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Neil Brock

Football Manager 2016 16.3.0 Feedback Thread

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Was changing skins about on the game to make use of the fix mentioned previously to get the auto-continue timer back in place and went back onto the FM Touch skin. I find the cursor is incredibly easy to lose on the white background of boxes if you're not following the cursor or you look away and look back. The grey outline doesn't add enough contrast for my eyes the main culprit is the home screen with the different white box segments for player stats, board confidence, the table and the competitions screen. A lot of the other screens either have the functionality that on mouseover the object you're on has a light grey background, or like on the news segment the main content region has a grey segment within it making it easy to find the mouse still. Could probably do with the cursor border pixel just being a bit darker.

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Strange you should say that Dave, I've just got that message myself in 2018 & there are six defenders on the list, all DCs. Only two can even play fullback and they are Toby Alderweireld & Emre Can.

EDIT

I did think it might be linked to reputation so I've had a flick through some of the top teams and TBH the only fullback that I thought was unlucky not to make the list was Marcelo.

I do wonder whether it's an intermittent fault. I am now into my third save of FM16. On the other two I didn't really notice the full back issue. On 16.3 I am being decimated by the opposition scoring from crosses and most of my goals are coming from full back crosses. My tactics haven't changed either and I have noticed my defence is perfectly positioned. They just get caught out by crosses, mainly because the keeper is rooted to the line.

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Hi FM 16 testing team, I've discovered couple issues after updating to 16.3. Been using a macbook air.

1. It'll always crash and give a crash log after exiting the game (doesn't really affect the gaming experience).

2. After loading an existing save without saving current session, it'll at times beachball (forever loading) for up to 1 minute or even more. This did not happen in 16.2.

Any chance of coming up with a patch that could improve game speed and resolve these beachballs?

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I have a question to all who had issues with crossing : do you use an edited DB ?

I certainly do as I believe the majority of player stats are wrong. But my first two saves I had no problems with the crossing issue. It's only my new save I've started with 16.3 that I am now experiencing it. I'm only into a few matches but Billy Jones & Azpilicueta are leading the assist stats averaging an assist a game, closely followed by Allan Nyom at Watford who is close to an assist a game.

The fact that it's happening across the board suggests that it isn't my tactics, although I've noticed that playing a really deep line does help with the issue, but then it screws up the way I want to attack.

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Hi FM 16 testing team, I've discovered couple issues after updating to 16.3. Been using a macbook air.

1. It'll always crash and give a crash log after exiting the game (doesn't really affect the gaming experience).

2. After loading an existing save without saving current session, it'll at times beachball (forever loading) for up to 1 minute or even more. This did not happen in 16.2.

Any chance of coming up with a patch that could improve game speed and resolve these beachballs?

Crashes and technical issues for Macs here, please: http://community.sigames.com/forumdisplay.php/521-Crashes-Launch-and-Technical-Issues-on-Mac-or-Linux

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I'm in season 2021-22, and I've just got the news item about the 35 man shortlist for the Ballon D'or.

David Alaba is the only fullback among them. I'm delighted I always seem to have a different game than everyone else. :p

To be fair, isn't Ballon D'or massively reputation weighted, rather than actual performance? Other league-based rewards are probably more on the side of average rating.

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To be fair, isn't Ballon D'or massively reputation weighted, rather than actual performance? Other league-based rewards are probably more on the side of average rating.

Yeah, it's a popularity contest that s hard to break up.

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In full mode(you play Touch, right?), it is often an option, I've had the option often to say, "X player is in the form of his life, I can't drop him so you need to wait for your shot".

Yep I play Touch. Totally agree with you, that's the sort of response I think would be a great addition. If the player is still unhappy then fine that's down to him but at least you have been honest with him and done what you can. I'm not looking for a "happy" button where your response will definitely clear the air but at least a handful of responses that will actually be realistic to the teams current situation.

I'm sure HUNT3R is right I think I have seen something along the lines of "I can't risk upsetting our good form" but I can't remember if that was a response in 16 or 15 so it's very rare whatever version it was in.

All I have seen are the likes of :

"I'll give you a chance but expect you to work hard to stay there"

"Last time I gave you a chance you didn't perform"

"You aren't in my plans for this season but you will be getting regular football next season" - (What response is that to a seasoned pro?!?!)

"I'll let you go on loan asap"

"I'll let you go at the end of the season"

"I'll find a new Club for you as soon as I can".

Not quite worded correctly but you get the gist. The only one that is usable is the first one and that's only buying you a bit of time and isn't really an honest answer.

I mean I have conceded 5 goals in 10 games so how do I explain that to James Tomkins who is moaning - not talking into account that Tomkins is probably the last player who would moan anyway! - Plus Andy Carroll just coming back from injury is moaning so there should be a response there with regard to bringing him back slowly to avoid further injury. If my other strikers are performing Carroll getting injured is a blessing because he won't be moaning!! Common sense should be added to a players list of hidden attributes.

As I say I understand rotating but if I say drop Sakho, Reid and Payet for my unhappy bunch of Tomkins, Carroll and Antonio and we lose that game I know which three have more right to moan!!!

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Yep I play Touch. Totally agree with you, that's the sort of response I think would be a great addition. If the player is still unhappy then fine that's down to him but at least you have been honest with him and done what you can. I'm not looking for a "happy" button where your response will definitely clear the air but at least a handful of responses that will actually be realistic to the teams current situation.

I'm sure HUNT3R is right I think I have seen something along the lines of "I can't risk upsetting our good form" but I can't remember if that was a response in 16 or 15 so it's very rare whatever version it was in.

All I have seen are the likes of :

"I'll give you a chance but expect you to work hard to stay there"

"Last time I gave you a chance you didn't perform"

"You aren't in my plans for this season but you will be getting regular football next season" - (What response is that to a seasoned pro?!?!)

"I'll let you go on loan asap"

"I'll let you go at the end of the season"

"I'll find a new Club for you as soon as I can".

Not quite worded correctly but you get the gist. The only one that is usable is the first one and that's only buying you a bit of time and isn't really an honest answer.

I mean I have conceded 5 goals in 10 games so how do I explain that to James Tomkins who is moaning - not talking into account that Tomkins is probably the last player who would moan anyway! - Plus Andy Carroll just coming back from injury is moaning so there should be a response there with regard to bringing him back slowly to avoid further injury. If my other strikers are performing Carroll getting injured is a blessing because he won't be moaning!! Common sense should be added to a players list of hidden attributes.

As I say I understand rotating but if I say drop Sakho, Reid and Payet for my unhappy bunch of Tomkins, Carroll and Antonio and we lose that game I know which three have more right to moan!!!

I can understand not wanting to give too many options because it's the touch version but yeah would be good if some choices were rotated in and out based on situation (player's age, whether he actually was in bad form when you left him out etc.)

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don't know how many people still play international football but i have a huge problem with it, tactical familiarity to be precise.

if i take over a nation at the beginning, in the middle of the euro qualification cycle, my tactical familiarity is about 5 to 10 per cent. whatever tactic i pick it is the same. i understand it isn't a bug but it is intended, however, taht is quie harsh SI. i mean, these players have played some shape before and they should be able to be at least around 40 per cent for shape they have been using previously.

i believe it is also affected by new call ups. they are treatet, i guess, like new signings for club bringing down team cohesion and tactical familiarity. however, if you have three players injured you HAVE to call up three new players and even if you call up players with numerous caps, it still brings down the familiarity like they have never played football. they are best of the best in some nation and that shouldn't be so difficult for them, at least from tactical point of view. if they are difficult characters, ok, bring down the cohesion...

mechanics that work for clubs don't work at all for international sides and hopefully this will be addressed as international side of football management is really poorly represented in the game.still.

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I haven't done international management for a version or two, but I wonder if it is as intended. I don't think there is much tactical familiarity in these games. The players get together a day or three before they start playing matches, so there isn't much time to really get familiar with too much. From what I remember though, the friendlies before a big tournament, when the squad trains together will see you able to get the familiarity up quite a lot.

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Seems to me like it's working as intended. I wouldn't expect familiarity to be anywhere near full at any stage as an international manager, as you simply don't get enough time with the players. I didn't notice any problem with it in the 40-odd years I spent in International Management on FM16.

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I imagine people place too much importance on TF when managing at the higher levels, including internationals.

Player quality will make up for a lack of team cohesion & of course it is a negative that is often raised irl.

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What about when I remove my tin-foil hat? :D

No, don't. Think of Elvis.

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It's my first season in the Premier League in FM16 and a couple of games in, I'm already seeing what the better players are capable of. Playing on the counter, my DM unleashed a 50 yard through ball between their DCL and DL. My striker was making an arcing run from the DCR's side to pick it up. Was the best pass I've seen on FM.

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One of my players just complained about a lack of playtime in the first squad. 4 games in the competition so far (first season), 4 champions league games played. He played 1 of those 4 competition games and all 4 CL games, and now he's complaining about not playing enough

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One of my players just complained about a lack of playtime in the first squad. 4 games in the competition so far (first season), 4 champions league games played. He played 1 of those 4 competition games and all 4 CL games, and now he's complaining about not playing enough, what the actual fuk

Reading between the lines, he hasn't started a single league game when he expects to start most/all of them.

If he is (or thinks he should be) a key player or first team player, of course he would complain, or at least have a conversation with the manager about why this is.

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One of my players just complained about a lack of playtime in the first squad. 4 games in the competition so far (first season), 4 champions league games played. He played 1 of those 4 competition games and all 4 CL games, and now he's complaining about not playing enough

I've edited out the swearing. You can get your point across without it as it's a family forum.

So he's played 5 out of 8. Has he started all 5? Is this a Key Player?

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One of my players just complained about a lack of playtime in the first squad. 4 games in the competition so far (first season), 4 champions league games played. He played 1 of those 4 competition games and all 4 CL games, and now he's complaining about not playing enough

I believe league games count only for this complaint, and it carries on from the previous season too.

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One of my players just complained about a lack of playtime in the first squad. 4 games in the competition so far (first season), 4 champions league games played. He played 1 of those 4 competition games and all 4 CL games, and now he's complaining about not playing enough
I've edited out the swearing. You can get your point across without it as it's a family forum.

So he's played 5 out of 8. Has he started all 5? Is this a Key Player?

He is a first-team player. He started out in 5 out of 8 games, of which 4 were CL games. Apologies for the swearing.
Reading between the lines, he hasn't started a single league game when he expects to start most/all of them.

If he is (or thinks he should be) a key player or first team player, of course he would complain, or at least have a conversation with the manager about why this is.

I believe league games count only for this complaint, and it carries on from the previous season too.

I figured as much, but still find it strange, especially since CL games are generally more prestigious, and we're only 4 games in the first season. I mean he played 5 out of 8 games, of which 4 were very important..

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Guys for start sorry for my english, check this and give ur opinions, SI GAMES solution is "we hope to include a fix in a future version" and we pay for FM16 and in my opinión is very importat bug, for more details: http://community.sigames.com/showthread.php/445789-Match-preparation-Tactics-familiarity-bug?p=10751736#post10751736

- 16.3 game, new carrer, databease 16.0.1 choice only spain, liga adelante (u can choice what u want is for faster), make new profile, in like menú dont put nothing in formations (but if u want put, is same) choice Albacete team from liga adelante, in manager style dont care u can put what u want.

- Go tactics in first slot u choice 4-1-4-1 DM, standard, flexible and ok,u can see formation bar is FULL, now in second slot choice 4-1-2-3 DM Wide, u can see formation bar is almost empy, now down AMR and AML too MR and ML, now up again u can see 4-1-2-3 DM Wide formation bar goes up. Unusual not? its not all.

- Now delete 4-1-4-1 DM first slot formation, go HOME menú, return to tactics and OMG 4-1-2-3 DM Wide is FULL in formation bar, nice i CHEAT familiarity, u think is all?

- Now add in second slot 4-1-4-1 DM PUFFFFF formation bar drops too much.

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If it's only 4 games into the league season, the CL qualifiers (not group/knock-outs) are not at all prestigious. What team are you/what player?

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He is a first-team player. He started out in 5 out of 8 games, of which 4 were CL games.

That's 62.5% of the games and as a first team player, he'd expect to start more games, tbh.

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Okay, as you’re aware the staff here at SI read the forums so clearly we’re aware that some users are experiencing some issues with the way that crosses are defended. From the numbers we’ve had feeding back to us this only seems to affect a relatively small number players and largely depends on those player's tactics. Saying that, we did take a long, hard look at it and ultimately decided that given potential knock-ons and the major impact it would have had on user’s tactics that it wasn’t something we could tweak without unbalancing the match engine and worsening the user’s playing experience.

As anyone who’s played FM for a while knows, we’re constantly striving to make the match engine a 100 per cent perfect simulation of real football. While we’re still some way away from achieving this goal, we do feel that we’re getting closer and closer and this progress is helped enormously by the constructive feedback that we get here on the forums. We’re happy with the match engine which is included in version 16.3.0 and we’ve only been able to get up to this point thanks to everyone who has been involved in the game’s development, be it SI staff members, beta testers or those of you posting here on the forums.

Having spoken at length about this with the match team, there is some good news to report in that the work the team have done in trying to address this issue long-term has led to some other major improvements which, once they’re fully implemented, will make any future versions of the match engine better for everyone.

All I would add to that is that you should give the new update a thorough play-through and let us know what you think when you’ve had a chance to put it through its paces. That's what this thread is here for.

Many thanks.

Thanks for this post, and I do have a lot of sympathy for you, but there is one thing that really irritates me about the way SI does things. I accept that the particular issue with crossing is not an easy one to solve without causing further problems, and that it will take considerable additional time and effort for you to resolve it. But, assuming you do manage to get it "fixed" in the end, based on SI's previous behaviour, us, the players, aren't going to be able to get this fix unless we shell out another £35, as the "future versions of the match engine" you talk about are going to be in FM17 instead of being patched into '16, as the patch cycle for the latter has finished.

We've paid for you're product. It has a flaw that you are aware of. And you're going to ask us to pay again to have that flaw fixed.

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If it's only 4 games into the league season, the CL qualifiers (not group/knock-outs) are not at all prestigious. What team are you/what player?
That's 62.5% of the games and as a first team player, he'd expect to start more games, tbh.

Ajax, Kenny Tete (right back)

I'd agree with you if we were 15-20 games in of course, but after 8 games already? Me personally I find that a bit odd.

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Ajax, Kenny Tete (right back)

I'd agree with you if we were 15-20 games in of course, but after 8 games already? Me personally I find that a bit odd.

Are you in a transfer window still? That may play a part.

In any case, he's not playing enough and he's asked you what your plans are. If you intend playing him more, just tell him that.

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Are you in a transfer window still? That may play a part.

In any case, he's not playing enough and he's asked you what your plans are. If you intend playing him more, just tell him that.

Nope, window's already closed.

I told him that naturally, he is my first-choice right back, I was just sparing him for important games since Ajax is always on a full schedule.

It just raised my eyebrows so I figured I'd mention it here to discuss it.

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Ajax, Kenny Tete (right back)

I'd agree with you if we were 15-20 games in of course, but after 8 games already? Me personally I find that a bit odd.

In real life, if you a talented youngster like Tete was dropped outright for 3 out of the first 4 league games, only playing the CL qualifiers, I would definitely expect him to have a word with the manager about it. If he demanded a transfer instantly or was very difficult to convince (depending on how the conversation goes) then that may be excessive, but not if the conversation went well.

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Thanks for this post, and I do have a lot of sympathy for you, but there is one thing that really irritates me about the way SI does things. I accept that the particular issue with crossing is not an easy one to solve without causing further problems, and that it will take considerable additional time and effort for you to resolve it. But, assuming you do manage to get it "fixed" in the end, based on SI's previous behaviour, us, the players, aren't going to be able to get this fix unless we shell out another £35, as the "future versions of the match engine" you talk about are going to be in FM17 instead of being patched into '16, as the patch cycle for the latter has finished.

We've paid for you're product. It has a flaw that you are aware of. And you're going to ask us to pay again to have that flaw fixed.

That's true. Some of us, who cannot or don't want to play the game, have to wait at least 7 months to play. Probably it will be much more than 7 months, basing on the previous versions history, the first playable release will be available at Christmas.

Why there is an unchangeable rule of only 3 patches per one release? I think that in some special case like this, the creation of next patch should be considered. The customers will surely appreciate much such a move. Now they may feel a little bit ignored.

And please don't say that we are the minority because the first results of the poll showed something different. It is also unfair that because the thread was becoming a new feedback, the poll has also been closed.

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That's true. Some of us, who cannot or don't want to play the game, have to wait at least 7 months to play. Probably it will be much more than 7 months, basing on the previous versions history, the first playable release will be available at Christmas.

Why there is an unchangeable rule of only 3 patches per one release? I think that in some special case like this, the creation of next patch should be considered. The customers will surely appreciate much such a move. Now they may feel a little bit ignored.

And please don't say that we are the minority because the first results of the poll showed something different. It is also unfair that because the thread was becoming a new feedback, the poll has also been closed.

More customers would be annoyed if FM17 was delayed, to provide another patch for FM16. I imagine in the next month or so, the development of FM17 will become fully consuming. It's usually around the start of the summer holidays (in the school/college/uni sense) that SI/Sega begin hiring additional testers down at their offices in London for the next game. Although this is based on personal experience from almost 10 years back now, but I can't imagine the number of testers needed for an FM game diminishing.

There is no set in stone rule, but a new patch wouldn't be released in the first place if that patch itself broke the game. This isn't any more a special case than the special cases being mentioned last year, or the year before etc etc. This same thing happens time and time again, a small minority feel aggrieved about something - bloat the general discussion board and feedback thread with it demanding something is done. They usually go quiet around a month later and then everyone carries on quite happily.

The consistency to SI's approach is, if anything, one of the better things to be lauded. I'm sure I've seen mention of a demo version of the game floating about and its updated just as the rest of the game is, so if you try that and dislike the game you know to give it a wide-berth that year.

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Thanks for this post, and I do have a lot of sympathy for you, but there is one thing that really irritates me about the way SI does things. I accept that the particular issue with crossing is not an easy one to solve without causing further problems, and that it will take considerable additional time and effort for you to resolve it. But, assuming you do manage to get it "fixed" in the end, based on SI's previous behaviour, us, the players, aren't going to be able to get this fix unless we shell out another £35, as the "future versions of the match engine" you talk about are going to be in FM17 instead of being patched into '16, as the patch cycle for the latter has finished.

We've paid for you're product. It has a flaw that you are aware of. And you're going to ask us to pay again to have that flaw fixed.

They're not asking you to do anything. You have a choice to buy or not buy.

That's true. Some of us, who cannot or don't want to play the game, have to wait at least 7 months to play. Probably it will be much more than 7 months, basing on the previous versions history, the first playable release will be available at Christmas.

Why there is an unchangeable rule of only 3 patches per one release? I think that in some special case like this, the creation of next patch should be considered. The customers will surely appreciate much such a move. Now they may feel a little bit ignored.

And please don't say that we are the minority because the first results of the poll showed something different. It is also unfair that because the thread was becoming a new feedback, the poll has also been closed.

You completely ruin any argument you have by saying that "the first playable release will be available at Christmas". It's a terrible and factually incorrect argument that makes anyone that makes it look silly. FM has never been unplayable. It's been on all different points of the scale of being enjoyable, which is probably a more accurate metric to use.

The people that are complaining about the crossing issues seem to be looking at any fix for it in a very black and white manner. They've been pretty up front about things so far, in that they tried to fix it, but couldn't to the standard they were happy with. People seem raging that there will be no 16.4, but who is to say that they would be able to fix it for a 16.4? They've clearly tried pretty hard already, so when do you want them to try until? Rhetorical question, as I know what the seething shouted answer would be, but at the end of the day they'll undoubtedly be under pressure to deliver FM17/18/19 in a set window. They have to stop at some point, otherwise they'd be in danger of not delivering the new product. Given that the game is eminently playable - and has been since release - I can see why they'd hold their hands up and move on, especially given that it's hardly a universal issue.

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More customers would be annoyed if FM17 was delayed, to provide another patch for FM16. I imagine in the next month or so, the development of FM17 will become fully consuming. It's usually around the start of the summer holidays (in the school/college/uni sense) that SI/Sega begin hiring additional testers down at their offices in London for the next game. Although this is based on personal experience from almost 10 years back now, but I can't imagine the number of testers needed for an FM game diminishing.

There is no set in stone rule, but a new patch wouldn't be released in the first place if that patch itself broke the game. This isn't any more a special case than the special cases being mentioned last year, or the year before etc etc. This same thing happens time and time again, a small minority feel aggrieved about something - bloat the general discussion board and feedback thread with it demanding something is done. They usually go quiet around a month later and then everyone carries on quite happily.

The consistency to SI's approach is, if anything, one of the better things to be lauded. I'm sure I've seen mention of a demo version of the game floating about and its updated just as the rest of the game is, so if you try that and dislike the game you know to give it a wide-berth that year.

Should also add, while the aim might be to get it for the next release, there is actually no guarantee it will be done by then. It's not like there is a fix ready and it's going to roll out. There is still work to be done.

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Seems to me that people who don't see the crossing isue a minority actually :))

I could say that you're in the minority while you say the majority, but it doesn't really matter does it, outside of point-scoring. SI clearly thought there was something that could be adjusted, they didn't manage to adjust to a level they were happy with, so it hasn't changed. Some people seem affected by it, some don't. That's all. Would it make you feel better if 99% of people were affected and there was a posse being led to SI towers? It is what it is.

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They're not asking you to do anything. You have a choice to buy or not buy.

Not if I want the product I have already paid for to work properly.

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Not if I want the product I have already paid for to work properly.

The product you've already paid for will never work properly going by what it seems your expectations are. You then have the choice on whether to buy the new product that may or may not fix that problem.

It always baffles me, that kind of stance. There seem to be a lot of people that hate the way the game is, but are still acting like they'll be forced to buy the next version. If I hated it half as much as some do, I probably wouldn't buy the next one until I'd made absolutely sure it was worth buying.

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Not if I want the product I have already paid for to work properly.

If you're experiencing crashes or issues where the game is not playing you should be logging those in the bugs/crashes areas though, not the feedback.

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Thanks for this post, and I do have a lot of sympathy for you, but there is one thing that really irritates me about the way SI does things. I accept that the particular issue with crossing is not an easy one to solve without causing further problems, and that it will take considerable additional time and effort for you to resolve it. But, assuming you do manage to get it "fixed" in the end, based on SI's previous behaviour, us, the players, aren't going to be able to get this fix unless we shell out another £35, as the "future versions of the match engine" you talk about are going to be in FM17 instead of being patched into '16, as the patch cycle for the latter has finished.

We've paid for you're product. It has a flaw that you are aware of. And you're going to ask us to pay again to have that flaw fixed.

It has a flaw in so much it doesn't reflect real life football 100% accurately. But given it's real life we're trying to replicate, it's going to be very difficult to ever get to that level - but we're trying.

The match engine for FM16 has reached a level that cannot be improved within the constraints of the fundamental code of FM16. The match engine is incredibly complex in terms of code and every tiny change has huge knock-ons elsewhere. And as we've said, we're happy with the current match engine available within FM16.

From a personal perspective I've played more seasons and matches than ever on this version. I've had a better career game on this version than I've had in years and of course the match engine is part of that.

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I've give up on complaining on the issues in the game and got into a childish fight with a moderator which was wrong of me. I said I wouldn't say another word on this issue but but I did read a great suggestion. How about when they fix the match engine for FM17 they patch FM16 with the new match engine changes? Something like that could only win back fans. FM for me is the only thing I'm guaranteed to buy year in / year out. However, I won't be buying 17 based on my inability to enjoy 16...If 16 gets a patch even if it's October, I'd likely buy the game again.

Saying that the problems are being reviewed and being worked on for future versions is not right, I appreciate that it is a complicated fix and resources must be allocated to the next version at this stage. But after purchasing this game, to hear that it's going to be fixed is brilliant, but to get the fixes I have to buy a new game? What did my investment in this years get me.

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I've give up on complaining on the issues in the game and got into a childish fight with a moderator which was wrong of me. I said I wouldn't say another word on this issue but but I did read a great suggestion. How about when they fix the match engine for FM17 they patch FM16 with the new match engine changes? Something like that could only win back fans. FM for me is the only thing I'm guaranteed to buy year in / year out. However, I won't be buying 17 based on my inability to enjoy 16...If 16 gets a patch even if it's October, I'd likely buy the game again.

Saying that the problems are being reviewed and being worked on for future versions is not right, I appreciate that it is a complicated fix and resources must be allocated to the next version at this stage. But after purchasing this game, to hear that it's going to be fixed is brilliant, but to get the fixes I have to buy a new game? What did my investment in this years get me.

Do you own a car, a cooker? When safety improvements are made to the new designs you don't get them automatically - but why? You bought a year 20xx model so why are you not getting the benefits of the 200xx+1 model?

If you get a patch for FM16 when FM17 comes out, why don't the people still playing FM05, 06, 07, 08, 09, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14 and 15? They paid for a product right, why have they got to pay again for the improvements, bug fixes and refinements being made over time?

Your investment gets you a licence to play the software, as-is, for FM16. That's the agreement you make when you purchase and accept those terms & conditions. The reason why FM16 won't get further patches is because where do you draw the line? Who's money spent on past releases is more important? Are we taking inflation into account? Does my £30 purchase of FM07 weigh more heavily in this debate than your £35 purchase of FM16?

Ultimately this is the model that all businesses follow now, free - good for life upgrades are rarely if ever a thing now. Not to mention, even if they decided to do this and FM17's match engine invariably has a flaw (it will have some element not able to entirely capture real life football as Neil has said, that's sadly the life of game developers they'll never quite be able to fully mimic football) won't you then feel annoyed if the FM17 people are getting FM18's update but you're not?

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The product you've already paid for will never work properly going by what it seems your expectations are. You then have the choice on whether to buy the new product that may or may not fix that problem.

It always baffles me, that kind of stance. There seem to be a lot of people that hate the way the game is, but are still acting like they'll be forced to buy the next version. If I hated it half as much as some do, I probably wouldn't buy the next one until I'd made absolutely sure it was worth buying.

I don't hate the game. I enjoy it (if I hated it, I wouldn't be spending time on here). And I don't expect it to be perfect. But I expect all the major issues to be fixed at some point - after all, I paid for the game. In this case in particular, there is clearly a significant flaw that the devs themselves have admitted, and instead of fixing it, they are washing their hands of it and moving onto next years game. And frankly, that's a **** poor attitude.

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I don't hate the game. I enjoy it (if I hated it, I wouldn't be spending time on here). And I don't expect it to be perfect. But I expect all the major issues to be fixed at some point - after all, I paid for the game. In this case in particular, there is clearly a significant flaw that the devs themselves have admitted, and instead of fixing it, they are washing their hands of it and moving onto next years game. And frankly, that's a **** poor attitude.

This just isn't true and undermines everything we've said in this thread in response to users. Please if you're going to try and make a point, make it factual.

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You've admitted that there is an issue with crossing. It is having a significant impact on many (not all certainly, but a good number clearly from the replies in threads like this). I don't' see how what I said isn't factual.

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You've admitted that there is an issue with crossing. It is having a significant impact on many (not all certainly, but a good number clearly from the replies in threads like this). I don't' see how what I said isn't factual.
...we’re aware that some users are experiencing some issues with the way that crosses are defended. From the numbers we’ve had feeding back to us this only seems to affect a relatively small number players and largely depends on those player's tactics.

I don't see how that's us admitting there is a significant flaw in the game? As said, please keep your comments factual.

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"Do you own a car, a cooker? When safety improvements are made to the new designs you don't get them automatically - but why? You bought a year 20xx model so why are you not getting the benefits of the 200xx+1 model?"

Improvements in technology are different than acknowledged flaws. SI has acknowledged that there is problems which they are investigating, with the view to fixing in FM17.

My 2005 Nissan Almera recently got a callback because of a fault in the airbag. This was after 11 years, they realised there was a manufacturing fault and wanted the car returned to a dealership so they could investigate and correct any issues. Nissan don't call me if they have a breakthrough in new developments and give me the latest update nor would I expect them to.

I do agree with the "where do you stop?" But I would point out in my opinion, there seems to be more people complaining of more issues in this years final product than any other version passed. Usually by the last patch we have some users complaining of some little issues. This year we have people complaining about the issue with crosses, people complaining about AI rotation or my own biggest gripe the FB ratings being overpowered.

It is impossible for SI to please everyone and I've never had issues before, but I'm not playing FM16 and I don't plan on buying FM17. I'm obsessed with this game and it feels like a hole in my life knowing that this could be the last game I play, certainly going to be difficult getting through the summer months.

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