flanks instruction, what team in real life does this, all the time, every match for a full 90 minutes??

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