Football Manager 2016 16.3.0 Feedback Thread

[forameuss]

Bought every FM since CM01/02 at release.

Dissapointed by FM13, although i played a lot.

Very dissapointed by FM 14, played a few hours.

Skipped FM 15.

Bought FM 16 after 16.2.

Extremely dissapopinted by FM16, gave up after a few hours (half a season in full details actually).

I will not buy FM 17, unless the feedback thread is filled with positive comments.

As you could guys see, from my personal point of view, the quality is going downhill.I've just uninstalled FM16, there is absolutely no reason for me to give it a try anymore.

Then you probably won't buy FM17 either. Going by the feedback thread is a terrible way of determining the quality of the game. If you purely use that, you'd never buy one again. The demo will always be the way to go - let's you get a personal view on it, rather than just taking everyone else's opinion to form your own.

[Preveza]

Then you probably won't buy FM17 either. Going by the feedback thread is a terrible way of determining the quality of the game. If you purely use that, you'd never buy one again. The demo will always be the way to go - let's you get a personal view on it, rather than just taking everyone else's opinion to form your own.

Yep. Agree. I hate reading threads prior to buying.

[luka_zg]

Players WILL come and talk about game time. It's far, far more important to note how these conversations go. The 18 year old in question may want more game time, but why don't you talk to him then? You're telling us the reason. Tell him. If he really doesn't have a leg to stand on, it'll be easy to get him to back off.

It also depends on their ability. You haven't mentioned how good the kid is and also how he compares to the main 60m player.

I can't tell him what I want because the game does not allow me to.

The kid is a wonderkid, great potential but pretty far from the quality of the player who plays his position (Ivan Cavaleiro). There is no way he can be first choice when I'm fighting for league title and CL trophy.

But I also have players who are not wonderkids and probably will never be first 11 players for me but are very good backup players with "backup" status and they are also moaning despite signing a contract that says they are..well, backups!! So the guy has like started 8 games and entered12 from the bench and he is complaining! I'd say he plays quite enough for a backup player,no?

[HUNT3R]

I can't tell him what I want because the game does not allow me to.

The kid is a wonderkid, great potential but pretty far from the quality of the player who plays his position (Ivan Cavaleiro). There is no way he can be first choice when I'm fighting for league title and CL trophy.

But I also have players who are not wonderkids and probably will never be first 11 players for me but are very good backup players with "backup" status and they are also moaning despite signing a contract that says they are..well, backups!! So the guy has like started 8 games and entered12 from the bench and he is complaining! I'd say he plays quite enough for a backup player,no?

I agree that it is enough game time already, which is why I'd tell him that. You have options to tell him that he'll start in cup games or be a sub etc. They usually don't accept that, so then I tell them to think long and hard before saying/doing something in the heat of the moment and they go away.

What is his CA star rating? And the 60m player's?

Backups who are just crap may eventually also have the 1st team football talk with you, but in their case you'll see they say "I may not be up to standard" to get football at your club.

[Alexivan]

As a matter of interest, why were you "very disappointed" by FM 14? I think the third patch 14.3.0/1 was/is the best ME from this organization yet.., which is why many of my friends (me too) are still playing it. So why exactly? Which version of FM 14 was disappointing? If it was the final patch, i'd really love to know what it is that bugged you then, ifyoudontmind.

I don't remember precisely 100%.

But, as we all know, FM 13 has a very poorly ME due to being a brand new one.

Then, i expected lots of improvements in FM14, which made me be less indulgent with that version.

One thing that i remember driving me crazy, was the fact that Tall/Good Heading strikers were absolutely overpowered. There was nothing i could do in my save from making me wating to replace Giroud with Messi, for example.

Another thing was corner issues. Lots of goals from corners.Lots of crossbars also. Inside forwards trying to shoot from impossible angles instead of passing made me mad. Lots of repetitive plays over and over again. No diversity in ME.

Some of those are still in FM16, but i could get over them, if not for those absurd fullbacks ratings.

[Tony Wright 747]

I don't remember precisely 100%.

But, as we all know, FM 13 has a very poorly ME due to being a brand new one.

Then, i expected lots of improvements in FM14, which made me be less indulgent with that version.

One thing that i remember driving me crazy, was the fact that Tall/Good Heading strikers were absolutely overpowered. There was nothing i could do in my save from making me wating to replace Giroud with Messi, for example.

Another thing was corner issues. Lots of goals from corners.Lots of crossbars also. Inside forwards trying to shoot from impossible angles instead of passing made me mad. Lots of repetitive plays over and over again. No diversity in ME.

Some of those are still in FM16, but i could get over them, if not for those absurd fullbacks ratings.

I agree with what Alexivan is saying, although the 3rd patch for FM14 improved things quite a bit.

The flaws in the ME has been there since the re-write for FM13 which is why I still play FM12, I know lots of people will disagree with me but I beleive it is still the best ME yet. I would imagine there must have been some technical reason why FM13 was completely re-written rather than make improvements to what was already there in FM12

[Guest]

The re-write was needed as there was no way for SI to improve on that ME, from the feedback Neil provided in this thread it would appear that SI ave once again reached a point where a significant re-write is needed to move the ME to the next level of realism.

Must have been a tough call for SI to try & get a little extra out of the the ME used for 15.3 rather than just plugging that one into FM16. iirc they got plenty of stick for using the final FM11 match engine on FM12, I know I was very critical of the decision at the time.

[Neil Brock]

I agree with what Alexivan is saying, although the 3rd patch for FM14 improved things quite a bit.

The flaws in the ME has been there since the re-write for FM13 which is why I still play FM12, I know lots of people will disagree with me but I beleive it is still the best ME yet. I would imagine there must have been some technical reason why FM13 was completely re-written rather than make improvements to what was already there in FM12

I'm fairly sure FM12 only had rudimentary collision detection which meant quick players could literally run through strong players. Adding something as complex as collision detection, or even improving it makes a huge amount of difference how the entire ME works. Am honestly surprised that someone can play that and compare it to the FM15 or 16 ME and say it's better. Might be more fun in regards to how you play the game, but better I think would be a strong way of expressing it.

[Cougar2010]

I agree with what Alexivan is saying, although the 3rd patch for FM14 improved things quite a bit.

The flaws in the ME has been there since the re-write for FM13 which is why I still play FM12, I know lots of people will disagree with me but I beleive it is still the best ME yet. I would imagine there must have been some technical reason why FM13 was completely re-written rather than make improvements to what was already there in FM12

The ME has always been rewritten every 5/6 years as far as I'm aware.

In terms of improvements this one added collision detection, new ball physics & motion capture animations I seem to remember as the main improvements.

FM12 was the last version of the last ME so you would expect it to be the peak while this one probably has at least a couple of years to go. Even so I think if you watched them side by side this one far surpasses FM12.

[HUNT3R]

FM12 also had almost no goals by way of headers and robotic movement. We've moved on from that.

[Tony Wright 747]

The re-write was needed as there was no way for SI to improve on that ME, from the feedback Neil provided in this thread it would appear that SI ave once again reached a point where a significant re-write is needed to move the ME to the next level of realism.

Must have been a tough call for SI to try & get a little extra out of the the ME used for 15.3 rather than just plugging that one into FM16. iirc they got plenty of stick for using the final FM11 match engine on FM12, I know I was very critical of the decision at the time.

I get concerned with the talk of re-writes barside, I don't think there were any significant re-writes between CM4 and FM12 just improvements and of course the introduction of 3D. I think that going back to the drawing board for FM13 is partly responsible for some of the issues we are seeing now

[Guest]

Significant re-write might be an over the top reading between the lines om my part.

I also imagine there would have been major ME changes for the introduction of the 3D view on FM09 so the timings(09 to 11/12 following by 13 to 15/16) would suggest that we can look forward to another evolution in the ME for FM17.

[forameuss]

I get concerned with the talk of re-writes barside, I don't think there were any significant re-writes between CM4 and FM12 just improvements and of course the introduction of 3D. I think that going back to the drawing board for FM13 is partly responsible for some of the issues we are seeing now

Concerned or not, there was a rewrite between 12 and 13. That's fairly common knowledge. Perfectly normal too - they'll have a long-term plan for the ME from a certain starting point, but a lot of it will be drawn by feedback. They're always going to come to a point where certain changes can't be made within the constructs that were put in place sometimes years before. At that point, it's perfectly understandable that they'll need to rewrite certain constructs to make sure they can innovate in future. Things like collision detection are a great example - something that major is very unlikely to be able to be just plugged in to an existing ME.

[Tony Wright 747]

I'm fairly sure FM12 only had rudimentary collision detection which meant quick players could literally run through strong players. Adding something as complex as collision detection, or even improving it makes a huge amount of difference how the entire ME works. Am honestly surprised that someone can play that and compare it to the FM15 or 16 ME and say it's better. Might be more fun in regards to how you play the game, but better I think would be a strong way of expressing it.

I guess it depends on how you define better Neil, you are right in that I play FM for enjoyment and I find that I enjoy FM12 more where the players do more or less what I expect them to do rather than FM16 with its woeful defending

[Tony Wright 747]

The ME has always been rewritten every 5/6 years as far as I'm aware.

In terms of improvements this one added collision detection, new ball physics & motion capture animations I seem to remember as the main improvements.

FM12 was the last version of the last ME so you would expect it to be the peak while this one probably has at least a couple of years to go. Even so I think if you watched them side by side this one far surpasses FM12.

I dont think there wre any complete re-writes between CM4 and FM12 Cougar, obviously 3D was added in FM09.

I think that motion capture animations have added to the problems as I don't think that the FM 3D graphics are able to handle it fully at the moment

I have played both games side by side as you suggest and I still prefer FM12. It's all about personal preference really isn't it

[Guest]

I guess it depends on how you define better Neil, you are right in that I play FM for enjoyment and I find that I enjoy FM12 more where the players do more or less what I expect them to do rather than FM16 with its woeful defending

I think the more realistic the ME gets the less likely it will be that players will do exactly what you instruct them to do all of the time as even irl it's probably quite uncommon for managers to have that level of influence once a match has started, I always felt that was a major failing of the slider based tactical interface.

[janesy20]

To me this IS the issue that everyone bar a few is having it seems. Full backs over covering the centre halves and unless you play wide and high there is no way of stopping crossing. The use of counter attacking is greatly improved and I'm loving the attacking play I'm seeing on FM16 but teams trying to play narrow and deep (As Leicester do IRL and are top of the league from) are ruthlessly punished by overlapping full backs. In the photo above I am playing a standard, normal defensive line and balanced width yet look how bad my full backs positioning is, not to mention the fat that my ML is a wide midfielder and should also be helping out defensively ( I was not caught up the field either this is just plain poor over covering.

The game is not as bad as everyone is making out and I greatly appreciate the efforts of everyone at SI who make the game that I love, however this issue needs to be rectified as too many people are reporting the same issues.

[Cougar2010]

Yes thats a good picture Janesy.

Who should be covering the fullbacks depends on your shape but clearly in your pic the fullback along with three midfielders have all been dragged too narrow.

[noikeee]

To me this IS the issue that everyone bar a few is having it seems. Full backs over covering the centre halves and unless you play wide and high there is no way of stopping crossing. The use of counter attacking is greatly improved and I'm loving the attacking play I'm seeing on FM16 but teams trying to play narrow and deep (As Leicester do IRL and are top of the league from) are ruthlessly punished by overlapping full backs. In the photo above I am playing a standard, normal defensive line and balanced width yet look how bad my full backs positioning is, not to mention the fat that my ML is a wide midfielder and should also be helping out defensively ( I was not caught up the field either this is just plain poor over covering.

The game is not as bad as everyone is making out and I greatly appreciate the efforts of everyone at SI who make the game that I love, however this issue needs to be rectified as too many people are reporting the same issues.

100% spot on, as far as I'm concerned (on everything, including the bit on the game not being bad at all). I think SI have got plenty of PKMs by now, but might be worth posting this in the crossing bug thread along with the match PKM.

By the way my only slight disagreement is that I don't think it's a good idea to play high+wide in this ME, because the opponents will be intelligent enough to punish you with through balls by the middle then. I prefer to play "only" a very high line which is enough to stop crosses, but sometimes will go a bit narrow on top of that - because not only this is better to defend the through balls, but going forward, even if you're a bit narrow yourself in the middle, your own fullbacks still seem to go quite wide and exploit this bug/oversight when going upfront.

[janesy20]

Yes thats a good picture Janesy.

Who should be covering the fullbacks depends on your shape but clearly in your pic the fullback along with three midfielders have all been dragged too narrow.

It is something I have noticed with the closing down aspect, players are naturally attracted to the ball regardless of the setting. The closing down was set to 'sometimes' in this instance, as you can see: Albrighton who is infront of him (despite me wishing this was a centre midfield positioned here but that might be my fault) is closing Song down, yet Fuchs inexplicably sets off to close him down also its like an automatic reaction of the ME. The only option is to set Albrighton to man mark the full back but it is a bit of faff when it doesn't need to be.

[janesy20]

100% spot on, as far as I'm concerned (on everything, including the bit on the game not being bad at all). I think SI have got plenty of PKMs by now, but might be worth posting this in the crossing bug thread along with the match PKM.

By the way my only slight disagreement is that I don't think it's a good idea to play high+wide in this ME, because the opponents will be intelligent enough to punish you with through balls by the middle then. I prefer to play "only" a very high line which is enough to stop crosses, but sometimes will go a bit narrow on top of that - because not only this is better to defend the through balls, but going forward, even if you're a bit narrow yourself in the middle, your own fullbacks still seem to go quite wide and exploit this bug/oversight when going upfront.

Oh I know, which is why I stick with deep and narrow and try to outscore the opposition rather than prevent their goals. Can you imagine Huth playing a high line the result would be disastrous

[janesy20]

I set Leicester up on FM to play as close as possible to IRL. Defensively they get two banks of four sitting deep and narrow and ask the opposition to break them down. They do not care for possession and prefer to make ground by being direct in the first two thirds and technical in the final third, it really works a treat on FM16 and I'm seeing some wonderful counter attacking moves, but I haven't quite masterd the defensive aspect yet: some of it my fault, some of it the ME.

[janesy20]

Yeah, that's it all right. It's not just the fullbacks though. No reason for the midfielders to get pulled around so much either.

It's not just Fuchs either, look at Simpsons positioning at right back too. with a narrow set up and the opposition with possession in the centre of the pitch I would expect both of my full backs to take their positions roughly a yard or so inside the corners of the 18 yard box, certainly not positioning themselves in line with the 6 yard box anyway

[Valkyrie88]

Okay, as you’re aware the staff here at SI read the forums so clearly we’re aware that some users are experiencing some issues with the way that crosses are defended. From the numbers we’ve had feeding back to us this only seems to affect a relatively small number players and largely depends on those player's tactics. Saying that, we did take a long, hard look at it and ultimately decided that given potential knock-ons and the major impact it would have had on user’s tactics that it wasn’t something we could tweak without unbalancing the match engine and worsening the user’s playing experience.

As anyone who’s played FM for a while knows, we’re constantly striving to make the match engine a 100 per cent perfect simulation of real football. While we’re still some way away from achieving this goal, we do feel that we’re getting closer and closer and this progress is helped enormously by the constructive feedback that we get here on the forums. We’re happy with the match engine which is included in version 16.3.0 and we’ve only been able to get up to this point thanks to everyone who has been involved in the game’s development, be it SI staff members, beta testers or those of you posting here on the forums.

Having spoken at length about this with the match team, there is some good news to report in that the work the team have done in trying to address this issue long-term has led to some other major improvements which, once they’re fully implemented, will make any future versions of the match engine better for everyone.

All I would add to that is that you should give the new update a thorough play-through and let us know what you think when you’ve had a chance to put it through its paces. That's what this thread is here for.

Many thanks.

First of all, let me tell you that I've been following this forum for a long time, even if I havent registered till now. The reason I finally did it, is the crossing issue in FM 16 (more obvious for me after 16.3 update). I can provide you with as many PKM's as you want regarding this. There's plenty. But for the readers, I will post some screenshots and let me tell you this: 1. The game is unplayable for me as it is for many others 2. This issue is not experienced by a small number of players as you claim. I dedicated hours and hours researching this problem and its full of it on many different forums and communities. I am not ranting, I understand that ME is a complex business, but still, we paid for the game months ago which is very very frustrating from a player's pov. I know how to set up a tactic (dont try to suggest that it's my tactic that encourage this mess) and it's not that. I played many different formations and styles with different mentalities and it ALWAYS comes down to the ball getting passed out wide, then my fullback blasts it in the 6 yrd box -> goal. I specifically instructed my FB'S to hold position and cross less, but still no effect. If it's not the FB's, then it's somebody else running wide and then delivers a cross which results in a goal. My AMC has 5-6 clear possibilities/game to deliver a killer (through ball) to the striker/s but he NEVER DOES IT (like a normal person). Instead, he justs passes it out wide and you can guess what happens next. For the love of GOD, I forgot how a clean goal scored from a through ball looks like in FM since I use FM16. Almost every goal is scored / conceded from a cross (direct or after a rebound) . I know how marketing works, thats my playground also and I realise that some problems are better to "not be aknowledged" sometimes. If you cant fix it, please be straight and say it. At least we know what to expect. But please, dont make it sound like it's not a general issue, because it is. Even if it's a bug which is not experienced by 100% of the players, it's still experienced by enough to make you deal with it, or make a clear statement. I hope you take my post constructivly since I am only trying to help here. I'm way past raging ... after 99999 goals scored from crosses I dont ask for.

Now, here is my FM 15 goal analysis using my own developted tactic (4-2-3-1 with emphasis on the AMC) which I tried to replicate in FM16 (screen above). Look at the difference in ME interpretation.

[Delvi]

It's just seems to me or there are lot of missed/saved penalties? Furthermore,in 3 seasons I never saw a goal scored from direct free-kick.

[noikeee]

I've scored a few from freekicks. They don't happen often, but are there in the ME.

[Cougar2010]

It's just seems to me or there are lot of missed/saved penalties? Furthermore,in 3 seasons I never saw a goal scored from direct free-kick.

Had two, missed two so far this season (One saved, one hit the bar).

Can't say I've had a problem in previous seasons though and have scored a fair few freekicks as well (Maybe est 3/4 a season).

[South-Side]

The ones that i get earlier in the game are missed. Almost all in the first half. Even though my best penalty taker takes it it's always executed weak and the keeper deflects.

Sometimes i feel I'm looking at Messi taking them...

[penza]

First of all, let me tell you that I've been following this forum for a long time, even if I havent registered till now. The reason I finally did it, is the crossing issue in FM 16 (more obvious for me after 16.3 update). I can provide you with as many PKM's as you want regarding this. There's plenty. But for the readers, I will post some screenshots and let me tell you this: 1. The game is unplayable for me as it is for many others 2. This issue is not experienced by a small number of players as you claim. I dedicated hours and hours researching this problem and its full of it on many different forums and communities. I am not ranting, I understand that ME is a complex business, but still, we paid for the game months ago which is very very frustrating from a player's pov. I know how to set up a tactic (dont try to suggest that it's my tactic that encourage this mess) and it's not that. I played many different formations and styles with different mentalities and it ALWAYS comes down to the ball getting passed out wide, then my fullback blasts it in the 6 yrd box -> goal. I specifically instructed my FB'S to hold position and cross less, but still no effect. If it's not the FB's, then it's somebody else running wide and then delivers a cross which results in a goal. My AMC has 5-6 clear possibilities/game to deliver a killer (through ball) to the striker/s but he NEVER DOES IT (like a normal person). Instead, he justs passes it out wide and you can guess what happens next. For the love of GOD, I forgot how a clean goal scored from a through ball looks like in FM since I use FM16. Almost every goal is scored / conceded from a cross (direct or after a rebound) . I know how marketing works, thats my playground also and I realise that some problems are better to "not be aknowledged" sometimes. If you cant fix it, please be straight and say it. At least we know what to expect. But please, dont make it sound like it's not a general issue, because it is. Even if it's a bug which is not experienced by 100% of the players, it's still experienced by enough to make you deal with it, or make a clear statement. I hope you take my post constructivly since I am only trying to help here. I'm way past raging ... after 99999 goals scored from crosses I dont ask for.

Now, here is my FM 15 goal analysis using my own developted tactic (4-2-3-1 with emphasis on the AMC) which I tried to replicate in FM16 (screen above). Look at the difference in ME interpretation.

Mate its just the way it is, everyone has given the same feedback lets hope it gets fixed in FM17 but yeah I feel I wasted £20^^ thank god I got it a lot cheaper

I am playing FM15 with transfers update

I would suggest everyone to buy the game after the last patch going forward you save money and your health too

[grade]

I think the more realistic the ME gets the less likely it will be that players will do exactly what you instruct them to do all of the time as even irl it's probably quite uncommon for managers to have that level of influence once a match has started, I always felt that was a major failing of the slider based tactical interface.

That my friend is an two edge sword. This is simulation, no doubt about that, that strives for realism, but there are things that no matter how much you program, you can't simply recreate in code. It will always have degree of robotic movements in it.

Yes I'm all forward to make the ME realistic and aslwell for other areas of the game, but please don't forget that in the end this is computer game use for entertainment purposes. If you loose that, that will be the end of FM as we know it. There needs to be part of the game that is focused on unrealistic stuff. Sure Messi will not sign for any other club in his life, it is realistic. however we don't know what the future holds for any of us, including Messi. But in FM i like the possibility to sign Messi or any other player at his prime, if my club has rise to that reputation. It needs this degree of unrealism inside the game, but as well on other areas of the game.

The game needs a balance of the two. Why do you think for me FM07 is the best game SI has ever done? Sure the ME, is less evolve then FM16. Sure it has more robotic movement of players following tactical instructions, then later games. Sure it has for many here consider the dreadful, sliders. Sure, it has a lot less features. Sure, it doesn't have prozone. Sure, it is less dynamic in many things. True on many, many accounts. But I prefer FM07 then later versions, because it has the right balance between Fun and entertainment with realism. The game is a lot of fun to play and extremelly addictive, what these latest games for me has lot babysitting and whinning and things the fustrates me, that takes that feel of entertainment and fun for me.

That is what these game should strive for. Adding features, not for the sake of adding them, but improve the game and maintining that balance between entertainment and realism. I know a lot of you don't agree with me, but for sometime I feel this way. I feel FM has the potential to be much more then it is and it is what we all here to do, improve the game. To bad some people are so focused on their own little boubbles that refuse to hear anything either praise of critics.

[marsh82]

those that are complaining about wingbacks/crossing/scoring/ratings... i'd be interested to see your tactics...

[Defensive]

I am playing FM15 with transfers update

lol, FM 15 had so much more issues as stated often in this thread. Ping Pong with 50 shots and 5-3 scores all over the place. You are kidding yourself.:-)

[Valkyrie88]

those that are complaining about wingbacks/crossing/scoring/ratings... i'd be interested to see your tactics...

You are right, its our tactic's fault. You are absoluty right. 100000 people suddenly all make the same mistake in our tactics that results in a huge ammount of perfect crosses and thats why my AMC/MC's dont try through balls anymore in crystal clear situations but instead they pass it out wide (so the crosses can fly away). Again, it's only natural that we all who have this problem make the same mistake. Coindicence of the milenium.

[xantheose]

Not sure where to place this but how do I delete FM16 preferences? Say I uninstall the game, then I reinstall it and when I enter the game, it shows me the same profile I used before uninstalling, with the same preferences (Window Mode, Currency Use etc). I deleted the SI folder in My Documents aswell.

[FrazT]

Not sure where to place this but how do I delete FM16 preferences? Say I uninstall the game, then I reinstall it and when I enter the game, it shows me the same profile I used before uninstalling, with the same preferences (Window Mode, Currency Use etc). I deleted the SI folder in My Documents aswell.

Instructions in the FM 16 FAQ thread

[xantheose]

Is it a bug to get offered a new contract on the 5th of December in your first season?

You have to see if it extends your contract or the Board considers modifying your Expectations based on how well you do in the league.

Say, you pick a relegation threatened team and you tell the board at the start of the season that the Expectations should be to Avoid Relegation. In December you are on 4th so therefore Board might ask if you wanna reconsider those terms.

[themadsheep2001]

That my friend is an two edge sword. This is simulation, no doubt about that, that strives for realism, but there are things that no matter how much you program, you can't simply recreate in code. It will always have degree of robotic movements in it.

Yes I'm all forward to make the ME realistic and aslwell for other areas of the game, but please don't forget that in the end this is computer game use for entertainment purposes. If you loose that, that will be the end of FM as we know it. There needs to be part of the game that is focused on unrealistic stuff. Sure Messi will not sign for any other club in his life, it is realistic. however we don't know what the future holds for any of us, including Messi. But in FM i like the possibility to sign Messi or any other player at his prime, if my club has rise to that reputation. It needs this degree of unrealism inside the game, but as well on other areas of the game.

The game needs a balance of the two. Why do you think for me FM07 is the best game SI has ever done? Sure the ME, is less evolve then FM16. Sure it has more robotic movement of players following tactical instructions, then later games. Sure it has for many here consider the dreadful, sliders. Sure, it has a lot less features. Sure, it doesn't have prozone. Sure, it is less dynamic in many things. True on many, many accounts. But I prefer FM07 then later versions, because it has the right balance between Fun and entertainment with realism. The game is a lot of fun to play and extremelly addictive, what these latest games for me has lot babysitting and whinning and things the fustrates me, that takes that feel of entertainment and fun for me.

That is what these game should strive for. Adding features, not for the sake of adding them, but improve the game and maintining that balance between entertainment and realism. I know a lot of you don't agree with me, but for sometime I feel this way. I feel FM has the potential to be much more then it is and it is what we all here to do, improve the game. To bad some people are so focused on their own little boubbles that refuse to hear anything either praise of critics.

Is it the game we should strive for? What about people who didn't like FM07?

What you might want isnt necessarily what they might have in mind. People forget that the devs will have, and are allowed to have, a vision of the game they want to make.

[ravenation]

How i the match engine and graphics working? I have an impression there are more technical skill goals in the premier league, than you see in the lower divisions? Cna that affect the amount of crosses? When i play in th top league the crossing issue seems not that big, but as soon you play the low league you experience the flat cross to far post maybe four times in one game. Are the match engine affected by amount of graphical sekences pr. League or is it same for all leagues?

I'm fairly sure FM12 only had rudimentary collision detection which meant quick players could literally run through strong players. Adding something as complex as collision detection, or even improving it makes a huge amount of difference how the entire ME works. Am honestly surprised that someone can play that and compare it to the FM15 or 16 ME and say it's better. Might be more fun in regards to how you play the game, but better I think would be a strong way of expressing it.

[marsh82]

You are right, its our tactic's fault. You are absoluty right. 100000 people suddenly all make the same mistake in our tactics that results in a huge ammount of perfect crosses and thats why my AMC/MC's dont try through balls anymore in crystal clear situations but instead they pass it out wide (so the crosses can fly away). Again, it's only natural that we all who have this problem make the same mistake. Coindicence of the milenium.

WHERE in my sentence did I say it is users tactics fault? I am merely interested to see what tactics people are using. Are they using attacking wingers and wing backs? If so, perhaps that's why they scoring and conceding crosses.

I think some people here really need to take a long, hard look at themselves and make a few attitude adjustments.

[Guest]

You are right, its our tactic's fault. You are absoluty right. 100000 people suddenly all make the same mistake in our tactics that results in a huge ammount of perfect crosses and thats why my AMC/MC's dont try through balls anymore in crystal clear situations but instead they pass it out wide (so the crosses can fly away). Again, it's only natural that we all who have this problem make the same mistake. Coindicence of the milenium.

If you're not willing to consider investigating other tactical options you're doomed to continued frustration.

Would we have all preferred it if SI had been able to code a solution to the problem? Heck, yes.

In light of the fact that SI are unable to do that & that not everyone is having issues with crossing does it suggest that a tactical solution exists? Yes it does.

Now that you know the above two statements to be the case what is the obvious option should you want to continue playing FM16 & increase the chance of enjoying the experience?

[grade]

Is it the game we should strive for? What about people who didn't like FM07?

What you might want isnt necessarily what they might have in mind. People forget that the devs will have, and are allowed to have, a vision of the game they want to make.

That is my point of view and I'm not trying to force it one anyone.

It is okay for people to disagree with my point of view.

As for the Devs, of course I know they have a vision for that game and that might clash with my views of the game. I'm fine with that. Since I'm not a dev, I have no say what should or shouldn't be in game. My alternative is to share my point of view, where I stand, what for me would improve the quality of the game. Do you have problem with that? It sounds like you have.

[marsh82]

You are right, its our tactic's fault. You are absoluty right. 100000 people suddenly all make the same mistake in our tactics that results in a huge ammount of perfect crosses and thats why my AMC/MC's dont try through balls anymore in crystal clear situations but instead they pass it out wide (so the crosses can fly away). Again, it's only natural that we all who have this problem make the same mistake. Coindicence of the milenium.

Perhaps your teams reputation is so strong that opposing teams drop deep and defend compact, ergo rendering a through ball from you AM/CM a risky proposal? Maybe the best option in that players "mind" is to pass laterally? Maybe there is space on the wings for you to attack because of the aforementioned deep and compact block? In those circumstances, where else would you have a midfielder pass? Perhaps your CM/AM's have less creativity? Perhaps they have been given roles where they wont look for through passes? Perhaps you are using a single striker against 3 defenders? Perhaps you are attacking with wing backs and wingers, leaving 2 central defenders back and a wide open space behind your wing backs, ready for the opposition to exploit with a diagonal ball on the break, causing one of your CDs to break wide to cover/close down, possibly leaving a 2v1 situation on the edge of your box ready for a cross to exploit?

Sure the M.E is imbalanced but there could be literally 100's of variables that would, indeed, make it your tactics fault.

[Guest]

That is my point of view and I'm not trying to force it one anyone.

It is okay for people to disagree with my point of view.

As for the Devs, of course I know they have a vision for that game and that might clash with my views of the game. I'm fine with that. Since I'm not a dev, I have no say what should or shouldn't be in game. My alternative is to share my point of view, where I stand, what for me would improve the quality of the game. Do you have problem with that? It sounds like you have.

I liked your choice of FM07, that is also one on my personal favourites as like you I felt at that time the balance was close to perfection & it is easily up there with 01/02 in terms of hours spent.

[marsh82]

Spent SOOOO many hours on FM07. Came close to causing a cliched FM/Girlfriend break up!

[Valkyrie88]

If you're not willing to consider investigating other tactical options you're doomed to continued frustration.

Would we have all preferred it if SI had been able to code a solution to the problem? Heck, yes.

In light of the fact that SI are unable to do that & that not everyone is having issues with crossing does it suggest that a tactical solution exists? Yes it does.

Now that you know the above two statements to be the case what is the obvious option should you want to continue playing FM16 & increase the chance of enjoying the experience?

"Would we have all preferred it if SI had been able to code a solution to the problem? Heck, yes." <<--- We pay for the game. We pay to play the game, not to beta-test it after the last patch has come out. Helping in finding out bugs yes, I agree with you, but after a certain bug, especially one in ME has been aknowledged, why should I not expect SI to do the rest ? In what world are you living ? I've been patient regarding this matter for months now. Should I be patient until FM17 comes out ? Yes, because I dont have a choice.

"In light of the fact that SI are unable to do that & that not everyone is having issues with crossing does it suggest that a tactical solution exists? Yes it does." Now really ... are you being serious ? People using all sorts of tactics have came across this issue so the're no specific pattern following the bug. I helped with PKM's, thats best I can do. Showing you guys tactics it's not worth the trouble because I encounter this problem in every tactic I use. If you read my post above, I specifically told you that the players are always looking for crossing options even when they have way better solutions in front of them. They do that even when i INSTRUCT THEM NOT TO. And even if you are somehow right, you are still wrong. If there's a certain tactic component that is causing this, it's still a problem because it happens even if you dont as for it.

"Now that you know the above two statements to be the case what is the obvious option should you want to continue playing FM16 & increase the chance of enjoying the experience?" Enjoying the experience of FM16 is way past me. I loved the game when it came out at a first glance, mainly because of pro-zone and players/ball new physics. All was good until I saw that strangesness of crossings. Let me tell you one last time: In those screenshots from FM16 that i posted, I specifically asked all my wide players to CROSS LESS OFTEN and FB's had instruction to HOLD POSITION. I did that because I want to clear the possibility of being a tactical issue. If you still believe that my tactics are causing this, then it's no point talking about it.

[Valkyrie88]

Perhaps your teams reputation is so strong that opposing teams drop deep and defend compact, ergo rendering a through ball from you AM/CM a risky proposal? Maybe the best option in that players "mind" is to pass laterally? Maybe there is space on the wings for you to attack because of the aforementioned deep and compact block? In those circumstances, where else would you have a midfielder pass? Perhaps your CM/AM's have less creativity? Perhaps they have been given roles where they wont look for through passes? Perhaps you are using a single striker against 3 defenders? Perhaps you are attacking with wing backs and wingers, leaving 2 central defenders back and a wide open space behind your wing backs, ready for the opposition to exploit with a diagonal ball on the break, causing one of your CDs to break wide to cover/close down, possibly leaving a 2v1 situation on the edge of your box ready for a cross to exploit?

Sure the M.E is imbalanced but there could be literally 100's of variables that would, indeed, make it your tactics fault.

How many goals have you scored from through balls ? I mean, really through balls, not cross/through balls/rebounds. I ask you this because I can count'em on my hand's fingers. I am not a newbie to FM, been playing this game for a long time and never did I need someone else's tactics to make my game work exactly how I want it.

[Guest]

Valkyrie88, I strongly suggest heading over to the tactics forum & doing so with an open mind.

SI are aware of the various issues within the ME but under the constraints of the current ME code they are unable to address the specific issues you & others are encountering with crossing, continuing to post about accepted issues in here isn't going to change that fact so the next step is to investigate other tactical options that help mitigate against those ME issues, tactical solutions do exist.

[marsh82]

How many goals have you scored from through balls ? I mean, really through balls, not cross/through balls/rebounds. I ask you this because I can count'em on my hand's fingers. I am not a newbie to FM, been playing this game for a long time and never did I need someone else's tactics to make my game work exactly how I want it.

I score from a lot of diagonal and through balls. My assist-types are genuinely equally spread. At present im set up on the 5-3-2 formation that a lot of the "nearby" teams use, 3 x CDs, a pair of WBs, 3 x CMS, a Shadow Striker and a Deep Lying Forward. My midfield is staggered diagonally - Def-Sup-Att. One wing back is defensive, one attacking.

The point of highlighting this is that at each stage of the build up, even against a deep 4-4-1-1 block, each player in the middle (CD's and CM's) will have 2 nearby diagonal passes and one vertical (plus more cross field passes) and will have movement ahead of them. This should/does mean opponents are pulled out of position centrally, allowing a through pass.

The same pulling out of position is easily achieved using wingers and wing backs, the full back marks your winger who drifts inside, leaving acres of space for an onrushing wing back to have time to pick a cross. If you have a striker and the opposite winger running to far post, you're 2v2 at back post for a header/volley.

Yes, the GK's should claim more crosses and yes, the game may be skewed to overpowered crossing/defending/finishing but there are causes and solutions to it.

But yes, this is a feedback thread not a tactics thread, apologies Barside.

[xantheose]

Anyone's having issues with injuries? Every pre-season I have 4-5 long term injured players...

[Guest]

It'll down to your management of pre-season or have too many players susceptible to injury.

At a guess are you using high intensity fitness training?